Am I being selfish?

[4fin]

I know you and your husband have sex because you've mentioned it before. It's quite common for couples to have less sex when babies arrive. Sex once a week is the average for married couples.

 

Even though it's not realistic to have sex with your husband every night and give him a BJ every morning, you could certainly try to be a bit more mindful of his sexual needs. Surely there is a middle ground between sex once a week and sex every day? I would deeply resent my husband if he refused to have sex with me just because he didn't "feel like it" especially if he knew that I was very aroused. It's just not a nice way to treat your partner. I mean, I'm sure that your husband does many things for you that he may not feel like doing.

 

You've shared that your husband is a handsome, wealthy, arrogant and charismatic man. Men with those particular characteristics are exactly the types who tend to be unfaithful because they feel entitled to it. I sincerely hope that doesn't happen in your marriage, CR. It could be helpful to be aware of the risks you're taking when you focus on sexual scorekeeping. Sex shouldn't be a line that you draw.

 

 

This is where my wife and I were. 3-4 x's a week to 1-2x's a week after kids. Then my youngest hit 4 or so and didn't need constant monitoring like a baby or toddler and we discussed it. I'm on the everyday end of the spectrum if not more and she'd be fine with once a week as best I can tell. We just decided on a roughly every other day schedule. People seem to think scheduling is not remotely romantic but if you don't schedule and you go back to 1-2x's a week then scheduling it is. I can tell you from a man's perspective who is attracted to their wife rubbing or scratching your wife's back is arousing. I find my wife irresistible. My wife finds me resistible but the fact that she compromised after discussion makes up for me feeling resistible. If you want to have sex once a week and that is what happens you get what you want 7 days a week since you want to not have sex 6 days a week. I did it for years when my kids were young but it was fine because she was/is such a great mom and at certain ages more attention is needed. Once they were old enough though it was time for a change. I don't miss those days. Not yet at least.

[Bastile]

Well sure...

 

And expect him to tell you no when you ask for a back rub.

 

The "you scratch my back, and I scratch yours" method doesn't really work though, does it?

 

No woman wants to feel like they owe sex.

 

Whether that be in the short term with a guy trying to buy her with expensive dates, or long term through doing chores or whatever.

 

You really can't negotiate desire.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Bastile

[Els]

I'm not sure the balance is right if I have to do that. Where does one draw the line? Surely I can ask for a back rub and receive one independent to having to sort out his end on every, single occasion?

 

Of course you can. I wouldn't extrapolate the responses here to be the average or how the normal person conducts their relationships. Most couples I know can enjoy physical affection/contact without it necessarily leading to sex 100.00% of the time.

 

That being said, I wouldn't "expect" a back rub from a partner who didn't feel like it, though (similar as how I wouldn't "expect" sex from a partner who didn't feel like it). If back rubs are requested from you on a regular/daily basis (and again, personally, I wouldn't do that - I'd much rather he give them to me when he feels like it), there should be SOME sort of reciprocation on your side, as well, even if it isn't necessarily immediate sex. Are back rubs a strictly one-sided thing in your R, or do you also give him back rubs/massages/etc without any expectation of immediate reward?

 

How is the sex when you do have it? Do you initiate sometimes and put in effort to make it good for him? Does HE put in effort to make it good for you?

Edited August 7, 2017 by Elswyth

[Chardonnay Renée]

^^^^^

This

 

I know everyone is different but it's hard for me to understand why such a generous and loving gift as that of a backrub wouldn't naturally lead you to want to reciprocate the love shown.

 

I'll reciprocate his giving me a back rub by giving him a back rub? Well, perhaps he wants something other than a back rub? Hmmm...

 

All roads seem to lead to sex. Many times, in fact most times we have sex, it's due to physical affection which has led to sex. This obviously includes back rubs.

 

My issue is that I feel as though my husband believes he's owed sex any time he shows me physical affection. Every time? I'm struggling to adjust to that thought!

[Bastile]

I want a back rub now.

[elaine567]

No woman wants to feel like they owe sex.

 

That is true as it quickly becomes a chore.

A busy mother of 11 month old twins, requesting a back rub was not angling for sex and the fact he turned it into "Well, WTF am I supposed to do with this, then" was a complete turn off and something she is unlikely to forget in a hurry either...

 

Women are actually human beings, not sex toys that need to be available every time a man gets a erection.

Women often also need physical signs of affection that don't immediately turn into full blown sex or a BJ for him.

Any man who ignores that and bulldozes through anyway, demanding she put out for him regardless, as he is "entitled" to it as he is her husband/partner, is skating on thin ice.

 

This is not about women with-holding or playing power games, this is about the simple fact most women love affection, cuddles, hugs and other forms of touch from their SO. Loving touch that does not always involve sex. It is especially necessary if the sex itself does not feel all that intimate to her..

 

It is all about bonding and forming a deep emotional connection.

Women tend not to like being seen as mere sex objects, so any man treating her that way all or most of the time is going to be dismissed by her as her true "lover".

She needs more than that.

 

If in a LTR she will probably keep up the sex for a while but then it may quickly become a real chore and it will eventually be avoided if at all possible.

If she is still dating then she will just say "bye" one day and move on.

 

My AP was a lot more vanilla than my husband. He was mostly interested in making out, foreplay, then missionary position while kissing deeply and holding each other, etc - all of which feels a lot more intimate than some of the more "adventurous" things my husband liked me to do with him. It felt like the AP was interested in making sure I enjoyed myself and that we felt as emotionally connected during sex as possible - which, needless to say, made me enjoy it a lot more than going along with stuff because I wanted to make my H happy.

[Bastile]

That is true as it quickly becomes a chore.

A busy mother of 11 month old twins, requesting a back rub was not angling for sex and the fact he turned it into "Well, WTF am I supposed to do with this, then" was a complete turn off and something she is unlikely to forget in a hurry either...

 

Women are actually human beings, not sex toys that need to be available every time a man gets a erection.

Women often also need physical signs of affection that don't immediately turn into full blown sex or a BJ for him.

Any man who ignores that and bulldozes through anyway, demanding she put out for him regardless, as he is "entitled" to it as he is her husband/partner, is skating on thin ice.

 

This is not about women with-holding or playing power games, this is about the simple fact most women love affection, cuddles, hugs and other forms of touch from their SO. Loving touch that does not always involve sex. It is especially necessary if the sex itself does not feel all that intimate to her..

 

It is all about bonding and forming a deep emotional connection.

Women tend not to like being seen as mere sex objects, so any man treating her that way all or most of the time is going to be dismissed by her as her true "lover".

She needs more than that.

 

If in a LTR she will probably keep up the sex for a while but then it may quickly become a real chore and it will eventually be avoided if at all possible.

If she is still dating then she will just say "bye" one day and move on.

 

Yeah, I've learnt that for myself over the years. Intimacy needs to be an ongoing thing, much like a pulse to keep going. It's not something to pick up and put down for sex.

 

Men can typically go from zero to sex in 60 seconds. Women need escalation.

 

All men really need to do is learn how to express themselves better. Or that's what I needed, anyway. That was good for me, not just for women's benefit.

 

I've also been with women who have a very high sex drive that I struggled to satiate. I even tried stuff like Sedanifil. So, I suppose that I've seen both sides.

 

But I am also giving a male view. And men look for windows of opportunity for sex to happen. If the only intimacy taking place is limited, then he will look to have sex during that limited window - and the woman will think that intimacy will have to result in sex. That can become a vicious cycle.

 

If intimacy is happening all the time as part of the relationship, then there's less pressure on the act. The negotiation part gets nullified. The woman feels generally loved. And the man gets to indulge in mischief.

 

That's how I like it. Like Gomez from the Addam's family

[AriesDude]

"Hey sweety I gave you a backrub so you owe me a session".....

Yeah my mother would drive to my house and beat me if I did that to my wife.

Men are stupid and weird...?

[JHandy]

First, he is turned in by you. That's not a bad thing. A lot of women come here frustrated because their husbands don't get turned on.

 

You got a winning hand.

 

I would tell him what he needs to do to get you in the same mood he's in. It will likely be much more than a back rub.

 

It will do a couple things, he will know the additional investment he must give with his time for you and you will be much further along in being warm to the idea of having sex.

 

Some nights me may not have the energy to put in the extra time.

[elaine567]

...men look for windows of opportunity for sex to happen. If the only intimacy taking place is limited, then he will look to have sex during that limited window - and the woman will think that intimacy will have to result in sex. That can become a vicious cycle.

 

Yes good point.

She was also looking for the limited window where she could feel close and snuggly with her husband and it didn't lead to sex.

Both were thus disappointed by the response of the other.

[knabe]

It's funny how men can easily separate love (feelings) from sex and do taught that fact, but can't seem to separate physical affection from sex. There is such a thing as non-sexual physical affection (touch, kissing, making out) and some of us women love that sort of thing.

 

I feel your pain.

 

Exactly. I know women who love their husbands but are afraid to even hug them because "all touching means sex."

[BettyDraper]

This is where my wife and I were. 3-4 x's a week to 1-2x's a week after kids. Then my youngest hit 4 or so and didn't need constant monitoring like a baby or toddler and we discussed it. I'm on the everyday end of the spectrum if not more and she'd be fine with once a week as best I can tell. We just decided on a roughly every other day schedule. People seem to think scheduling is not remotely romantic but if you don't schedule and you go back to 1-2x's a week then scheduling it is. I can tell you from a man's perspective who is attracted to their wife rubbing or scratching your wife's back is arousing. I find my wife irresistible. My wife finds me resistible but the fact that she compromised after discussion makes up for me feeling resistible. If you want to have sex once a week and that is what happens you get what you want 7 days a week since you want to not have sex 6 days a week. I did it for years when my kids were young but it was fine because she was/is such a great mom and at certain ages more attention is needed. Once they were old enough though it was time for a change. I don't miss those days. Not yet at least.

 

I'm so glad that your wife compromised for you. That's what marriage is all about.

 

One of the reasons my husband and I are childfree is we don't want the strain on our sex life or our romantic relationship.

[Els]

Do you guys (who are telling the OP she should just do it) even ENJOY having sex with someone who isn't turned on at all but just consenting to placate you, though....? I cannot understand that concept at all. And frankly, I don't think I could be with a man who saw nothing wrong with doing that on a regular basis.

 

I really think that a partner insisting that they were owed sex every time they had physical contact would kill their partner's libido in no time. Which is completely counterproductive to their aims, mind you. I desire my SO a lot and initiate about 50% of the time, but my desire for him would drop immensely if he behaved like that.

[LivingWaterPlease]

I'll reciprocate his giving me a back rub by giving him a back rub? Well, perhaps he wants something other than a back rub? Hmmm...

 

All roads seem to lead to sex. Many times, in fact most times we have sex, it's due to physical affection which has led to sex. This obviously includes back rubs.

 

My issue is that I feel as though my husband believes he's owed sex any time he shows me physical affection. Every time? I'm struggling to adjust to that thought!

 

I guess what I was trying to convey is that your need was a back rub and he showed his love by meeting that need. Whether or not you're aroused wasn't really what I was talking about. It was more, reciprocating by showing your love, not through a back rub but through sex.

 

Seems to me one difference in human sexuality and animal sexuality is that humans have the desire and ability to convey depth of the emotional aspect of the relationship through the physical act. The term making love is worded that way for a reason, imho.

 

It's wonderful that you're the woman he's turning to for lovemaking; that his desire for you is so strong. Treasure it because many women, married or single, would love to be in your predicament!

 

In your place, I'd take every opportunity to foster the bond you share with him and count it a blessing. A word to the wise, as they say!

 

No harm in working on your mindset a little. Try to think of intimacy as being gracious to him rather than as him taking from you. He is stunned with your beauty, now stun him with your grace! Make it your goal to let your beauty and love envelop him to where he believes he's the luckiest man alive! Think about what he gives you other than back rubs. Companionship, your children, affluent lifestyle, fidelity, etc. You are basking in the lap of emotional, physical, familial luxury! Enjoy!

[LivingWaterPlease]

Do you guys (who are telling the OP she should just do it) even ENJOY having sex with someone who isn't turned on at all but just consenting to placate you, though....? I cannot understand that concept at all. And frankly, I don't think I could be with a man who saw nothing wrong with doing that on a regular basis.

 

I really think that a partner insisting that they were owed sex every time they had physical contact would kill their partner's libido in no time. Which is completely counterproductive to their aims, mind you. I desire my SO a lot and initiate about 50% of the time, but my desire for him would drop immensely if he behaved like that.

 

Don't believe it should be done to placate. Being loving is a different mindset than placating. I believe if her mindset changes, his very well may, too.

 

Depending on what he wrote, I would tell him the same thing if he were on the forum. Imo, either partner has the ability and privilege to change the dynamic. She's just the one on the thread asking for advice.

[BluesPower]

Without a doubt you were selfish...

 

I know that I will get blasted. But here is the deal. There are men an women on this board and many others the complain about their SO not wanting sex anymore.

 

You know how that started, with stuff like you did. To be very blunt, do you think that you OP have the market cornered on that sweetness? Because you don't?

 

If you want to have a big long talk about how cuddling and affection does not always lead to sex for you, I mean, it is a valid feeling. But it is a long talk and I may, just may lead to less affection in general.

 

In a marriage, some say that the rule should be sex on demand (figuratively) and I am not so sure that is not a good rule.

 

So many woman feel like they have to have their man chase them all the time and it gets boring!!! Further they also feel that they can and should decline whenever they are not completely in the mood. Guess what happens, he stops chasing.

 

I am not trying to be harsh, but on the other hand you may want to be thankful that your husband still finds you attractive and wants to make love to you. I hope you fell the same about him.

 

This seems like a little thing, but if it happens a few times, it can really change the attraction dynamic in a marriage.

 

I am just saying...

[S2B]

This seems like you want power over him.

 

A power struggle will never seem like love.

 

 

I have to ask - if you intend to avoid sex with him - knowing full well that's what he wants - why did you get married?

 

Torturing him isn't nice.

[Chardonnay Renée]

I know you and your husband have sex because you've mentioned it before. It's quite common for couples to have less sex when babies arrive. Sex once a week is the average for married couples.

 

Even though it's not realistic to have sex with your husband every night and give him a BJ every morning, you could certainly try to be a bit more mindful of his sexual needs. Surely there is a middle ground between sex once a week and sex every day? I would deeply resent my husband if he refused to have sex with me just because he didn't "feel like it" especially if he knew that I was very aroused. It's just not a nice way to treat your partner. I mean, I'm sure that your husband does many things for you that he may not feel like doing.

 

You've shared that your husband is a handsome, wealthy, arrogant and charismatic man. Men with those particular characteristics are exactly the types who tend to be unfaithful because they feel entitled to it. I sincerely hope that doesn't happen in your marriage, CR. It could be helpful to be aware of the risks you're taking when you focus on sexual scorekeeping. Sex shouldn't be a line that you draw.

 

My husband is a great guy, but sometimes he can be a real arsehole. Sometimes when he's behaving a certain way, I'm not interested in making love to him. If I'm going to be taken for granted or neglected, I'm not really going to be up for a session of steamy passion, am I?

 

My husband has a very high sex drives. Sometimes mine doesn't match his. Do you suggest that every time he wants it when I don't, I should simply roll over and say "just stick it in"?

 

There are times when I just don't feel like being touched, by anyone! I like my space, I need my space. When I've been with the boys all day, the MIL and no emotional support from my husband, I feel abandoned. It's my issue, too, but I'm trying!

 

I can totally understand why you have cbosen to not have kids. They are a buzz kill, especially the first few years when they demand so much of your time and attention. Please try to understand that having kids hanging off you all day, every day, can have an effect on things.

 

I don't think that "mean" is quite the correct term to use. I'm not being mean - I'm not doing anything deliberately to hurt or neglect my husband. Conversely, being put under pressure, and I'm not referring to times directly after a back rub, to have sex when I'm so not in that headspace, is also mean.

 

You have repeated how I've described my husband. Are you suggesting I be additionally attentive to his sexual needs, above and beyond what normally should be required, just to stave off the threat of infidelity?

 

My husband married me because he loves me! Cheat? Sure... but I'm certain I'd know if he was. I think I'd smell another woman on him. He's smart, but he couldn't keep that going forever. But, he wouldn't. And it's not like we never have sex! Once or twice a week. It's a long way off "never".

[Chardonnay Renée]

This seems like you want power over him.

 

A power struggle will never seem like love.

 

 

I have to ask - if you intend to avoid sex with him - knowing full well that's what he wants - why did you get married?

 

Torturing him isn't nice.

 

This is a bit melodramatic.

 

I don't want power of him. You're implying I'm forsaking my own sexual gratification for power! What part of just wanting physical affection without sex is that hard to grasp? It's got nothing to do with power and everything to do with desire, or lack thereof in this instance.

 

What defines "avoiding sex" to you? Does declining sex once make me a sex avoider, in the same manner that a murderer only needs to kill one person to given such a label?

 

Surely it's okay, then and when, to not be up for some hanky panky, for various reasons? There's a negative connotation around these traps that declining sex once puts you in the same basket as someone who's an habitual sex decliner.

 

I appreciate the feedback in this thread, but at the same time I respectfully disagree with some of the perspectives imparted. This one is no exception.

[BettyDraper]

My husband is a great guy, but sometimes he can be a real arsehole. Sometimes when he's behaving a certain way, I'm not interested in making love to him. If I'm going to be taken for granted or neglected, I'm not really going to be up for a session of steamy passion, am I?

 

My husband has a very high sex drives. Sometimes mine doesn't match his. Do you suggest that every time he wants it when I don't, I should simply roll over and say "just stick it in"?

 

There are times when I just don't feel like being touched, by anyone! I like my space, I need my space. When I've been with the boys all day, the MIL and no emotional support from my husband, I feel abandoned. It's my issue, too, but I'm trying!

 

I can totally understand why you have cbosen to not have kids. They are a buzz kill, especially the first few years when they demand so much of your time and attention. Please try to understand that having kids hanging off you all day, every day, can have an effect on things.

 

I don't think that "mean" is quite the correct term to use. I'm not being mean - I'm not doing anything deliberately to hurt or neglect my husband. Conversely, being put under pressure, and I'm not referring to times directly after a back rub, to have sex when I'm so not in that headspace, is also mean.

 

You have repeated how I've described my husband. Are you suggesting I be additionally attentive to his sexual needs, above and beyond what normally should be required, just to stave off the threat of infidelity?

 

My husband married me because he loves me! Cheat? Sure... but I'm certain I'd know if he was. I think I'd smell another woman on him. He's smart, but he couldn't keep that going forever. But, he wouldn't. And it's not like we never have sex! Once or twice a week. It's a long way off "never".

 

I've seen your other threads about your husband's behavior so I can appreciate how the way he relates to you is a turn off. Why didn't you mention that at the beginning of the thread? I'm sure you would have received more understanding responses if you did.

 

Although I am not a mother, I have heard many new moms complain about feeling "touched out" at the end of a day with their babies. The new moms are physically and mentally exhausted by taking care of infants. When I read your posts, I'm glad that you understand why I don't want children. Repeatedly hearing about how children throw a wrench into a couple's sex life and relationship just confirms that my husband and I have made the best decision for us.

 

Sex should not feel like a requirement. I think your reluctance to have sex is a combination of feeling very hurt by your husband and the overwhelming task of being a new mother to twins. I know you've discussed your husband's dismissive attitude towards your concerns so I'm not sure what would help except marriage counseling.

 

As for infidelity, my point was that a man with your husband's specific characteristics is far more likely to be unfaithful. Being denied sex only adds even more risk.

 

CR, I'm so sorry that you're struggling emotionally in your marriage. People think that affluence and being able to stay home is the key to a happy life but they don't realize that all that glitters isn't gold. *hug*

[MidnightBlue1980]

I used to be like this but then I almost got divorced. If you do not give your husband sex or BJs, they get very unhappy and will treat you poorly. You will complain all the time and not know how simple the answer is. Sex once a day and a BJ once a week. If you just do it, they will treat you like a goddess. It is really all they want, honestly. 10 minutes tops.

 

Like Nike said, Just Do It.

[BettyDraper]

I used to be like this but then I almost got divorced. If you do not give your husband sex or BJs, they get very unhappy and will treat you poorly. You will complain all the time and not know how simple the answer is. Sex once a day and a BJ once a week. If you just do it, they will treat you like a goddess. It is really all they want, honestly. 10 minutes tops.

 

Like Nike said, Just Do It.

 

I don't know if CR's lack of sexual enthusiasm is the reason for her husband treating her poorly. There are some issues in her marriage which have nothing to do with sex.

 

Sex once a day is a lot for most couples....especially couples with small children. I don't think that's realistic. A few times a week could be doable though.

[S2B]

This is a bit melodramatic.

 

I don't want power of him. You're implying I'm forsaking my own sexual gratification for power! What part of just wanting physical affection without sex is that hard to grasp? It's got nothing to do with power and everything to do with desire, or lack thereof in this instance.

 

What defines "avoiding sex" to you? Does declining sex once make me a sex avoider, in the same manner that a murderer only needs to kill one person to given such a label?

 

Surely it's okay, then and when, to not be up for some hanky panky, for various reasons? There's a negative connotation around these traps that declining sex once puts you in the same basket as someone who's an habitual sex decliner.

 

I appreciate the feedback in this thread, but at the same time I respectfully disagree with some of the perspectives imparted. This one is no exception.

 

 

Maybe you have things to earn about men. If you're not in the mood for sex then do not have him give you a back rub. Problem solved.

 

I wasn't melodramatic - but your response sure looks that way.

[Els]

Don't believe it should be done to placate. Being loving is a different mindset than placating. I believe if her mindset changes, his very well may, too.

 

Depending on what he wrote, I would tell him the same thing if he were on the forum. Imo, either partner has the ability and privilege to change the dynamic. She's just the one on the thread asking for advice.

 

Fair point. I agree that it's possible they may be in a downward spiral, where one partner's negative responses and behaviour are feeding into the other's.

 

In the OP's case I don't think this will be easily fixable by her just rolling over and having sex whenever he wants, though. That will just lead him to think that throwing tantrums gets him what he wants. Really, her husband's unattended boner after a backrub is the least of their problems at this stage, given all the other issues.

 

The OP hasn't responded to my suggestions, but in a situation like hers I would recommend the following:

- Relationship/marriage counseling

- Positive communication. Sit down and talk about the problems (both sexual and non-sexual) that each of you is having and how you can work together to fix them

- Have him understand that "sex on demand otherwise tantrum" is not an option, but that if he works on his part of the relationship (making her feel more loved and cared for) then she will work on her part of it (trying to feel desire for sex with him more often than once a week)

- See if there is a way to sort out the MIL issue. If she was cornered into living with an emotionally abusive MIL, in addition to all the other problems in their marriage, it's not really a wonder that she doesn't feel sexy or like having sex

- Experiment with different things to make sex better for her so that she desires it more. It sounds to me like it's mostly about his pleasure - obviously she wouldn't want much of it in that case.

[Chardonnay Renée]

I don't think there's any "right" answer here, it just depends on what a particular couple needs.

 

In our relationship, there is NEVER an expectation that the other party must absolutely partake in sex if they don't feel like it. I don't think either of us could even be aroused if we knew the other party wasn't really feeling turned on at all and just doing it so we don't complain! It's just how we are. Ironically (or not, depending on how you see it), the result of this is that both of us almost never turn the other person down. I think it's about how the individuals involved perceive expectations - in our case sometimes we do it for the other party BECAUSE we know it isn't an expectation, because we know that if we said no they'd respect our feelings without a huffy fit. This instills a feeling of love and desire (as opposed to duty or "sigh I have to do this otherwise he'll be pissed off") and paradoxically leads to very few rejections and some pretty good sex, IMO.

 

That being said, I know couples who both expect that the other person will always "service" them whenever they want it. I personally can't ever wrap my mind around that, but if both people want that and it works for them, who am I to say it's wrong?

 

So I guess my point is that you two probably have to come to a compromise that works for both of you. Perhaps gently let him know that if he gets huffy whenever you aren't in the mood for sex, it makes you desire sex less. And if he listens to you and tries to compromise, you yourself can try and make it good for him by initiating more often, etc?

 

You've raised some good points. There's definitely stuff that both of us need to consider.