Am I stupid to plan / think of the worst?

[Els]

It all depends on the context of how it came up and how it was said, but my initial thought is that you're over thinking things. If you were realistic you would realize that what your wife said was realism - nobody is perfect, and part of a long term relationship is being able to acknowledge and accept the other person's flaws.

[usa1ah]

OP doesn't have a problem with his wife's flaws.

 

He is having a problem with what SHE brought up on holiday. Talking to him about their future happiness because he is not into food, can't memorize the steers of NYC like a cab driver and won't demand store managers stay open late when she can't get there before they close.

 

I tell you, it I was a woman and in her shoes, I would definitely divorce noony over this horrible infraction of the marriage vows already. Seeing how I am not a woman, thank goodness, I see it as she is looking for an excuse.

 

This thinking should have never been brought up in a discussion about there future happiness unless she is looks for an excuse to leave.

 

If my wife brought things like this up in our marriage, I would askiif she was wanting out of it. What was really going on in her mind because she is nowhere this petty. My wife's biggest complaint about me is that I refuse to make the bed.

[Cephalopod]

Apparently as far as she is concerned she has no flaws. Only he does.

[Just a Guy]

Hi noonynicky, (Did I get that correct?), on reading through your thread I get the feeling that the mismatch between you and your wife is not a simple percentage based one but something more fundamental. The very fact that you are here on this forum with a thread title like the one you have chosen indicates as much. It seems to me that your wife is high maintenance with a number of fancy tastes and in trying to please her you have been going counter to your own basic personality traits. It is something like keeping up with the Jones's. It is an artificial construct, a facade if you will, which will crumble when it has to face the pressures of life in the mid and long term. Your wife seems the dominant kind who will probably keep you on a tight leash and as the newness of your relationship wears off, she will probably become nasty if things don't go exactly as she wants them to. The way I see it with what you have written, she is well on her way to becoming a Prima Donna.

 

You, on the other hand seem more a relaxed type prone to taking life as it is and adjusting to it naturally and easily. You know the art of compromising and you do not set your standards so high that you will be disappointed if those standards are not met each and every time. Does your wife earn as much as you or does she work only to keep herself occupied while expecting you to bring in the moolah? The answer to this question will be revealing.

 

So if any of what I have had to say rings bells then your choice of thread title is spot on. I also think that at a gut level you recognize where your relationship is headed. All I can say is that you should hope for the best and prepare for the worst. WMacbride's quote at the end of her posts comes to mind. Warm wishes.

[blessedby4]

Someone once said “A good relationship starts with good communication.” I have learned in my marriage when my wife speaks, I look at her directly in her eyes; this way I know for sure and (and she knows as well) that she has my complete undivided attention. Strong listening skills helps with good communication. Good communication sets the stage whereby your wife can share with you her needs and your needs with her. It's a blessing that she has shared with you how you may not be meeting her needs- confiding in you is better than any alternative- that she shares with an outsider. I recently read these Bible verses: Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.

Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.

[Just a Guy]

Well said Blessedby4, the only thing with the communication here is that it is top down, the top being the wife and the down being the OP. One way communication will not solve their problems nor will dictation on her part to him work very well. Fact is, the things that she expects him to hone his skills on are just superficial artifacts. They have nothing to do with basic, genuine human needs or characteristics. His wife should be happy that the two of them match in their interests to the extent of 70% and the 30% difference is what makes life interesting. Otherwise they would be clones of each other. Just a thought. Warm wishes.

[noonynicky]

Hi Just a Guy,

 

Thank you for replying. While others do, your reply resonates with me the most. So to first get the elephant out of the room, my wife currently earns 15% more than me. However, we talked about this multiple times and unless she's lying, this is not the reason. (more on this later) Bear in mind we're both at the top 80 percentile of the nation's earners thereby making this difference manifest in the form of BMW vs Lexus rather than Honda or taking a taxi.

 

And I did ask her specifically, would she have brought up this conversation, me lacking the 30% of qualities, had I had 5x more cash in my savings. She hesitated, thought about it for a while, and muttered yes.

 

After thinking about your reply through, my wife is a Prima Donna. Any minute, and I mean literally a minute, that diverges from her schedule of the day, usually results in her being unpleasant. Okay, I understand that girls need a structured schedule for their day. But there are just too many of these signs that support your thesis - she always tells me about her rights in this worlds (rights to me her: a large bonus from employers, make bookings and bailing without the courtesy to inform them), she has no patience in allowing customer service to understand her claim, her opening the conversation with "What would make me (as in her) happier in 3 years ...".

 

So progress in my marriages is two fold:

 

1. Why did she yes to my proposal when she knew I lacked this 30%? My answer is that she knew that I'll eventually, maybe magically, become this perfect guy. She's a keen on the concept of speaking is believing and I do feel that she's projecting me to be that perfect guy I'm not.

 

IMPORTANT: She keeps emphasizing, through consistent text and word, that she loves me and can't live without me. Honestly, it does sound genuine and I just know she doesn't entertain the advances of other guys. Could this enforce the case that it is MORE likely she's holding on to that belief / dream that I'll be that perfect guy and LESS likely she loves me now even if I continue to be the same.

 

2. Can I go on with life like this? Sure, you can blame me for picking her given that I should have seen this coming. My approached was mentioned before: relationships isn't my life goal and I damn well know that my wife isn't the source of my happiness. I always tell myself there are people much worse out there and I should think dealing with such a woman isn't the worst problem to have.

 

As for elaine

 

An interest in fine dining, the need to hone some social skills and a sense of direction can hardly be equated to 30% of a person's worth, so my take on this is not that his wife is seeking a way out, but that the OP is.

I detect building resentment

 

No, there was no emphasis to highlight this marriage. Utmost honestly, and consistent which what I've said so far, I'm 32 this year and if this doesn't work, I can see myself being 100% content in life saving money and opening up an art gallery and raising a Rottweiler. I know people like to hold on to their youth. Maybe if I was 28, I would chase the hottest girl out there. I 100% accept the fact that I'm out of this dating game.

Edited August 16, 2017 by noonynicky

[basil67]

Noonynicky, so we've established that your wife is a Prima Donna who is primarily concerned about herself. She has always been like this, so there's no reason to think she will change.

 

So, you have to make your plans with this knowledge. If you are unhappy in this situation with her holding this over your head, then leave her. But if you can live with her prima donna ways and knowing that she may decide to drop you if you can't meet her requirements, then stay.

 

Out of curiousity, do the two of you have friends? I think it would be very hard to be a friend of hers.

[noonynicky]

This is how I see my marriage (sorry for the earlier typo, yes only one and only marriage)

 

I think the question comes down to can my life, or a life, be lived married to someone where my wife doesn't fall in the top 5 of priorities. Lemme explain.

 

Sure, if my wife is in physical harm, in financial need, or even wants company, then I'm there. I mean by priorities as do I see my wife in the picture of the top 5 events in my future.

 

They'll be things like 1) manager of company, 2) opening an art gallery 3) represent my city / country in a world event, things which I would be fine if she's there or not. You know what I mean. Because that's essentially how I feel right now. Maybe it's a function of her being who she is, or it's that I don't want to live for something that isn't sure, namely how she'll feel. Whereas the examples I wrote above are sure in the sense it's proportional to the time I put in.

 

I know this may be warped, especially among those who believe love is the goal of life. I respect that. But maybe I'm just not that kind of person, or that I'm adapting to my situation.

[Arieswoman]

noonynicky,

 

Am I stupid to plan / think of the worst?

 

No, you're not.

 

There are some meta-messages in your wife's statement.

 

Firstly, it's a not-so-subtle put down, she's telling you you're not meeting her expectations.

 

She's giving you a time-line to improve and meet her expectations/demands.

 

She's telling you that if you don't, then she won't stick around more than 3 years.

 

I would bet a pound to a penny she's making plans to detach herself from the marriage.

 

I can remember that when my husband was cheating (before DD) he said, out of the blue, "Arieswoman, I can't live up to your high standards"

 

I asked him what "high standards" he meant. I asked him did he mean that taking a coffee cup into the kitchen, picking up his dirty laundry, washing a few dishes for me etc were too high standards for him?

 

He said "I'm trying". I said "How hard is it to just give me a bit of help around he place"?

 

I never got an answer, he just stood there looking like a dumb ox.

 

I think he was trying to tell me in a roundabout way that he wasn't happy.

 

Keep your eyes & ears open, I smell trouble ahead.... sorry x

[noonynicky]

Firstly, it's a not-so-subtle put down, she's telling you you're not meeting her expectations.

 

I asked him what "high standards" he meant. I asked him did he mean that taking a coffee cup into the kitchen, picking up his dirty laundry, washing a few dishes for me etc were too high standards for him?

 

Thank you for the honesty. I believe you're spot on. But just three things.

 

1. Her high expectations isn't washing dishes, which I would gladly do without blinking. As mentioned, they're understanding fine dining, catering to her every whim, and needing me to memorize Google maps.

 

2. I keep asking myself, at what point can I not "learn" or "become" these expectations. You can say I'm a method person; I see a situation, I study it, and I solve it if it is for the betterment of said situation. I had the intention to schedule a trip to a wine tasting event every month just for this.

 

However, let's just say that this would be the 6th thing I go against my wishes to do. I ways actually okay doing the 5 things because I know you need to do somethings for the relationship. However when I solve the 5th thing, I thought she would be satisfied, as she said she would prior to me solving it. Now, there's a 6th, 7th and 8th.

 

3. Are there any consistency in her still saying she loves me, wants to be with me now? We come from conservative backgrounds and I doubt any of us would cheat. (I know anything is possible, but let's just assume this). Thus, I believe she'll stay as long as she believes I'll become this person. And maybe she can believe for a very long time.

[lucy_in_disguise]

Do you even love her? I'm not saying it's undeserved, but you've brought up a lot of very negative characteristics. No one is perfect but I think people tend to focus on the positives when it's someone they love either glossing over negative characteristics or reframing them in affectionate ways.

 

Your wife sounds uptight and controlling but despite what you write, I'm not getting the sense that she is really looking for you to change in 3 years or else she will leave you. Firstly, no one would stay in a relationship for 3 years, apparently showing affection, while monitoring your progress with fine dining knowledge. I can't speak for everyone but generally people are either happy or they're not. We all wish our partners could change some things about themselves but I've never heard of a situation where someone had what appeared to be a happy relationship with a bunch of ultimatums attached. I've also never heard of a woman in her mid-thirties who wants children decide to stick around for 3 years under the condition her husband improve his fine dining skills by then. It's too far fetched. So, I think either she is at a crisis right now and is planning to leave, or you are reading too much into her words.

 

Speaking of her words.... Obviously they are thoughtless and hurtful. Personally I don't think she implied as much as you interpreted, but they are obviously doing damage to the relationship, so I'd suggest seeing a marriage counselor to 1. Help you understand her position and 2. Help your wife learn better communication techniques. I don't think she wants to drive you away and it would be a shame if she did so inadvertently with her harsh language.

[BluesPower]

Are there any consistency in her still saying she loves me, wants to be with me now? We come from conservative backgrounds and I doubt any of us would cheat. (I know anything is possible, but let's just assume this). Thus, I believe she'll stay as long as she believes I'll become this person. And maybe she can believe for a very long time.

 

Here is one place that you are being foolish... And, well, it is just one place, you are being foolish about all of this.

 

But thinking that she won't cheat, I mean come on man, she is basically telling you that you are a place holder. Do you think she would not start screwing the next guy she finds that meets 85% of her expectations. Buddy, you had better think again. I am not so sure she is not cheating right now by the way that she talks.

 

Here is the main point, and I believe that you are making you biggest mistake here: This whole discussion is not how marriage or any other romantic relationship works at all.

 

As a man you should know who you are. And what you tell a woman is, look this is who I am, if you want to be with me cool, and if you don't, hit the freaking road baby doll.

 

I am not saying you can't improve yourself because you want to or learn things you need to know.

 

But, for me, when she graced me with her opinion that I met 70% of her expectations, I would have said, "Well you are a 100% a pain in the A$$. Further, sugar breeches, you need to look for a new place to live because I am filing for divorce tomorrow morning".

 

Why in the world would even think of being with a woman that acts and talks this way.

 

You need to tell her to take a hike. I am sure that Mr. 100% is just down the road a bit...

[lucy_in_disguise]

Here is one place that you are being foolish... And, well, it is just one place, you are being foolish about all of this.

 

But thinking that she won't cheat, I mean come on man, she is basically telling you that you are a place holder. Do you think she would not start screwing the next guy she finds that meets 85% of her expectations. Buddy, you had better think again. I am not so sure she is not cheating right now by the way that she talks.

 

Here is the main point, and I believe that you are making you biggest mistake here: This whole discussion is not how marriage or any other romantic relationship works at all.

 

As a man you should know who you are. And what you tell a woman is, look this is who I am, if you want to be with me cool, and if you don't, hit the freaking road baby doll.

 

I am not saying you can't improve yourself because you want to or learn things you need to know.

 

But, for me, when she graced me with her opinion that I met 70% of her expectations, I would have said, "Well you are a 100% a pain in the A$$. Further, sugar breeches, you need to look for a new place to live because I am filing for divorce tomorrow morning".

 

Why in the world would even think of being with a woman that acts and talks this way.

 

You need to tell her to take a hike. I am sure that Mr. 100% is just down the road a bit...

 

Give me a break... If we all assumed the worst about our partners and filed for divorce after every offensive statement, no one would stay married.

 

The OP's wife is a pain in the ass and is not skilled at choosing her words effectively but I'm not convinced the problem is all her.

 

The OP doesn't talk like he even loves her and is wondering if he can stay married when his marriage is not his priority.

 

Maybe it is the 70/30 comment and more generally his wife's personality that contributed to this place they now find themselves in, but it's his decision to check out, and anyway it takes two to be incompatible. Everybody has flaws - a different man may not read into her comments like he did.

 

Bottom line is love and marriage require kindness and commitment. Both OP and wife are short on kindness, and OP is questioning both of their commitment.

 

To answer his question directly- yes, I think it is impossible to sustain a marriage preparing for the worst, with one foot out the door. Marriage is a leap of faith in yourself, your partner and his/ her intentions, and in the relationship. the lack of faith may be due to a communication issue, incompatibility, or due to one or both of you truly not being cut out for the institution of marriage. Either way you should address the lack of faith to give you both the opportunity to be more fulfilled.

[BluesPower]

Give me a break... If we all assumed the worst about our partners and filed for divorce after every offensive statement, no one would stay married.

 

The OP's wife is a pain in the ass and is not skilled at choosing her words effectively but I'm not convinced the problem is all her.

 

The OP doesn't talk like he even loves her and is wondering if he can stay married when his marriage is not his priority.

 

Maybe it is the 70/30 comment and more generally his wife's personality that contributed to this place they now find themselves in, but it's his decision to check out, and anyway it takes two to be incompatible. Everybody has flaws - a different man may not read into her comments like he did.

 

Bottom line is love and marriage require kindness and commitment. Both OP and wife are short on kindness, and OP is questioning both of their commitment.

 

To answer his question directly- yes, I think it is impossible to sustain a marriage preparing for the worst, with one foot out the door. Marriage is a leap of faith in yourself, your partner and his/ her intentions, and in the relationship. the lack of faith may be due to a communication issue, incompatibility, or due to one or both of you truly not being cut out for the institution of marriage. Either way you should address the lack of faith to give you both the opportunity to be more fulfilled.

 

I'll give you a break if you will give me one...

 

What man, an actual man, would allow himself to be spoken to that way???

 

The conversation itself is just insulting.

 

Yes, I would tell her that is she is not happy then she needs to hit the road.

 

Are you saying, Lucy, that you would allow a man to speak to you that way and not tell him to get lost?

[noonynicky]

 

What man, an actual man, would allow himself to be spoken to that way???

 

 

Hi BluesPower,

 

I'm gonna say this because it may stunt you, but more importantly, it'll give you a perspective that further consistently adds to the dynamic between my wife and I.

 

The answer to your question: Me, and I don't care.

 

Now ain't that strange? See, after getting married, then hearing about couples, their problems, why people remarry, I've came to this conclusion: I absolutely see zero value expanding energy fighting over a power dynamic, who's right, who's wrong, in a marriage relationship, heck any relationship.

 

I know this is very warped. But it just doesn't make sense to me getting what I want in a relationship. Call it me fighting against the case of unlimited wants. I'm contented. I wake up in the morning, got a job, can breath, didn't meet in a car accident, I'm gold.

 

Thus lies the question: how long more can I take this? As mentioned, I already did for her five other requests. And after a month, I might just take monthly trips to the winery to educate myself for her.

Edited August 17, 2017 by noonynicky

[BluesPower]

Hi BluesPower,

 

I'm gonna say this because it may stunt you, but more importantly, it'll give you a perspective that further consistently adds to the dynamic between my wife and I.

 

The answer to your question: Me, and I don't care.

 

Now ain't that strange? See, after getting married, then hearing about couples, their problems, why people remarry, I've came to this conclusion: I absolutely see zero value expanding energy fighting over a power dynamic, who's right, who's wrong, in a marriage relationship, heck any relationship.

 

I know this is very warped. But it just doesn't make sense to me getting what I want in a relationship. Call it me fighting against the case of unlimited wants. I'm contented. I wake up in the morning, got a job, can breath, didn't meet in a car accident, I'm gold.

 

Thus lies the question: how long more can I take this? As mentioned, I already did for her five other requests. And after a month, I might just take monthly trips to the winery to educate myself for her.

 

OK, if you say so...

 

If I may though, if you are that easy going, well good for you.

 

But I predict that over time you will get tired of it or she will leave you.

 

Just don't wait 10 of 15 years to reach that point, because the longer you are together the more that you have invested on many levels.

 

But if you are good then by all means carry on...

[Cephalopod]

I'll give you a break if you will give me one...

 

What man, an actual man, would allow himself to be spoken to that way???

 

The conversation itself is just insulting.

 

Yes, I would tell her that is she is not happy then she needs to hit the road.

 

Are you saying, Lucy, that you would allow a man to speak to you that way and not tell him to get lost?

 

I'm of the same mind. No amount of money or riches or great sex will make up for a partner's lack of respect towards you.

 

 

What I see with OP's wife is that she doesn't have a whole lot of respect for him. He's a servant there to satisfy her whims and be a trophy husband. Outward appearances, economic and career achievements are most important to her. They are how she defines her worth...not as a mother or wife or partner.

 

 

I was watching an interview with Stevie Nicks, and she said that the reason she never got married was because she wanted to focus solely and completely on her singing career, and she did not want to waste any man's time by being less than totally there for him as a partner, wife and mother of his children. Those things were simply incongruous with her aspirations.

 

 

I wish more career women has that mindset.

[lucy_in_disguise]

I'll give you a break if you will give me one...

 

What man, an actual man, would allow himself to be spoken to that way???

 

The conversation itself is just insulting.

 

Yes, I would tell her that is she is not happy then she needs to hit the road.

 

Are you saying, Lucy, that you would allow a man to speak to you that way and not tell him to get lost?

 

No I would not allow someone to talk to me that way... But I'm not suggesting OP just sit there and take it. As I said, I think his wife has communication issues and they should consider counseling to learn how to talk to each other.

 

She doesn't seem aware of the damage she is doing, and OP IMO is taking her words too literally. I think the 70/30 comment and subsequent discussions were poor communication, not an ultimatum. Judging by her actions based on OP's description, she seems pretty into him and happy in the relationship. I wouldn't go out of my way to learn about fine wines just to please her. I would go to counseling to make her aware of the damage her poor choice of words is doing to the relationship. But imo threatening divorce without trying harder to understand the issue is a little premature.

[elaine567]

With this "brutal honesty" means of communication, is it possible that the wife is on the autistic spectrum.or has she been brought up in an environment where no-one holds any punches or is it a cultural thing?

 

Is this her "norm" or is it a new development?

[lucy_in_disguise]

Hi BluesPower,

 

I'm gonna say this because it may stunt you, but more importantly, it'll give you a perspective that further consistently adds to the dynamic between my wife and I.

 

The answer to your question: Me, and I don't care.

 

Now ain't that strange? See, after getting married, then hearing about couples, their problems, why people remarry, I've came to this conclusion: I absolutely see zero value expanding energy fighting over a power dynamic, who's right, who's wrong, in a marriage relationship, heck any relationship.

 

I know this is very warped. But it just doesn't make sense to me getting what I want in a relationship. Call it me fighting against the case of unlimited wants. I'm contented. I wake up in the morning, got a job, can breath, didn't meet in a car accident, I'm gold.

 

Thus lies the question: how long more can I take this? As mentioned, I already did for her five other requests. And after a month, I might just take monthly trips to the winery to educate myself for her.

 

I honestly don't understand this. If you are content and don't have a problem bending to her will... What is the issue? Clearly you do have a problem with it (as would most people) or you wouldn't be posting here. Maybe it's time to own your needs in this relationship and be more forceful in communicating to your wife what you are and are not interested in?

 

I honestly find her "demands" of you so bizarre that I have to assume you are taking them too literally. What happens if you don't get into fine dining, and clearly communicate that it's not something you will ever be interested in? Do you really believe she will leave you? I can't imagine any grown woman who loves her husband would actually believe this to be a deal breaker. I think it's far more likely that you have set a pattern where you do whatever she wants, so she expects it, and you believe it's required. You're not serving anyone with this dynamic...

 

Just tell her to take it or leave it...