Need to know all the truth

[merrmeade]

I did (reach out to the AP). I feel like I never would have gotten the truth if I hadn't. Remember, women are likely to lie about the sex, men are likely to lie about everything else. The AP gave me the real sex details and a near complete fabrication of the "how it happened" and "who pursed who". My wife gave me the opposite, sex details that sound like something from a RomCom and the real "how it happened" story. I never confirmed her "how it happened" with the AP, but my W did eventually confirm the sex details that I got from the AP as accurate/true. It came at a price though, trusting the POSOM over your W puts you in a bad spot; it's almost like you and her AP against her. Not exactly good for healing, that's for sure.

 

Also, I will say, I "had something" over the AP, something that was very important to him that I did not disclose, so he had very good reason to respond to me and tell me the truth. Had I not had this, I'm not sure I would have gone down this route because the AP has every reason in the world to lie/minimize and make it all the other person's (in this case, your spouse) fault. I also went way beyond "legal/moral" in my quest for electronic data, I'm not happy with myself for this either, some of it was way over the line. It did give me more and let me wring out the last couple of confessions, but, all of this stuff, it comes at a price to the BS. You become, at least I did, a more crappy version of yourself. I spent months after d-day making threats, being a bully, gathering intelligence using illegal methods, and basically just being a POS. It's not like I didn't have justification, but, I crossed the line and now have to live with it.

Yeah, this is the thing. You have to really debase yourself to get the important details if your WS is trickle-truthing and blackmailing an AP would be at that level. In fact, interacting with the OW/M for any reason is debasing.

 

I believe the people who insist that pushing them to the brink of finality, as in divorce or polygraph, is the only way. I couldn't have done it but if white rage drives you, maybe you can.

[Overtaxed]

Yeah, this is the thing. You have to really debase yourself to get the important details if your WS is trickle-truthing and blackmailing an AP would be at that level. In fact, interacting with the OW/M for any reason is debasing.

 

I believe the people who insist that pushing them to the brink of finality, as in divorce or polygraph, is the only way. I couldn't have done it but if white rage drives you, maybe you can.

 

I suspect my wife would have agreed to a D to keep from spilling the details. Honestly, I felt my back was against the wall, D or twist the screws on the AP and get the truth, then use that to get the confessions/real story from my W.

 

Yes, it still bothers me, deeply. When the W tells me things about the A now, often one of my first thoughts is "Better confirm that with the AP". It's soul destroying, the person you should most hate in the world is the person who you can also trust, while the one who vowed to love you is the one who's telling lies.

 

I will say, if you can't get leverage over the AP, I wouldn't do it. My W's AP is a serial and IMHO, would have either brushed it off entirely (my demands for info), or more likely, told me a story designed to get me to boot the W out so that he could continue the A. Remember, the AP's are interested parties here, they have reason to lie, you have to have a better reason for them to tell you truth and "do the right thing" isn't that reason, they've already proven that's beyond them.

[Müun]

I know already the other person felt used from my nie husband as she was an ex turned friend with benefits and hoped to get closer to him again but he choose to marry me and have a child together ( without letting her know) she found out through social media. I know that when she found out they weren’t speaking already and she didn’t even got back at him to ask for an explanation. I know this because she told me and wh confirmed.

I suspect that sometimes when the AP feels used and hurt and has no intention to go on in the relationship would tell the truth, without the need of threatening then. Which and proofs could be faked easily by the way, with the quantity of digital data involved in affairs nowadays. I don’t care much about debasing myself if the other option is spending more years with a person I can’t trust. Life is too short and good people deserve honesty and happiness.

Thanks for your replies.

 

I suspect my wife would have agreed to a D to keep from spilling the details. Honestly, I felt my back was against the wall, D or twist the screws on the AP and get the truth, then use that to get the confessions/real story from my W.

 

Yes, it still bothers me, deeply. When the W tells me things about the A now, often one of my first thoughts is "Better confirm that with the AP". It's soul destroying, the person you should most hate in the world is the person who you can also trust, while the one who vowed to love you is the one who's telling lies.

 

I will say, if you can't get leverage over the AP, I wouldn't do it. My W's AP is a serial and IMHO, would have either brushed it off entirely (my demands for info), or more likely, told me a story designed to get me to boot the W out so that he could continue the A. Remember, the AP's are interested parties here, they have reason to lie, you have to have a better reason for them to tell you truth and "do the right thing" isn't that reason, they've already proven that's beyond them.

[merrmeade]

I know already the other person felt used from my nie husband as she was an ex turned friend with benefits and hoped to get closer to him again but he choose to marry me and have a child together ( without letting her know) she found out through social media. I know that when she found out they weren’t speaking already and she didn’t even got back at him to ask for an explanation. I know this because she told me and wh confirmed.

I suspect that sometimes when the AP feels used and hurt and has no intention to go on in the relationship would tell the truth, without the need of threatening then. Which and proofs could be faked easily by the way, with the quantity of digital data involved in affairs nowadays. I don’t care much about debasing myself if the other option is spending more years with a person I can’t trust. Life is too short and good people deserve honesty and happiness.

Thanks for your replies.

Well, I've read of a few particularly persuasive BSs who got the AP to trust and confide. But more got the door slammed in their faces, including moi and it's pretty much the final humiliation, ESPECIALLY when the person had a relationship with you first.

 

But I also know that knowing this is the only other person on earth with the details makes the itch of wanting to know impossible to ignore. Let us know what happens if you do. Just hope you get relief.

[drifter777]

I needed to know everything but all I got was minimizing & lies. Over the years I've gotten more truths but she's still lying and I know she will never give it all up. For now, I'm still with her and just accept that I'm settling for less than I wanted and deserve.

 

And despite how it may sound, I still loved him deeply and was broken-hearted at having hurt him and I wanted to do what I could to make it better.

 

Quick TJ - How can you - or any WS - say that you still love your BS even though they decided to cheat on him/her? Yeah, I understand that you can form the words and push them out of your mouth - but what do you mean when you say "love"? I doubt very much I would agree with your definition because a person cannot truly love someone and then betray them by infidelity. I can accept that you want to stay married to him for some reason. I can also accept that you are sorry that you hurt him. But love? Come on...

Edited November 9, 2017 by drifter777

[elaine567]

The trouble with an affair and its aftermath for the BS is that the participants are not idiots, intellectually challenged, mentally deranged or young, naive children, they are fully fledged adults, with normal/high intelligence, who know exactly what they did/are doing.

 

The WS once caught can easily then figure out sneakier ways to further deceive or they will collude with the OW/OM to lie and misdirect, and thus they can continue with the affair, or in some cases start a new one.

 

If you read the OW forum you will find that after splits, D-days, multiple D-days, chaos, hurt, heartache, anger, frustration, desperation, devastation... they can hang on in there.

Even those who felt they were used and abused by their MM and those who vow NEVER to go back and have carved out a new life, can end up being swayed by a bit of "love" and future faking and they are then totally on board again.

Even after long periods of NC, many OWs are still there "waiting" and as soon as the MM reaches out again, she may be putty in his hands...

An affair appears to be a very oowerful drug.

 

IF he has something she wants, sometimes she will put up with almost anything to stay in the game...

[Timshel]

The trouble with an affair and its aftermath for the BS is that the participants are not idiots, intellectually challenged, mentally deranged or young, naive children, they are fully fledged adults, with normal/high intelligence, who know exactly what they did/are doing.

 

The WS once caught can easily then figure out sneakier ways to further deceive or they will collude with the OW/OM to lie and misdirect, and thus they can continue with the affair, or in some cases start a new one.

 

If you read the OW forum you will find that after splits, D-days, multiple D-days, chaos, hurt, heartache, anger, frustration, desperation, devastation... they can hang on in there.

Even those who felt they were used and abused by their MM and those who vow NEVER to go back and have carved out a new life, can end up being swayed by a bit of "love" and future faking and they are then totally on board again.

Even after long periods of NC, many OWs are still there "waiting" and as soon as the MM reaches out again, she may be putty in his hands...

An affair appears to be a very oowerful drug.

 

IF he has something she wants, sometimes she will put up with almost anything to stay in the game...

 

I beg to differ with the bolded portion. That is the very crux of the dilemma.

 

OP, you seem to be more clear every day. I wish you very well.

[Müun]

I beg to differ with the bolded portion. That is the very crux of the dilemma.

 

OP, you seem to be more clear every day. I wish you very well.

 

I am, I have decided to contact the other involved part and find out her version of things. I simply don’t want to bring my doubts with me to the new year.

Life is complicated enough trying to get over infidelity, I don’t want to have this thoughts recurring every once in a while and making me wonder for years. I want to be the person I used to be. With or without him.

Messages have been prepared already, I keep crafting them waiting for the right moment to send them. By right moment I mean when I have a tiny bit less responsibilities at work and know I will not have to be alone with my child. If he lied again I will need my energy for myself and I don’t want to **** up things at work or neglect my child.thank you.

[road]

I am, I have decided to contact the other involved part and find out her version of things. I simply don’t want to bring my doubts with me to the new year.

Life is complicated enough trying to get over infidelity, I don’t want to have this thoughts recurring every once in a while and making me wonder for years. I want to be the person I used to be. With or without him.

Messages have been prepared already, I keep crafting them waiting for the right moment to send them. By right moment I mean when I have a tiny bit less responsibilities at work and know I will not have to be alone with my child. If he lied again I will need my energy for myself and I don’t want to **** up things at work or neglect my child.thank you.

 

It is very rare when an AP does not lie to the BS. Ninety nine

point nine percent of the time the AP will lie.

 

Why do you think in your case that your WS's, AP will be in the point zero one percent and tell you the truth?

 

I caution you to not talk to the AP.

 

You want truth get your WS to take a polygraph test instead.

[Müun]

And they may turn out wrong too. That’s what I know.

It is very rare when an AP does not lie to the BS. Ninety nine

point nine percent of the time the AP will lie.

 

Why do you think in your case that your WS's, AP will be in the point zero one percent and tell you the truth?

 

I caution you to not talk to the AP.

 

You want truth get your WS to take a polygraph test instead.

[Müun]

This is going to be difficult to explain, it difficult to understand for me too but anyway I am digressing. I wrote to the two women my husband was involved with. The one who he said he was only chatting/sexting with replied that she didn’t want to give me any information because what happens between her and another person is only her business and because any answer she will give will not change anything. It needs to be my choice to believe him and forgive him. Also was really funny how she is pissed at me for reading the texts and violating her privacy. Anyway no luck, I had a couple of hours of complete confusion then I realized that If someone didn’t have a problem disrespecting me in the first place would not have a problem creating more conflict in our relationship, instead of taking the opportunity to redeem herself she had to make it about how unfair it is that most of our common friends think that she’s a bad person now and that she doesn’t feel free to get in our city and get close to our area ( she lives 7 hours away by car)

 

The other one, which was the ex that was still fwb for a couple of months ( he said that they met twice but keep sexting) when we met never replied to me to confirm or contradict his version of things. I feel so defeated and I have no idea what to turn to in order to know what the **** really happened here. He looks honest but maybe is only my desire to believe I didn’t get married to a complete stranger/son of a bitch. Any suggestions?

[merrmeade]

This is going to be difficult to explain, it difficult to understand for me too but anyway I am digressing. I wrote to the two women my husband was involved with. The one who he said he was only chatting/sexting with replied that she didn’t want to give me any information because what happens between her and another person is only her business and because any answer she will give will not change anything. It needs to be my choice to believe him and forgive him. Also was really funny how she is pissed at me for reading the texts and violating her privacy. Anyway no luck, I had a couple of hours of complete confusion then I realized that If someone didn’t have a problem disrespecting me in the first place would not have a problem creating more conflict in our relationship, instead of taking the opportunity to redeem herself she had to make it about how unfair it is that most of our common friends think that she’s a bad person now and that she doesn’t feel free to get in our city and get close to our area ( she lives 7 hours away by car)

 

The other one, which was the ex that was still fwb for a couple of months ( he said that they met twice but keep sexting) when we met never replied to me to confirm or contradict his version of things. I feel so defeated and I have no idea what to turn to in order to know what the **** really happened here. He looks honest but maybe is only my desire to believe I didn’t get married to a complete stranger/son of a bitch. Any suggestions?

Ummmm, did I just think it? Dream it maybe? Or didn't several of us try to tell her this would very likely happen? Anyway, I and others have tried to explain this to several OPs in the last couple of months and feel sure enough that I'm not going to check that we said this here: The OW/M is not now or ever could be YOUR friend. S/he was never on your side and has no reason to be except maybe to get back at your WS. Not fussing at you, just saying, well, what else is there but - told you so.

 

But I am sorry. It truly sucks. I know because I did it, too. Had every reason to think this person, my sister-in-law after all, would be a LITTLE open and truthful for my brother's sake? My mother's? Our history? But nope. Protecting my husband was her No. 1 priority and the rest of us could go to hell. Shudder! I'd have to spend eternity with her.

[elaine567]

Am I surprised?

Um...no.

 

The only loyalty the AP will have is to herself and the WS.

As I said previously you are the enemy, the competition, why would she help you?

Why would she put herself on the line for you?

You are nothing to her and in the case of the ex, she may blame you for splitting them up, the reason they are not living happily ever after...

 

As I also said before, pack your child up and go home to the UK, this is seriously messed up.

[merrmeade]

Correction: For myself at least, the warning should have been stronger. All I said was - well, one BS here was able to get the OW to talk - which creates hope where there was never really any.

 

Sorry you had to go through that, but now you know.

[Müun]

Nothing changed in the end, I only have the confirmation she’s a bad person. I believe that in both cases the two women felt used as he never upgraded one from the role of disposable entertainment to girlfriend and the other one, the ex, was hoping to keep him through sex but he left the country with me instead and we had a child. This still sucks, even if in their eyes I was the one chosen as the official partner. But I get your point and you were all right. I thought to use some dirty trick like saying that I had screenshots of the conversations and porny pictures but I decided not to, really confiding once again that people can make mistakes but would do better given another chance. I was very wrong indeed. By the way my family is not in the uk. My family is in a small town in Italy and I could never have a job there. So moving somewhere because I could have a support group is unfortunately out of the question. My support group is my husband i’m Afraid and myself of course. Thanks for your words.

[afoolto no end]

I know you feel the need to know, but at this point without a polygraph you can't ever be sure, you know cheaters can lie to protect themselves.

If you can try to just look at the positives and see if your husband is transparent, thinks the right way and shows you he is remorseful and a safe husband and go from there.

My therapist said to me once can you trust "until" if nothing happens again and time passes and nothing shows you he has gone off the rails, you can give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe not trust 100% I think that is a mistake anyway.

We as BS's may never get the truth, and I too drove myself crazy wondering, then I realized I can't control him all I can do is be a person I can respect and if he crosses the line again, we would be over, you get one chance.

Making sense of the thinking the why's the type of people others chose to be is a waste of your own life.....it makes no sense to people who just wouldn't have an affair.

From now on you have your best interests at heart at all times. You are the only one you can really depend on and trust.

This is our reality check as well, life wasn't how we thought it was.

I thought to myself that a betrayal could happen with someone else too. there are no guarantees in life.

It changes us, when we had no choice in any of it. Get back to the best you, you can be. Trust "Until" you have seen you can.

good luck

I'm sorry your feeling down, but don't let someone else's choices do this to you. They win that way.

[sdraw108]

I am a wayward spouse so apologies in advance if I am not welcome here. But I wanted to share my perspective as I think it could be helpful. In my case, once my husband found out about the affair, I was terrified of losing him and terrified of facing the consequences of my actions. So I tried to minimize and cover up everything possible, even though he was begging me to just tell him everything. I think that is an extremely common reaction and I'm sure it's what your husband is doing too. I'm sure there is a lot about his affair that you don't know - I'm sorry.

 

In my case, I only realized that I could fully be honest when I felt like THERE WAS NOTHING LEFT TO LOSE. He had said he wanted to split up and was going to file for divorce, but was still treating me very graciously. Only then did I realize that I had hit rock bottom and that I couldn't talk my way out of anything anymore. And despite how it may sound, I still loved him deeply and was broken-hearted at having hurt him and I wanted to do what I could to make it better. So I told him everything, and it was a relief for both of us. But it took getting shaken out of my "cover your ass, protect your marriage from consequences at all costs" mentality by knowing all was lost already.

 

I would file for divorce. It takes several months to go through anyway, and you could always withdraw it or put it on hold if he begins to be honest with you. That was the only thing that made me be honest - knowing I had nothing more to lose. Good luck xox

 

Thank you for your perspective, and it is useful to hear this from "the other side". I hope you won't be offended but I think this needs to be said. This kind of attitude basically says that you are selfish, and the relationship is not a two way street. You didn't end up eventually telling your husband because you care about him and the fact that he really wanted the truth. You eventually told him because it reached the point where it served your interests to do so. It's not really "honesty" when you only do it because you feel you have no choice.

 

I think that for a relationship to be worth salvaging after cheating, there has to at a minimum be mutual respect and consideration for one another's feelings, going forward.

[merrmeade]

So I looked back at your other threads and started wondering some things about your husband.

 

So you're from the UK but living in Spain, married two years with a 1-year-old. Your parents are living in Italy (as ex-pats, I assume?). Is your husband a Spaniard? Are you living in an urban setting? I know lifestyle, values, attitudes are more conservative outside madrid or barcelona and there can be a double standard for men and women.

 

Do you feel like there are any cultural attitudes and practices that make this harder for you? For example, the fact that lie detector tests are hard to find in Spain. Why is that? And what about the language factor? For example, the therapist. Are you doing counseling in a second language? Do you feel like you're getting as much out of it? Do you feel isolated? Have you made friends? I would think that being a foreign spouse that's been cheated on exacerbates the feelings of isolation in general.

 

Just my thoughts...

Edited November 20, 2017 by merrmeade

[Müun]

No I am Italian but i’ve Lived in the uk for a few years and things were pretty good there for my career. That’s where i’ E met my husband.

We moved here because he wanted to be closer to part of his family and his sorry, toxic messed up friends. They’re nice people but they’re completely **** up and doing nothing with their lives.

 

Yes I feel very isolated, my Spanish is not good and I work in an international company in a big city. The cultural shock was big when we moved here. I’ve suffered from having to face a lot of the issues I had to live Italy for and I wouldn’t go back there. Finding a good consuelor that speaks good English is not easy at all unfortunately and that’s not helping. I have tried one but the lady was 1) not understanding everything I said and/or not really listening and suggested I swipe everything under the carpet and really forgive and forget to give a chance to this marriage which can make sense for some but for my personality, being a very rational person, doesn’t really work. Yes I feel very very much isolated and like my only support system are his friends not mine. They support him and even if they love me and I can see that it’s not the same as having your family or your own friends. This said my only other option would be to go back to the uk or any other European country where I can get paid well enough to support myself and my own child and manage to have a life that is not so miserable ( meaning also being able to pay for a nanny every ocr in a while to have some adult life). Not an easy choice. This would also mean leaving my husband at his own devices as he’s just started a business and can’t even support himself financially at the moment, and of course I will otherwise divorce him to support myself the child and him separately. I can’t afford it with the salary I have here and I don’t even want to have to support the man who ****ed up his own family and marriage. Doesn’t sound fair. I feel also bad doing as he’s still the father of my child and I don’t want him to live on a friends coach or on the street. Call me stupid but I still want to act like a human.

 

So I looked back at your other threads and started wondering some things about your husband.

 

So you're from the UK but living in Spain, married two years with a 1-year-old. Your parents are living in Italy (as ex-pats, I assume?). Is your husband a Spaniard? Are you living in an urban setting? I know lifestyle, values, attitudes are more conservative outside madrid or barcelona and there can be a double standard for men and women.

 

Do you feel like there are any cultural attitudes and practices that make this harder for you? For example, the fact that lie detector tests are hard to find in Spain. Why is that? And what about the language factor? For example, the therapist. Are you doing counseling in a second language? Do you feel like you're getting as much out of it? Do you feel isolated? Have you made friends? I would think that being a foreign spouse that's been cheated on exacerbates the feelings of isolation in general.

 

Just my thoughts...