Is it really this hard to find someone who can have a decent conversation with you?

[newyorker11356]

One thing I can say regarding OLD is that usually when someone's profile or messaging is fun and engaging, it's usually a good indication that they're that way in person too. If they have anything in their profile that takes a stand or espouses a strong opinion, and if they can show a little personality and/or humor in the messaging, that's a good sign. Sometimes they don't come off that way and you might be pleasantly surprised when you meet them in person, but I think it's rare that you find someone who seems engaging only to reveal themselves to not be. The solution is to use better screening. If they can't give at least an inkling of being able to hold a decent conversation online or through text, move on to someone who can.

 

This is true in my experience.

 

And I completely agree with screening. I do this often, and I think it's why I've always mainly had a good experience with OLD.

[No_Go]

...

I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong... or are there really this many women who can't seem to have a decent conversation? Maybe it's just nerves? Or is it just bad luck on my part that I happen to match with such people?

...

For age group context, I'm 30 and the women I've met are within +/- 5 years of me in age.

 

Yes! Same for men! I absolutely refuse to engage in a conversation starting with 'Hey gorgeous' or some other bull**** compliment. So I'm prescreening for dudes that can write 2-3 coherent sentences that do NOT involve compliments and DO involve reading some information that I shared. And yet - 3-4/100 if that meet this 'requirement' and out of these 3-4 - maybe 1 would pass the continuous, just coherent, NOT flirty, NOT superficial message exchange. How is this THAT hard?!?! I'm not even willing to drag myself out to meet someone who clearly can't communicate.

 

People are apparently told the 'goofier' (dumber) their demeanor is in early dating stages, the better. 'Great' advice...

 

I had this summer 2 first dates from OLD. First one was insanely good conversationalist, every second of the exchange with him has been interesting, inspiring and engaging. The second one felt exactly like job interview. We discussed past experience and future career goals and parted ways At least both did not try to be 'flirty' and managed to sustain a conversation making the first dates worth it.

[Eternal Sunshine]

It really depends on what conversational style you prefer.

 

I personally hate dates that feel like a Q&A session, where men ask me all the standard, boring questions I have been asked so many times already .

 

I prefer not being asked a single question actually. I like it when a guy starts up a date with a random story, feels so much more natural. Like we would meet up for a drink after a work and he would say something like "I can't believe the day I had today!" *the goes on to tell what happened*, like he would with someone he already knows. Then as he is finishing, I would feel like I can relate and I would continue with a story of my own "Oh! That reminds of what happened to me recently..." and so on. If it flows, I know that I have clicked with someone. It also lets each person share what they want, without putting them on the spot.

 

Generally men tend to do a Q&A types of dates. For some reason I specifically hate the question "What are you really passionate about?".

[newyorker11356]

It really depends on what conversational style you prefer.

 

I personally hate dates that feel like a Q&A session, where men ask me all the standard, boring questions I have been asked so many times already .

 

I prefer not being asked a single question actually. I like it when a guy starts up a date with a random story, feels so much more natural. Like we would meet up for a drink after a work and he would say something like "I can't believe the day I had today!" *the goes on to tell what happened*, like he would with someone he already knows. Then as he is finishing, I would feel like I can relate and I would continue with a story of my own "Oh! That reminds of what happened to me recently..." and so on. If it flows, I know that I have clicked with someone. It also lets each person share what they want, without putting them on the spot.

 

Generally, men tend to do a Q&A types of dates. For some reason, I specifically hate the question "What are you really passionate about?".

 

I'm a guy, and believe me, I would hate dates that turn into a boring and standard job interview

 

That's not to say I don't ask some questions (sometimes when the convo has stopped, I ask a question), but I like it when someone asks a question and can keep a conversation going from it, or even it turning it into another topic. But yeah, I definitely like the conversational relating type date

[TunaInTheBrine]

It really depends on what conversational style you prefer.

 

I personally hate dates that feel like a Q&A session, where men ask me all the standard, boring questions I have been asked so many times already .

 

I prefer not being asked a single question actually. I like it when a guy starts up a date with a random story, feels so much more natural. Like we would meet up for a drink after a work and he would say something like "I can't believe the day I had today!" *the goes on to tell what happened*, like he would with someone he already knows. Then as he is finishing, I would feel like I can relate and I would continue with a story of my own "Oh! That reminds of what happened to me recently..." and so on. If it flows, I know that I have clicked with someone. It also lets each person share what they want, without putting them on the spot.

 

Generally men tend to do a Q&A types of dates. For some reason I specifically hate the question "What are you really passionate about?".

 

I'm a guy, and I agree with you 100%. Every time I get asked a question, I feel like I'm auditioning or on a job interview. If I refuse to answer the question or give them a hard time about it, that's obviously not a good start to a first date. One way I've tried to work with it is by using humor and storytelling responses to redirect the interaction away from an interview vibe. Example...

 

Her: "What do you do for a living?"

 

Me: "I'm a trash man." [big smile, playful tone]

 

Her: "Really? But your profile says you're an entrepreneur."

 

Me: "Yeah, I run my own trash business. Some days I love...other days are total garbage." [bigger smile/insert humor]

 

Her: [dead serious look] Oh...so what do you like about it? How'd you get into that?"

 

Me: "It's my life calling. One day I saw a piece of trash on the sidewalk, and I walked by it without doing anything. Man, I felt sooo much guilt afterward. So then, I went to see my psychiatrist. I told her about it, and she said the best way to overcome my guilt was to devote the rest of my days to picking up trash. Voila! Look at me now! Man, have you ever smelled the trash of the inner city on a Monday morning? Mmmm... that's the best part of the job. And my psychiatrist says I'm really making progress these days!"

 

Her: "Wow, I guess you're really passionate about it."

 

etc, etc, etc...

 

The point I'm trying to make here is that I try to direct the interaction toward a more connected place by using humor/story telling/playfulness. Years ago, this would have been a home run interaction, in my experience. The girl would have laughed, hit me on the arm, and we would've been flirting.

 

As the OP pointed out, these days, women seem to really lack conversational/social skills. I literally pulled this script from a date I had a couple of months ago. This actually happened. The woman thought I was completely serious, even with the laughing, smiling, winking, sarcastic tones, etc... She kept asking me questions as if it were an interview. And although this is an example from one date, the couple of dozen dates I've had since then have pretty much gone the same way. It's all very serious, blasé, and no sincere attempts at connection. I have more fun playing with animals at the local shelter.

 

And my favorite: "So, what do you like to do for fun?"

 

I won't list my response here, but I'll tell you that I have some very interesting and creative hobbies, and my calendar looks 1000x more interesting than almost anyone I know. I say a few of my hobbies, and the response I invariably get is: "So, what else do you like to do?," as if my life is boring or I said nothing interesting worth talking about more. No conversation, no exploration, no depth...,

 

It's really, really bad out there. I honestly don't know what impresses women these days or how to connect with them anymore. It used to be that being authentic, passionate, funny, charming, and a good conversationalist was the way into each other's hearts. I don't know what it is anymore...

Edited November 17, 2017 by TunaInTheBrine

[chinadiary]

I think you under estimate what nerves can do to a person. I'm VERY opinionated, confident etc, but on a date, the first few probably, I'll be very quiet. It isn't the real me but I hate what nerves does to me and my conversation, or lack of it.

[joseb]

.She didn't ask even basic questions like, Where did you grow up? Where did you go to school? What's your work like? What movies do you like? Do you have any pets? Nothing.

 

See I hate those kind of questions. Makes the date feel like an interview. A good conversationalist will maybe touch on some of these things in a natural way, without it feeling like 20 questions.

I think if no date you are on has decent conversations, then you need to at least take some of the responsibility for that.

[joseb]

 

Me: "Yeah, I run my own trash business. Some days I love...other days are total garbage." [bigger smile/insert humor]

 

I like playful banter personally.

But I'll say one thing. You say you are not looking for hookups, but then you keep ending up back at your place and having sex on the first night.

 

If you lead with very playful and flirty banter, you are steering the date towards that outcome. Which is great if that's what you want...maybe less so if you really do want more serious..

[elaine567]

Years ago, this would have been a home run interaction, in my experience. The girl would have laughed, hit me on the arm, and we would've been flirting.

 

You have probably got better at spinning your yarn, so it is probably less easy to know if you are joking or not.

 

Unlikely as it sounds there is big money to be made in "trash" these days, so maybe your little "story" is not so a far fetched as you are assuming.

 

You are also laughing at women who are being polite and humouring you on a first date and that ain't too funny actually...

You are answering serious questions with in effect "nonsense".

 

Sounds like you are getting bitter and jaded actually.

[TunaInTheBrine]

I like playful banter personally.

But I'll say one thing. You say you are not looking for hookups, but then you keep ending up back at your place and having sex on the first night.

 

If you lead with very playful and flirty banter, you are steering the date towards that outcome. Which is great if that's what you want...maybe less so if you really do want more serious..

 

I'm not sure I see your point that playful/flirty banter = steering toward a hookup. It can, and I suppose content, tone, and non-verbals play a role as well, but I always felt that playful humor was one tool for facilitating chemistry and attraction.

 

You're right about the hookups though. It's not what I ultimately want. But I know these women I'm meeting have no long-term potential, and they don't seem to feel much for me, so I figure why not hook up?

Edited November 18, 2017 by TunaInTheBrine

[TunaInTheBrine]

You have probably got better at spinning your yarn, so it is probably less easy to know if you are joking or not.

 

Unlikely as it sounds there is big money to be made in "trash" these days, so maybe your little "story" is not so a far fetched as you are assuming.

 

You are also laughing at women who are being polite and humouring you on a first date and that ain't too funny actually...

You are answering serious questions with in effect "nonsense".

 

Sounds like you are getting bitter and jaded actually.

 

It probably sounds/looks a lot different in person than how you're interpreting it based on content alone.

 

I'm not sure how your judgment of my being bitter and jaded is supposed to be helpful, though I do agree that I'm getting pretty worn out these days from all the blasé attitudes, lack of effort, and entitlement attitudes that I'm seeing on dates. Sure, not all women are like that (and yes, a lot of men are like that too). I do bring a sincere openness into each meeting, but it's undeniable that the dating scene has changed A LOT since 10 years ago and I am very concerned about the direction it's taking.

[Marks]

But your immediate social circles are most likely the best places to find appropriate women.

Professionals don't tend to marry other professionals for no reason.

They speak your language and you speak theirs.

 

Well I guess what I meant by my social and professional circles was that they're static, as in they're always the same people, week in/week out. New people don't circle into them very often, so it's hard to meet women this way because there just aren't new single women popping into my social circles.

 

I think OLD is better in the sense that you know people (most at least) are single and looking to date. In my experience, every time I try to meet women in real life (ones I'd be into it at least), they're either married/in a relationship, not looking to date right now, or just not into me. It's almost unreal, lol. OLD has been the only venue that's really worked for me in getting dates, and a bit short relationships. Nothing long-term (yet at least).

 

This is one of the main benefits of OLD, that at least you know (generally) that the people on these apps are single and looking. At my age, a lot of the women I meet in real life are either married or in a relationship, or are not interested in dating. So it's hard to find someone. OLD at least brings together all the single and looking people together in one place.

 

One thing I can say regarding OLD is that usually when someone's profile or messaging is fun and engaging, it's usually a good indication that they're that way in person too.

 

I would agree generally, but I've had cases where this didn't happen. Actually, the date I went on that prompted this thread was like this... via messaging, she seemed fairly engaged, there was back and forth in getting to know each other, etc. But in person, it was very different. She kept going on and on about her experiences, but asked little about mine.

 

See I hate those kind of questions. Makes the date feel like an interview. A good conversationalist will maybe touch on some of these things in a natural way, without it feeling like 20 questions.

I think if no date you are on has decent conversations, then you need to at least take some of the responsibility for that.

 

I hate those questions too, and I only wrote those as examples of ones that at the very least she could have asked me in case she couldn't have come up with anything else to ask me, and so that the conversation wouldn't be so one-sided.

 

I generally don't like those interview type questions either. I even dislike when women ask me "what do you like to do for fun" via OLD messaging...it seems so generic and un-creative. I much rather if people learn my interests through other avenues, like story telling or describing your experiences with something.

 

Sometimes though you have to start with something since you don't know anything about the person. But I much prefer the storytelling style. When the woman says something, like "oh I went to Denver last weekend", I'll interject and say "oh I've been to Denver before..." and go on to describe what I did there, what my impression of the place was, etc. And branch off the conversation from there.

[elaine567]

She kept going on and on about her experiences, but asked little about mine.

 

Seems like you may be guilty of the same thing.

 

Sometimes though you have to start with something since you don't know anything about the person. But I much prefer the storytelling style. When the woman says something, like "oh I went to Denver last weekend", I'll interject and say "oh I've been to Denver before..." and go on to describe what I did there, what my impression of the place was, etc. And branch off the conversation from there.

 

Maybe it didn't gel because instead of setting you up for a chance for you to expound on your experiences, she instead saw it as a chance to tell you about hers.

 

I have seen many long term relationships, where one person will introduce the topic as they know their partner will then take over the conversation. Its like a double act, the comedian and the stooge, the straight man who feeds the other lines and the "star" who takes over and delivers the punch line...

 

I wonder if you are used to being the "star" in your previous relationship, so you feel nothing works as either they do not feed you any decent lines for you to work off or they go ahead and tell their own version of events leaving you peeved and frustrated.

 

Just a thought.

[Marks]

Seems like you may be guilty of the same thing.

 

Maybe it didn't gel because instead of setting you up for a chance for you to expound on your experiences, she instead saw it as a chance to tell you about hers.

 

I have seen many long term relationships, where one person will introduce the topic as they know their partner will then take over the conversation. Its like a double act, the comedian and the stooge, the straight man who feeds the other lines and the "star" who takes over and delivers the punch line...

 

I wonder if you are used to being the "star" in your previous relationship, so you feel nothing works as either they do not feed you any decent lines for you to work off or they go ahead and tell their own version of events leaving you peeved and frustrated.

 

Just a thought.

 

I think you're misunderstanding what I wrote. I just like a normal back and forth conversation. It's easy when someone leaves some pause time to let the other person make a comment or ask a question. Or if the other person asks a question in return.

 

My experience with this last date was that I'd ask a question, she would answer, explain things a bit, and then would end. Then dead-air. I would have to ask something else or follow up in order to keep a conversation going. It just felt like a one-way street.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Met up with a random app guy today for lunch. Conversation was AWFUL.

 

Him: So how was your day so far?

Me:.....I did x, y ,z.

Him: So what do you have planned for the rest of the day?

Me: w,h,g

Him: So how many brothers and sisters do you have?

Me: *kill me now*

 

He had an opportunity to go on any tangent with my responses but he just chose to fire random questions at me.

 

Luckily it was only lunch so I said I have to get back to work within 30 minutes.

[No_Go]

This reminds me the reason lunch dates are great Clear upper limit.

 

Met up with a random app guy today for lunch. Conversation was AWFUL.

 

Him: So how was your day so far?

Me:.....I did x, y ,z.

Him: So what do you have planned for the rest of the day?

Me: w,h,g

Him: So how many brothers and sisters do you have?

Me: *kill me now*

 

He had an opportunity to go on any tangent with my responses but he just chose to fire random questions at me.

 

Luckily it was only lunch so I said I have to get back to work within 30 minutes.

[CptInsano]

I don't use OLD, and I don't find it hard to have a conversation with somebody. If so, it's the opposite problem, meaning ending the conversation without being impolite becomes the harder part. In think that most people have a story to tell if you let them.

[joseb]

 

My experience with this last date was that I'd ask a question, she would answer, explain things a bit, and then would end. Then dead-air. I would have to ask something else or follow up in order to keep a conversation going. It just felt like a one-way street.

 

Ok, yeah that sounds like hard work.

Either she's just a bad conversationalist, and/or there isn't much chemistry there.