This article totally nailed it: Why are good men so hard to find?

[Springsummer]

I don't buy that all men just want casual, meaningless sex with lots of women indefinitely. Maybe at a certain point in his life. Particularly if he's under 25. But most men eventually do want to find a meaningful connection with one woman that they care for. It's human to want to bond.

 

& I just losthe that argument that analogizes women with cows. Why is that even popular

 

No one said ALL men. It's just a generalization and social trend.

[Springsummer]

how cheap sex is? How available women are?

 

I copied a paragraph I saw on a guy's OLD profile:

 

"Too many cheap dirty people out there. I want a woman who knows her value and doesn't give herself away cheaply to just anyone. I am not expecting much from this site as my cousin (person who convinced me to give it a try) uses it as his own personal little black book. Sadly..hearing him (Andre) talk about it..many of you have been his one night stands. He is very tall, built and good looking. Similar to me but a few inches taller. If this sounds like someone you met on here..please do not message me. "

[Springsummer]

I swear, the hyper hairy feminists and RedPill MGTOW'ers are ruining dating for everyone else. They should just buy their own unhappy islands stocked with porn and Diva cups and leave the rest of us alone.

 

Hate to say this, but I do think you are arrogant and condescending.

 

I think you don't even really read the article and try to see others' point of views. where does the article gives you the impression that the writer and author are even feminists? On the contrary, the writer seems to indicate that "feminist" is the undoing of women.

 

what makes you think you are more representative of the general population than the authors? where is this condescending attitude coming from? have you lived many cities and know lots of women and men?

 

In my city, which is a government town, there are more women than men. I just checked the RSVPs of a single social event. over 80% are women, and many of them look quite pretty, while men are few and fewer still are good looking men.

 

granted, if you live in a coal mile, or military towns, etc.. there are certainly more men than women, I am sure you are wanted as long as you are a woman.

[Chilli]

l'm moving to your town

[Popsicle]

 

I copied a paragraph I saw on a guy's OLD profile:

 

"Too many cheap dirty people out there. I want a woman who knows her value and doesn't give herself away cheaply to just anyone. I am not expecting much from this site as my cousin (person who convinced me to give it a try) uses it as his own personal little black book. Sadly..hearing him (Andre) talk about it..many of you have been his one night stands. He is very tall, built and good looking. Similar to me but a few inches taller. If this sounds like someone you met on here..please do not message me. "

 

I can't believe people write profiles like this. I've seen it too often. Here is your one shining moment and this is the best you have to say?

[Shining One]

why would a man work hard and cherish a woman, who used to easily jump to the beds of other men? he is not her one and only.

I cherish women for things other than a vagina with low mileage on it.

[ZayKayWill]

Funny because I feel quite the opposite. With how easy it is for girls to meet new guys, finding a good guy shouldn't be hard at all. Us guys will even get lucky to get a 1/10 chance of any girl talking to us so I figure the opposite is true. But of course that is just me.

[AMarriedMan]

Funny because I feel quite the opposite. With how easy it is for girls to meet new guys, finding a good guy shouldn't be hard at all. Us guys will even get lucky to get a 1/10 chance of any girl talking to us so I figure the opposite is true. But of course that is just me.

 

No, it's not just you. It is difficult to find a girl online for a large majority of guys. There's a reason for that. Online, you are facing massive competition as a guy. Unless you have exceptional looks or fame to help you stand out in a positive way, you're toast. Social rank not part of the equation for girls and most young women look perfectly acceptable for the large majority of men. That's why you'll be at a serious disadvantage relative to your female counterpart if you're an average male.

 

It is somewhat different in real life. If you talk to girls wherever you meet them in real life, you won't be an abstract entity but a real human being and there won't be a swarm of other guys trying to hit on them at the same time. Their appraisal of their own value will be more realistic and you'll have a better chance at connecting on a personal level. You'll still be at a disadvantage in terms of what you bring to the table just by being you. (*) You'll have to bridge the gap by providing resources. Unfortunately, when you're young and at your horniest, the only resource you will have at your disposal is how "cool" you are in your local social group (your looks are mostly unaffected by lifestyle choices at that stage and largely beyond your control). That results in attractiveness to women being more unevenly distributed among guys than in later stages of life.

 

*) A man's confidence is a major factor in how attractive women find him. I'd venture to guess that women have evolved to respond to subtle signs of confidence in a man's behavior because, most of the time, confidence will give away a man's social rank and, and most importantly, his potential social rank quickly. This explains why there exist men who are very successful with women but who are objectively worthless. There are psychopathologies where one of the symptoms is an inflated sense of self-worth. If you are a normal man, tricks to boost your self-confidence will help somewhat but it is normally very difficult to maintain a level of confidence clearly inconsistent with reality for long.

Edited September 27, 2017 by AMarriedMan

[AMarriedMan]

No. Not since I fell pregnant on the Pill in my early 20s.

 

Ok. You wrote you keep encountering men who want a relationship when you only want to casual sex. I read somewhere that hormonal contraception has a tendency to mess with some women's mate selection by causing them to go after nice guys for casual sex and players for serious relationships. That is clearly not the case here.

 

See: Nice guys finish first? » Scienceline

 

What you've experienced suggests me is that you could go for somewhat more attractive men if you want casual sex. You could have better sex and fewer unrequited contact attempts afterwards. Be careful not to fall for them, though.

[umirano]

As long as we do not have any reliable data on which gender is less satisfied with dating outcomes and which gender spends more time and resources on achieving satisfactory dating outcomes, claiming it's harder for one particular gender is pure speculation. Probably it's even less than that: simply a personal rant informed by one's own subjective experience.

[CptInsano]

As long as we do not have any reliable data on which gender is less satisfied with dating outcomes and which gender spends more time and resources on achieving satisfactory dating outcomes, claiming it's harder for one particular gender is pure speculation. Probably it's even less than that: simply a personal rant informed by one's own subjective experience.

 

Keeping in mind that age, location, and the expectations of the individual will result in vastly different outcomes, I'm not even sure that such a comparison would even be all that meaningful.

[Chilli]

Personally lthink it's pretty even , where one's ahead next thing it's the other. Both got their pro's and cons.

But admittedly l can also only speak for guys l've known or talk to 40's , 50s.

So they've been married already and most don't want in again. l do know of a couple that really want something serious though. l probably would myself too once l feel better if l was to meet the right one.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Chilli

[road]

When speaking in general you can not use

specifics.

 

Such as a college where there are 6 female

students for every 1 male. Or in a state out

west or Alaska where there are 110 men

for every 100 women.

 

There will always be places that will make

finding a mate harder.

 

Though in general trends in women being

more willing to give it up now then generations

past has caused men to not seek marriage.

 

Also seeing men get taken to the cleaners

after a divorce. They got divorced but their

wallets did not. Makes men not want marriage

as much.

 

Men seeing increase in marriages having WW's

and ending in divorce has dropped the desire

to marry.

 

Today's women due to internet and OLD have

an inflated self worth in the dating market.

They refuse to accept dates from men on their

equivalent level.

 

Combined that today's women appear more

materialistic in seeking a BF or Husband then

in past generations.

 

So with some men being able to get free sex they

do not want to commit or marry. No need to.

 

This same group is the group that women want

to marry. Why buy the cow when they get the milk

for free?

 

They are chasing after the men that do not need

or want to commit.

 

The men that are willing to not just buy the milk (date)

they are willing to buy the cow (marriage), damn the whole

dairy farm (family and kids) . But the women won't even

sell them enough milk to wet their lips.

 

Combine marriages seen not as stable as generations

past. Financial risks now and for retirement. Women

giving it up too easy. Overinflated sense of self worth

keeping women from dating on their own level and

being more materialistic. Along with average men being

rejected in larger numbers is keeping people apart.

 

It is not one issue but many connected issues.

[CptInsano]

In my city, which is a government town, there are more women than men. I just checked the RSVPs of a single social event. over 80% are women, and many of them look quite pretty, while men are few and fewer still are good looking men.

 

Sorry, using a single social as a reference assumes that single men would enjoy them. I've never been to one in my entire life. Therefore I am not surprised that women would largely outnumber men. I won't comment on the looks, it's just too subjective.

 

But if you are in your twenties or early thirties, live in a larger city on the east coast and are looking for a college graduate, then yes, the numbers are stacked against you. You could move to San Francisco or Columbus, Ohio and have a much easier time finding a college grad. Or you can decide to date a guy without a degree, as some of my friends have done.

[knabe]

No, I'm not that guy. You're confusing me with someone else. And I've never declared myself to be traditional or non-traditional here.

 

Sorry about that. I was confusing you with someone who used that strategy to get his wife to have sex.

[knabe]

Hate to say this, but I do think you are arrogant and condescending.

 

I think you don't even really read the article and try to see others' point of views. where does the article gives you the impression that the writer and author are even feminists? On the contrary, the writer seems to indicate that "feminist" is the undoing of women.

 

what makes you think you are more representative of the general population than the authors? where is this condescending attitude coming from? have you lived many cities and know lots of women and men?

 

In my city, which is a government town, there are more women than men. I just checked the RSVPs of a single social event. over 80% are women, and many of them look quite pretty, while men are few and fewer still are good looking men.

 

granted, if you live in a coal mile, or military towns, etc.. there are certainly more men than women, I am sure you are wanted as long as you are a woman.

 

Based ion this post, I'd say we have a lot in common

 

I will say this though. I think a woman who treats having sex as casually as ordering a pizza shouldn't be surprised when a lot of good men pass her over when they get ready to look for a wife or long term SO. The double standard may not be fair, but it is reality. And when it comes to reality, you can deny it and rail against it, or you can work within it.

 

I actually had some blogger woman tell me that I was "dangerous" because I was a virgin until I married. That valuing virginity was oppressive and made women into chattel and that virginity as a virtue should be abolished. This was in response to an article that taught 11 year olds about anal sex.

 

 

Yeah...she was a little twisted.

Edited September 27, 2017 by knabe

[thefooloftheyear]

I think we are still in the infancy really of women being fully independent of men...I mean, even in the 80's and early 90's it still was kind of important for a guy to know going in, that his potential wife was probably going to rely on him financially...moreso if kids came along...

 

Now we have a dynamic where a guy doesn't really have all that pressure..Sure, there are some women who aspire to be SAHM's and don't want all the stuff that a working woman has to deal with, but they are becoming increasingly scarce...And finding a man willing to carry that load is now also becoming rare as well..

 

As someone that has seen this transformation among men over the years(I have had a male dominated workforce for decades now), its been interesting...It used to be that a typical guy valued his job tremendously and knew he couldn't risk the potential fallout from being let go or their skills being not up to par...Now it's quite different...These guys don't care all that much, and if they don't become the "be all and end all"l, they have their wives/gf's to carry them..Many of these guys have no problem hanging around the house not doing too much and letting the women carry them...

 

Its all good if everyone knows their role, but it seems like women don't want that type of guy...they'll settle for it, but its usually not desirable for them..

 

I expect the trend to continue.. I have some women I deal with daily in business I rely on and they are more efficient and competent than most guys..Its my belief that women will continue ascending the ladder, outpacing guys and who knows where it goes...And just think of this aspect...Behavioral disorders like autism are FAR more common among men than women-especially in the last few decades..If that continues, what will become of those guys?? They probably wont ever be the type of dream man that most women want..

 

So add all this to the aspect of readily available sex, low pressure and the lack of men to even need or want to do all of the things their fathers or grandfathers did, then I foresee a more difficult time ahead, relationship wise...maybe it will all shake out and men will begin to be feminized to the point of being what the traditional woman's role entailed in past years...I really don't know..

 

It's an interesting discussion...I'd like to hear from some of the frustrated ladies as to what the problem is in their opinion..

 

TFY

[knabe]

As someone that has seen this transformation among men over the years(I have had a male dominated workforce for decades now), its been interesting...It used to be that a typical guy valued his job tremendously and knew he couldn't risk the potential fallout from being let go or their skills being not up to par...Now it's quite different...These guys don't care all that much, and if they don't become the "be all and end all"l, they have their wives/gf's to carry them..Many of these guys have no problem hanging around the house not doing too much and letting the women carry them...

 

Its all good if everyone knows their role, but it seems like women don't want that type of guy...they'll settle for it, but its usually not desirable for them..

 

Very astute. As evolved as we say we are, most of the women I know (and when you take into account all the places I have lived and the internet, that is a lot) don't have much respect for a man with no ambition who has a list of excuses instead of opportunities. It's not about wanting a meal ticket - it's about laziness. Because let's get real. Men who are content to sit around, work a dead-end job, and let the women do the heavy lifting are lazy. And yes, I'd say the same about a woman who is a SAHM mom but keeps the house a pig sty and hands the kids off to daddy the moment he gets home.

 

I spent a lot of years with a man who did the bare minimum when he had a job and played computer games instead of look for one when he didn't. My respect for him was G-O-N-E years before I actually had enough and divorced.

 

Of course, when we helicopter our kids, solve every problem for them, and go curse out the teacher every time junior doesn't make an A or make the team....we are raising a generation that has no option but to turn out lazy and helpless.

[cocorico]

Ok. You wrote you keep encountering men who want a relationship when you only want to casual sex.

 

Nope - I wrote that that was the case in my 30s, even into my 40s. Fortunately we don’t all stay in one place forever. As I’ve gotten older, my circumstances, interests and desires have changed. I’m now very happily married.

 

What you've experienced suggests me is that you could go for somewhat more attractive men if you want casual sex. You could have better sex and fewer unrequited contact attempts afterwards. Be careful not to fall for them, though.

 

Oh believe me, these guys were plenty attractive. They weren’t players though - I have no interest in being a masturbation aid - which might be what you’re suggesting I should have targeted? These guys were probably just at the wrong point in their lives, though - having spent time studying, establishing themselves in their careers and getting to a point where they had climbed high enough up their career ladders that they could kick back a little, they were probably ripe for picket fence hormonal surges, and good sex triggering oxytocin probably fed right into that. Still, it did give me a chance to check out the field really well, so that when I did decide to settle down, I was pretty clear on what I wanted.

[basil67]

In my city, which is a government town, there are more women than men. I just checked the RSVPs of a single social event. over 80% are women, and many of them look quite pretty, while men are few and fewer still are good looking men.

 

And here's another elephant in the room. Looks.

 

Any woman who's initial judgement of a man is his appearance has no business complaining about not being able to find a good man.

[AMarriedMan]

Oh believe me, these guys were plenty attractive. They weren’t players though - I have no interest in being a masturbation aid - which might be what you’re suggesting I should have targeted?

 

Players, masturbation aids ... what are talking about? Are you calling guys who want casual sex players? Isn't that a little hypocritical as casual sex was precisely what you were after at that time?

 

These guys were probably just at the wrong point in their lives, though - having spent time studying, establishing themselves in their careers and getting to a point where they had climbed high enough up their career ladders that they could kick back a little, they were probably ripe for picket fence hormonal surges, and good sex triggering oxytocin probably fed right into that. Still, it did give me a chance to check out the field really well, so that when I did decide to settle down, I was pretty clear on what I wanted.

 

I thought you were looking for sex for the sake of sex and not going for the husband type to test the waters.

[GoodOnPaper]

I thought you were looking for sex for the sake of sex and not going for the husband type to test the waters.

 

You forget that the first filter for deciding if a man is husband material now seems to be whether or not he can attract lots of casual sex partners.

[AMarriedMan]

I think we are still in the infancy really of women being fully independent of men...I mean, even in the 80's and early 90's it still was kind of important for a guy to know going in, that his potential wife was probably going to rely on him financially...moreso if kids came along...

 

Now we have a dynamic where a guy doesn't really have all that pressure..Sure, there are some women who aspire to be SAHM's and don't want all the stuff that a working woman has to deal with, but they are becoming increasingly scarce...And finding a man willing to carry that load is now also becoming rare as well..

 

Correct.

 

 

As someone that has seen this transformation among men over the years(I have had a male dominated workforce for decades now), its been interesting...It used to be that a typical guy valued his job tremendously and knew he couldn't risk the potential fallout from being let go or their skills being not up to par...Now it's quite different...These guys don't care all that much, and if they don't become the "be all and end all"l, they have their wives/gf's to carry them..Many of these guys have no problem hanging around the house not doing too much and letting the women carry them...

 

Is this really commonplace? It seems to me that, more commonly, rather than women assuming some of the roles of men, fewer and fewer people are getting married. I'm not denying your observations, though.

 

(I would never want to burden a woman with supporting me financially. I feel I'd rather sleep in a cardboard box, although that might change if I actually had to sleep in one.)

 

Its all good if everyone knows their role, but it seems like women don't want that type of guy...they'll settle for it, but its usually not desirable for them..

 

Absolutely.

 

I expect the trend to continue.. I have some women I deal with daily in business I rely on and they are more efficient and competent than most guys..Its my belief that women will continue ascending the ladder, outpacing guys and who knows where it goes...

 

I think it will be impossible for the roles of women and men to completely reverse. It is still the women who give birth to children and take care of them when they're small. I don't think we're ever going to see women as a group perform at work as men have and still continue to do despite all the changes.

Women will never be able to do *everything* by themselves.

 

And just think of this aspect...Behavioral disorders like autism are FAR more common among men than women-especially in the last few decades..If that continues, what will become of those guys?? They probably wont ever be the type of dream man that most women want..

 

Here comes a politically incorrect observation, the mentioning of which got Larry Summers, the former president of Harvard fired: in addition to the over-representation among the disordered and those in the lower end of the ability spectrum, men are also over-represented in the high end of the ability spectrum. The standard deviations of men's traits of nearly every kind are greater than that those of women. This has to do with the fact that women have a pair of X chromosomes containing nearly twice the information than the XY pair found in men. It follows that at the very highest levels of human achievement men will always outnumber women.

 

So add all this to the aspect of readily available sex,

 

There is no readily available sex for the average man. There are readily available relationships without marriage.

 

low pressure and the lack of men to even need or want to do all of the things their fathers or grandfathers did, then I foresee a more difficult time ahead, relationship wise...maybe it will all shake out and men will begin to be feminized to the point of being what the traditional woman's role entailed in past years...I really don't know..

 

Fewer people in developed countries are forming families than in the recent past. The trend is even more pronounced in Japan than in the West. I live in a country touted as one of the most liberal and gender egalitarian in the world, I have a Master's degree, and my circle of friends and acquaintances is similar. I know exactly one husband who is a stay-at-home dad who has a career woman for a wife. The husbands take paternity leaves and are very involved in childcare and do other household chores along with their wives and all but one have careers.

Edited September 27, 2017 by AMarriedMan

[preraph]

The article is premised on this is the first time men have had easy access to sex. Not so. Let's not forget the 1960s and 1970s. There was very little convention attached to it either. No "bartering" for sex with provisions. Have to go back to the 50s for that. I guess what is stinging is that a new generation of women are learning that many men are happy with just sex, but it's still true that others want more. And though marriage before the 60s may have been more of a tradeoff, women work now and often can fend for themselves. But what is still true is how a man will treat a woman if he wants a real relationship with her, and that's where you can't flush thousands of years of genetic hardwiring down the toilet. If a man really cares about you and wants you to be with him, his protective and providing instincts will kick in. And women have providing instincts as well, though more directed toward their children, but certainly the family as a whole.

 

Dating apps certainly may prolong a bachelorhood if it's going well, but at some point at least some men get bored of sport hunting if they ever had any substance to them to begin with.

 

Anyway, anyone who's been on Loveshack and read a lot of it will see that people are mostly NOT successful with dating apps and are just frustrated, men and women. It all goes back to the most physically attractive or social people, no matter what decade, are who have the most choices.

 

But now, we could talk about porn and how that's enough to keep a lot of guys who are reluctant to interact going for, apparently, decades. But that's not really the pool women are wanting to swim in anyway, so....

[Springsummer]

If a man really cares about you and wants you to be with him, his protective and providing instincts will kick in. And women have providing instincts as well, though more directed toward their children, but certainly the family as a whole.

 

No doubt about that. but the hard part is it's harder for a man to care for a woman nowadays.

 

the question is: what makes a man care about a woman? not with internet and easy access to sex and a woman trying to be a man? I suppose?