seachange Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 Ditherer - dear God, your name is appropriate. As least you're aware of it, though, so that's a step in the right direction. Why are you dragging this out??? Look - I know it isn't easy to leave, and in some sense you've made some visible strides, but from what I've read here, after all these months, there still hasn't been any progress or alteration in your opinion of your marriage or your wife since your first post here (I've been following along since day one, just didn't want to jump in before). So, I say bravo! for realizing that your dilemma isn't about the woman you had the affair with. She was a complication to your own inner battle, and as such appears to have been an important impetus to move you away from an unhappy marriage. So, okay, you've come to realize that the real problem is you want out and you're not interested in working it out. That's a decision of sorts, if only an implied one, and therefore I applaud it. Hooray for decisiveness! But now you're dragging it out. You're waiting for Christmas? Okay, that's not so far away anymore, but there will always be holidays, Valentine's Day, birthdays, events, family gatherings. There isn't ever going to be an easy time to do this painful thing, but unless you get it done, you'll be in this half-state forever, and your wife, too. It's difficult to watch you hemming and hawing over taking action when your mind is so clearly made up, and I must say, it's very difficult to read the things you say about your wife. I know you don't love her, you know you don't love her, loveshack knows it and most likely she knows it too. You never did, you know that and you've come to terms with it. So now, staying is just feeding a poisonous atmosphere in which you secretly despise this person who may or may not be all that but certainly isn't aware that you're half out the door (e.g. you said she's dieting to attract you back). Maybe, at long last, it's time for you to be honest with her, the way you've been with us. Maybe that will light a fire under you? It's clear you don't have much respect for her as your wife or lover, and since I don't know her I can't really say whether or not that's earned on her part. Peering into your wife's head may induce a yuck! in anyone, or it may only induce it in you because you so determinedly want out. But it's time to stop saying mean s*** behind her back, and do the brave thing: end it. If you can't respect her as a woman, at least treat her well as another human being, and be HONEST with her. Please. Hurry up!!
Author Ditherer Posted December 10, 2005 Author Posted December 10, 2005 Thank you seachange, I'm glad I finally inspired you to chip in I'm a bit pushed for time today, so I'll keep it short for now and post more in a day or two. I really don't feel I can rush this thing.. I've always been one to "go with the flow" and take things at my own pace. I need to do a lot of sorting and tidying before I breathe a word of how I feel - I need to be able to drop everything and go AS SOON AS I ever start to discuss things, because she'll flip and tell me to go there and then, I suspect. This will take time and I'm not really getting on with it much yet - maybe that's because I'm a lazy so-and-so who puts things off to the last minute, or maybe it's because deep down I haven't 100% decided or I simply don't believe I can do it? Time will tell. Thanks again for posting, it was stuff I needed to hear!
Author Ditherer Posted December 14, 2005 Author Posted December 14, 2005 Today, yet more mulling over what I'd say to people, if I left her... It's not so much that "I think I can do better" - it's not that I'm in an ACCEPTABLE relationship but ungratefully want more ... no, it's more like : it's so bad that I'd be better off on my own! So how can I have 'suddenly realised this' after years of going along with it? Because I've never been truly happy, I just accepted my lot, not believing anything more (or divorce) was possible, just bumbled along (unhappily) with the whole "two friends sharing lives" scenario, which has become more and more frustrating and I now realise it's LIVING A LIE, deceiving everyone. I'm fairly sure I know what I have to do.. leave. I'm as sure as I'll ever be that no matter how hard I try to accept things as they've been, no matter how much I try to get close again, stoke up the sex life, TRY to love her.. it'll never be what I really want. It's never felt right. Even though I seriously doubt that I'll ever find someone else and a relationship based upon a great 'meeting of minds', if I stayed I'd hate myself forever more for not giving myself a chance, and for deceiving my wife. I cannot live this lie any more. I *KNOW* I'll eventually be DESPERATE to split up, even if it's 50/50 now. For now the kids make things bearable, it's just awkward beyond belief when they're in bed and I'm dreading her starting to talk about things again.. and having to lie that everything's OK. She know's it's not, I'm being cold and can't reassure her or hug her. She's hating it. We both know it's heading towards a big bust-up, we're just scared to get there! I may SAY I'm sure as I'll ever be about knowing I have to go... and yet I'm still holding back. Yes I'm terrified of the hassle of splitting, of hurting people, of rebuilding my life, and "will I cope?" etc, but more than that ... there's a niggling doubt that just maybe perhaps I COULD learn to accept my lot in life. I managed it here and there briefly along the way in the last xx years... could I get it back? But now that I feel I've broken my vows and examined things in minute detail from so many angles, each time I start questioning myself about this I realise I've gone too far. I've left whatever love there was so far behind me that I don't think I really could make it back there. Maybe things will become clearer in the coming weeks. I'd love to pray for a sign but I don't think it would be right to ask for one. This is something I've got to work out for myself. *sigh*
OldEurope Posted December 14, 2005 Posted December 14, 2005 I just accepted my lot, not believing anything more (or divorce) was possible, just bumbled along (unhappily) with the whole "two friends sharing lives" scenario, which has become more and more frustrating and I now realise it's LIVING A LIE, deceiving everyone. I may SAY I'm sure as I'll ever be about knowing I have to go... and yet I'm still holding back. Yes I'm terrified of the hassle of splitting, of hurting people, of rebuilding my life, and "will I cope?" etc, but more than that ... there's a niggling doubt that just maybe perhaps I COULD learn to accept my lot in life. I managed it here and there briefly along the way in the last xx years... could I get it back? But now that I feel I've broken my vows and examined things in minute detail from so many angles, each time I start questioning myself about this I realise I've gone too far. I've left whatever love there was so far behind me that I don't think I really could make it back there. Dith---examine these two statements. The realization that you are, in your caps, "LIVING A LIE", versus your "terror" of the minutae of splitting, hurting people, rebuilding...and then resigning yourself to possibly "accepting" your lot--like someone living out a jail sentence... What is more important to you--living your life honestly, in good conscience by being true to yourself (the oldest wisdom and still most ignored in human history)....or making sure the in laws/friends are cheery, having to put up with a few administrative hassles/headaches, and growing old and frustrated by "putting up" with life versus living it. I mean, you are at the point (and have been at the point for some time) of dreading, in your words, having to talk to your spouse after the kids are in bed. "I have left whatever love there was so far behind me I don't think I could really make it back there". You have answered your own problem in stating that, you know.... In my view, you have indeed made up in your mind; you are not so much the "ditherer"; rather, you are baffled over how to go about taking that first step; of change. There is a difference. To my mind you are convinced that this is not working with your spouse and CAN NOT work out. What is frustrating you is more organizational--the upheaval, the starting fresh etc. But you might consider seeing "all that" for the postive aspect it is--living your life, at long last, not as a bloody lie. Do NOT ever let the administrative side of life take over the essential, emotional/productive aspect of life. You will so regret it.... O E
Author Ditherer Posted December 15, 2005 Author Posted December 15, 2005 Thanks O E, that's good advice. I appreciate your support. There are other people on here who *seem* (I stress that's my *perception*) to be very dismissive of situations like mine.. as if we *should* just soldier bravely on, sticking to the vows for the sake of it. I'm sure they mean well and believe their own advice, and maybe I *DO* need to hear it and give it due consideration... but it can be very frustrating when it feels like I'm being made to feel I'm just being silly and don't know my own mind. Then again, that's half the problem, I'm not sure I do!! LOL I'm still missing the fun and incredible excitement of the affair, but I'm trying to think more positively now - I'm trying to divert the focus of attention away from 'babe' and towards the unknown future. Instead of thinking "how wonderful she was, if only I could be with her again", I'm now changing that to "how wonderful it felt to be with someone who was like that (while it suited her!), I'll see if I can find someone even better". It's still tough though, as today I wandered about town wondering how the heck I'd ever start talking to anyone who caught my eye. It seems so impossible, but I try to keep an open mind and not worry about it.. it's up to me to make my life what I want it to be, and as I've said, there's no rush... even ONE fun relationship in a few years time is still more excitement than I'd get staying here. Funny how I mentioned wanting a sign a two days ago, but not feeling I should ask for one - a very strange coincidence happened the next day! I saw my friend's ex-wife (my friend inspired me that divorce IS possible - he left a REALLY crummy marriage and had the good fortune to meet his ideal partner.. he's remarried shortly after the divorce! I'm not expecting to be so lucky myself of course, but it shows what might be possible... and my wife keeps going on about it and saying how I'll be trying to copy him next... she's not as daft as she looks!)... where was I? Oh, yes, I saw his ex-wife crossing the road near the flats where my 'babe' lives. I had to phone my mate about something anyway, so when I called him I asked him where she's living now and YES!! She only lives in the same block of flats!! He's remarked many times how similar my babe sounded to his ex, frail and sickly, out of work with a whole collection of problems, self-centered and more focussed upon having SOMEONE (for the sake of it) without genuinely caring about them - there are numerous other things they have in common too which I can't mention, and now, after considering about asking for a sign... I find out they're even more similar than I could ever have guessed! She's been there for ages, how did I only JUST find out now? I know if it was a sign from above it wasn't quite the topic I wanted a sign about, and I'm not sure I should consider it a sign (unlike a few very definite ones I've had before in my life) but I'll choose to regard it as one. Just when I needed to see how shockingly similar they are.. and she was SO wrong for my mate, he's done VERY well to leave her and move on.. and that's what I need to do too. I saw some great advice on this site today (another thread)... very brutally straightforward words that need to be so, to sink in .. "Face it, the old relationship is DEAD. DEAD. DEAD!!!" .. so let it go, Dith.. and look forward in hope to another one... .. which will require leaving my wife, of course. She was was on the phone to my mum tonight (they're very closely supportive to each other) telling her how I can't show her any love or reassurance that everything will be alright.. it's not fair.. etc. How serious is that? I don't know how I'm going to hold things together over the holidays - I'll have to lie and pretend that all's well for now. It feels really crap. Mind you, she's not making any huge efforts.. I was ready to hug her goodnight if I had to, but she just said an irritable goodnight and vanished, as usual. I'm really in her bad books! She went off for a bath and that was that. I even had my concerned daughter come downstairs some time afterwards (they have a good chat when she's in the bath) and the poor kid asked me "do you still love mummy, because she's not very happy at the moment"... how crummy does THAT make me feel? Dead inside.
InnerPeace Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 Today my wife actually asked me my views about some aspect of her and I couldn't be bothered to be tactful.. I thought I might as well be honest.. it upset her.. she got quite hurt and annoyed with me. But I didn't care.. it's horrible but I'm just cold and empty inside. When she said we'd probably end up apart before the year was out.. I felt a mixture of relief (that she's considering a breakup and can handle the thought of it without EXTREME drama) and some worry - which surprised me. Based on what you said regarding your "relief", you're trying to create a scenario where your wife leaves YOU as opposed to YOU leaving your wife...and that just sucks. You want your wife to do YOUR dirty work.....be a man, step up and leave. Just end it. Consider your feelings NOW and not what will be. Are you normally a cold, heartless person that hurts people? (I'm not calling you this, you said you were "honest" and upset her but you didn't care, thus your actions are saying something different.) If not, then you're not being honest with yourself...understand that....what you are doing..if it's NOT in any way, shape or form who you claim to be to others, then you need to pack your bags and walk away OR shape up. But don't continue like this, not this way...not hurting; you or your wife.
InnerPeace Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 I'm sorry if that was harsh...I literally read/scanned through the entire thread...the ENTIRE THREAD...and I was a bit bleary-eyed!!! It just appears as if you are looking for an "easy-out" from all this and by your actions of bitterness towards her you might just be sub-consciously (consciously on another level) hoping she will get fed up and walk out herself! At this point in the game, it's become UNHEALTHY for you to continue this Dith!! Crying one day, feeling fine the next, wanting 'fantasy-babe' one day, saying you are over her the next, feeling bitter and cold towards your wife one day, being ok with her the next.......It's just not healthy!! You're disconnected somehow with your brain and your heart. I know you are posting things here about your feelings, thoughts, etc.. I almost think you are hoping, by writing the words, that you will COME to believe what you are writing...and the reason I say this is because you flip-flop with your feelings and thoughts, justifying things, but then it not coinciding with your feelings, thoughts..... but I ask you...go back and read ALLLL of YOUR responses (yup, every last one of 'em) and see what I see. Notice how it looks like you are trying to convince yourself of things.....but yet then you turn around the next day and change your feelings/thoughts! No wonder your so confused, hurting and your moods are swinging from chandelier to chandelier!! I'm hoping if you go back and read these you will see something and a light will pop on and you'll feel "freed".
Author Ditherer Posted December 17, 2005 Author Posted December 17, 2005 Notice how it looks like you are trying to convince yourself of things.....but yet then you turn around the next day and change your feelings/thoughts! No wonder your so confused, hurting and your moods are swinging from chandelier to chandelier!! I'm hoping if you go back and read these you will see something and a light will pop on and you'll feel "freed". I wish a light WOULD pop on, LOL. Thanks for commenting. Yes, my thoughts are all over the place. I think (at least I HOPE) it's natural for things to go in cycles up and down.. the Getting Over Her seems to be like that. One day I'll be convinced it would NEVER have worked out and I've had a lucky escape, and the next day i'll find myself wondering if anything will ever happen again... sad isn't it? But I think it gets a little bit easier after each 'cycle', each Up is a little bit higher than the previous one, and each Down isn't quite so bad. As for the Big Decision to Stay or Leave, yes I'm still wrestling with it and hating it. Nearly all the signs point to Leave, but I know if I make an announcement people will focus on the reasons I should be staying and will have me questioning it myself. I'm very 50/50 on the current situation in some ways, although I'm almost certain things will get worse and worse later on in life if I stay. It only really worked between us when we were younger because.. we were having sex, basically. It brought us together. I was a young man, inexperienced and insecure, and someone pretty and funny wanted me.. I lapped it up (pun possibly intended!). It all went downhill when we moved in together and the lovin' stopped.. it become painfully obvious just how we weren't really great company for each other. If I ask myself "what do I really want? If I could just leave with no bad feelings, and get by happily?" I know the answer is YES PLEASE.. so I really should be true to myself, shouldn't I? I still don't know if I'll have the guts to do it though I'm trying to take the strain off deciding, by giving myself until at least a few weeks into the New Year. Maybe I'm hoping that staying would be an easy way out of the hassle of leaving... like I'd sacrifice my long term happiness to avoid the short term aggravation? Pathetic and feeble, isn't it? But maybe a light will pop on that I could possibly carve out some acceptable happiness in some way by accepting my lot? But why would it work this time, when it hasn't before? I'm still going around in circles then! If you think it's mad, reading this, imagine how it feels to live it!!
InnerPeace Posted December 17, 2005 Posted December 17, 2005 As for the Big Decision to Stay or Leave, yes I'm still wrestling with it and hating it. Nearly all the signs point to Leave, but I know if I make an announcement people will focus on the reasons I should be staying and will have me questioning it myself. I'm very 50/50 on the current situation in some ways, although I'm almost certain things will get worse and worse later on in life if I stay. _________ Are you THAT worried of what others will think of you? Don't you have ANY amt. of confidence or TRUST in your decisions? Who ARE you? Once you can CLEARLY answer those questions (with one or two sentence answers..lol) will you be able to move forward. Without knowing who you are or what you want will only hinder you & make your decision that much harder (as it obviously already has). GL! I'm rooting for you!
ms_jnj Posted December 17, 2005 Posted December 17, 2005 Methinks you are suffering from a "the grass is always greener on the other side" complex. Have you ever stoped to think that a more intelligent girl may not fancy you if she knew anything about your relationship past? I'm well educated with a sophisticated sense of humor, and no offense, but I wouldn't touch you with a ten foot pole after how you've led this poor woman on. I suppose you wouldn't have to disclose it to a new love interest but........ It isn't always how intelligent you are, or how sophisticated you are, but how you treat the other people in your life. And you're a bit lacking in that last department.
Author Ditherer Posted December 17, 2005 Author Posted December 17, 2005 Thanks InnerPeace Are you THAT worried of what others will think of you? It always bothers me if people are going to lose all faith in me, yes. Who DOES want to end up an outcast? (no offence to the poster here of that name!!) But as I've said before, true friends will support me no matter what, and anyone who doesn't can go to 'heck'. Don't you have ANY amt. of confidence or TRUST in your decisions? Yes, but this one is huge!! Despite what's all been written here, I *DO* believe in marriage vows. I had been prepared to make a go of it, it's only recently when I've seen other friends divorce that I've realised it's not as impossible as I thought it was. That's all happened in the last two years, and to be honest I was a little shocked and mildly disgusted with it at first. I was as indignant as many people would be... "you made a promise to each other in front of all your family, friends and God, how can you not stick to it?". Plus, although I'm running her down here in an attempt to justify my dithering, I'm not a total fool - I did have JUST ENOUGH feelings for her to believe it was all possible. I wouldn't have married her if she wasn't a good laugh, easy company, pretty, and likely to become a good mother, and a host of other good qualities. The shame is that many of these qualities (not necessarily the ones specified here) have vanished or become irrelevant. The truth is, IT HASN'T worked out, and I've no faith that it will ever 'hit the spot'. This is the whole problem.. this is why I'm dithering so much.. there's a lot of good here, just not enough. In some ways it's similar to a mid-life crisis, but it's been like this for a long time - it's more fundamental; a deep-down mismatch is the root of it. It's a relationship past it's sell-by date. Who ARE you? Well, much as I'd love to post my pic and name... perhaps I'd better not!! GL! I'm rooting for you! Thanks! You're very kind! Cheers
Author Ditherer Posted December 17, 2005 Author Posted December 17, 2005 Hi ms_jnj Methinks you are suffering from a "the grass is always greener on the other side" complex. Methinks I'm not. I'm not expecting to find anyone else. I'd LOVE to, of course, but I'm prepared to deal with whatever happens. It's more like "the grass really ISN'T as green as it should be on THIS side, so I'll jump over the fence and hope for the best. If it's not greener ANYWHERE else that's tough luck, I did what I had to do." Have you ever stoped to think that a more intelligent girl may not fancy you if she knew anything about your relationship past? I'm well educated with a sophisticated sense of humor, and no offense, but I wouldn't touch you with a ten foot pole after how you've led this poor woman on. I suppose you wouldn't have to disclose it to a new love interest but........ It isn't always how intelligent you are, or how sophisticated you are, but how you treat the other people in your life. And you're a bit lacking in that last department. Feel free to judge me from all I've written here.. it's not the sum total of who I am. There's more to me than all this dithering! Would it be better if I had NOT been dithering so much? If I'd callously just discarded her without giving it so much thought? I'm AGONISING over this... it's the biggest decision I've ever faced. I DON'T want to hurt anyone unless I have no other sensible choice!! THAT's what justifies the deceit for now. I hope you never end up in this dilemma. Thanks for your comments.
Author Ditherer Posted December 17, 2005 Author Posted December 17, 2005 Partners are like shoes I once read some dating advice to not get desperate. Think of partners as a pair of new shoes - they may look exquisite and may be within budget, but if you try them on and they don’t feel right, put them back. There’s certainly no shortage of other great shoes out there - same with people. What if you tried on a few shoes many years ago but none of them fitted. Then you found a pair that more-or-less fitted and looked quite good. Everyone told you how great they looked and how they suited you. So you stuck with them. Ok, so they gave you blisters at first and still pinch a bit, but everyone thinks they're perfect for you even though you still don't feel totally comfortable in them. You simply gave up on the whole idea of trying to find really GREAT shoes, and it would be too much hassle to find better ones. To some extent you gave up on the whole idea of ever finding the perfect shoes, and it would be expensive to find them, so you stick to what you know. So many people would think you would be mad to change them, because they all think you look great in them - although your true friends know you complain about them and they'd rather you had a better pair. But they suit their purpose enough for you to get along, and allow you to fit in and do the stuff people expect of you.. you get into clubs with them OK. Then one day you realise how a few other people seem to have absolutely perfect shoes, even though there are a lot more people hobbling along in badly fitting ones as you do. How come THEY get to have great shoes? Before long you get a chance to try on another pair and WOW! They look even better, seem really well made and longlasting (and your others are going to wear out before long), but most of all they're far more comfortable than you'd have ever believed possible! It's time to change - not for the sake of it, but because you realise the old shoes simply weren't right for you after all. Maybe you can't afford these new shoes, but at least you know that you should carry on looking now, and not settle for hobbling around any more. Life's too short to spend limping around in the wrong shoes, when you could be running around having a blast. Even if you only end up with some trainers that aren't smart enough to impress other people, who cares what THEY think if you're a lot more comfy and can live your life more happily?
Author Ditherer Posted December 22, 2005 Author Posted December 22, 2005 For future reference, other threads I've posted to... I've been following MidLifeCrazy's situation with interest, it's all well written and he's been dithering as much as I have - although he's taken concrete steps to deal with his problems by actually making efforts to changes things.. talking to his wife, etc. This is something I've yet to face! His original thread: dump a bad marriage for an old love? http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t57880/ His follow-up thread: What have I gotten myself into? http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t72463/ I've also posted to : What makes a marriage joyless and boring? http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t77390/ ...I think I want to end my marriage http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t75839/ Was there something else I could have done? (For Men) http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t76558/ http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t67474/ Staying togeather for the kids
Author Ditherer Posted December 22, 2005 Author Posted December 22, 2005 I've realised why I'm so empty inside... At least I've learnt a great deal this year. I feel I've grown a lot, and I'm set free from all my previous regrets. I'm a blank slate. That's why I feel so empty - I've finally let go of all the What-Ifs from my past. I'm not yearning for anyone, or wondering what might have been. I know I've never been truly in love, I've only been infatuated with various women along the way. I've never experienced real mutual love, and if I'm going to stand a chance of this, I've got to rebuild my life and try again. I just hope I don't get down about being out-of-love, and desperate. And of course, if I'm going to take charge of my own destiny (as much as anyone can - plans are a good way to make God laugh) and find my way in life with honesty, integrity and dignity.. I'm going to have to sort this mess out and face the consequences.. then move on. Scary.
Becoming Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 I've realised why I'm so empty inside... At least I've learnt a great deal this year. I feel I've grown a lot, and I'm set free from all my previous regrets. I'm a blank slate. That's why I feel so empty - I've finally let go of all the What-Ifs from my past. I'm not yearning for anyone, or wondering what might have been. I know I've never been truly in love, I've only been infatuated with various women along the way. I've never experienced real mutual love, and if I'm going to stand a chance of this, I've got to rebuild my life and try again. I just hope I don't get down about being out-of-love, and desperate. And of course, if I'm going to take charge of my own destiny (as much as anyone can - plans are a good way to make God laugh) and find my way in life with honesty, integrity and dignity.. I'm going to have to sort this mess out and face the consequences.. then move on. Scary. Ditherer-- I once heard someone say if you don't know who you are, don't worry; everyone else will tell you. It really sounds as though you've let everyone else define who you are because . . . well, to be honest, it's easier that way. In the short-term, as you've found out. In the long term, you lose yourself and numb out. It sounds as though you've never really defined who you are and what you want--only what you don't want. I think you're going to have to leave to do that work. Of course, one thing you are is a father, and that's important to you. I'd start making a plan to leave. Maybe what you need is a trial separation just to be on your own for awhile. It seems as though you're trying to make a HUGE either/or choice, and it's an overwhelming decision. But what about separation as a middle step to give yourself more time to see what it is you really want to do?
Author Ditherer Posted December 23, 2005 Author Posted December 23, 2005 How many more times am I going to post about how well I'm handling it, and then end up in tears the next day?! Thanks Becoming, yes I'm heading towards a trial sep, I'm sure. In reply to DA and others on "What makes a marriage joyless and boring?" http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t77390/ ... 'some "wonderful feeling" that cannot truly be defined' ?!! I'm wondering whether you have had any experience of real love at all, or whether you yourself have just plodded on with an 'acceptable' relationship and 'made it work' - believing that is what 'love' really is - and that's why you so keenly advocate this to others in case they dare to break up some sacred vows and seek to try again. It's such a shame to break up a marriage is it? Sorry, but it's NOT a shame to break up a bad relationship, whether vows have been made or not. "It's called a break up because it's broken" rings more true to me - if it's that hopeless then let it go. One-sided love isn't real love. I could plod on with an 'acceptable' friendship with some bloke I knew years ago, and still continue the friendship in some just-about-workable fashion, but it's not worth it if the effort required is out of all proportion to the rewards (if any!). And yet other friendships are effortlessly rewarding and stimulating - great company. Why should intimate relationships be any different? Friends come and go, when they aren't true friends ... I think that applies to lovers too, regardless of having shared the whole marriage ceremony experience with them. It either works out or it doesn't. Why force it for the sake of it? Where's the reward? A lukewarm companionship with no passion, just because breaking up was too hard to face? Yuck. I'm sorry, but I'm sure that *some* of the magic of infatuation must be involved in real love - despite the two being different there MUST be something in common. Real love must surely have some of the magic of discovering someone you truly mesh well with - it is this magic that's always been missing in my relationship. I've SEEN with my own eyes a few other relationships that are that good, not just 'put on' when I'm around, but genuinely 'soulmatey' (and for year after year). I've also seen relationships where they just weren't right for each other and struggled to make it work - it simply wasn't worth it.. they break up eventually (I think people should be more honest about how suitable a partner really is before 'deciding' to fall for them - if only it was that simple). I believe GREAT relationships are possible if you hold out for someone really suitable and don't waste your time on so-so partners where it would be a constant struggle. It's such an important thing to get right - why waste your life with someone you don't admire, respect and want to be with? I know what's possible and how badly what I've ended up with compares to it. And it's NOT just it WAS good but now it isn't - it's NEVER been good - I should never have gone along with it from the outset. If I'd have known how badly suited we were/are BEFORE I so foolishly jumped into bed with her and cemented us together for the next xx years... if lust hadn't gotten in the way I'd have realised that I didn't WANT a long-term relationship with her - and more to the point, I'd have been more able to split up then when I wanted to. If it wouldn't have upset you or anyone else (apart from her of course) for me to have split up within 6 months of seeing her (as I tried to) then why is it such a big deal now? Because of some (broken already) vows, the kids and a house? At the end of the day it boils down to this - if I don't feel my current situation is working for me, and I cannot see any hope of it ever being the way I WANT to experience my life (no matter what I try).. then life's too short to battle on with it when I'd be happier on my own free to try again (if life's that generous to me). 'do not look to your partner as the solver or source of all problems' I simply don't want a future with her any more than I'd want one with the first random stranger I'll pass in the street next time I venture out. How much more can I justify it? If I discovered that she'd been sleeping with someone for the past few months I honestly don't think I'd be the *slightest* bit upset. I'd laugh. How the heck can I LOVE her if I care that little? Or ever HOPE to love her? What basis for continuing a marriage is THAT?!! I'm still FOND of her in a very warm way, I'd be horrified if anything HURT her, but her behaviour in regard to keeping her vows simply wouldn't affect me. I wonder if I can bear to spend my old age with her? I thought to myself it would be bearable if I could still go out and do stuff I enjoy, and if I could still see my friends. But that's nothing to DO with her! Being single would allow me to do all that too! And none of the dull-at-home crap! What do I need her for, when I can't find any motivation to even talk to her?! If I truly believed (even 20%) that this relationship still had some potential, I wouldn't be here questioning all this, I'd already be working at it and making it happen. I wouldn't have prayed for an affair to relieve the boredom because I wouldn't have let things become boring in the first place. That prayer signalled that I'd already totally given up on my vows (even though the prayer was actually for "an affair that won't go anywhere but will give me the bittersweet experience of attraction that can't go anywhere" - haha I certainly got that! Thanks God!). So I'm not already 'working at it' because I've lost all hope that it's worth doing that. I'm going to need some absolute miracle to happen, to change my views on this!
FWIW Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 If I truly believed (even 20%) that this relationship still had some potential, I wouldn't be here questioning all this But you're still dithering, aren't you? If you truly believed it was over, you wouldn't still be with her! You haven't made your mind up yet, have you? You're still trying to justify it. Why not take a break over Christmas? Tell yourself you'll appreciate what you've got for now, and come back to all this dithering in the New Year! In fact, why not get closer again? Give it one last shot? It'll either feel right or it won't, if it doesn't then you'll know 100% you did all you could. You're scared of getting trapped though, aren't you? But how can you? If you find it's still not working, you'll be no worse off then you are now. If it DOES feel good, you'll know it's worth having. If you're going to have to split, it's going to be very difficult and painful whether you've been closer lately or not. You've nothing to lose by trying to get intimate again. How can you get trapped? Can making love really trick you into staying? Would you be enjoying intimacy so much that the communication problems would seem less important? Well what's so bad about that? What objections could you have? Is it fair to her, after all you've done or felt? Yes it's fair to try one last time rather than discard her when you're not 100% sure it's hopeless. Would it feel like you're using her in some way? Can you face it? Well if you can't, then you have your answer. Just have ***, it's Christmas!!! Have a good one, and stop worrying for a week or two!!
Author Ditherer Posted December 27, 2005 Author Posted December 27, 2005 Well I hope you all had a good Christmas, mine was just about bearable, I guess Thanks FWIW, yes I'm afraid that I MIGHT get JUST HAPPY ENOUGH to stay, but that would only delay the inevitable. The one thing I am 99.9% sure about, is that later on in life things will be so bad (due to our communications differences / different levels) that WE WILL SPLIT one day. I feel I'm just putting it off, by staying. As for making love to someone I feel no love for.. that WOULD feel like I'm using her for gratification. I'd have to try intimacy first, and build slowly up to that. I'm not sure she'd be up for it, out of the blue like that, after all that's gone on recently (unless I got her drunk one night). We've been close many times off-and-on over the years but I always come back to this deep unfulfillment and yearning for better. So you're right, I can't face it, it doesn't feel right for me to prolong this dithering - I need to work towards a trial sep. I don't even know whether to TRY to forget about all this, over the hols - I don't think I can put it aside that easily, although I guess it would be good for me. Random thoughts from the past few days... Looks like I was wrong about certain posters on here having a 'mission' to save marriages by persuading people not to split - they're not trying hard enough with me for that to be the case. Either that or they've given up on me, LOL I still see comments in some threads about people needing time to themselves, so that the marriage has 'space' for each partner to hang on to their own identity. That used to seem quite sensible but today I'm more inclined to say it's daft to focus on hobbies and time to myself in some attempt to balance my life, as if time alone will restore my levels of sanity and happiness in order for me to put up with time spent with her! If my time in her company is that bad that I need to get away to balance it out, then why carry on? Splitting up will eliminate the bad stuff and leave only the good... and empty times ready to be filled with whatever I make of it. Ah well, back to the over-eating...
midlifecrazy Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 Well I haven"t checked in here for awhile but somehow I knew you'd still be going on this one Dith. Not that I have any room to talk. My situation has has taken a definite backslide for the worse. I need to start a new thread to bring things up to date, if anyone still cares. Don't have anything new to say about your deal. Still think the trial sep is the way to go. I don't know, maybe folks ought to start taking bets on which one of us gets straightened out first.
FWIW Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 My situation has has taken a definite backslide for the worse. I need to start a new thread to bring things up to date, if anyone still cares. Of course we do! Please do. maybe folks ought to start taking bets on which one of us gets straightened out first. My money's on MLC : he's taken actual steps to try and sort things out, he's more sexually motivated, and hasn't given up totally on his dreambabe (I suspect). Sorry Dith!
Author Ditherer Posted December 30, 2005 Author Posted December 30, 2005 I agree FWIW - I want to hear about MLC too, and it does sound like he'll sort himself out before I will! Come on MLC, tell us all about it! I saw my ex-'babe' with her new bloke this week, looking absolutely radiantly in love, so they've lasted at least 3 months already... not bad! I didn't think they'd get this far - maybe they *are* made for each other.. then again the spark hasn't had time to fade This time I wasn't even slightly upset - so I guess I'm a lot more over it than the last time I saw them! I feel happy that I've made a lot of progress letting go, although the thought crossed my mind that maybe they'll end up married, then divorce, she'll be better off financially, and then our paths will cross once again.. and this time she'll have "been there - done it" with the whole marriage thing and be more ready to accept what I have to offer... LOL... nah, I've given up.. I should have listened to my gut instincts all along. That's where I've gone wrong all my life - I've always known how I felt (which has always been correct) but fought it, didn't have the courage to do what I should have done, wasted years yearning for a second chance with someone I knew all along was wrong for me, settled for another wrong one, chased another wrong one for the heck of it and ended up addicted to the chase, only to hurt myself all over again... I'm a disaster!! So my New Year's Resolution is to listen to my instincts and act accordingly... be true to myself as they say. The problem is though... these resolutions just cry out to be broken, don't they! Wishing us all a dither-free 2006
Author Ditherer Posted December 30, 2005 Author Posted December 30, 2005 btw, I realised this morning that I never got around to giving The Wife her Christmas card this year!! LOL!! I'd chosen a 'funny' one rather than a soppy one that's normally expected, so maybe it's just as well. So, she hasn't noticed, hasn't given me one either, hasn't even mentioned it. Weird! Maybe she's giving up on me - she doesn't even bother with a peck on the cheek when she goes up to bed these days, just a 'night' and off she goes. Yet, a week or two ago I stayed out later than she was expecting (a meal with my mates) and she was furious when I got home, she'd been worried! I had my cellphone with me, she's normally in bed asleep when I get back, I genuinely didn't believe I'd done anything wrong. She accused me of playing mind games with her (as if - there's not enough mind to play with - joke). She ended up in tears next to me in bed, saying "I'm scared of losing you".. why, I wonder? What's so wonderful about me?! Does she really think this rut's that good?! Or is she just scared of change and losing the comfy-but-dull lifestyle? We need to talk. I've *got*to* tidy up my stuff and then Have The Talk... if I don't face it before Spring arrives I'm even more of a stupid coward than I've been all along!
Author Ditherer Posted December 31, 2005 Author Posted December 31, 2005 OMG!! Life has just given me the most wonderful Christmas present! I've just found out (I can't say how!) that my ex-babe's 'new' bloke is actually one she's known for a long time. She was still after him all the time she was acting out her "being wanted" fanstasy with me! At the same time she was sending ME sweet text messages, she was texting him too - I know because I made notes about all that was happening (glad I did, I'd never have remembered his name otherwise) and he's the bloke who moved away from the area and married, then did the dirty on his wife, but was always 'good friends' with my 'babe' and came back to visit his parents sometimes and always found time to take her out for dinner... I'm so glad I found this out!! The lying cow. I think back to how, earlier this year, she had to 'let him down' and tell him she could never be more than friends.. and all the other stuff, and all the time she was still 'burning a candle for him'... I have a mixture of anger and amusement about this, to be honest. It means she really was never 'mine', and really explains a few of the ups and downs I went through. What fantastic 'closure' this is. Now I see how I never stood a chance, and I choose to use this to explain why I could never quite 'get there' with her (although there's bound to be more to it than that - but I'll pick and choose my version of reality thanks very much!). Wonderful. Even more easy to let go. Of course I still miss her and wonder how's she's getting on, and how it will last (if they've been yearning for each other for years, what are the chances of it lasting - is yearning ever based upon reality, or is it more likely a form of infatuation?), how will she cope if it all falls apart, how would she then feel about me... oh stop it Dith, LOL No, this is good. Whether I've quite let go 100% or not, I now feel I stand more chance of making that last percentage point! Yay
makingthingsright Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 Ditherer- Hi there - I have been following your thread here for a while and have finally gotten the guts to enter the fray. I think I know how you feel to an extent .. I have been, up until recently wondering if it would be worth staying in a marraige that I wasn't committed to. I made the decision not to long ago to break my relationship. (I have come to terms with that part of it, thanks in part to your ordeal. So if it counts for anything, thanks.) I have to wonder - on your part - what SPECIFICALLY is it that is holding you from making the decision? For me it was based soley on my kids, and if I remember correctly, you have at least one child. (forgive me if i am mistaken.) In my experience, when you come THAT close to a decision, you are held back by ONE maybe TWO real issuesl the rest is fluff and stuff too superficial to sweat. Is it lonliness? Is it (like me) losing constant contact with your child(ren)? Do you think that you will never find someone again? I guess - because you helped put my situation on what I think is the right thing for my family - that once you identify the specifics, and put the rest aside, in a box, away from sight, you can bring youself to what really matters. I'm sorry if I rehashed something that was said earlier in this thread - (its a little bit on the long side ) but I am hoping that I can at least contribute to your happiness - like I thiink you have for others. (Sometimes we are better able to make decisions for ourselves when we see others in the same light.) Anyway - hope this helps, and Happy New Year - I think you will technically see yours before I see mine! (by 4 -5 hours...)
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