Sustained changes in the thinking and world view of the cheater in reconciliation

[norudder]

I was a WS. I have had a fundamental shift in my views. This has changed not only how I interact in romantic relationships with a partner but with the world in general. I had no understanding of boundaries and their importance and the impact my behavior had on so many others. I see how this change is essential to a reconciliation. It cant just be a statement of "I'll never do THAT again." There has to be deep introspection as to how it happened in the first place and WHY it wouldn't happen again.

 

When I was still talking w exmm I could sense the divide growing as I got healthier and he wasnt "getting it". I knew even if he did divorce and wanted to be with me he would likely cheat again because his mentality hadn't changed. He would spin it as "fate" or simulates instead of individual choices to be accountable for and behavior/value alignment.

 

I haven't dated in almost a year (divorced now a couple years) but when I did or if I do again I look for those who share my views now and its been surprising how quickly I can tell who is more like how I used to be, and Im not interested.

[understand50]

Merrmeade,

 

So the question still is, "What can you change, or do to bring about a better life" Your husband will not be the agent of change, you will have to be. What is your path going forward? What can you do to change your situation? I am not talking divorce. Can there be other things you can do to change this? We are only in control of yourself. We can only change ourselves, and by doing so, change the way our loved ones react with us. Think about it, you husbands cheating changed your marriage and family in a negative way. What can you do to change to a positive way in your life and marriage?

 

I wish you luck........

[norudder]

Just wanted to add Im sorry you are in this position. That was a really insightful article IMO.

You already mentioned seeing the issue goes deeper than cheating and manifests in many other small ways because its part of personality. Others said and I agree its unfortunately not something you can control, force or teach. Only observe. He has to be the one.

I heard once that true psychological change is only possible with deep loss and pain. I hope your H wakes up and starts to "get it" in demonstrable way that reassure you.

I don't know how you can show someone the importance of honesty respect and intimacy in a way they will internalize those values if they don't already, in the case of WS. Or face living in a partnership without those values being shared, for a BS.

 

I wish for your reserves of strength and that you find support to either endure a marriage without reconciliation if that is the result and your choice, or to make a new path forward. It is a loss to be grieved either way, even if you don't divorce. So sorry. hope you get some other valuable insights.

[merrmeade]

... understanding a cheaters mindset any better than a cheater would?

 

And if a person is a mad hatter.. why wouldn't they have a much better insight?

Just to add to this - It's a question of objectivity, but, generally speaking, I've always understood that having an emotional and or mental problem crushes the ability to have insight, objectivity or clarity about oneself. Therefore, no, the mad hatter probably does not understand himself or have better insight into his own mindset or motives than someone else who knows him because - he is mad.

 

But my question was whether some cheaters do, in fact, learn the lesson, synthesize and apply what they learned onto other areas of their lives. Does he see when he is bending rules; hiding or changing information; making excuses and blaming others to justify mistakes or bad choices IN OTHER AREAS of his life? Precisely because he is a cheater, he deludes himself and should have the humility to recognize that he may not know when he's being dishonest with others - or himself.

[merrmeade]

I was a WS. I have had a fundamental shift in my views. This has changed not only how I interact in romantic relationships with a partner but with the world in general. I had no understanding of boundaries and their importance and the impact my behavior had on so many others. I see how this change is essential to a reconciliation. It cant just be a statement of "I'll never do THAT again." There has to be deep introspection as to how it happened in the first place and WHY it wouldn't happen again.

 

When I was still talking w exmm I could sense the divide growing as I got healthier and he wasnt "getting it". I knew even if he did divorce and wanted to be with me he would likely cheat again because his mentality hadn't changed. He would spin it as "fate" or simulates instead of individual choices to be accountable for and behavior/value alignment.

 

I haven't dated in almost a year (divorced now a couple years) but when I did or if I do again I look for those who share my views now and its been surprising how quickly I can tell who is more like how I used to be, and Im not interested.

How were able to change? Did you have therapy?

[merrmeade]

Merrmeade,

 

So the question still is, "What can you change, or do to bring about a better life" Your husband will not be the agent of change, you will have to be. What is your path going forward? What can you do to change your situation? I am not talking divorce. Can there be other things you can do to change this? We are only in control of yourself. We can only change ourselves, and by doing so, change the way our loved ones react with us. Think about it, you husbands cheating changed your marriage and family in a negative way. What can you do to change to a positive way in your life and marriage?

 

I wish you luck........

Yes, this is really the only way to happiness and truth.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Understand50, good point. Do you have any suggestions in mind? I think most BS would benefit from the line of thinking and action that you propose. Regards.

[understand50]

Hi Understand50, good point. Do you have any suggestions in mind? I think most BS would benefit from the line of thinking and action that you propose. Regards.

 

The only thing I would suggest, is a set time to talk things over each month. One hour or two. Some time that is set aside to "work" on things, but there are rule.

 

One: Things stay in the talk. IE, if it is brought up in the talk, it can only be addressed by the next agreed to talk. This allows both sides to think, and takes some of the anger out.

 

Two: try and make the talk time a safe place where the other can grow and see things your way. Think about it. How can they both come to a place where they can discuss things, and know the other will not use it against them? This is real hard, and is a learned behaovor.

 

Three: Remember your goals, figure out what you need and want then work towards them. Small steps over time, can take you a great distance .

 

Four: Never stop working on your marriage. Goals will change, time will change you both, but loving and being with each other will not.

 

Luck....

[norudder]

How were able to change? Did you have therapy?

 

I dont know that answering will help, I wish it could, that I could give a "how to" for ws/self centered people in general. But, yes, therapy. I had to hit the proverbial rock bottom. That deep loss and emotional pain came from breaking apart my family and having little external support. I felt very alone and lost (without a rudder) and questioning my worth as person for my actions, how far back did it go? when did it start? how deep? was I irredeemably broken? I was not mentally/emotionally well. True evaluation of what kind of person I wanted to be, what decisions I wanted to make about what value my life in this world would have and seeing its the connections with others that give meaning and purpose. I wanted to learn more about healthy relationships, boundaries, to create those connections so I did and started to be more conscious of giving in the ways I could to others. Little things too, punctuality became more important to me and modeling that for my kids as showing respect and consideration is an example of behavior modification beyond cheating- a different symptom coming from the same place. It comes down to that mostly, respect and consideration.

 

Maybe those realizations would have come without divorce through the turmoil within and manifesting in my marriage, maybe not. It was hard and I do now realize when I'm tempted to be lazy or sloppy in my thinking, dancing with self delusions, and simply pull myself back in line and make the higher level decisions. It might not come as naturally as for others but it gets more and more so and at least I have the self awareness now. A lot of similarities to the process people in AA go through. I even made amends to several people, but I wasnt following the "steps" or anything. It was just the right thing to do.

 

Something for your H has to change. Maybe just by you changing yourself, by taking care of what you need to in life, staying married, but not relying on the marriage, will create a dynamic for other changes. I'm sorry if I missed it elsewhere but if you're not against therapy it might be helpful not necessarily because you need it, but sometimes they have suggestions for one sided influence.

 

I respect and admire your approach to an emotionally heightened situation and think it shows not just intellect for the analytical aspect but compassion and generosity for even considering the possibility. I wish you the best as you find your path forward!

[ladydesigner]

Maybe just by you changing yourself, by taking care of what you need to in life, staying married, but not relying on the marriage, will create a dynamic for other changes.

 

Thanks for sharing your progress norudder it's nice to hear a positive story about the recovery of a WS. My WS unfortunately does not have your kind of introspect or has not hit his proverbial rock bottom, but I decided to change myself, my thinking, and not rely on my marriage anymore and this has made a world of difference for me!