Stay or go? What on earth do I do now?

[Ditherer]

Ditherer..my situtation is identical to urs...only i'm the wife.

 

I'm so sorry I've only just noticed this message, tucked away above a longer one that caught all of my attention. Are you still with us, lilbo? Can you tell us anything more, please?

[Ditherer]

Thanks again RB, and it sounds like you'll find your way sooner or later. Best of luck!

 

Well, it's all very well dithering about how I might feel if I leave.. how much I'd hurt like I can't imagine.. and all the rest of my what-ifs.. but in the end it all boils down to one simple question : "Do I love my wife or not?" - because if I don't then there's no sane reason to stay with her, even if I'll then miss out on 'family life'.

 

So that's all I have to figure out, now. Given that I can barely stand to look at her, and I avoid her as much as I can, I think that I can't possibly love her. But I do realise that I haven't fully let go of the affair yet, so maybe something will return? I don't recall things being that brilliant BEFORE the affair, but I remember having happy days where I smugly counted all my blessings.. and "a wife that loves me" was one of them. However, I don't ever remember "a wife that I love" being in the list, come to think of it... but in those days I had simply accepted that splitting up was impossible and I just had to accept my lot. Now though, I know I've got an option to leave.. and THAT is the dilemma. Maybe the trick is to tell myself that leaving is *NOT* a real option, so that I have to stay and make the best of it.. I wonder if that would be best for all of us in the long run?

 

I keep telling myself that all this time I've never felt THAT bad, I've never felt as awful I have this year with the heartache from the doomed affair.. so maybe the 'comfortable rut' is worth clinging on to? But that's not entirely true.. I have had a lot of lows & depressions.. the gnawing ill-at-ease unhappiness that I'd have to suppress to make a go of it. And.. I had more thrills and excitement this year than I've ever had with The Wife.

It still feels like I would be lying to myself and deceiving her if I was to stay. I *WANT* to leave, I feel I *NEED* to leave.. but I don't know 100% what I want, what I'd end up with, what I could manage, who'd ever have me, what have I got to offer... so many unknowns. The fun lies with answering these questions I guess, even if those answers turn out to be extremely disappointing once I've left. At least I'll know. Hopefully I'll learn and grow as a person. If I never get to where I'd like to end up, at least I tried.. rather than stay married and stagnate in a situation that leaves me equally frustrated and lonely.

 

*sigh*

 

I'll give it some more time... but if I don't decide to fully commit to one clear path by the time matey #1 gets back from his travels (Easter '06?!) then I'm going to be VERY disappointed with myself and I'll deserve all the insults and lack of respect I'll be due!

[Ditherer]

10.37-11.37pm (another hour of keyboard-bashing therapy)

It's been a surprising evening. I had a taste of the warmth and intimacy from

the pre-affair days.

 

When I got home tonight it started as usual, with me avoiding her as much as possible, wondering what I was still doing here, yet admiring her backside a little more than usual in some tight jeans. I guess I'm getting frustrated after a year and a half.. but then I'm very sure that none of this has ever been about sex.. although I know that it would automatically bring us closer if we did.

 

The evening progressed, mealtime and chores, the kids went to bed, she started to watch some boring TV so I went upstairs to avoid her, resting on our bed listening to the radio. She came in after her tedious TV had finished and there was a silly song on the radio. One great thing we share is a very silly sense of humour.. we love childishly silly stuff - anything absurdly cute or designed to make kids laugh, funny music, etc. I was lying there pretty tired while she ironed some kids clothes for tomorrow.. and this ridiculous song came on. I was grinning like a fool and she started laughing and doing a silly dance. She ended up on top of me for a happy cuddle that could easily have led to more if the kids weren't still awake in nearby rooms.

 

That was that. We came downstairs and watched some quirky comedy that raised a chuckle or two, and off she went to bed. This has left me a bit confused. I had started off today thinking how life had taught me a valuable lesson that affairs aren't worth it - they'll always end badly, and if I seriously want to try my luck with other women I MUST go about it honestly by splitting up first. Then, by the time I got home tonight my thoughts had changed completely. Now I was thinking that I quite clearly didn't love my wife because if I ever get the chance of another affair there's NO WAY I'd pass up the chance.. I miss the thrills too much and want to figure out how much better someone else might be. So, I thought, if moving out was going to be a trauma, an expensive one at that, and I'd miss the kids and mess up everyone's lives.. why not go along with any chances I get to have some fun on the side? While I'm waiting and dithering, hoping for the answer just to come to me.. if anyone wonderful comes along it will make my mind up for me. If I fall for someone again, that'll be the cue for me to finally break free, go for the separation, and hope that the affair can be kept under wraps while the split all gets sorted? Messy though.. dishonest.. a recipe for disaster compared to being a man about it and separating cleanly without complications.

 

But tonight has left me reeling a bit. Just what are these feelings that have been re-awakened? Has it been so long since another adult human being was happy to be close to me, that it didn't matter to me who it was? Was I simply so glad of a bit of intimacy that I'd take it from anyone, or is my wife so special that no-one else will match up? Does sharing a laugh with her mean that the marriage is worth saving? We *CAN* still laugh and enjoy closeness? How valuable is that? Could just about any other future partnership offer the same? Would I find the same again with someone that's even better (more compatible in other ways - the stuff that's always been lacking)?

 

Is this closeness and fun we could still have enough to overcome the flaws that have been making me seriously question the relationship - and that resulted in me looking elsewhere for a romantic buzz? It's going to give me a lot to think about in the next for days while I carry on trying to figure out just how valuable this all is to me.. how special is what we could have *IF* I put in the effort and work at it.. is there enough there, that could be salvaged from this? How brilliant WERE things in years gone by, when this closeness and the laughs were more frequent? Maybe I've forgotten how good it was at times, such is my willingness to try to convince myself I'd be better of scrapping everything and rebuild my life on my own?

 

Or have we only really got along well when conversation wasn't an issue - we've always had our best fun while DOING things, as opposed to sitting around talking... this is why I've been questioning how things will turn out in our later years when talking will just about be all we'll have left! I've been yearning for someone I can really talk to, because even now that I've had a load of happy memories come flooding back, I still don't feel we really connect on the level I'd like with my real 'soulmate'.. and I think just about ANY loving partner is good company while you're DOING things together - so maybe those 'doing stuff' moments aren't so uniquely special to me and her?

 

I've got a taste again of how exactly we HAVE managed to stay together all these years. But I still don't know if it's enough. If I've been fed up and depressed before.. if I've fallen for someone else.. and still want that again.. JUST WHAT THE HECK IS IT I WANT?!! I find myself sometime wondering if I'm compartmentalising (sp?!) things - do I want loving wifey at home adoring me while I go out and try to conquer other fair maidens, worming my way into their affections.. not necessarily a sexual thing, more a load of ego-boosting foolish romantic notion stuff! Am I so insecure that I just want to prove to myself that I'm desirable to someone else? No, I don't think that's the case.. I've been happily planning to divorce, driven by a need to find someone who really feels right, someone who fills all the gaps I've always felt with my wife.

 

Oh.. I'm too tired for this.. time for bed.. so many questions.. so few answers yet. I've got a lot of thinking to do! Good night!

[This_Too_Shall_Pass]

Okay......I'm glad this episode happened, Dithy. This was exactly what I was trying to say in my first few posts to you...what is it you want?

 

So you two have stuck it out together all these years. That takes continuing effort, from her side as well as yours. And I'd asked you this...have you really tried to make an effort on your side?

 

The thing is, there's no such thing as a perfect mate. I don't mean to sound pessimistic here, I'm just saying that none of us is perfect. So even a "soulmate" cannot satisfy all your wishes. The quirky sense of humor that she shares with you, probably makes up for the fact that you two can't really "sit" and "talk" together. I'll tell you from personal experience though, that a great conversation doesn't thrill you forever either.

 

In the end, it's how much that person cares for you.

 

I'm sure you understand that the giddy, euphoric feeling of the early days of love is temporary. I mean, just how many times can you repeat the same flirty dialogues, romantic tactics and sexy glances towards the same person?!! I do understand though, that what you want is someone who you think you get along better with. So if you think you'll be able to take their good along with the bad, that's great.

 

About dithering....one thing I have to say, either you stay whole heartedly, or leave. Better not indulge in affairs on the side. Not only is it cowardly, but the repurcussions can sometimes be so ugly, your life will be worse off than it is right now. Don't try to have your cake and eat it, too.

Either stay or go. Don't fool yourself.

 

And about what you really want....I think you're BORED. Someone mentioned very aptly, that you have reached a plateau phase and you're thinking, "where do I go from here"? Why don't you find something else that challenges and interests you? You were thinking about the affair-babe anyway after you said you'd forgotten her....basically, I think you need to figure out your own self.

 

 

Well, I've said everything that there is to say. Now it's back to the square one for you - you will have to decide to either stay, or go. Don't waste time dithering forever.

[Ditherer]

"no such thing as a perfect mate"? I still don't believe that entirely - I think there can be mates that are pretty much perfect if their limitations aren't an issue, whereas other mates will irritate, have more problematic flaws and simply be nowhere near as good - some would always be better than others, obviously. I know couples that are nuts about each other and have been for years right from the start. My relationship though.. it was one that would have fizzled out in the early days if it wasn't for the fact that I couldn't handle the upset of splitting even back then, and I was too insecure to risk being alone.. haha.. this much hasn't changed a great deal!

 

"it's how much that person cares for you"? Yes that's valuable, but it doesn't FEEL valuable when you don't feel the same in return. How can it be worth hanging on to, if I'm feeling nothing?

 

Affairs? I know they're crap.

My current plan is this : Leave it a while for things to settle. Tidy up my stuff so that nothing will make leaving more difficult than it would be anyway. If I'm still unsure after Xmas, I'll have to tell her how unsure I am about things, and go for a trial sep to sort it out. In the meantime I won't PLAN to have an affair, but if something comes along, I'll try to delay it without jumping in feet first (easier said than done!).. and use it as a signal to jump ship. If I can't figure out what to do then Life Itself is going to have to give me a push in the right direction! Then, if it's worth waiting for it'll keep until the split is sorted.

 

Bored? Absolutely! But I don't know what I could add into my life within my current limitations. Something to think about, yes. I still don't know what would stop me feeling ambivilant about my marriage, or would stop me avoiding her or hating communicating with her. If I'm thus bored with married life and bringing up a family, then maybe single life is worth a try?! I think it's *WHO* I'm married to, that's my problem, unless I'm just a self-obsessed git who doesn't want to be tied down.. to much of a free spirit being hemmed in?

 

"thinking about the affair-babe anyway after you said you'd forgotten her" - yeah.. well.. don't we all get good days and bad days? I'm still trying to get over it totally. I wrote something on a good day and then had some very bad days after I saw her with someone else. I'm still jumping inside when I see women that look a bit too similar. Still... given that we only have room for one special person in our hearts at a time, maybe once she's out of mine as much as she ever will be.. maybe there'll be room for my wife again in there?!

 

"I think you need to figure out your own self" - yeah.. how the heck do I do that?! That's why I'm giving it time. So many things I've yet to fathom out.

 

"Well, I've said everything that there is to say." - yes.. many thanks! Very much appreciated, ta.

 

Tonight I was with a couple who are besotted with each other, made for each other, spark off each other, totally in tune.. their compatibility is AMAZING... it's very hard not to be envious... I've never had that and I'm pretty depressed to think that I might never find it.. if I stay in this rut.

 

Final thought for the day though, thinking positive : If I *do* decide to stay with my wife, it will be because I will have come to realise she's better than ANY other possible women out there... (yeah right! but let's wait and see..) .. in that case.. how lucky am I? I already have the best woman I could possibly have!! LOL

[Ditherer]

I can't believe how positive I was a week ago when I wrote "I've been reading so many threads here on LS and all it all seems so simple! ...(etc)" - if anyone read that last week and swore at their computer/me I can only apologise, as I'm back down in the pits of self-pity myself, again. Today I've been very low and tonight I've been in tears again a few times.

 

While the wife and kids were in other rooms this evening I've had moments to myself and just started sobbing like a lovesick idiot - both about how dead I feel towards my wife and how impossible my situation feels, and about my 'babe'.. I miss her so much.. I miss how I felt when I thought I'd found what I'd yearned for so long.. I miss how great she was to talk to.. so many ways we were well matched.. how she was actually interested in me!.. someone who made my heart leap actually called me darling.. her face lit up like mine when we managed to meet up, with wonderous delight in her beautiful eyes.. this heart-melting special young woman walked with me arm in arm.. and kissed me.. and wondered if we'd end up married.. and then... because I handled things badly.. I lost her.. she lost interest, couldn't cope with the guilt, lost hope that I'd ever fully be hers and shut me out of her life. Doesn't even want to stay in touch. Doesn't even care how I'm doing. So many times I had the chance to keep her as a good friend with future potential simmering away under the surface.. but I've even lost that. And now she's in love with someone else, better than me. I'd partially hoped she'd end up with someone worse than me.. (LOL!) in a barely satisfactory relationship that I could tempt her away from when I was single.. haha.

I've been in denial for months, hoping that if I was to make the break she'd still be interested.. even if she'd been out with other guys.. maybe she'd find that no-one quite matched me.. doesn't that sound pathetic?!! I wonder how many times in history a couple have split because things were too difficult, dated other partners, and then came together again in a blissful true-love reunion? That's one way to describe the mathematical concept of zero...

 

My head's spinning with it all.. I just hope I don't lose the plot completely and have a breakdown. I feel so trapped. I still feel nothing for my wife, except the occasional warmth of close friendship that is as good as it gets. A good-night hug a few minutes ago felt wonderfully warm on a purely physical level, but absolutely empty in my heart. She asked if I was starting to love her again.. I couldn't say anything but brush it off with a "don't be silly".. how can I *DO* this?! How can I live with what I've done?! Somehow I have to keep going with this charade, this loveless farce, until somehow I manage to get my affair out of my head - easier said than done when she felt like my soulmate. OK, she got into my heart further than anyone else has ever reached.. but not totally all of the time, she didn't prove herself to be The One. I know I have to let go, I wish I could, but the uncertainty kills me. I know she was REALLY keen, and only let me go because of some weird catholic guilt trip, finally losing respect for me because I became so feeble and over-emotional about it. But nothing REALLY bad happened. There were no arguments or really bad moments with each other. It all went wrong for us in our own time apart from each other, as she thought about it and gave up on me, and I got so scared of losing her that I behaved in ways she'd never have seen under normal circumstances - i.e. just making me very negative when we talked.. which sealed my fate. DAMN!!!

 

If by some miracle I can actually let go (HOW LONG does it take?!!), maybe I'll be in a position to make a sensible decision about starting to talk to my wife about how horribly unsure I feel about our marriage, my lifestyle, our future together.. and negotiate a trial sep. But now it's even harder to leave my kids and only see them once/twice a week - our youngest has discovered how uttering "love you" gets a very favourable response from us.. and is now old enough to run to me gleefully saying "Daddy!" when I come home.. and kisses me like it's really meant (as opposed to younger infants when you're never quite sure why they're doing it!). So is *this* what it's come to? Putting up with a barely comfortable (mostly miserable) rut just because there isn't QUITE enough reason to justify causing so much pain for us all? It's almost making my mind up for me - if I'm likely to spend the rest of my life in a loveless marriage feeling this empty, I might as well go. But it's **SO** scary!

 

Today on another thread I found some home truths : that men do leave unhappy marriages but not tolerable ones... (thanks!). So.. like I heard from my mate, who said that I'll have to hit rock bottom first - I've got to face letting it get even *worse* before I'll ever be able to justify going! Great! I'd like to pray for the start of another affair, both to get the first one out of my system and give me a reason to go.. but I don't know if I can ask for that. Oh I've had enough.. good night for now.. have a nice weekend good people. Wishing you all better luck than I'm having!

[MassiveAtom]

In a nutshell : bored with my rut, I don't

believe I'll ever fully love my wife, I avoid

her whenever I can, things will only get worse,

what do I do?

 

That's all I needed,

 

 

get out.

 

get on with your life.

 

and most importantly HEAL!

 

well you'll have some forgiving to do too, but that comes.

 

Hi everybody!

[Ditherer]

er, thanks MassiveAtom.

 

A poor night's sleep.. tired today, still crying this morning. Luckily I get Saturday daytimes to myself (otherwise I'd go mad!) - she takes the kids and goes out, so I can do as I please. I realised today that in a good relationship that even if I still needed time to myself and my mates.. it would be a BALANCE - I'd enjoy time to myself AND time with my partner... but in this marriage no matter how much I get to avoid her I STILL don't look forward to the time WITH her! That must say it all, yes?!

 

After a lie-in that didn't really help, and some chores, I phoned my here-and-there-once-in-a-while girl friend ( C from my first post - standing for "Crush"! F was "Fling"!) and had a nice chat for about half an hour. She's not too well, very stressed from looking after 4 kids single-handed, her divorce still isn't sorted and her Soon-To-Be-X-Husband is being a pig. Her new man is keeping her guessing as to how keen he is - hot one minute and cold the next, the swine. We had plenty to talk about! Lot's of her friends are also splitting and everyone turns to her for support because they envy her courage, the way she left, how she's managing. She says if I'm really not happy with things I've no option but to leave. It's exactly what I want to hear.. so that cheered me up a lot. She also want to meet up for a coffee one morning soon.. which give me something slightly 'naughty' to look forward to as some small thrill in life. I think I'd like to become a "thrill-seeker", I need some excitement to relieve the monotony!

 

I spent time with two of my mates today, first one didn't want to hear my dthering any more so I stuck to other subjects. The second buddy got a bit fed up with my same old aimless approach to the whole thing.. he was tired too and we nearly argued about it.. somehow we stayed civil.. but he's getting really fed up with me complaining how I don't know what to do or how to face what I suspect is inevitable... leaving. I can't blame him.

 

Back home for the evening (heart sinks at the thought), and Wifey was in a foul mood, shouting at me and the kids as is so often the case. Apparently I've been a miserable ***** today, "Why?" she asked, "you were so much nicer last week" - I had to laugh to myself considering that last week I'd just seen affair-babe with her new bloke and was dying inside ... so I must have been covering it well or she's CRAP at "reading me"! I played a small innocent trick on her (seeing if she'd notice the difference between something getting on a bit or the fresher one she was expecting - she couldn't tell!) and she didn't take it well.. I was "always hiding things".. and "people have told me you're sly"... hahahah.. she wouldn't say WHO had said that. LOL. Does anyone think this bloody marriage is worth saving, as if that's possible?!

 

Well, that was my day. What fun I have. Tomorrow, another dull Sunday putting up with it all... why, I don't know... I'm so close to getting back to where I was when I had DEFINITELY decided to leave (before my heart was broken by F and my plans were thrown off-course somewhat). I'm still a bit disillusioned and don't believe I'll ever find anyone else I'll fancy, on my wavelength again.. but if it takes me YEARS to find someone it'll STILL be better than hanging around here, wasting my life on this dead-end.

 

But we'll see... ditheringly yours...

[Ditherer]

Today, a new insight, more clarity about the affair and why it was doomed. I was daydreaming a little fantasy that I'd met someone rather gorgeous and was getting to know her.. but she was married, unhappily. We talked and got closer and closer.. etc etc.. and amongst much wonderful kissing she said "I thought no-one would ever want me again!" and *DING* - the warning bell rang clearly! How would I feel if this actually happened to me? I wouldn't want to risk getting closer to someone who was so likely to hurt me. If they're that insecure, on the rebound, falling for you way too quickly, it's just not right. If you're the first person that's taken in interest in them for years, or they can't believe their luck because they feel worthless and unattractive... it's NOT the Real Thing. Of course I knew all this before, and I have already tried to see things from F's point of view by reversing the roles, but this sudden "of course!" moment this morning was exactly what I needed. Yes, in that position I'd want her to leave her husband if she was as unhappy as she said, I'd want her to sort herself out and get used to being single on her own, and THEN, *ONLY* then, if she was still interested.. maybe it could be worth getting involved. But if she was getting clingy, upset that I was backing off and getting unsure, if she carried on pressing me to not rule out "One Day" each time I said we could only be Just Good Friends for now... wow.. it all clicked into place at last! I even understand now (I think!) why she had to sever all contact with me when someone else came along. *I* wouldn't want my daydream babe to keep on torturing herself over whether I was going to give her a chance or not, if she was really taking her time over leaving her husband.. if she was agonising over hurting him even though she'd be saying how she doesn't really love him.. etc.. etc.. it's so bloody OBVIOUS now! F *SAID* it wasn't fair to me, for her to keep me hoping. She was doing the right thing for me.. for both of us. So obvious.. why did it take me over two months to get here.. how freakin' DUMB am I??!!

Yes, I'd ignore fantasy-babe and hope she sorts herself out. I'd think fondly of her, I'd still care, but I'd *have* to let her go and not get in touch. If someone else came along in the meantime my heart would be available for them, and any future romance with the the first one would depend upon her setting herself free and then getting in touch when she's ready, if I was free then too. No matter *how* curious I'd be in the meantime, I couldn't afford to get involved at any level, *ANY* friendliness or support would be encouraging her, and leaving her marriage would something she has to do totally for herself. Even if I thought she was stunning and fanstastic company, and if I couldn't wait to get to know her better, I still couldn't face dealing with her while she's not fully single and happy with it... with no continuing ties to her ex-hubby. Kids - no problem, but if she's still too concerned for ex-hubby then warning bells would be ringing.. steer clear.

 

So I'm more "at peace" with the situation now. I think some of the above is plausible, given all that happened and all I remember her saying.. although I'm also fairly sure she went off me too - and wouldn't give me a second chance anyway, LOL. But I can convince myself that the "best case scenario" would still result in what I'm going through now, I can expect to NEVER hear from her again.. unless I do leave my marriage and get settled into single life.. I'm wasting my time thinking about her at all. I knew that much already, but today it feels like I've got it all worked out, I've a good explanation that suits me.. I can fool myself that she might still wonder what could have been, and it allows me to kid myself that if we're ever both single we might be able to pick up and see where it would have led (probably nowhere, but at least I'd know for sure!). I know I should really let go completely, but I've tried that and it hasn't worked yet. This way, keeping a small sliver of hope, allows me to feel less of a failure. I'm back at the point where I often managed to hold onto some happiness.. when I used to get the Just Good Friends line and persuaded her not to rule out our "One Day".. the main difference now is that we're not friends any more.. we're not in contact at all! But having that tiny HOPE makes a difference to my comfort levels at the moment, regardless of how unhealthy it is to my recovery.. it's better to delude myself about future possibilities, to be cheerful and let the future take care of itself... better than miserably facing the fact that in reality there's no chance at all, and weep over it. That sucks, and doesn't seem to cure things.

 

So I'm also wasting my time hoping to start *another* affair as an encouragement to leave my wife. No-one worth having is going to be interested in me like this. If I was to meet someone who seems special and I wasn't giving of a bad aura of "watch out, I'm a big seething bag of problems".. I'd have to back off and hope they'd still be around and still available x months later. I'm going to have to hope for some other clear Sign From Above, hehe... how about.. suddenly having enough belief in myself that I know what I've got to do..

 

If I could just figure out what to do about this marriage. Bits of this lifestyle are comfortable enough, but I can't feel anything for my wife yet. We had a terrible lunch today at a cafe that kept us waiting stupidly long. It was a HOUR before we finally got the food we ordered.. and in all that time we only talked to the kids, not each other. What is the POINT of living with her..? I'll give it time still.. I've told my mates there's at least 1 week's ban on talking about it.. to give us all a rest! I can't imagine my feelings will change much, but now that I feel I've laid the affair to rest.. now I've convinced myself she probably doesn't think badly of me, just pities me a bit and hopes I sort myself out... maybe I can stop thinking about HER so much and get back to "neutral" .. and to who-knows-where from there.

 

I could probably say wardrobe eating space alien maggot gunge at this point, because no-one's still reading.. but I feel better for it anyway. I like to chronicle this stuff, hopefully I'll look back on it one day and laugh! Thanks LS. This thread has been read a fair few times though, by the looks of it *grin*. I'm still interested in anything anyone could say, especially if they've been here.. but I think cases like this may be too specific to be easily compared.

 

Wishing you a dither-free week...

[This_Too_Shall_Pass]

WHEW!! Managed to skim thru your thesis, Dithy You sure have a lot of stamina writing all that!

 

I don't think I have anything new to say - in fact, I think nobody has anything new to say, including yourself!

 

Just thought I'd advise you to take SOME action now. You've dithered enough. So, I see that you finally have decided for sure that there just isn't any warm feeling between you and your wife, and from the looks of it, the effort required by you to rekindle any closeness isn't worth it. You'd hardly be pleased with the result, anyway.

 

So why not take the first step, talk to her that you're going to leave? And in a week or so, do that. And for heaven's sake, don't counter this by bringing up reasons why you can't make up your mind yet!

Just DO it, you'll feel relieved. Que sera sera..

[Ditherer]

WHEW!! Managed to skim thru your thesis, Dithy You sure have a lot of stamina writing all that!

 

Yeah, I just keep going and going!

 

.. take SOME action now. You've dithered enough...

for heaven's sake, don't counter this by bringing up reasons why you can't make up your mind yet!

 

Aw, don't stop me now, I'm enjoying this misery!

[Ditherer]

More thoughts helping me let go of the fun I had, drawing a line under the affair and consigning it to the past where it belongs...

 

I'd bet good money on her not lasting long with her new bloke.. or ANY blokes for quite some time.. possibly for ever. Why?

First, she's got not one but TWO fairly serious on-going medical conditions that could at any time see her hospitalised, or Heaven forbid, pass away. These leave her weak often, tiring easily, aching, prone to moodiness, and restrict the kind of activities that could be enjoyed with her. And asthma too! Now, I was willing to ignore all that, savour whatever time I had with her and enjoy being there to care and support her. I got off on feeling sorry for her and wanting to be there for her. But many blokes would find this scary, and might not want to get involved with someone they could fall for and then loose horribly a year or two later.

Secondly, she's got a whole raft of anxieties, phobias, obessive compulsive and panic attack issues, which would make life a bit too.. interesting!

Third, in the short time I got to know her I found it worrying quite a few times just how self-absorbed, a bit selfish and inflexible she can be. Not willing to give an inch or compromise. Control-freaky. She holds onto past upsets and brings them up again and again, she doesn't forgive easily. She admitted she'd never had a good relationship in her life and doesn't have any good friends. What social life she has revolves around mummy and looking after nieces and nephews. Some odd tastes in things would make compatibility questionable, some real deal-breakers as far as I'm concerned (can't say what!). Not really my ideal mate!

Fourthly, after a lifetime of all sorts of hassles and problems, and being out of work existing on hand-outs, she's understandably prone to very poor self-esteem. She's the jealous type, and would always be wondering if I was interested in other women (I *wasn't* - but how long would that last?) ... I've had THAT before and I know how destructive it is.

Apart from all that, she's lovely! LOL - she *DID* really steal my heart despite all that. But.. given how *CERTAIN* I am that she's going to carry on getting dumped time and time again, why on earth do I think it could have worked out with me?!! I'm not superhuman enough! I *thought* I'd manage perfectly well if I felt as strongly as I did, and if she was besotted with me too, we could work our way through anything. But what are the odds of success? If I'm *SO* sure she won't last with her current bloke, that really should warn me off.

I'm increasingly coming to realise she was like a rebound job for me - after so many dull years with my wife, and no interest from anyone else... not believing I'd ever get any real chemistry that I yearned for... she just happened to be the first girl to come along who did spark with me and was interested. But as I'm still married, I'm not in any sensible position to get involved with anyone, and I'm all too painfully aware I'm not even fully in touch with what I really want yet.

 

I'm closer to letting go 100%, thankfully. Yeah, I'd still jump at the chance to get closer to her than I did, but I know it's history, it's over, it's not coming back... I might as well mourn that my 21st birthday can never be relived, or get cheesed off missing those wonderfully instant and impressive er**tions from those carefree teenage years, LOL. It's gone - get used to it.

 

What I could do, I suppose, is redefine what I was trying to achieve with her. Yes, I ended up falling so deep that I wanted as much as possible (against my better judgement), but maybe if I tell myself I only started off just seeing how far I could get.. I wanted to see if I could make her want me.. if THAT was my mission I *KNOW* I succeeded (the texts, the phone calls when we were BOTH in tears of frustration proved that). It's not as if I was ever likely to get as far as moving in with her or getting married. And given that what she REALLY wants is to settle down with the husband she's always dreamt of.. there's no way I could have given her what she's after. She's better off without me, that's for sure - and I REALLY hope she grows as a person and finds what she wants. She does deserve it, after all she's been through.

 

So why do I get upset still? Why the bad days? What I miss most about her are things I should be able to find with someone better, who isn't plagued with so many negatives. That is assuming I ever want to get involved with anyone ever again. Today I think I really need to be alone for some time before losing my heart again. I don't want to sleep around, I don't want to use girls and dump them, mess with lives, if I fall for someone again it has to be because it feels FANSTASTIC and worth doing. It's amazing how much calmer I feel when I think I can survive on my own without needing someone else to make me complete!

 

I hope I've nailed the lid shut on this one now. Please God let that be the end of it. Let me move on and deal with the Marriage Issue!!!

[whatafool]

Dear Ditherer, I am getting a bit confused with your posts.

 

You talk about the power of feelings that you had/have for your affair partner, but that she wants a real relationship, marriage etc. and after she could see that you were not going to give you this ended the relationship. This seems a sensible move.

 

Now you are angry with her for ending the relationship which was everything for you, you saw her as your soul mate and everything that you had ever wanted in a woman.

 

So the million dollar question that every OW would like to know is why did you not leave your mediocre marriage for her - the feelings were obviously there on both sides.

[Ditherer]

Why can't I edit my post?

 

I can edit this one, but not yesterday's.. this is upsetting.

[Ditherer]

Thanks for asking those questions. You've given me a great chance to 'summarise' the whole thing (as if I could ever summarise anything!).

I can't believe this answer will be worth a million dollars.. *grin* ..although I'll make it long enough to have *cost* me a million of something! I might be an extreme case with THIS much dithering, so what better case to learn from?! If you really want a pretty comprehensive list of the tons of stuff that us MM might worry about, read on...

 

Before the $1,000,000 stuff, let me answer your first points. I'm angry with her for not staying in touch as friends, although I know why, and I'm more angry with myself for missing so many chances to have ended up that way. It sucks to still be so interested in someone's welfare and they don't want to know. They seemed to care so much for me and now they don't give a ****!

It's such a waste when one person cares and it means NOTHING to the other (but at least this makes it easier for me to put no value on how much my wife still loves me, when I don't feel the same). I've learnt that caring only matters when it's mutual.. and the same goes for love.. if it's not reciprocated don't waste your time. I was listing all her faults to try to achieve some sort of balance, to help me cope - remembering all the negatives to counteract all the good stuff I miss so much. I regretted that posting soon afterwards, it's not a nice one... and although she's not likely to ever read it, she might recognise herself from that lot.. which would give the game away somewhat! I'd like to edit it later, to make things less obvious, just in case a cow jumps over a blue moon while hell freezes over.

 

Yes, I *WAS* preparing to leave my wife, I was just taking my time over it! But she told me not to rush, she said she'd wait for me - and she then started backing off.. so it got very complicated. I had decided to leave, and was just a week or two away from it when she turned her back on me completely - this has upset me so much that it's thrown me far off course, and I still don't know if I'm in enough control of my feelings to make a sane decision yet. I'm glad she doesn't know if I've left yet, because I think she'd smugly congratulate herself for dumping me, thinking that I didn't really mean it, when *I* know I did. I'm getting back to agreeing with my earlier decision to leave, but my continued dithering has told me something - I had been mixing two issues too much. Leaving for her wasn't right, I have to leave for myself - because the marriage is over. I thought I'd separated the two sides of the coin well enough, but if I still can't face divorce when there's no-one waiting for me, it shows that my judgement was clouded? Or maybe it *was* clear enough, and it's clouded NOW!

 

So... why didn't I go?

In my case, there are two main collections of reasons why I didn't leap readily out of marriage. The first lot concerns the state of my relationship with my affair partner, and probably doesn't apply to most OW who want the $$million answer.. Because, I suppose.. deep down I knew on a subconcious level that even though we got along really well.. even though she was attractive enough to melt me.. even though there was a spark there that I had never felt before.. even though all these wonderful feelings I've wanted so badly for so long were stronger than I'd ever felt for anyone before.. we were only at the initial flirting stage. This wasn't a physical affair, remember. She kept backing off, and I didn't get any good chances to date her in any normal ways. I have no idea how a meal with her would have gone, no idea how an evening snuggling in front of the TV would have been, no idea how spending a cold rainy dull Sunday with her would have been.. or spending hours at her parents house.. too many unknowns.. I simply don't know and never will. I kept telling her that we should get to know each other better, but she started avoiding me, saying she didn't want to get too close and get hurt. It was borderline how much motivation there was for me to make a huge, drastic change to my life (affecting so many people), just for a *chance* to get to know her better.

 

*IF* she had been more keen, *IF* she had really genuinely made me feel far fewer doubts, *if* we'd been absolutely astonished how much we'd wanted each other... if had felt RIGHT then I would have left my wife - no doubt about it. But no, I knew things weren't totally right, although I really wanted to ignore the problems or solve them.. and she didn't want me enough. It was a buzz for her at first, she was on the rebound from being dumped badly, she wanted to feel special and desired, it was a thrill to have a married man after her, she said I was too good for her but later I didn't meet all her requirements and her 'butterflies' had weakened. It wasn't Meant To Be, but I still had a hard time accepting this and dealing with it. I'm inexperienced, and desperate for the Real Thing!

 

I think the affair I prayed for really was a gift from above. It was absolutely PERFECT to teach me whatever lesson.. I don't know what that lesson is yet.. but whatever it turns out to be.. she was PRECISELY suited for the role! I asked for an affair that wouldn't go anywhere and it didn't! I wasn't MEANT to leave my wife for her, I'm sure of that. I think I'm meant to learn from this, to examine everything in the light of what I've discovered, and make a decent decision what to do about my obviously bad marriage. It amazes me how perfect she was for this. We met with specific things in common that made it easy to start talking. I felt sorry for her and this played to my nurturing protective instincts. There was JUST enough attraction to make it happen, but not enough for it to become adulterous or more. She doesn't know anyone I know, even in this small town.. pretty incredible.. and it helped me 'get away with it' and not get found out. And now she we haven't a clue how each other are doing, we've no mutual friends to pass on information - so there's a clear end to it. So many other things all fall into place (yes maybe it's just a hindsight sort of thing) that it just seems to be an amazingly self contained as a relationship that can easily be slotted into my past and left there. None of my friends even know her name, I always called her 'babe'. There's no lingering evidence... unless the diary-like text file I keep all this in gets found.. then I'm screwed!

 

The second bunch of reasons are more general, and are still things I'm grappling with, as I dither about whether to stay in a barely comfortable rut or face a scarily new challenge of living alone with chances to find what I want. Something here may be worth a dollar? Perhaps not... but selection of some of this lot probably weighs heavily on the mind on anyone who faces the choice of leaving....

 

INERTIA: I'm very resistant to change, it takes a lot to make me make a move.. but I would eventually.

FEAR: I'm too fearful and inexperienced, not very self-confident, I doubted my ability to cope. I think I'd be ok, I hope so, I normally deal with things alright, but I don't know if I'd get very depressed.

SUPPORT: I'm fairly sure I'd need a lot of support from friends at first. At the moment none of them would have much time for me. One with lots of time will return from his travels in a few months time. This is putting me off making a move right now.

COPING: I've never lived alone before. The practical aspects of looking after myself wouldn't scare me, but how would I manage mentally? Trouble is, I can get a bit cranky, I've had a few brushes with mild mental illnesses before, many years back (been fine since). Nothing major, I guess I'd find a way to cope. If I endended up losing a lot of sleep, I fear I could

go downhill rapidly, maybe end up phobic and stuck indoors. Hopefully my wife would know not be too hard on me or make my life miserable, because I could lose my job and I wouldn't be able to support them.

EFFECTS ON KIDS: I don't want to mess up my kids lives, but I think they'd manage. If I carry on coldly in this marriage it's going to affect them anyway. One is at a crucial stage of development and I don't want lifelong damaging effects. A few more months really will make a difference... and this is a depressing time of year to leave.. spring is a better time to spring-clean my life

MISSING THE KIDS: I'd miss seeing the kids grow up, but I'd manage if I had enough access.. and it's not a good enough reason to stay. The Marriage is between me and my wife only - I'll always be a father no matter what. But I suspect she may allow the kids things that I've always disagreed with (I've had my way so far) just to annoy me, specific things will REALLY p*** me off. Also, I may have to face that if she finds a new man, he'll be trying to take my place in the fatherly role. This hurts, I'm told.

CAUSING HURT: I don't want to hurt my wife, even though I'm certain it will happen one day. So why wait?! I'm already hurting her by being so cold. Deceiving myself will only hurt her in the long run anyway. It's the major sudden shock of me leaving that's the worst. It terrifies me how we'd get through it.

WILL SHE COPE: I'm worried how my wife will take it, hearing about suicide attempts scares me. The worst would be if she went for it and "took the kids with her". I don't know how she'll cope as a single mum. I still care enough for her (as I would for anyone I know) that I'd ***REALLY*** hate the thought of putting her through it.. but I know that's not a good enough reason to avoid it or delay it.

REACTIONS: The reaction from friends and family, especially hers.. although this is easy enough to deal with - if anyone reacts badly they aren't worth worrying about. My parents will be very stressed with it, and they're not very well at the moment. I don't want to add to their burden quite yet.

ESCAPING: My prefered 'escape route' is my parent's place - I've nowhere else to go - until a get a flat. Until my parents are better, I feel trapped. But the clock is ticking against me, they're looking to sell up for a smaller place!

GUILT: The feeling of letting her down, weaseling out of a committment made in church in front of God, all my family, and friends. But I shouldn't blame myself too harshly for the way it's turned out, if I genuinely believe that leaving is right for us all in the long run. It's not too late to stop the madness and finally stand up for what I've wanted for so long.. to get out.

MORALITY: My beliefs - but by now I believe my vows are too broken to apply any more. I vowed to love her, and if that's gone (or was never there to begin with) then it's Game Over. In my prayers I work my way through how I feel and ask that nothing will happen unless He's ok with it.

CERTAINTY/REGRET: Being uncertain how much I'd look back with regret. All this stuff about the grass not being greener.. not knowing what you've got til it's gone, etc. I've always been *VERY* wary of taking actions I might regret later. I've always played safe. I'm "risk-averse"! But having said that, I've always adapted to change perfectly well. It's easier to deal with what you've DONE wondering about what might have been, or what you SHOULD have done.

EXPENSE: The cost of divorce, luckily I should be able to afford it. Not sure how much of the house she'd be entitled to - my lawyer couldn't really say. And what would my lifestyle be like in a rented flat? There would be on-going costs, she'd always be asking for more, and would I be able to get by? I could live very cheaply, but then if I found someone special.. that could get hard to fund. It's not cheap to live an active social life, trying to impress. Perhaps the Right Person wouldn't mind.. yeah right!

INFINITE HASSLE: The incredible amount of stuff to deal with.. paperwork, meetings, courts.. a nightmare! But worth facing, it wouldn't be forever. Plus I've got so much tidying up to do - all my stuff - moving it all from home. And there are also a number of things to be fixed around the house before I'd be happy leaving her to it. Further problems with the house would also drain my wallet, as I'd still be co-owner.

WHAT FUTURE?: I'm uncertain whether I'd find anyone again, or if I'd be happy on my own - so is it worth hanging on to the Devil-I-know for 'companionship'.. even though it's mostly too unhappy to appreciate.. but maybe if I made more effort...? This one is countered by Thinking Positive - I'd make my future what I want it to be, somehow. But I don't really know what I want. Would I want a long-term relationship again? What if I fell for someone who wanted me.. and kids! Could I face that again? Can I face the heartache of future failed relationships? But can I face another 30 years with my wife!?!

WORTH STAYING?: Maybe it's as good as it gets anyway? Is there anyone better out there? Have I lost sight of something? Would living with someone else REALLY get this bad after the initial magic wears off? Do I really WANT to ever live with someone again? Would I prefer my freedom to come and go as I please? Or would I want to glue myself to The One if such a person exists? Or if I WORKED at my marriage, would it be worth it? I don't think so, but I'm not entirely sure.

HEALTH: What if my health suffers in future? My wife would be my carer to help me through it.. I'd lose that. But maybe she'd get fed up with me anyway? What if the stress of leaving makes me ill?

SEX: If I rescued the marriage enough, this could happen again. If I leave, I risk never getting it ever again! This is the last on my list because it's not so important. It *is* a concern, but I've been OK for a year and a half without it, so I know I can go without. And I can't imagine being with her again, so it's a moot point.

 

If all those reasons to worry about leaving aren't enough, there's a whole bunch of other concerns, if I was to stay...

Yes I'd keep the 'easy' comfortable boring rut, but I'd never be truly happy. I'd be 'Sacrifice Man' - able to leap tall buildings in a single bound of 'doing it to keep someone else happy'. No freedom. I'd end up jumping at any chances of affairs - with disastrous results. It wouldn't be fair on my wife to live such a lie, either. The kids would know that all wasn't well - they pick up on these things.

I'd miss out who-knows-what. Single life *COULD* be fantastic. Then again it might not be.

I might miss my chance to find my true love. She could be out there somewhere waiting for me! Even a string of short-lived romances is more fun than what I'm expecting if I stay.

At least single life would allow me to leave behind a whole load of tedious chores.. but then I'd feel guilty that my ex-wife would be landed with them!

It could all end unhappily anyway, eventually. Probably will. Bound to, in fact. Why prolong it?

We're not getting any younger. We're young enough to start *something* again, but the sooner the better. Why am I denying my wife a chance to find someone better for her?

Will I miss my chance to go? We're young and healthy enough for a second chance. We both have family and friends for support. What if my escape route goes? What if I lose my job and can't afford to leave? (Once I've left I'd HAVE to face any crisis, but such things could stop me going at all). What if illness or bereavements make it a lot more difficult to leave? If life took a turn for the worse, I'd be EVIL to leave her to it. I can get out now without being seen to be THAT bad. I'm simply being honest and true to myself.

 

When I look at that lot, it's no wonder I'm dithering! I know people are getting fed up with it (I am too!) but if anyone says I'm weak and indecisive it doesn't bother me - they've no idea what it's like in my position. I'll make my mind up when I'm good and ready - when I'm sure beyond reasonable doubt - when I **KNOW** that I won't look back with regret because I made the best choice that I could. At least if a try my Trial Sep strategy, I may have the safety-net of being able to return and sort it out.

 

I think FEAR is the main reason. If I had a crytal balls and could tell that everything would work out OK, I'd jump at the chance to get away (and wince as the crystals clanged together). This is probably why people think I'm a coward for dithering so long. If the kids, the house, the legal issues, the word "divorce", the aggravations, what people think.. if ALL of that could be

brushed aside and the only single question was "Is this relationship worth clinging onto?".. I'd feel it would be a "NO!"... but then I'd *still* be afraid of how I'd feel to let go!

I paused here for a minute. Then I asked myself "Would I REALLY suddenly find I miss her?!".. and I'm 80% feeling "I don't see how I would! Perhaps certain things.. anyone would miss.. but I wouldn't miss what I was expecting the future to have been".. so maybe I should work on this and use it as my

'barometer of decisiveness', LOL

 

So you'll have to dig your million dollars worth of answer out of that lot! I suppose for most OW the reason the MM doesn't leave is simply that he isn't sure how things will turn out. He doesn't know how the affair will survive the change into a normal relationship. He can't face the hassle of leaving, when his life is comfortable enough compared to the uncertainties of Divorced Life - he doesn't want to abandon Everything He Knows and start from the bottom again with less respect from everyone he knows.. his perceived status would be damaged. Plus, why change anything if he can "have his cake and eat it"? If you're an OW reading this and you want 'your' man that badly, then for Heaven's sake tell him if you want him to yourself, and give him a reasonable period of time to get his act together. After then, if he STILL won't leave, there's your answer - he doesn't love you enough. Not as completely as you want. If that's not enough for you, then however much it hurts you MUST save your life by letting go, it won't work with him. Cut him out of your life COMPLETELY with NO CONTACT, and move on. You wasted your time with him, but don't blame yourself, as you weren't to know.. just learn from it and be stronger. And good luck to you!

[Ditherer]

ooh, did I miss one?!

 

EVER FREE?: Will I ever be truly free from my wife, even when divorced? There will always be things she can pester me about, especially arrangements with the kids. This one is not really worth worrying about, but it may as well be added to the list!

 

The good thing about dithering is that new ways of looking at things sometimes crop up. This morning I realised how many people cling on to broken relationships because they're too scared to let go and start again. What would I tell someone else in a position like mine?... if you know deep down that things aren't right.. and it isn't fixable.. then just bite the bullet and move on! That massive 'summary' post yesterday could have all been replaced by a bit of the simple 'In A Nutshell' sentence that started this whole thread : "I don't believe I'll ever fully love my wife, things will only get worse".

 

And another one : Why let all the hassles and fears cloud my judgement? It's all about me and my wife - so why not ask : "What if things were MUCH worse, and I actually *despised* my wife?" ... in that case I'd leave and let everything else fall into place, I'd cope with the consequences.. so why am I worrying about them?

 

I hope this means I'm making some progress!

 

(PLEASE let me edit my previous posts!!)

[whatafool]

Dear Ditherer - amazing reply:)

 

Do you dither so much about other decisions. For example I could say, I think that I will go shopping today, but wait a minute, I might have an accident in my car, or my car won't start, or it might get stolen, or I might get mugged, or it might rain, or I might get struck by lightening, or someone might start an argument with me, or I might get run over. On the other hand if I did go I might find some really nice clothes, or I might find some money in the street, or I might meet the man of my dreams, or I might buy a winning lottery ticket etc. etc. etc.

 

What I am asking is are you the type of person that goes through this agony over everything? I tend to make my decisions and just do it - nothing so bad that I could not handle it has ever happened to me. However, I can imagine my exMM going over exactly the same line of thinking as you are and the never ending procrastination drove me nuts.

 

I believe that ending a marriage and starting a new relationship are two different issues. I would be petrified if someone ended their marriage for me, it would just put too much onus on me to be wonder woman, and I am not. Perhaps your affair babe thought the same and that is why she backed off. I think you should really think of these two subjects as separate, which I know that you are now doing.

 

Also another thing is that sometimes you just have to do 'nothing' and then it just comes to you what the right thing to do is. I think that you have done far too much thinking about the whole thing and are gridlocked in your head on the subject, I'll bet you did not do such an extensive analysis on if you should get married in the first place! Why not just 'hang' and do nothing - hopefully the right answer will come to you when you stop trying to work things out so hard.

 

The bottom line is what is the worst thing that could happen - there is not one problem that you have listed that you could not handle if it did happen and if it ends up the worst thing is you are all by yourself, that is not so bad either - I believe that living alone is better than living in a situation you are not happy in, to me that would be like a prison and I believe that is how you feel. If you are alone you still have no end of options open to you, in an unhappy situation you have few but to knuckle down.

 

So that's my advice to all Ditherers chill and hang but be true to yourself. Someone once said (don't know who) they would rather have day of pure happiness in their life than a lifetime of mediocrity - I like that thought. Good luck.

 

PS: The answer to the $$million$$ question is 'fear of the unknown'

[Outcast]

You have listed a rather impressive set of reasons why you are probably not 'in love' at all with this person but rather in the throes of infatuation.

 

Love is never enough for a successful relationship. You must also be able to live together and while her physical illnesses might not need to be an issue, her other troubles would definitely be daunting.

 

You and our other ditherer, Midlifecrazy, seem to both be suffering the same syndrome, namely:

 

I don't know if I can happily live on my own

 

You say

 

But if all my friends are busy, then by the end of the day I'm starting to feel lonely.

 

So it's to you to decide which is worse - loneliness or unfulfilling relationship. It's generally self-destructive to stay in a bad relationship just because you're afraid to be on your own. It also means you need to do a bit more maturing, I'm afraid. Nobody should need other people to be whole. This doesn't mean you don't love others and enjoy their company and even miss them, but you should be able to function solo.

 

So, basically, since you have already figured out how to leave, it's to you to grow the nads to do it.

[Ditherer]

Thanks to you both, but it's late and I'll need a while to mull all that over.

Give me a day to come back to you please...

 

Many thanks

[whatafool]

Hi Ditherer, was just re-reading your post and this is a bit that I just don't get

 

<quote>It's not as if I was ever likely to get as far as moving in with her or getting married. And given that what she REALLY wants is to settle down with the husband she's always dreamt of.. there's no way I could have given her what she's after. She's better off without me, that's for sure - and I REALLY hope she grows as a person and finds what she wants. She does deserve it, after all she's been through.</quote>

 

Did you mean this, or was it just a bad day, you say that there is no way you could have given her what she's after, ie. marriage, but I thought that was the whole point of all your postings you 'were' trying to work out a way of giving her what she was after, you said yourself you intended to leave your wife and be with her before she backed off - if you were saying the above to her I am not surprised she backed off.

 

The reason I found all your posts so fascinating is that everything you are saying, particularly above quote, is exactly what my xMM said to me - so much so that you could be him - I just got fed up with it all in the end, so many mixed messages. I believe that it is pretty typical for people to behave the same way in these situations.

[Ditherer]

Yesterday's stuff first...

 

Can I just point out that the affair is over, for anyone who may have missed that! She's doing a No Contact job on me - and let me tell the world how much that sucks from this end! I *think* I know why she's ignoring me, but I find myself wondering why if she's given up on me romantically then why can't she continue things with me as Just Friends - because I'd love to stay in touch (although I suspect that wouldn't do me much good really) - we got on so well it seems such a waste not to be there for each other as friends... maybe it'll happen in future? Am I a complete waste of time to her, with nothing left to offer? That's horrible to contemplate - but if it's true then I'd like to know for sure because it would mean I'm REALLY wasting my time worrying about her. I'd prefer to delude myself that she's keeping clear of me because it hurts her too much.. (LOL!) .. or maybe she knows how hurt *I am* and she thinks it's better for me - I don't know if she'd put my feelings before hers though, to be honest. Most likely I scared her by being so intense too soon, while unavailable, and she's lost respect for me and written me off as a nutter best avoided. Yeah, that's the reason

I genuinely don't know the real reason, or the percentage blend of a mix of reasons - and it seems so unfair. It makes it so much harder to deal with. I think the least someone should do when you've been close to them, is be totally honest about why they're doing No Contact. Don't just do NC without first explaining why. It's mean. Cruel. Gutless.

 

So anyway, it's fizzled out, with NO CHANCE of re-igniting. If I'm still having trouble getting over it, it's because I miss her and miss the feelings I had. But I'll get used to it. I'm already wondering if these infatuations are worth the hassle.. I know some people become 'love addicts' when they get hooked on this stuff but it doesn't last and people get hurt.. maybe I should value a steady boring rut.. but THAT still seems alien to me too. I still want to believe in REAL love.. not some far-fetched giddy blissful thing that doesn't exist.. but just a REALLY good well matched relationship that I'll GLADLY work at if I need to.

 

Do I dither about other stuff? No.. not everyday things where there's a *reasonable* expectation that things will go to plan! I usually just optimistically EXPECT things to work out fine (if there's no good reason why not), and hope for the best. But I do spend money very carefully when it's on luxuries that can't be 100% justified.. buying myself 'toys' as a treat for example.. it can take me ages to decide if it's worth it, whereas I just pay bills and buy things we *need* without batting an eyelid. This marriage issue though, is in another league altogether! It's **SERIOUS** stuff.. the most important decision of my life, with so many repercussions and so much hurt hanging in the balance. Gaaagh!! Or have I built it up to be worse than it really is? Would wife and kids be fine, I'd get no real hassle, we'd all manage perfectly well? How am I to know that in advance? By talking about it and doing the Trial Sep. thing, I guess.. which is where I'm probably heading.

 

In another thread I commented re: Would you marry your partner again? I said that I don't think I'd even DATE mine again, let alone marry! I wouldn't change anything else about my life. If I wasn't at my work I'd be delighted to join the place. I'd befriend all my mates again, no worries. I'd buy my car again. I wouldn't swap my house for one of the same value. I definitely wouldn't change a thing about my kids - unless I could wave a wand and cure a couple of minor ailments the one of them suffers from. But my wife? So much I'd change if I could! There's the shallow stuff that expensive surgery could fix (LOL!) but mainly it's stuff that simply can't be changed - intelligence, humour, companionship. This is why I feel I have to leave, it's stuff I can ignore for now and co-exist with her, but it's going to get more and more miserable as the years go by. It's the future that bugs me most, the present is very 50/50 (which is why I'm so ambivalent)... but that future.. almost *certainly* horrible.. that's what's tipping the scales the most towards me leaving.

 

Yes 'whatafool' - I shall be trying to 'hang and do nothing' for a while, hoping the right answer will come to me I've tried to take a week off from talking about it, but with limited success. One of my mates is going away soon, so that'll take care of that.. and I'm getting very wary of talking about it to my other mates now, because I'm sure they're bored stiff with it all. It's up to me, now. I've got to face it on my own, or I'll have no self-respect and won't be able to count on myself to deal with anything unexpected. It's all very well to have good support from friends during a *crisis* (like when I was dumped) but when it comes to my own personal decision-making it would be absurd to be so weak as to need advisors to tell me what to do. Having said that, I feel like my current dithering is something of blend of the two - both a crisis AND decision-making rolled into one - and I still love to hear what people think.

 

Thanks for those final points (on the first post), I tend to agree. I'll answer the follow-on an hour or two later, ta.

 

And thanks 'Outcast' - yes that makes perfect sense. I'll try to encourage my nads to grow some more. Maybe gentle manipulation will help?

[Ditherer]

Did you mean this, or was it just a bad day, you say that there is no way you could have given her what she's after, ie. marriage, but I thought that was the whole point of all your postings you 'were' trying to work out a way of giving her what she was after, you said yourself you intended to leave your wife and be with her before she backed off

 

Nice to have a chance to go back and mull over the affair yet again all day

She did say "we could end up married one day". This was at the height of our text-messaging addiction when (for both us) more than three hours without hearing from each other was painful! It thrilled/amazed/scared me at the time - I was delighted she believed in me that much but surprised because we had so far to go yet. Things had started off with me deciding to see how far I could get, then I quickly found that she seemed very special. I could have been tempted to have had a full-blown affair (definitely would have been full-on - if she'd been willing!) while staying married, but I was genuinely looking for a good excuse to leave my marriage - I've always yearned for something more. As it went on I got in deeper and deeper, to the point where I felt I'd do ANYTHING for her, whereas she cooled off (for reasons I've given before - starting with guilt). With hindsight I now know that my strong feelings were just infatuation based upon wishful thinking - and that explains her feelings at the start of it too - but we never really got to know each other well enough, and I *SUSPECT* that we'd never have made it to marriage. I don't know if we'd have got along all that well, and she ended up with significant doubts about me too. I think it would have ended before long, with who-knows-which of us dumping the other first! I'm quite glad we never slept together (although a 'small' part of me feels cheated!) because I can imagine how complicated it could have been. It could have gotten really nasty! And I'm glad I didn't leave my wife for her, because I'd have ended up on my own without being fully prepared for it (dithering pays!). That's why I think it was perfect as it was, to teach me some lesson.

 

I don't yet know what I could face, once I get out of my marriage, it seems unlikely that I'll ever want to get into another but you never know! I've been there, done that, paid through the nose for it already, although I can't complain about the kids and the house I've gained from it - and some amount of good times and happy memories. It was also difficult that we are of different religions and she seemed to be dying to have a big lavish white wedding at last (was never married).. and in some ways WHO the groom is would be less important than him just being there! We had a LOT of mileage to cover before we'd get that far.. but even now.. God knows that if it would work out well I'd still be willing (why wouldn't I?).. if He helps me find the strength to make it happen. The weekend when I saw her with another bloke.. I withdrew my willingness to be part of any plan like that.. although she still interests me. I keep my Faith that things will turn out OK in the end. If/when I end up single I'd certainly be up for dating her properly this time to see how it would really be, to see how we've both grown in the meantime. Who knows? It wouldn't bother me unduly that she's trying other blokes in the meantime - I can hardly complain about that while I'm still married can I? She'd have to have found no-one special, and be 100% sure about me.. I really can't see it happening! Maybe if we're both searching fruitlessly for the next 10 years and end up together when we're both ready for it?!! LOL.

For now though, I really hope that if I do end up single, I should be able to find someone just as special, if not more. When I think how lacking the magic is with my wife (and always has been), I think just about anyone could steal my heart if they've got half a spark of intelligence and my sense of humour... if we click and she wants me enough.

 

That babe wants to be settled.. this ditherer wants to be happy. Whether I'm alone forever, serial-dating, or finally finding The One - almost anything's better than a lifetime of soul-destroying mediocrity with The Half. Or maybe I don't know how well off I am already... there's only one way to find out... and it'll be a nasty way to learn a lesson if it all goes wrong!

 

I'm close to tears again tonight after having dropped in on my getting-it-sussed single mate with his own trendy flat and a good blossoming relationship. I see people with *good* relationships and I see what I'm missing. This stuck-with-crap feeling is horrid.. can divorce be all that *much* worse?! At least I'd be getting on with something, trying to positively rebuild my life.

 

Sometimes I think it would be great if a strange light surrounded me in bed one night and a booming voice said "Stay married!".. but I think I'd be disappointed and tell myself it was a weird dream and ignore it Not much point praying for a sign then, is there?! But if the booming voice said "Oh get a divorce you fool" I'd be delighted!

 

A supposedly intelligent man in his late 30s really shouldn't need a sign from above to make his mind up.

 

[Ditherer]

Oh no, I've been thinking again!

 

Why did my affair happen? Because my marriage was unfulfilling and rotten at the core. Many husbands would resist an opportunity to get involved with someone. Regardless of whether they wanted to stray or not, they'd know that if they were found out, the hurt and betrayal suffered by their spouse would be too horrendous to risk. But that didn't stop me. Why?

 

Firstly I was fairly confident that I could keep it all secret and I had no intention of ever mentioning it - I have a long history of keeping things from my wife because of the arguments that would happen if she knew how I really felt about things. I've always justified this to myself that it's her fault for not being able to handle things. In reality I should have been that honest from day one and dealt with the sh** that would have hit the fan. It means we're not compatible and we would have probably split up years ago without all this mess. But I couldn't handle arguing and upsetting her, her reactions were always so extreme - so I feel I just can't win.

 

Secondly, I was so fed up with my marriage relationship that I felt disconnected to it. I finally felt it was over as far as I was concerned. I wouldn't have minded if she HAD found out, I would have welcomed a decent reason to split up - taking all the blame was no problem so long as I had a 'normal' reason for divorce as opposed to some wishy-washy "It just doesn't feel right" that no-one would understand. I had reached the stage where I'd be able to face upsetting my wife to the core with my betrayal. I don't WANT to hurt her, but it's now got to the point where if it has to be done, I'll do it. I just want to be sure it does have to be done, first. When I'm sure I have to go, I'll face it.

 

[Ditherer]

Too much thinking!

 

Today I made a list of all her good points and bad points. A lot of it ended up in a third section called 'irrelevant' - because things that are a matter of shared or different tastes don't really matter specifically.. so long as there are no major clashes (or is having no major clashes an undervalued plus point?). The fact that she loves me is worthless unless it's mutual. A long shared history and common memories don't count for all that much either - no point wallowing in the past when a good or bad future is at stake.. too backwards-looking. A lot of items that started off as her good points are things that would also apply to any other partner once a new relationship was underway and going well. In a similar way many bad points can be discounted because if another woman had those bad qualities we simply wouldn't end up together to start with (so long as I can be emotionally mature enough to not let myself fall for unsuitable partners in future - I worry whether if I can do this).

 

I was left with a list of things that were very positive good features, and a lot of very bad features leaping off the screen at me no matter which section I put them in.. so much so that it made me wonder how I ever married her. The bad seems to outweigh the good. If I managed to start another relationship that seemed promising, the chances are it would be *MUCH* better right from the start. If not, I'd soon find out - I think I can avoid another bad long-termer. So it really is as bad as I thought, proven by how I've felt all these years and my avoidance of her.

 

All the more reason to cut my losses and run.. and try to start again. If only I can face it...

 

[Ditherer]

At last.. breakthrough.. logic I can't argue with!

Too much thinking?! No, it was all worth it...

 

I'm not getting anything worth having out of being here at the moment, apart from seeing the kids each day. If I threw away this relationship at the moment I wouldn't miss how it has been lately. What I thought I might miss, if I went, is what this relationship *could* still be *if* I put some effort into it, perhaps. But I'm not convinced that it could ever be better than the best it ever has been before.. and right now I don't miss THAT. It's what *could be* out there somewhere.. THAT's what I miss. There's my answer!! I've already had the best it's ever been, and I don't miss it. I'm not likely to regret leaving. Sh**.. I'm crying now... I know what I need to do but I don't know if I'm strong enough.