28 year old man, never had a serious relationship - very frustrated with dating

[AltarsofMadness]

It's really hard to say without seeing you in person, in action, etc. But after reading everything I'd have to say it sounds like your standards are too high. You may be chasing women out of your league. Or, maybe there's something off in your interpersonal communication skills?

 

I've always tended to stay away from the really attractive women. I'm not into the high maintenance types and the ones every guy in the place is drooling over, which sounds like maybe what you're after. There's stiff competition there. I much prefer a more understated beauty, low make-up, not a lot of flash, but more down to earth and I guess plain.

 

The problem for me has been that many of my ex girlfriends have been very insecure, thinking they're not pretty enough for me and that I'm going to leave them for somebody more beautiful. One even told my mom years ago "he'll leave me for a prettier woman." I've never done that, and I never considered myself above them. I found them beautiful, which is why I was with them.

 

 

I've turned down women for having kids, for being smokers, etc... I really haven't turned down women for not being attractive enough

 

 

I've had ladies who were very attractive who liked me, just the other stuff wasn't a good fit

[Cookiesandough]

Don't date women you arent attracted to. That doesn't service you or them. Wait before you do that. Usually, we adjust our standards based on what we know we're capable of getting. So if we aren't attracted to the person we're on a date with, we're aiming too low because we are desperate. We're staying home one night because we are just too picky. That's been my experience at least.

[Highndry]

I've turned down women for having kids, for being smokers, etc... I really haven't turned down women for not being attractive enough

 

 

I've had ladies who were very attractive who liked me, just the other stuff wasn't a good fit

 

I guess I just got the impression from what I read that you were looking in the top 5% or whatever. I agree with the smoking, I would never date a smoker. At your age I'm sure you can find women without kids. You may just have to make finding a mate a top priority, and aim to go on X number of dates per month or something. I'm sure there's somebody out there for you. There's somebody for everyone. It's just effort to find the right one.

[AltarsofMadness]

I guess I just got the impression from what I read that you were looking in the top 5% or whatever. I agree with the smoking, I would never date a smoker. At your age I'm sure you can find women without kids. You may just have to make finding a mate a top priority, and aim to go on X number of dates per month or something. I'm sure there's somebody out there for you. There's somebody for everyone. It's just effort to find the right one.

 

 

I want a woman who is good looking and in nice shape. I don't know what percentage that would put them in - I am good looking and in nice shape also. I have very strong preference for darker skinned ladies (in terms of Spanish, Puerto Rican, Mexican, South American, Greek, Italian, French, etc....)

 

 

As far as x amount of dates per month. I don't ever get any dates with anybody I can see myself being with long term. The women who show interest towards me are always single moms and my age or single moms and over 30

 

 

if I had a couple dates with someone I can see myself being with long term, I would seal the deal. I am very very good on dates. All the women I've ever been out with, probably 90% of them wanted to be with me long term - I just didn't like any of them. I was seeing a 35 year old last month (I thought I would just give it a chance, maybe I can overlook the age and her being divorced with kids) and she was very very much into me. I broke it off after a few dates though because I knew I wouldn't be happy with her long term, although she was very pretty and super sweet.

 

 

It's worth noting i live in the suburbs so I tend to be around a lot of older people and people with kids unfortunately. I am in a suburb 40 minutes from Chicago but when I do meet someone who I would consider dating, they don't want to go out with me.

Edited October 23, 2017 by AltarsofMadness

[Highndry]

I am in a suburb 40 minutes from Chicago but when I do meet someone who I would consider dating, they don't want to go out with me.

 

Why?

 

 

......

[AltarsofMadness]

Why?

 

 

......

 

 

I don't know

 

 

I was talking to this super cute Mexican girl last night and I figured I would be exactly her type, being that I look like a very upscale Puerto Rican man and she turned me down. I thought we were getting along great. Our conversation was super smooth/fun. I was not being awkward/desperate at all. I dunno

[Cookiesandough]

I am trying to figure out if I'm doing something wrong or the heavy rejection rate is a natural result of who I am interested in

 

 

All the data I've ever seen out there says that women still get married at around 27 to say 31....which means they're meeting the man that they want to settle down with at around 22-28...which is basically the age range I am interested in. Even in NYC, the average age is 30-34...which means they're meeting the person they want to marry around 27-30 but that's the very high end. In illinois, the number is 27...again means they're meeting their man at 23

 

 

Something absolutely does not add up. How can a handsome and extraordinarily successful 28 year old man with strong family values who is very interested in marriage/kids struggle to meet someone?? The math just doesn't add up at all

 

what do you look like jw

[AltarsofMadness]

what do you look like jw

 

 

a more masculine/less metrosexual version of Mario Lopez

[TunaInTheBrine]

Your concerns aren't uncommon. I'm sure some percentage of each of the factors you named go into your situation.

 

I believe that it usually isn't until many women stop having strong leverage in the dating department (e.g. they now come with kids, time is running out to reproduce, etc...) that they start to realize the possibilities are no longer endless, and that it's time to get serious where it counts. This isn't a bad thing, and in fact, many women who are single with no kids could learn a thing or two from this perspective, but they usually don't until they themselves are in the same or similar category. Until then, they have a hard time settling because they jump from guy to guy, usually settling on the wrong guy and divorcing as a single mother 10 years later.

 

Many guys, even the ones who get "the cream of the crop," are not satisfied with their situation. Chasing women, initiating, leading, "playin the field," is exhausting, and we often have to weed through a lot of maybes, flakes, and unhealthy people before we find someone we really like. When we finally do, she might not stick around. The expectations are higher than ever before today, and long-term relationships for anybody feel a lot harder to make last. Can anyone really say that love is improving?

 

I don't mean to sound discouraging. I'm just putting into perspective that your situation is not that uncommon. I've learned that when I use this perspective, I personalize it less. Obviously, the more you want to find an LTR the more frustrating it is, so learning how to enjoy the ride until if and when you find an LTR is key. It's all part of the process.

Edited October 23, 2017 by TunaInTheBrine

[Cookiesandough]

Very nice ty.

 

I'd definitely say work on your confidence. Having been a late bloomer and bullied myself, it can be VERY hard to regain the confidence (...and something else I really can't even describe)you need to reach your maximum potential in dating. It's depressing to say, but it's a critical stage in development and how we interact with the opposite sex. It's not something that can't be fixed but it does take a lot of stepping outside comfort zone/failures/etc

[AltarsofMadness]

Your concerns aren't uncommon. I'm sure some percentage of each of the factors you named go into your situation.

 

I believe that it usually isn't until many women stop having strong leverage in the dating department (e.g. they now come with kids, time is running out to reproduce, etc...) that they start to realize the possibilities are no longer endless, and that it's time to get serious where it counts. This isn't a bad thing, and in fact, many women who are single with no kids could learn a thing or two from this perspective, but they usually don't until they themselves are in the same or similar category. Until then, they have a hard time settling because they jump from guy to guy, usually settling on the wrong guy and divorcing as a single mother 10 years later.

 

Many guys, even the ones who get "the cream of the crop," are not satisfied with their situation. Chasing women, initiating, leading, "playin the field," is exhausting, and we often have to weed through a lot of maybes, flakes, and unhealthy people before we find someone we really like. When we finally do, she might not stick around. The expectations are higher than ever before today, and long-term relationships for anybody feel a lot harder to make last.

 

I don't mean to sound discouraging. I'm just putting into perspective that your situation is not that uncommon. I've learned that when I use this perspective, I personalize it less. Obviously, the more you want to find an LTR the more frustrating it is, so learning how to enjoy the ride until if and when you find an LTR is key. It's all part of the process.

 

 

so the mid 20s women without kids are looking for what? Brad Pitt in his prime??

 

 

For what it's worth, I've known plenty of quality women dating men way below their league. A beautiful Puerto Rican girl working for my friend is dating a guy who is easily 30 LBs overweight

 

 

Is this a question of me not being confident enough when I do approach these women or is it because I have to ask them out on the spot instead of building rapport over time? (I don't meet women in my daily routine, I have to cold approach and ask them out on the spot)

[AltarsofMadness]

Very nice ty.

 

I'd definitely say work on your confidence. Having been a late bloomer and bullied myself, it can be VERY hard to regain the confidence (...and something else I really can't even describe)you need to reach your maximum potential in dating. It's depressing to say, but it's a critical stage in development and how we interact with the opposite sex. It's not something that can't be fixed but it does take a lot of stepping outside comfort zone/failures/etc

 

 

 

so you think I should have no problem dating women I want to be with if I am more confident?

 

 

I really don't think I'm wrong about my positive traits. I've had tons and tons and tons of people tell me that I'm good looking and also genuinely a great person.

[TunaInTheBrine]

so the mid 20s women without kids are looking for what? Brad Pitt in his prime??

 

 

For what it's worth, I've known plenty of quality women dating men way below their league. A beautiful Puerto Rican girl working for my friend is dating a guy who is easily 30 LBs overweight

 

 

Is this a question of me not being confident enough when I do approach these women or is it because I have to ask them out on the spot instead of building rapport over time? (I don't meet women in my daily routine, I have to cold approach and ask them out on the spot)

 

Maybe not Brad Pitt, but a man who makes them feel as though she is dating Brad Pitt, yes. For women, it's an emotional experience they desire.

 

Maybe part of it is confidence. It seemed like from your original post that you felt you could improve in this area. But I don't think it's all about that. It could also be the women you go for. Remember, we can't have it all either. What are you willing to negotiate?

 

I'm in my mid-30s and looks are still a HUGE factor to me. It's not everything, but I have a hard time allowing myself to get involved with someone I don't feel at least a little nervous around. What ends up happening is that when I do date really attractive women, they tend to be unhealthy, and the relationship is a disaster. By now, I've come to terms with it and have realized that at this point in my life, I'm willing to have those kind of fleeting relationships with gorgeous beauties over settling on someone I'm simply not that attracted to just to have an LTR - even if she has lots of other good qualities. I wish it weren't that way, but that's the way it is for me. Maybe that will change one day for me. But I'm still young-ish, and even though I get lonely, I'd rather live this way than in the loneliness that comes from being in a relationship and feeling like it's not right.

 

I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but merely provide an example to suggest that maybe your struggles aren't all that different from many of the women you want to date, or even that different from other guys like me. We're all just trying to do our best here, and hopefully over time we learn some lessons and get lucky enough to meet someone in the right place at the right time. But getting down on yourself or giving up isn't going to help in the long run. It takes a lot of strength, heartache, and then more strength through recovery, to do dating and keep your head in tact.

[AltarsofMadness]

Maybe not Brad Pitt, but a man who makes them feel as though she is dating Brad Pitt, yes. For women, it's an emotional experience they desire.

 

Maybe part of it is confidence. It seemed like from your original post that you felt you could improve in this area. But I don't think it's all about that. It could also be the women you go for. Remember, we can't have it all either. What are you willing to negotiate?

 

I'm in my mid-30s and looks are still a HUGE factor to me. It's not everything, but I have a hard time allowing myself to get involved with someone I don't feel at least a little nervous around. What ends up happening is that when I do date really attractive women, they tend to be unhealthy, and the relationship is a disaster. By now, I've come to terms with it and have realized that at this point in my life, I'm willing to have those kind of fleeting relationships with gorgeous beauties over settling on someone I'm simply not that attracted to just to have an LTR - even if she has lots of other good qualities. I wish it weren't that way, but that's the way it is for me. Maybe that will change one day for me. But I'm still young-ish, and even though I get lonely, I'd rather live this way than in the loneliness that comes from being in a relationship and feeling like it's not right.

 

I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but merely provide an example to suggest that maybe your struggles aren't all that different from many of the women you want to date, or even that different from other guys like me. We're all just trying to do our best here, and hopefully over time we learn some lessons and get lucky enough to meet someone in the right place at the right time. But getting down on yourself or giving up isn't going to help in the long run. It takes a lot of strength, heartache, and then more strength through recovery, to do dating and keep your head in tact.

 

 

honestly man it's hard in my head to justify why I am in the situation I am in and have had no real success in dating. I am getting older and older and I've literally now wanted a relationship for 13 years to no avail

 

 

I've worked obsessively hard at improving every aspect of myself that one day I would just naturally meet the woman I want to be with...and I can't even meet someone that I want to go out on a date with who wants to go out with me also. It's very difficult to not get extremely discouraged

 

 

Big part of the problem for me is living in the suburbs. I would meet a lot more childless, professional cute mid 20s women living in the city but I have a house, great friends and family and great paying job within 10 minutes of me. I would be absolutely insane to give that up but I can't lie to you - I have seriously wondered if I will be alone my whole life - I mean I'm in the absolute prime of my life, there is no reason dating should be this difficult.

 

 

edit: i'm not looking for supermodel women - just someone kinda cute with a nice fit body would be good as long as everything else aligns properly.

[Sara1989]

honestly man it's hard in my head to justify why I am in the situation I am in and have had no real success in dating. I am getting older and older and I've literally now wanted a relationship for 13 years to no avail

 

 

I've worked obsessively hard at improving every aspect of myself that one day I would just naturally meet the woman I want to be with...and I can't even meet someone that I want to go out on a date with who wants to go out with me also. It's very difficult to not get extremely discouraged

 

 

Big part of the problem for me is living in the suburbs. I would meet a lot more childless, professional cute mid 20s women living in the city but I have a house, great friends and family and great paying job within 10 minutes of me. I would be absolutely insane to give that up but I can't lie to you - I have seriously wondered if I will be alone my whole life - I mean I'm in the absolute prime of my life, there is no reason dating should be this difficult.

 

 

edit: i'm not looking for supermodel women - just someone kinda cute with a nice fit body would be good as long as everything else aligns properly.

 

This thread is really sad...you have a list of criteria these women have to meet, even being a smoker means she's a no yet here you are...a 28 year old man who NEVER had an relationship, now for any person that be a red flag.

 

People date for fun and to see how things go, there is no long list of criteras that must be met. I think the reason your so picky is because you never had a relationship before, its as simple as that.

 

Stop being offended that older women like you or single moms (How dare they!) the reason mid 20s women are not interested is because you are coming across desperate, they can smell you off a mile away. You are looking for a wife, not to date and have fun. These women know that! you will have no luck until you chill out. Good luck, I think you need it.

[AltarsofMadness]

This thread is really sad...you have a list of criteria these women have to meet, even being a smoker means she's a no yet here you are...a 28 year old man who NEVER had an relationship, now for any person that be a red flag.

 

the screwed up thing is that I don't think I'm all that picky. Most guys in my situation marry a woman that's similar to what I want. All the guys I know who are attractive, young, in shape and successful married women who are the same. I feel like I deserve to be dating a super high quality woman.

 

PS. Smoking is absolutely disgusting. I'm a hardcore fitness freak... I would hate being with a smoker or compulsive eater.

 

People date for fun and to see how things go, there is no long list of criteras that must be met. I think the reason your so picky is because you never had a relationship before, its as simple as that.

 

I have never had a serious relationship but I've had flings where I was seeing someone for a certain period of time. I was seeing a 35 year old for about a month. Last year, I was seeing a 45 year old for about 8 months on and off. There are several others. I had a great time and all these ladies were super nice but none of them would work for me in terms of long term dating so I cut it off and I'm happy I did. I don't want anybody getting attached to me that I can't date. That's a horrible feeling

 

Stop being offended that older women like you or single moms (How dare they!) the reason mid 20s women are not interested is because you are coming across desperate, they can smell you off a mile away.

 

 

I'm not offended that anybody likes me, I'm extremely flattered. Hell I'm extremely flattered when gay men say I'm gorgeous

 

So you think I'm doing something wrong and my failure rate is not a natural bi product of a much much higher difficulty level when approaching childless, attractive women in their 20s?? that's what I want to know. I'm okay with that, I'm willing to work on myself. I still can't figure out why older women and single moms like me so much - you're implying that they're willing to ignore the desperation or that I'm not being desperate around them?

[basil67]

I don't know

 

 

I was talking to this super cute Mexican girl last night and I figured I would be exactly her type, being that I look like a very upscale Puerto Rican man and she turned me down. I thought we were getting along great. Our conversation was super smooth/fun. I was not being awkward/desperate at all. I dunno

 

Perhaps she wasn't interested in dating at the moment. Or she already has a boyfriend. Or she's tired of getting hit on.

[Sara1989]

So you think I'm doing something wrong and my failure rate is not a natural bi product of a much much higher difficulty level when approaching childless, attractive women in their 20s?? that's what I want to know. I'm okay with that, I'm willing to work on myself. I still can't figure out why older women and single moms like me so much - you're implying that they're willing to ignore the desperation or that I'm not being desperate around them?

 

The reason the women you do not want are interested is likely because you know they are not LT relationship material so in a sense you are dating them for fun, you are laid back and just having a good time. That is charming to any woman.

 

With the woman you do really like, I bet you are giving off an energy which is a warning sign to these ladies. Most women in their mid 20s are not thinking about marriage etc. Just be yourself, be chilled and stop worrying about settling down.

[AltarsofMadness]

The reason the women you do not want are interested is likely because you know they are not LT relationship material so in a sense you are dating them for fun, you are laid back and just having a good time. That is charming to any woman.

 

With the woman you do really like, I bet you are giving off an energy which is a warning sign to these ladies. Most women in their mid 20s are not thinking about marriage etc. Just be yourself, be chilled and stop worrying about settling down.

 

 

that's what I suspected you would say. I understand what you're alluding to but even when I feel like I'm being completely care free and confident, I still have a horrible success rate. It's probably a combination of both a much higher difficulty curve and me not being confident enough. I just have to accept that I'm gonna get rejected at a very high rate and 1 yes is all I need.

 

I should clarify I'm not looking to get married now...within 4 to 7 years maybe

Edited October 23, 2017 by AltarsofMadness

[hercules22]

this is why im trying to find someone to get serious with at age of 25 as i know it just gonna get tougher as you get older

 

i never had proper serious relationship either all been short ones couple months

[GemmaUK]

Maybe you come across a bit too intense with the ones you like more who are the right age, non smokers, no kids etc...

[BlueIvy]

I am not trying to be mean but seems something is OFF about you. Good looking, fit, educated men can literally get any women they want. I have seen this so many times. Hell, good looking men get women just on looks alone.

 

And usually, men in this category are alpha males which is what most women find attractive. If you are as attractive as you say, then you are either coming off as awkward or your personality is off putting. Do you have female friends, ask them for a honest assessment how you come off...

 

I also think you may need to expand your criteria. Can you go up to 30 or 32, it's not even far off from 28?

 

Also, many Latina women tend to have kids very young, so maybe be more open to other ethnicities as well.If a woman is beautiful and has the qualities you want, are you going to throw that chance away over her not being a preferred ethnicity?

 

Also, try online dating, you can get more access to a variety of women or more likely to get one you specifically want.

[AltarsofMadness]

this is why im trying to find someone to get serious with at age of 25 as i know it just gonna get tougher as you get older

 

i never had proper serious relationship either all been short ones couple months

 

 

I think finding someone as a man gets easier as you get older if you keep yourself in great shape, are successful financially, etc... Dating women in their 30s and 40s is pretty easy but you have to be ok dating a woman who is divorced/with kids from a previous marriage. If you're okay with that (which a lot of guys are) - a lot of those women are plenty good looking, super nice, great in bed, intelligent, etc...

 

 

I think the problem is that everybody wants the girls I want so i'm facing super stiff competition making it much more difficult to stand out. Attractive 25 year olds are getting hit on by super gorgeous men everywhere they go

[AltarsofMadness]

I am not trying to be mean but seems something is OFF about you. Good looking, fit, educated men can literally get any women they want. I have seen this so many times. Hell, good looking men get women just on looks alone.

 

You people who say this crack me up

 

I'll give you a story of me and my best friend

 

Me - 5'10 195, American football linebacker/fullback body type, GQ fashion sense, look kind of like a more masculine Mario Lopez. I make around 160K a year. I'm 28

 

My best friend - 5'11 205 lbs, arms like tree trunks, fitness magazine coverboy bodytype, GQ fashion sense, all American white boy (blonde hair, blue eyes, comic book hero jawline). He's probably worth 15 million - he's about 38 years old.

 

Neither one of us have either had women thrown at us and if we did, it was nobody we would ever consider dating. He has had a lot more dating success than I've had but I've seen him get turned down lots and lots of times. He's an awesome guy, super super nice...not arrogant at all. I'm certainly not arrogant at all and treat everybody well.

 

You all are perceiving our dating life through the eyes of an attractive woman. The flipside does not work that way. Moderately attractive women have a 50,000 times easier dating life than even the most gorgeous men

 

 

I also think you may need to expand your criteria. Can you go up to 30 or 32, it's not even far off from 28?

 

Also, many Latina women tend to have kids very young, so maybe be more open to other ethnicities as well.If a woman is beautiful and has the qualities you want, are you going to throw that chance away over her not being a preferred ethnicity?

 

I prefer Latina/italian/Greek/Spanish/French/French canadian, basically some kind of darker skinned but European looking woman but if I met a very attractive asian woman, I would date her too. I am generally not attracted to blacks or indians. I think fair skinned white women are beautiful at a young age but they tend to age very very rough. Middle eastern women are gorgeous but I'm not going to date a muslim so I would only be open if they are Christian or, even better, non religious.

 

I would maybe be open up to 30.

 

 

Also, try online dating, you can get more access to a variety of women or more likely to get one you specifically want.

 

 

Online dating is like a caricature of real life dating. If you think it's hard approaching cute 25 year olds in real life...try approaching them online when they are receiving 500,000 messages a day from men who look like Channing Tatum and Chris Hemsworth

 

Online dating is pretty much worthless for men under 30 looking for women under 30.

[BlueIvy]

You people who say this crack me up

 

I'll give you a story of me and my best friend

 

Me - 5'10 195, American football linebacker/fullback body type, GQ fashion sense, look kind of like a more masculine Mario Lopez. I make around 160K a year. I'm 28

 

My best friend - 5'11 205 lbs, arms like tree trunks, fitness magazine coverboy bodytype, GQ fashion sense, all American white boy (blonde hair, blue eyes, comic book hero jawline). He's probably worth 15 million - he's about 38 years old.

 

Neither one of us have either had women thrown at us and if we did, it was nobody we would ever consider dating. He has had a lot more dating success than I've had but I've seen him get turned down lots and lots of times. He's an awesome guy, super super nice...not arrogant at all. I'm certainly not arrogant at all and treat everybody well.

 

You all are perceiving our dating life through the eyes of an attractive woman. The flipside does not work that way. Moderately attractive women have a 50,000 times easier dating life than even the most gorgeous men

 

 

 

 

I prefer Latina/italian/Greek/Spanish/French/French canadian, basically some kind of darker skinned but European looking woman but if I met a very attractive asian woman, I would date her too. I am generally not attracted to blacks or indians. I think fair skinned white women are beautiful at a young age but they tend to age very very rough. Middle eastern women are gorgeous but I'm not going to date a muslim so I would only be open if they are Christian or, even better, non religious.

 

I would maybe be open up to 30.

 

 

 

 

 

Online dating is like a caricature of real life dating. If you think it's hard approaching cute 25 year olds in real life...try approaching them online when they are receiving 500,000 messages a day from men who look like Channing Tatum and Chris Hemsworth

 

Online dating is pretty much worthless for men under 30 looking for women under 30.

 

Fair enough but that's just been my experience. Men who are that attractive usually have no problem pulling women. My cousin for example is good looking, fit, drives a beamer, makes good money. HEven one of my friends asked me who is that and said how his body is nice, and that's not her usual type. i am not saying they don't have to put in work but most women aren't rejecting a man of that caliber, unless she's taken/not her type.

 

Anyway, sometimes it's good to be open-minded, you might be surprised.

 

I am dating an Indian dude which isn't "my type" and so far it's good. I care more about personality, but of course no one should date someone if they feel no attraction. But it's good to be open-minded, might work out well is all I am saying. A handsome man is a handsome man to me.

 

I don't think OLD is worthless. It works for some. I know this girl, attractive, curvy and she found her boyfriend. And he's a straight laced dude, nice job. And they are both are like 26/27.

 

30 and 28 is only 2 years, the right girl could be 30. You might need to do paid subscription sites or just be more persistent. Hit up all the women you want and hopefully it clicks. At least try it for a few months.

 

IDK but you seem to be very specific about what you want and 1 person is not going to have everything you want.

 

You have gotten some good advice but doesn't seem like you care to listen to any of it, or least not to mine,lol.

 

Good Luck though.