How does someone get the courage to kill themselves?

[HiCrunchy]

Yes this is what I was trying to explain before.

I also think it takes a lot of courage to know when to give up on something that’s isn’t working and sometimes, the thing that isn’t working is life.

[HiCrunchy]

You're flip-flopping again, Crunch.

You went from saying all lives are meaningless distractions to saying you won't be calling helplines anymore because they're better off helping those who have a will to live.

It's obvious you think others lives hold more weight than your own. Therefore when you said people are 99% the same you did not count yourself in there- did you? And if you had, wouldn't we be talking people out of suicide a lot more often? The things you could accomplish if you applied that same drive and argumentative spirit you have for this thread..

 

You seem to want to argue the human condition, which really just says that no matter what beliefs, what experiences, or what actions you take- life is bad.

 

..You are not weak.

But there is weakness in giving up on life and trying to pass it off as inevitable.

 

It apologize if I am not conveying myself in a manner that is clear. The last few days have been a bit difficult so my mind has been else where. But my opion on this matter stands.

 

There are people who call suicide hotlines do for the most part want to live because if they thought their situation was truly hopeless they wouldn't bother (or they have tried the hotlines and realized communicating with these people is not worth the effort). There are many people who do want to die, and see the hotline as a last stitch effort. Basically my point is, people who call, believe they can be convinced that their choice isn't the right on at some level, want to live.

This is the very reason I don't consider myself suicidal.

 

As for humans, I think most life is not worth living for the most part (that goes for all people, but of course the higher the extent of your suffering, the more I'd encourage you to release yourself from suffering in the way you see fit). We are all equally living a pointless existence with so much suffering. And our fear of death out weighs more than it is our drive to live life. Because living life is suffering but death is more unknown. When people commit suicide, they determine facing the unknown which is scary for most people (as humans are creatures of comfort). Think of it like leaving a relationship and being single after being with the same partner for many years without a replacement. But for some people that is the right choice.

 

Life is bad because we're human. Life is bad because our species has a different social awareness and our instinct includes a moral compass.

But WHY is that so bad? And does this not relate to you having to revisit the same lessons and having the same problems over and over?

You're seeing the same issues in your life and others because you're not (and they're not) doing anything different to change it. I imagine that would make life pretty mundane.

 

Yes, this is all true. Existence of humanity is the problem. Our awareness is the problem as well because we understand the solution to the problem that is life is to die. Revisiting lessons are not useful. We like to believe that we can change, and to an extent we can, but it is only to the entent that biology allows and the environment we are born in will influence us to. The fact that we want to believe we truly have complete control overselfs is almost laughable way of coping with the world around us.

 

If I compare myself to a year ago, I have made strides to do things that are considerd accomplishments. My parents are very proud of me for lists that I can write on and on. I am currently 22 years old. I graduated at the top of my class both in middle and high school. I won a 4 year scholarship to go to a elite private university where I majored in a hard science, chemistry. I am the first in my family to attend a 4 year college. I'm now what people consider a "hot/cute girl (not my words)"after thinking about my appearance" and have many great qualities the someone would most likely enjoy in a partner. I have a job at an Ivy League institution, I am going to school for my masters in the up coming years. I have a strong moral compass and I love deeply and I am forgiving. I am "smart" (tho my ex said differently).

 

Tho I am working on being more articulate and all these things mean absolutely nothing. And I know that. Why am I getting my masters? I honestly don't know, just something else to do in this life. Everyone needs a distraction (or what others call a purpose to justify coping with their pain of existence and living for as long as possible in the fear of death)

[HiCrunchy]

I don't think I've ever tried to assign "meaning" to things. Why do you feel the need to do this? Why is it not enough to simply be a good person and enjoy your life?

 

You say your accomplishments are meaningless, but I'm not sure I understand your thought process. Can you give examples of accomplishments which you see as having meaning? Are we talking Nobel Prize winners? Thing is, most people don't change the world. But we can all make a little difference somewhere.

 

Humans will always sign meaning to things. It is how we operate in the world.

This whole forum is people asking questions about life and assigning meaning to things. "Why does this person this? Why is my ex that? etc..."

When I use the term accomplishment, I mean things that are measurable to humans in the sense of providing a drive to continue to live.

So an accomplishment in my definition doesn't have to be a contribution to the world necessary, for ex. is having a drive to make a healthy breakfast every morning I would consider an accomplish for some people. By accomplishment there isn't something that changes society.

 

Its funny, because normally this is the same advice they give to people losing a loved on, going through a break up or someone with depression:

Focus on small goals which I translate to being (create small distractions so that you don't end your life and suffering. Cope the pain, because...why?

 

Well, you will hurt your loved ones, its selfish, etc. And these reasons in my opinion aren't helpful. People hurt loved ones, all the time in different ways. I shouldn't' have to put up with living life because others want me to. That is selfish on their part.

[HiCrunchy]

I once read that when you encounter someone who wants to commit suicide (I mean someone not just says it, but really means it), instead of reminding her/him that s/he is selfish or lucky compared to those suffering much more, the most effective thing is to remind her/him that s/he is loved, even by a stranger. I think that, often, those contemplating suicide feel isolated emotionally and disconnected from others.

 

Lots of people love you, HiCrunchy!

 

Yes, I am aware that there are many people who love and care about me.

I love these people very much. There are people that I still love and care about that do not feel the same about me, but I still carry love for them in my heart because love shouldn't be conditional. But love is not always enough.

 

I repeat, loving someone is not always enough. This is why so many people leave relationships that they are loved and treated well but for some reason it isn't enough. Or they love their partner but it is not enough to deal with abuse or other pains from the relationship.

Many people have experienced this feeling.

 

And If I ever decided to end my life, then I would make sure that they are aware that they are wonderful humans that should grieve and move on. They will cope (find distractions that will help them deal with the loss), and if they chose to release themselves from life as I have, it is their choice and they are free to do so as well. But if they do so, I wish that they do it on the chance they are sure life is the issue not my absence it self.

 

I have friends and family that love me very much. I am not without love. I know my suffering isn't comparable to others, but as another poster mentioned, a person's threshold for coping is limited. I haven't reached that threshold as of yet.

[divegrl]

The labels, titles, accomplishments are meaningless. This is your life situation....not you.

 

You are limitless, infinite, joyful and loving.

 

Read some books by Eckhart Tolle and Alan Watts.

 

 

Good luck my friend.

[HiCrunchy]

Hey Crunchy , .

 

yaknow , life isn't all about achievements, matter of fact , l haven't met many very happy high achievers at all , and l've met a lot.

As a matter of fact , even back in teens l noticed the happiest people were the simplest people and l've net a lot of them too, and l've usually envied and admired them the most,, even back in my teens.

 

Yaknow , life's full of twists and turns and kicks in the gut and even those simplest of people have been to hell and back usually at some point or another, and had broken hearts too bet on that.

 

But life changes, all the time, never know what's next or around the corner.

And soon you'll move out , and life will change again. There's be new things and people and environments and loves too.

 

l guess we live for tomorrow at times like this.

 

When I use the word achievements, I do not mean them to be things that society as a whole deems to be achievements. I mean small things that personally define to be achievement for themselves. This provides a way for others to distract themselves that all this personal meaning we are adding is just a matter of coping with the suffering that is life. Yes, I am aware that "life is what you make it, and I see that itself to be the problem".

[rubyjuly]

Suicide is not courage, it's cowardice.

 

Dealing with life is courage. Facing your problems is courage.

 

ASKING FOR HELP IS COURAGE

 

With one correction--- suicide is neither courage or cowardice-- it is despair and illness of severe depression

[Chilli]

When I use the word achievements, I do not mean them to be things that society as a whole deems to be achievements. I mean small things that personally define to be achievement for themselves. This provides a way for others to distract themselves that all this personal meaning we are adding is just a matter of coping with the suffering that is life. Yes, I am aware that "life is what you make it, and I see that itself to be the problem".

 

 

Yeah , don;t get me wrong l wasn't saying it's not a great feeling achieving things, but some give up everything to achieve things and l dunno , just sayin haven't seen that work out too well for any l've known.

l wasn't talking about your sitch personally l don't even know it.

 

But anyway how are you feeling , any better ?

[HiCrunchy]

Yeah , don;t get me wrong l wasn't saying it's not a great feeling achieving things, but some give up everything to achieve things and l dunno , just sayin haven't seen that work out too well for any l've known.

l wasn't talking about your sitch personally l don't even know it.

 

But anyway how are you feeling , any better ?

 

Right, the definition of what a person believes to be an achievement (by societal standards or their own) doesn't matter as long has they have a "drive to achieve something". My point is that it doesn't matter, but I am not really sure what that has to do with my post, maybe there is something I am not understanding.

 

Thanks for asking. Well I haven't cried this week which is good. My sister came over for thanksgiving which was nice so its been good. She and I are really close, so it was good to see her.

 

My opinions on life, and suicide are the same, and my mindset on these topics really hasn't been changed. I do feel people dismiss my opinion as just being related to having a "illness" rather than a solid argument for suicide. I'd like an argument that could prove me wrong. I have thought of one, but I do not think that even that is a good enough reason because it works with the idea of meaning and acceptance of the lack-thereof.

 

But my mood is more upbeat, so I can say I do feel happier than I have been the last two weeks.

[d0nnivain]

. I do feel people dismiss my opinion as just being related to having a "illness" rather than a solid argument for suicide. I'd like an argument that could prove me wrong. I have thought of one, but I do not think that even that is a good enough reason because it works with the idea of meaning and acceptance of the lack-thereof.

 

But my mood is more upbeat, so I can say I do feel happier than I have been the last two weeks.

 

 

Glad you are feeling more upbeat.

 

 

The best argument I have ever heard against suicide is that committing it is like throwing blood on your nearest & dearest. When you kill yourself your friends & family left behind feel like they failed you & your death was somehow their fault.

 

 

When you think they don't care, you are wrong. My EX killed himself. His funeral was packed. There were hundreds of people there. The wake hours had to be extended. The service was standing room only & the cops had to close the street. I was so angry that he thought that nobody cared. Many of the people in attendance had tried to help in various ways.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Glad you are feeling more upbeat.

 

 

The best argument I have ever heard against suicide is that committing it is like throwing blood on your nearest & dearest. When you kill yourself your friends & family left behind feel like they failed you & your death was somehow their fault.

 

 

When you think they don't care, you are wrong. My EX killed himself. His funeral was packed. There were hundreds of people there. The wake hours had to be extended. The service was standing room only & the cops had to close the street. I was so angry that he thought that nobody cared. Many of the people in attendance had tried to help in various ways.

 

I'm curious how you knew he thought nobody cared. Did he say this in a note?

 

My perception is that the majority of suicide victims take their own lives to alleviate their own pain even if they have people who care. The pain just becomes to much to bear even with the support of others.

[d0nnivain]

I'm curious how you knew he thought nobody cared. Did he say this in a note?

 

My perception is that the majority of suicide victims take their own lives to alleviate their own pain even if they have people who care. The pain just becomes to much to bear even with the support of others.

 

 

He used to say it all the time, nobody cares; nobody would notice if I was gone; nobody loves me. He didn't leave a note. My EX & I had been apart for almost 2 years when he died. Even if his funeral hadn't been so well attended the devastation his death caused his son is one the best arguments I have ever seen against making this unalterable choice.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

He used to say it all the time, nobody cares; nobody would notice if I was gone; nobody loves me. He didn't leave a note. My EX & I had been apart for almost 2 years when he died. Even if his funeral hadn't been so well attended the devastation his death caused his son is one the best arguments I have ever seen against making this unalterable choice.

 

So sad .

[carhill]

Happy to read the holiday went well and you're generally feeling OK.

 

On this:

 

Also just for arguments sake, can someone give me a good reason, why someone shouldn't commit suicide. I haven't found an argument that is convincing.

 

Spending a lot of time alone, I've pondered this from time to time and have noticed that life seems to bring a new reason for living just when I think it's run out of reasons. It could be reading a post like yours here, it could be a loved one being ill or dying that impels me to consider the value of life, it could be a new interest or challenge. It could be as simple as enjoying the smells and sounds of the coffee brewing this morning in a big empty house and listening to the fire in the fireplace and feeling that warmth.

 

I happened to decide to move to a state that offers assisted suicide to its citizens but, you know, I've never really looked into it. Maybe someday. My wish for you is for many somedays to come your way.

 

Oh, lastly, if you are feeling low, watch out for the winter blues. Cold, low light, celebrations around you when feeling low, on and on. I've known lots of people in life who get very depressed at this time of year. It passes.

 

Best wishes!

[d0nnivain]

I happened to decide to move to a state that offers assisted suicide to its citizens but, you know, I've never really looked into it. Maybe someday. My wish for you is for many somedays to come your way.

 

 

There is a big difference between making a choice to end your life when faced with a debilitating, incurable disease that robs your body & your mind vs. being depressed. The latter can be managed.

[carhill]

That wasn't the topic of the thread and not the intent of my statement so I'll refrain from responding the way I'd like.

[HiCrunchy]

Glad you are feeling more upbeat.

 

 

The best argument I have ever heard against suicide is that committing it is like throwing blood on your nearest & dearest. When you kill yourself your friends & family left behind feel like they failed you & your death was somehow their fault.

 

When you think they don't care, you are wrong. My EX killed himself. His funeral was packed. There were hundreds of people there. The wake hours had to be extended. The service was standing room only & the cops had to close the street. I was so angry that he thought that nobody cared. Many of the people in attendance had tried to help in various ways.

 

People choose themselves ALL THE TIME. Hurt their loved ones, leaving their significant others for selfish reasons, abandoning their children, the list can go on. Death is just another form of abandonment of someone that "loves" you.

Most people basically consider their exes dead to them once they dump them, gone with a blink, and its permanent too, so in most case at least in the perspective of the dumpee, it might as well be like they died. I literally never understood how this was any different.

 

I always hard problems with this argument. It is one of the worst ones, and the whole "suicide is selfish" is a close second. To me suicide is like, leaving a relationship. You leave, not intention of coming back abandoning a person (in the case of suicide, people) who loves and cares you deeply to never speak to them or know of them again. The dumpee feels at fault blaming themselves for the break up, and so do the people you leave behind.

It is not different, so why do people try to convince me not to "leave"?

 

Was it their loved one's fault, well that isn't for me to decide but rather the people involved. It could be, family and friendship dynamics and relationships are complicated. If a person was abused by "people who loved" them...or rather the people who claimed to love them. Well then, yeah some people would say it was their loved one's fault, others still might say no. Just an example.

 

I believe each person's empathy, personality or capacity to rationalize what happened is what will determine if what happened was their fault or not. Its their own internal monologue. .

 

I am sorry about your ex. It must have been a difficult time. I just want to comment on the funeral aspect but I will be as sensitive as I can with the subject matter. If something comes off as offence, that is not my intention.

 

Love doesn't equal proper treatment of a person, and sometimes a funeral can draw out a lot of regret and guilt in people more so than feeling love for the person.

 

How many of those hundreds of people knew him personally? It sounds just like people who say "I have 500 friends on facebook" but some many superficial relationships. In my experience I have gone to more funerals than I'd like to admit and most of the time, I didn't even know the person who had died and my reasons for attending were usually to company someone else who was grieving. I think in total I have gone to 6ish funerals, only one was where it was someone I knew but admittedly wasn't close to.

One of my classmates from HS was killed in a car wreck a few months back and a school teacher of mine passed away this summer. I thought about going to these, but felt it wasn't appropriate (especially since it was done via fb invite) but I wasn't grieving these people in the way others would. Tho they were indeed wonderful human beings.

 

Numbers do not equal love and care, so it is possible that he was alone for real. If you were broken up for 2 years, I assume that this part of his life may not have been obvious to you unless you remained really close friends with him after the break up, but most exes fade or do a "catch up" thing. It is okay if you felt angry because people feel things all the time, and emotions get stirred.

 

Many people knew of him, many people chose to go to his funeral, but we don't know what is going on in the hearts of all of those people.

[JellyTot]

Life is inherently meaningless so we create our own meaning, our own reasons for living. Love, beauty, your one chance at the human experience; this is why you continue living. There is meaning all around you in a million small things. You're just looking in the wrong places. Instead of looking behind you, try looking ahead. Nothing, good or bad, lasts forever.

 

Your ex didn't love you - that doesn't mean nobody ever will. Stop focusing on one person's opinion of you. He didn't love you back, but that doesn't make the love you feel any less real or important. You don't have to stop loving him... just put it away. You loved and it was wonderful. Now go and love some more. Maybe you'll love someone else and maybe you won't. Maybe the meaning in your life will come from watching sunsets, seeing flowers grow, being kind to small animals. Maybe you'll have a child and experience a different kind of love. Romantic love isn't the only thing that gives life meaning. I too have felt love which, like everything else, could not last. But I rejoice in having loved so deeply, even though I wasn't able to keep it. Transience is what makes things beautiful.

 

For me, peace comes from accepting that I'm going to die and in a hundred years none of this will matter. I struggled into existence and will slip quietly out of it. Nobody cares if you're miserable; you're just torturing yourself for no reason. People will stop loving you, they will move on, they will die, you will lose your youth and your health, and nobody will care. This is the time you've been given and you have to live your story in all its colours. It won't always be beautiful but it's yours. The clock is ticking. And when your story is over the world will still exist with its sunsets and strip malls, and perhaps other people living their stories.

[SixxChick]

Life is inherently meaningless so we create our own meaning, our own reasons for living. Love, beauty, your one chance at the human experience; this is why you continue living. There is meaning all around you in a million small things. You're just looking in the wrong places. Instead of looking behind you, try looking ahead. Nothing, good or bad, lasts forever.

 

Your ex didn't love you - that doesn't mean nobody ever will. Stop focusing on one person's opinion of you. He didn't love you back, but that doesn't make the love you feel any less real or important. You don't have to stop loving him... just put it away. You loved and it was wonderful. Now go and love some more. Maybe you'll love someone else and maybe you won't. Maybe the meaning in your life will come from watching sunsets, seeing flowers grow, being kind to small animals. Maybe you'll have a child and experience a different kind of love. Romantic love isn't the only thing that gives life meaning. I too have felt love which, like everything else, could not last. But I rejoice in having loved so deeply, even though I wasn't able to keep it. Transience is what makes things beautiful.

 

For me, peace comes from accepting that I'm going to die and in a hundred years none of this will matter. I struggled into existence and will slip quietly out of it. Nobody cares if you're miserable; you're just torturing yourself for no reason. People will stop loving you, they will move on, they will die, you will lose your youth and your health, and nobody will care. This is the time you've been given and you have to live your story in all its colours. It won't always be beautiful but it's yours. The clock is ticking. And when your story is over the world will still exist with its sunsets and strip malls, and perhaps other people living their stories.

 

This is actually quite brilliant.

[todreaminblue]

its beautiful because she doesnt look dead.....she look like she is merely closing her eyes.....and could open them ...and they would be beautiful eyes....you dont see the violence.......for the violence was in her....the brain matter seeping through the cracked and broken car underneath that immortal photo.....the internal organs that would be mush....they say when you fall from great heights that you after a while black out......i hope she was unconscious when she came in contact with cold metal......that on the way down she hadnt changed her mind.....and was thinking oh god i wish i hadnt jumped.....like i did when i overdosed and decided i wanted to live........i had to live...for my family i would have left behind........or the other times i have tried...im glad i failed for my family and ultimately because i want to live for myself..........my depression isnt gone.....i live with it still.....but thats the thing......i had the courage to keep trying.....

 

its courage that keeps your heart beating you know not cowardice.....its like being a warrior facing battles and no matter how scarred you feel ...you get back up and you keep battling.......

suicide isnt beautiful.......that picture is but then you cant see the violence on the surface...it was within and underneath her body....blood....tissue...flesh...twisted... broken thing......without hope...and without a prayer for tomorrow......thats heart breaking......not beautiful.......she however....was..if only i could have helped her .if someone could have...how beautiful would that have been to see her smile see her with her eyes open laughing..........instead of look at a shell of a body on a car....

 

we are as people just a collection of moments...we are laughter smiles and we are tears........we are the giver of those smiles laughter and those tears......i promised myself that my family and my friends will not have those moments of tears because i decided to end my own life...death is part of life......BUT

 

its when its our time...not to leave behind broken people either dealing with suicide that you put on them........because that is what happens.....you leave behind more mess than just brain matter.....

you leave behind a sadness that will cross generations......

 

 

if you feel really bad make a promise to yourself not to see suicide beautiful see the violence....see the sickness....and reach out wherever or to whoever you can....seek professional help ...i always do if i go down too far where i cant get back up myself.........look after your mental health.....seek a caring professional mental health worker who you feel really comfortable with ...talk to a doctor you trust and believe in....i found adoctor i trust.who seems to care how i am and who i am.......can you believe it....????i found one...i am 48....havent had that before.....he said we have to keep deb around as long as we can to my mum.......maybe he doesnt care....i dont know...but i trust him......never had a doctor before say something like that.....i dont feel so alone in the health department now....i am being listened too...and i really appreciate that.....he doesnt judge me and he listens

 

 

finding a doc you trust is really important.....never give up...:0)...keep going...that is always beautiful...warriors with battle scars always are beautiful...best wishes....deb

[BrokeInside]

It just that sometimes, you can't seem to support the pain and this pain litterally crush you.

 

I was in these very dark places and luckily, step by step, im getting out of the hole.

 

Some life event can be very traumatic and it s a mix of depression, anxiety, vision of no futur, pain, sadness...

 

So i dont judge anyone about it, suicide is not about courage or cowardice, it s just about a pain who seems to never stop.

 

If you feel this way, seek help, keep faith and smile will come back to your face sooner than you think.