I dislike how effective playing hard to get is

[Bastile]

My point is that those who intentionally play games are emotionally immature. Because they are.

 

Who can argue with such adult, grown up, logic?

 

Touche, lady!

 

They may cloak it in "playah" swagger or "princess" attitude...but the bottom line is that emotionally intelligent people do not choose to be manipulative or deceptive to hide their insecurities.

 

You are cloaking yours in "morality"...

 

It's not a "rigid code of conduct." It's just the way it is.

 

No, this is your game. And it's an exceptionally weak one.

 

And it is also almost always coupled with a disdain for the opposite sex (even though they want to get into the opposite sex's pants).

 

 

Projection

[Woggle]

My point is that those who intentionally play games are emotionally immature. Because they are. They may cloak it in "playah" swagger or "princess" attitude...but the bottom line is that emotionally intelligent people do not choose to be manipulative or deceptive to hide their insecurities. It's not a "rigid code of conduct." It's just the way it is.

 

And it is also almost always coupled with a disdain for the opposite sex (even though they want to get into the opposite sex's pants).

 

I agree. Whenever I hear people advocate game playing and trickery it is usually coming from a misogynist or misandrist. They still want to get laid but are incapable of dealing with the opposite sex as an equal human being. That is possible even if you only want a casual situation.

[Timshel]

Woh, when did this turn into a discussion about people with kids?

 

 

 

The word is MOOT. Not mute. You can't have a mute point.

 

Agree, thank you. Technically, a person can't have a 'mute' point.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Timshel

[knabe]

Who can argue with such adult, grown up, logic?

 

Touche, lady!

 

 

 

You are cloaking yours in "morality"...

 

 

 

No, this is your game. And it's an exceptionally weak one.

 

 

 

 

Projection

 

Look, I like and respect men, including my fiance. It' clear in your many posts you don't much like women. So I'm not going to convince you that any of us are good.

 

You don't have to agree that playing games is immature. And I don't have to agree it makes one's pants fuller.

 

We can agree to disagree.

[Sweetfish]

Sarcasm aside, almost 90% or the women's profiles I read state "My kids are my world and will always come first". Translation "You will always come second".

 

When I am serious about a woman SHE comes first. Even if we were to marry and have kids she would still be the priority. That's what I expect and what I am willing to give.

 

Hence, why I don't date women with kids.

 

I've heard similar complaints from women dating guys who have kids. Starting off in second (or 3rd, or 4th) place at the beginning of a relationship does not end well.

 

Not to mention all the ex husband drama and the fact they have to plan everything in advance for coverage. Nothing wrong with them, just not for me.

 

 

Spoiler...

 

Even when your married... most often you will be second:laugh:

[Bastile]

Look, I like and respect men, including my fiance. It' clear in your many posts you don't much like women. So I'm not going to convince you that any of us are good.

 

You don't have to agree that playing games is immature. And I don't have to agree it makes one's pants fuller.

 

We can agree to disagree.

 

I have a respect for women that you wouldn't even begin to understand, because it doesn't fit your rigid theories on the world (which aren't based in any sort of experience).

 

Easier to label me a "mgtow", which is mentally lazy.

 

Like I say, It's projection. I don't think you much like men, unless we act the exact way that you want. Ad-hominems are an attempt to hammer one into a very limited frame.

 

As I say, this is very simple game playing too.

 

Beware the narcissist that tells you "I never lie, and that's the truth"

[knabe]

I have a respect for women that you wouldn't even begin to understand, because it doesn't fit your rigid theories on the world (which aren't based in any sort of experience).

 

Easier to label me a "mgtow", which is mentally lazy.

 

Like I say, It's projection. I don't think you much like men, unless we act the exact way that you want. Ad-hominems are an attempt to hammer one into a very limited frame.

 

As I say, this is very simple game playing too.

 

Beware the narcissist that tells you "I never lie, and that's the truth"

 

 

Do you like cats? I think I know you.....

[Bastile]

Do you like cats? I think I know you.....

 

That's a rather weird "off topic" statement, which I believe is against the rules of the forum...

 

Behave yourself.

[Cookiesandough]

Tysm for the responses. They've all been super helpful.

 

It probably is a generational thing too. The older you are the less likely you have patience for any BS

 

Lol sweet fish... I love the way you always come into the persons thread to school them on their own psychology.

 

I agree with you that there are some people who don't like nice people. But 99% of the "nice guy" complaints I see are not really about being too nice at all. It's actually about them being too...interested. This manifests as 'nice' too because they're willing to bend over backwards they are so interested. It is a scapegoat, because in these instances the woman often doesn't have an issue with the guy opening doors for her or gushing on her beauty on the date as long as he ignores her text for hours while fishing on the dating site they met on after the date.

 

I think a lot of people who are claiming it doesn't work either aren't noticing or do it naturally, so they don't see the "game" a mechanism. These people just naturally are busy, are aloof, or play the field. In the example I used, I just lost interest. I was not doing it as game to get him to free his time for me. That was just a natural consequence of no gaf I observed and have been observing for some time.

 

But yes it can be a game. Game in the way putting on a push-up bra or lipgloss is game. Some people naturally make dating and romance a priority in their life. Or don't have endless options or extremely busy lives and they're on LoveShack a lot (coughme). So it would be beneficial for them to pretend that they don't or they do sometimes. I don't like it either, but I have to concede it works a lot of the time .

 

Sure, there are people who despise not having the person available and accommodating them at all times. But they are an extreme just as the people who want a person nearly impossible to get. Most people probably fall somewhere in the middle. And it's long been a psychological theory that people appreciate things more the harder they've had to work for them, so I do not see why that would not extend to the dating realm.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[SevenCity]

Tysm for the responses. They've all been super helpful.

 

 

Lol sweet fish... I love the way you always come into the persons thread to school them on their own psychology.

 

I agree with you that there are some people who don't like nice people. But 99% of the "nice guy" complaints I see are not really about being too nice at all. It's actually about them being too...interested. This manifests as 'nice' too because they're willing to bend over backwards they are so interested. It is a scapegoat, because in these instances the woman often doesn't have an issue with the guy opening doors for her or gushing on her beauty on the date as long as he ignores her text for hours while fishing on the dating site they met on after the date.

 

I think a lot of people who are claiming it doesn't work either aren't noticing or do it naturally, so they don't see the "game" a mechanism. These people just naturally are busy, are aloof, or play the field. In the example I used, I just lost interest. I was not doing it as game to get him to free his time for me. That was just a natural consequence of no gaf I observed and have been observing for some time.

 

But yes it can be a game. Game in the way putting on a push-up bra or lipgloss is game. It makes you more attractive. Some people naturally make dating and other people romance a priority in their life or they don't have endless options or extremely busy lives and they're on LoveShack a lot (coughme) so it would be beneficial for them to pretend that they do. I don't like it either, but I have to concede it works a lot of the time .

 

Sure, there are people who despise not having the person available and accommodating them at all times. But they are an extreme just as the people who want a person nearly impossible to get. Most people probably fall somewhere in the middle. And it's long been a psychological theory that people appreciate things more the harder they've had to work for them, so I do not see why that would not extend to the dating realm.

 

"Too nice" = "Pushover" to women without a sufficient interest level.

 

No woman left a guy because he was too nice. They left because he was weak and too accommodating. They say nice, but it's not what they mean. How often do you hear a girl gushing "My bf is such a jerk! He never opens doors and acts like he doesn't care! I love him so much!"

 

How many threads have you seen here that say "He's perfect on paper and attractive, but I'm not feeling a spark". It's likely because the guy is a pushover. When she questions one of his beliefs and he caved, he fails.

 

It's their lack of interest caused by a guy not acting like a man which turns them off. Women will often test you and not even realize they are doing it. They want you to stand your ground to prove that you are authentic. The more you fail, the more they will test. Funny thing is their feelings will change and they can't explain why.

 

I dated this girl years ago. She told me her brother was a taxidermist. My response, as an animal lover, was "That's f'ing horrible". She actually told me she respected me more for stating and sticking to my beleifs. I've had many tests through the years and passed by sticking to my truth. Not one woman left as a result.

 

Biologically women want to be protected. They don't feel safe if a guy will cave to them. Compromise on relationship issues sure, but saying red is your favorite color because that's her favorite is pleasing behavior and a turn off.

[The Urbanyst]

I will make a relationship one of my priorities, if the guy indicates he's serious about that with me. Until, that happens, I'm living my life not worrying about having a relationship even if I really, really want one. If I like him enough and he is respecting my time, being upfront about his dating goals and dating me in a way that demonstrates that, I'm all in. I will make time for him even if I'm really, really busy.

 

A guy doesn't have to jump through hoops, all he needs to do is schedule proper dates, and show that his interest is sincere and he communicates honestly and regularly.

 

I care more about my career and friends and family until I get clarity from the guy, then I care about him too.

 

I'm not going to care about a guy who doesn't know what he wants, can't be bothered to schedule proper dates, isn't consistent in his approach, doesn't keep in good touch.

 

It's not about being royalty, is about observing that there is respect and sincerity before I start rearranging my life for him.

 

Fair enough.

 

But it goes both ways. You as a woman have to show you are worth all that. You don't show it by just sitting around waiting for the guy to do all the work while you lye back in judgement lol.

[knabe]

You are probably right that it's a generational saying. Looking back I know that when I was in high school and even some in college I play the pull push back off be intrested dance game. As I mature and now that I am approaching the half century mark, I have more appreciation for honesty and maturity. So that's probably why I don't do that or date people that do that anymore.

[Steve51]

Why play hard to get? You will miss out on some wonderful guys that way. I never bothered with hard to get girls. Figured that they would be high maintenance and need constant attention and work to keep them happy. Never understood the logic or playing hard to get. Not a fan of girls who mess with guys by playing hard to get but if it works for you, have at it.

[TheFinalWord]

Anyone notice how push-pull lite /playing hard to get is like the lifeblood of achieving and sustaining chemistry for most men and women?

 

Example:

 

This guy [out of my league socially] begged me for a date. I made the mistake of just saying yes. Then he's like "I'll see if I can figure something out" i.e. work me in to his day maybe. I just said F it because it reminded me so much of my ex.

 

 

I said "Hey, sorry! I just realized I made plans [that day]. Maybe next week or sometime this month. lol "

Then all of sudden his day is free. He magically became free all day and his "practice" was moved to the next day! Isn't that the darndest thing?

 

I also noticed *I* got turned off when he freed up his day completely for me. I'm thinking this guy is a smallish local celebrity, but he's freeing up his day for me? What's wrong with him? I don't know it just turned me off a little.

 

Yes, we all know those people you can't beat off with a stick and the people who like it, but most people within your league or higher always respond positively to push-pull tactics. Hot and cold. Show you like them, then fall away.

 

 

I see this a lot even in long-term relationships. Married couples, where the wife withholds sex and affection (to a degree; there's a very delicate balance in not over doing this or they lose interest entirely) yet it's still attainable, the husband is like a dog in heat obsessed with his wife but she's often got a headache. Then on the flip-side, you have women who are like "my husband rather beat off to pron than sleep with me even though I wear sexy lingerie and beg him for sex" hmmmmmmmmm

 

 

I read time and time and time again how so and so is 'perfect' but the relationship is just too easy. And people typically refer to this as nice guy/nice girl syndrome. Except nice is a scapegoat. It's not really the nice, but that lack of challenge. I can think of 2 things going on here, though there are probably more.

 

1) Being unavailable (but not too unavailable) creates more interest by making you seem more in demand thus artificially inflating your dating market value (scarcity principle in economics)

 

2) Excitement ups interest and anxiety ups investment. As another member put it, they bond with drama. Things in the beginning are too blah, too easy, too certain, they think 'I could probably do better' and interest drops fast.

 

/rant

 

hmmm no real comment as I am just taking your thread in.

 

I always found push/pull so mentally exhausting. I always feel like I'm wasting time and don't seem to enjoy the game, which may explain why I'm single. I'd rather find someone I click with and have interesting conversations, debates, discussions. In terms of Game, It's kind of like the dog that sees the car driving by, but doesn't feel like giving chase haha I am subscribed to multiple of these game channels on YouTube. After 15 minutes of hearing all these techniques, I just check out mentally. It's hard for me to figure out how people find game appealing...but then, I can watch and engage in philosophical debates for hours on end which bores others to tears, so who am I to complain?

 

I hope it works out for you cookiesandough! From reading your posts, you and Lorenza both strike me as good people and I think you both deserve to find love!

[Cookiesandough]

Thank you:) I agree Lorenza is awesome, as are you!!! I am not trying to play games But I do need to play it cool because I'm one of those people that goes a little ga-ga when I like someone and need to CHILL.

 

Anyway, I had a first date with this person and I figured out why he was fence-y before our first meet and he is no longer on the fence.

[TheFinalWord]

Thank you:) I agree Lorenza is awesome, as are you!!! I am not trying to play games But I do need to play it cool because I'm one of those people that goes a little ga-ga when I like someone and need to CHILL.

 

Anyway, I had a first date with this person and I figured out why he was fence-y before our first meet and he is no longer on the fence.

 

aww thanks!

 

haha no, you do not strike me as a game player at all. Just another person trying to learn more about themselves. You're very introspective, which is a rare trait. Keep doing you C&D!!

[CptInsano]

You are probably right that it's a generational saying. Looking back I know that when I was in high school and even some in college I play the pull push back off be intrested dance game. As I mature and now that I am approaching the half century mark, I have more appreciation for honesty and maturity. So that's probably why I don't do that or date people that do that anymore.

 

I've never had that phase, to be honest. But I didn't spend a whole lot of time dating either. I always found somebody I was interested in and then was rather unambiguous about it. I also appreciated if the other person did the same. Compared to my time spent in relationships my dating phases were extremely short. I know that some people see dating as something to be valued in itself, and I'm positive that it leads to a different perception of the whole process.

[knabe]

I've never had that phase, to be honest. But I didn't spend a whole lot of time dating either. I always found somebody I was interested in and then was rather unambiguous about it. I also appreciated if the other person did the same. Compared to my time spent in relationships my dating phases were extremely short. I know that some people see dating as something to be valued in itself, and I'm positive that it leads to a different perception of the whole process.

 

The funny thing....I didn't actually date much in high school. I spent MANY nights home watching TV. I wonder if there was a correlation......lol

 

Basically, someone who HAS game doesn't have to PLAY games.

[The Urbanyst]

The funny thing....I didn't actually date much in high school. I spent MANY nights home watching TV. I wonder if there was a correlation......lol

 

Basically, someone who HAS game doesn't have to PLAY games.

 

Kind of a contradiction isn't it? Having "game" is playing games.

 

Just people with "game" play games better than people without game lol.

 

There is no "game" in genuine human interactions.

[knabe]

Kind of a contradiction isn't it? Having "game" is playing games.

 

Just people with "game" play games better than people without game lol.

 

There is no "game" in genuine human interactions.

 

Let's take a look at some urban vocabulary.

 

When we say someone "has game," what we are saying is that they are successful with the opposite sex. The word game is not to be taken literally.

 

Playing games is doing formulaic, sad, deceptive, and dishonest manipulation to throw the other person off-kilter, hoping it will make them cling.

 

It's called a play on words.

 

Perhaps not being so literal and relaxing a bit will help.

[ZayKayWill]

I feel this right now honestly. Was kinda talking to this new chick and eh I'm not really that attracted to her physically and she really liked me...next thing I know she friendzones me and is talking to a new guy that's more her age. It's weird because even though she has every right to do that, I was still a little hurt, DESPITE the fact that I never wanted anything serious from her...

[The Urbanyst]

Let's take a look at some urban vocabulary.

 

When we say someone "has game," what we are saying is that they are successful with the opposite sex. The word game is not to be taken literally.

 

Playing games is doing formulaic, sad, deceptive, and dishonest manipulation to throw the other person off-kilter, hoping it will make them cling.

 

It's called a play on words.

 

Perhaps not being so literal and relaxing a bit will help.

 

Incorrect.

 

A person who is successful with the opposite sex is called "attractive".

 

A person with "game" is someone who says all the right things at the right time. A smooooooth operator.

 

Perhaps not being so clueless and educating yourself a bit will help

[kazen]

I would say playing hard to get isn't all that effective since by "playing" it means it's not genuine and eventually the facade will be exposed. People who are genuinely hard to get have other more significant matters to attend to are the real catches women desires. It's like the difference between fake confidence and real confidence. Guys who fake confidence to attract women might get a women's phone number but ultimately they will fail when their real insecurities surfaces. That's why I don't encourage people to fake it, just become the real thing by putting your life and goals above relationships. Ironically, that's how you attract lots of women by not putting them first. Those who put women on the pedestal will always get rejected. It's a simple truth but so many "nice guys" fail to see it.

[Andy_K]

The thing is, the people it works best on are those least suited to relationships...

[Springsummer]

It is possibly an animal nature.

 

Even my CAT acts this way. when I try to catch and hug him, he runs off his feet. when I walk away, he come rush out of hiding and hugs my feet.

 

guess I am this way too, but never really recognize it.