When you like what you cant have?

[thefooloftheyear]

That is the reality of life and most people have to accept that they are "average". I see here on LS, many people dissing "averageness" as if it is the bottom of the pile but it is obviously not.

I guess if we were to actually view some of those "10s" and smokin' hot babes that every man on here seems to date, we would be in for a few shocks and I guess we would be underwhelmed.

 

Just like we have to accept that we are not going to hang a real Van Gogh or Picasso in our living room, we have to accept our place in the pecking order of dating.

Discounting all and sundry as they are not "top class" is madness, especially when you know you are far from that "standard" yourself.

It is fine to have a crush on an "unobtainable" woman at 18, but at 33?

 

You are again preventing yourself from finding a mate, by putting an obstacle, in the shape of a "top model", in your own way.

 

This is a good point....

 

If you live long enough, you realize that average(or even conventionally below average) people are usually the happiest and most grounded..They aren't trying to kill themselves trying to maintain themselves to an unhealthy standard of achievements or appearance..

 

TFY

[GoodOnPaper]

Just like we have to accept that we are not going to hang a real Van Gogh or Picasso in our living room, we have to accept our place in the pecking order of dating.

 

This sounds rather uninspiring at best . . . if settling and mediocrity is the best that we can hope for if we're not at the top of the pecking order, is it really worth it? Men are pragmatic enough to know that most of us will not have partners with model-like physical beauty but that doesn't mean that we don't want to feel that same kind of raw, intense, physical attraction and connection that really good looking people do. I have always found that to be far more difficult to find than overall relationship compatibility - I suspect that's true for many struggling guys.

[thefooloftheyear]

This sounds rather uninspiring at best . . . if settling and mediocrity is the best that we can hope for if we're not at the top of the pecking order, is it really worth it? Men are pragmatic enough to know that most of us will not have partners with model-like physical beauty but that doesn't mean that we don't want to feel that same kind of raw, intense, physical attraction and connection that really good looking people do. I have always found that to be far more difficult to find than overall relationship compatibility - I suspect that's true for many struggling guys.

 

 

Yes....but no one fishes for sharks in the kiddie pool....because it makes no sense...

 

I have a friend of mine that's been trying to find a girlfriend for a while...Typical out of shape, 56 year old, middle aged guy, with almost no sex appeal...When I ask him why he hasn't had any luck, he tells me that he refuses to date any woman that weighs over, like 130 lbs...AND she has to have huge tits...Go figure...

 

 

TFY

[normal person]

Men are pragmatic enough to know that most of us will not have partners with model-like physical beauty but that doesn't mean that we don't want to feel that same kind of raw, intense, physical attraction and connection that really good looking people do. I have always found that to be far more difficult to find than overall relationship compatibility - I suspect that's true for many struggling guys.

 

But having the opposite problem can be just as hard. You can have an intense physical chemistry with someone but at the end of the day, you need to be able to be compatible on all the levels that make for a fulfilling relationship. Otherwise it's a pretty hollow experience, especially after your mid 20s. So which itch do you want scratched? Do people want to settle for one, or should they work to scratch both?

 

if settling and mediocrity is the best that we can hope for if we're not at the top of the pecking order, is it really worth it?

 

At the core of this topic and thread, people who feel this way need to ask themselves which they prefer: the current state of dissatisfaction, or a better chance achieved by tirelessly fighting your way out of mediocrity. My assumption is that people will always regret it if they don't at least try to get the most they can out of life, you only live once. But I suppose everyone has different priorities and to each their own.

[ZA Dater]

That is the reality of life and most people have to accept that they are "average". I see here on LS, many people dissing "averageness" as if it is the bottom of the pile but it is obviously not.

I guess if we were to actually view some of those "10s" and smokin' hot babes that every man on here seems to date, we would be in for a few shocks and I guess we would be underwhelmed.

 

Just like we have to accept that we are not going to hang a real Van Gogh or Picasso in our living room, we have to accept our place in the pecking order of dating.

Discounting all and sundry as they are not "top class" is madness, especially when you know you are far from that "standard" yourself.

It is fine to have a crush on an "unobtainable" woman at 18, but at 33?

 

You are again preventing yourself from finding a mate, by putting an obstacle, in the shape of a "top model", in your own way.

 

Well really don't see how aspiring to something I like is putting something in my way so to speak. Just happens she has a great personality which is actually the draw but I can join a line of 100 men, many of which are far more "conventional" than me.

[ZA Dater]

This sounds rather uninspiring at best . . . if settling and mediocrity is the best that we can hope for if we're not at the top of the pecking order, is it really worth it? Men are pragmatic enough to know that most of us will not have partners with model-like physical beauty but that doesn't mean that we don't want to feel that same kind of raw, intense, physical attraction and connection that really good looking people do. I have always found that to be far more difficult to find than overall relationship compatibility - I suspect that's true for many struggling guys.

 

I'll tell you something attaining someone who is stunning isn't that hard IF

1: You have a certain degree of resources

2: You are outgoing and have a great personality.

 

 

I ask myself the bold part often....

 

 

Compatibility is a whole different game, maybe one should ask how compatible one really is. When I ask myself this question the answer is mostly not very because I am too shy.

[ZA Dater]

But having the opposite problem can be just as hard. You can have an intense physical chemistry with someone but at the end of the day, you need to be able to be compatible on all the levels that make for a fulfilling relationship. Otherwise it's a pretty hollow experience, especially after your mid 20s. So which itch do you want scratched? Do people want to settle for one, or should they work to scratch both?

 

 

 

At the core of this topic and thread, people who feel this way need to ask themselves which they prefer: the current state of dissatisfaction, or a better chance achieved by tirelessly fighting your way out of mediocrity. My assumption is that people will always regret it if they don't at least try to get the most they can out of life, you only live once. But I suppose everyone has different priorities and to each their own.

 

I'll agree with most of this as someone who does like to tease the odds at most things BUT you can also only do so much with who you are, life sadly isn't one of those movies where the underdog wins always.

 

 

I'd never say not to that hollow experience you mention if it came knocking at my door.

 

 

How do you define mediocre, materialistically or?

[normal person]

I'll agree with most of this as someone who does like to tease the odds at most things BUT you can also only do so much with who you are, life sadly isn't one of those movies where the underdog wins always.

 

Sadly, no. But there's no regret in doing whatever you can within your control.

 

I'd never say not to that hollow experience you mention if it came knocking at my door.

 

I can understand the desire but it ultimately won't solve your problems and might actually make you feel worse. Also, didn't you bring some woman over to your house and then turn her down? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's incongruous to what you're saying here.

 

How do you define mediocre, materialistically or?

 

Material things likely won't make you happy either. Advancing beyond mediocrity, to me, would be the process of pushing yourself to get whatever you're after. In this instance, with regards to the topic, we're talking about women and relationships. I'll come out and say that I believe in the matching hypothesis, that most people end up dating their equals in terms of socioeconomic status, career, looks, lifestyle, etc. So if you want a partner that's more than mediocre, you can't be mediocre yourself. Of course there are only so many things you can do about this, but if you advance in every category within your control to the best of your ability, you're hopefully not mediocre anymore and boon of the drive, determination, and achievements will probably turn some heads to make up for where you couldn't change in other areas.

 

Control what you can control. Achieve what you can achieve. Don't stress about the rest. If you can really say you've done everything in your control to get the things you want, whatever they are, bravo -- you have my admiration, and I imagine that of many others as well.

[Miss Spider]

Be careful with this approach. Even if you find a woman you like who wants to date you, in the back of your mind you will always be thinking of her as "very average, not physically attractive". Not a particularly healthy mindset with which to start a relationship.

 

Of course, it's probably a common occupational hazard for struggling guys - we're told to take who we can get but then somehow fall head-over-heels for them after we know we've "lowered our standards". My attempt to solve this paradox hasn't been that successful - maybe others have good suggestions.

 

I agree. Sorry if I missed something. Now it's turned to "k, never mind, don't change your personality, change your standards' I preferred the idealism before. Gosh I would never recommend that someone date someone they are not physically attracted to. As for 'average' and '10', people tend to adjust their attraction rather naturally to what they can attain. ZA has had dates with women he likes, so they're not completely out of reach. Something on the date goes amiss, but sometimes it takes a few misses to hit your target. Maybe he can tweak a little bit about himself without compromising his values. It seems messed up to date someone you don't find attractive, even if you get that desperate, but I guess people do get there

 

Jeez, this thread is likd 20 pages long on ZA dating life and have you even been on a date since that random tinder one? Do you have any set up? Get out there, man!

[Mysterio]

I am a 46 Canadian Black male. My last GF was when I was 26. The one before that officially was when I was 19. Every romantic situation I have had since then and currently has been short lived. The reason I broke up with my ex is that she wanted to push having a kid on me soon in the relationship.

 

 

I had meant to say that my last GF was when I was 41.

[ZA Dater]

Sadly, no. But there's no regret in doing whatever you can within your control.

 

 

 

I can understand the desire but it ultimately won't solve your problems and might actually make you feel worse. Also, didn't you bring some woman over to your house and then turn her down? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's incongruous to what you're saying here.

 

 

 

Material things likely won't make you happy either. Advancing beyond mediocrity, to me, would be the process of pushing yourself to get whatever you're after. In this instance, with regards to the topic, we're talking about women and relationships. I'll come out and say that I believe in the matching hypothesis, that most people end up dating their equals in terms of socioeconomic status, career, looks, lifestyle, etc. So if you want a partner that's more than mediocre, you can't be mediocre yourself. Of course there are only so many things you can do about this, but if you advance in every category within your control to the best of your ability, you're hopefully not mediocre anymore and boon of the drive, determination, and achievements will probably turn some heads to make up for where you couldn't change in other areas.

 

Control what you can control. Achieve what you can achieve. Don't stress about the rest. If you can really say you've done everything in your control to get the things you want, whatever they are, bravo -- you have my admiration, and I imagine that of many others as well.

 

Agreed one should do what is in ones control. I didn't turn her down she turned me down but the whole thing wasn't all the great to begin with BUT it was a form of learning I suppose. The insight came from being told what ladies generally like in guys, which in some respects mirrors what has been said here.

 

 

In terms of the bold what happens if those people don't appeal to you? Bearing in mind its possible to change some of those barring looks.

 

 

Agree, it might be hard to believe but I actually buy into that or used to until I realised when I started to try and use those things as selling points they mattered very little.

 

 

Again I need to place some emphasis that perhaps one needs the right audience to begin with, perhaps with the right people those things will matter but sitting across from someone who cant relate to achievements and experiences renders those selling points largely irrelevant.

 

 

Only ONCE have a met someone who actually takes people at face value as opposed to assigning importance to achievements and overly material things. Needless to say we actually got on quite well but I am not her type looks wise so that's that.

[GemmaUK]

 

In terms of the bold what happens if those people don't appeal to you? Bearing in mind its possible to change some of those barring looks.

 

Then you have to just keep looking and hope that someone who is model type looking (as you have said that is the only type of woman who you are attracted to) will be interested in you and your personality.

You just need to remember that you have a limited choice in terms of women you will find attractive, then in terms of women you find attractive finding you equally attractive.

[ZA Dater]

I agree. Sorry if I missed something. Now it's turned to "k, never mind, don't change your personality, change your standards' I preferred the idealism before. Gosh I would never recommend that someone date someone they are not physically attracted to. As for 'average' and '10', people tend to adjust their attraction rather naturally to what they can attain. ZA has had dates with women he likes, so they're not completely out of reach. Something on the date goes amiss, but sometimes it takes a few misses to hit your target. Maybe he can tweak a little bit about himself without compromising his values. It seems messed up to date someone you don't find attractive, even if you get that desperate, but I guess people do get there

 

Jeez, this thread is likd 20 pages long on ZA dating life and have you even been on a date since that random tinder one? Do you have any set up? Get out there, man!

 

If I am honest there were probably four I actually liked enough to want to see again.

 

 

An interesting question would be how many people do date people they aren't attracted to? I'd guess quite a large % do but my whole perception on this is so removed from reality to render this assessment irrelevant.

 

 

The problem I think is when you like what you seemingly cannot attain, then you are smacking your head against a wall. One thing I did learn was when I changed geographical locations on Tinder, Northern Europe and I saw what I could attract there versus here, on a superficial looks basis the results were far superior. Irrelevant I know but interesting nonetheless.

 

 

I don't really know what goes wrong on dates to be honest, its just more of the same really sure the last Tinder date went well and got me to the point of heavy PDA but the follow up date never happened so its hard to look at that as any sort of success, perhaps for the fact intellectually she was more my cup of tea. Part of me suspects the PDA only due to the six glasses of wine she had at dinner.

 

 

Since then, two paid for seeking arrangement dates which were ostensibly a waste of both time and money. There were two other ladies who were keen for the same but I declined.

 

 

Anything on the horizon, nothing really. Its tempting to maybe try again with the last Tinder date but a friend gave me some sage advice "don't go back, she rejected you once which is bad, a second time wont be worse, move on".

 

 

Sure, from time to time, I'll see attractive people in coffee shops and suchlike but almost always there is some guy sitting opposite them and let be honest those that aren't I don't have the confidence or charm to even attempt a random conversation. So the only choices I realistically are on line ones.

[ZA Dater]

Then you have to just keep looking and hope that someone who is model type looking (as you have said that is the only type of woman who you are attracted to) will be interested in you and your personality.

You just need to remember that you have a limited choice in terms of women you will find attractive, then in terms of women you find attractive finding you equally attractive.

 

I actually have a fairly wide range of likes, the model type actually doesn't feature but a pretty face does definitely feature. I'd love the model type but I know that's just not possible, I know enough of them to get a vague idea of which guys appeal to them and I am definitely not it and in a round about way I have been told as much. That's ok, nothing I can really do about that, considering I don't have Normal Person levels of charm!

 

 

Many of the dates I have been on I didn't find the person attractive at all, in some respects I even felt guilty for even going but I wanted to see if their personality was perhaps unique enough to make them attractive. I did try to flirt over a few months with a lady at a car dealer I saw often but that was pointless because turned out she was married but loves the banter I thrown around when I am there. That's the thing I learnt, ladies love attention, it was the same with a co worker, the backwards and forward with her went on for three years. She was never single.

 

 

Maybe in hindsight I'd have been better off learning less about the world around me because I take all that to dates and then get rather irritated by the general apathy I then find. Its so hard to explain this but I'll pass this comment those I seem to meet have no opinions on anything at all, you have no idea how difficult it is to converse with someone like that.

 

 

Went back onto Okcupid last week and most of the people have been there for years, same people.

 

 

In the world I live I guess its preferable to have an impossible ideal than no ideal at all.

[GemmaUK]

Sure, from time to time, I'll see attractive people in coffee shops and suchlike but almost always there is some guy sitting opposite them and let be honest those that aren't I don't have the confidence or charm to even attempt a random conversation. So the only choices I realistically are on line ones.

 

Just a few posts ago you were expanding your social groups - what happened to that?

[GemmaUK]

Maybe in hindsight I'd have been better off learning less about the world around me because I take all that to dates and then get rather irritated by the general apathy I then find. Its so hard to explain this but I'll pass this comment those I seem to meet have no opinions on anything at all, you have no idea how difficult it is to converse with someone like that.

Sounds like what you have done is learn a lot about the world but not the people in it and around you.

A date for me isn't to discuss world affairs, a date Is about learning things about that person.

 

I actually have a fairly wide range of likes, the model type actually doesn't feature but a pretty face does definitely feature. I'd love the model type but I know that's just not possible, I know enough of them to get a vague idea of which guys appeal to them and I am definitely not it and in a round about way I have been told as much. That's ok, nothing I can really do about that, considering I don't have Normal Person levels of charm!

Any woman of any level of attractiveness requires a bit of charm. Not just the most attractive ones.

[ZA Dater]

Just a few posts ago you were expanding your social groups - what happened to that?

 

Guy groups mainly, based on a common interest. I'll give this a try simply to have some people, not for dating. I suspect common interest aside it might be quite hard to fit in but I will give it a try and see.

[ZA Dater]

Sounds like what you have done is learn a lot about the world but not the people in it and around you.

A date for me isn't to discuss world affairs, a date Is about learning things about that person.

 

 

Any woman of any level of attractiveness requires a bit of charm. Not just the most attractive ones.

 

 

I guess I need to find considerably more interesting people then!

 

 

Perhaps this is why he dates with the tourists are better because they actually have something to talk about and why conversationally speaking I get on ok with the models, them having travelled.

 

 

Even well read people are interesting, I think the whole learning thing for me works when I actually find he person interesting to begin with. I DONT seem to have this problem myself because perhaps the only compliment I have got on dates is "you are a very interesting guy".

 

 

Suppose its not all doom and gloom.

[GemmaUK]

I guess I need to find considerably more interesting people then!

 

 

Perhaps this is why he dates with the tourists are better because they actually have something to talk about and why conversationally speaking I get on ok with the models, them having travelled.

 

 

Even well read people are interesting, I think the whole learning thing for me works when I actually find he person interesting to begin with. I DONT seem to have this problem myself because perhaps the only compliment I have got on dates is "you are a very interesting guy".

 

 

Suppose its not all doom and gloom.

 

Life, travels, experiences, personal history, family stuff is all interesting and gives you a gauge as to whether you might be compatible or not.

 

Youi do sound like an interesting guy ZA but you have also said you don't talk much on dates. Be more open (don't brag or bore - it's not attractive) but you can talk about anecdotal stories etc. and you as a person, family stuff.

These are normal date type topics and you opening up will encourage her to do the same.

When we meet someone we want to get to know 'them', not what they are knowledgeable about.

[elaine567]

Just a thought.

One of the other posters on this forum had a date with a guy who unfortunately was a bit nervous on the date and kept rubbing his face and scratching his head.

A nervous reaction probably.

She found it extremely off putting.

 

YOU seem like an interesting chap, so I am surprised no-one wants to go on a second date, so are there any mannerisms you have, or odd movements that you make especially under pressure in a dating situation, that could be putting women off?

[GemmaUK]

Just a thought.

One of the other posters on this forum had a date with a guy who unfortunately was a bit nervous on the date and kept rubbing his face and scratching his head.

A nervous reaction probably.

She found it extremely off putting.

 

YOU seem like an interesting chap, so I am surprised no-one wants to go on a second date, so are there any mannerisms you have, or odd movements that you make especially under pressure in a dating situation, that could be putting women off?

 

I managed to get ZA smiling, this is a start but we've kinda been down this road on numerous occasions. I hope he is still smiling at random folk he sees on the street but I don't know - haven't asked for a while now.

 

I'm with you Elaine but ZA is not terribly willing to try something new as he will try for a bit but reap no reward so that tells him the next person will react the same way.

 

Me, I think he would feel more comfortable with it all if he kept it up 'in general' with anyone but he doesn't feel comfy and past results mean he is unwilling to try.

 

Sorry for talking third person ZA but these are things you have posted in replies before.

[BaileyB]

I guess I need to find considerably more interesting people then!

 

Perhaps this is why he dates with the tourists are better because they actually have something to talk about and why conversationally speaking I get on ok with the models, them having travelled.

 

Even well read people are interesting.

 

Everyone has a story. I would suggest that maybe you don't need to find more interesting people, rather... You may need to learn how to be a better conversationalist and take more of an interest in really getting to know someone.

 

I find it somewhat amusing that you think that models are good "conversationalists." Although I will agree, people who travel are often very interesting people with good stories to tell...

[ZA Dater]

Just a thought.

One of the other posters on this forum had a date with a guy who unfortunately was a bit nervous on the date and kept rubbing his face and scratching his head.

A nervous reaction probably.

She found it extremely off putting.

 

YOU seem like an interesting chap, so I am surprised no-one wants to go on a second date, so are there any mannerisms you have, or odd movements that you make especially under pressure in a dating situation, that could be putting women off?

 

I have become quite conscious of body language and the need to adopt so called "open" body language so I doubt its that, for example one never crosses ones arms because it closes one off apparently.

[ZA Dater]

I managed to get ZA smiling, this is a start but we've kinda been down this road on numerous occasions. I hope he is still smiling at random folk he sees on the street but I don't know - haven't asked for a while now.

 

I'm with you Elaine but ZA is not terribly willing to try something new as he will try for a bit but reap no reward so that tells him the next person will react the same way.

 

Me, I think he would feel more comfortable with it all if he kept it up 'in general' with anyone but he doesn't feel comfy and past results mean he is unwilling to try.

 

Sorry for talking third person ZA but these are things you have posted in replies before.

 

I think interesting can only take one so far, x factor tends to do the rest, when I look at successful dating guys and I look at me that x factor is quite obvious to see, there is some magnetism that I don't seem to exude how much of that is attributed to confidence I don't know but perhaps a lot. Confidence is something I try hard to find really I do but I have never really had it around ladies, even growing up I battled to actually communicate with girls and going to a school which was mostly boys for a few years didn't help much either. Certain people do bring out confidence in me and typically its those who themselves are confident.

 

 

In all honesty I don't think interesting is sexy and those I have asked about it seem to concur, a friend of mine dated a guy who apparently had phenomenal general knowledge but she found it 'irrelevant knowledge". Which I guess maybe it is in the grand scheme of things. I mean lets not kid ourselves a great kisser is probably more desirable than a guy who knows where Palawan is.

 

 

At the end of the day it all boils down to this, we want the best we can but really do wants and what we can get ever really match up? I must be chronically stupid because in my mind its better to have half of something I like than all of something I need to convince myself I like. Here I am not talking about K but in general, I can spend perhaps 15 minutes talking to someone I like and be quite happy with that. I think its how someone catches your imagination, I just need to work out how to catch the imagination of people I like.

 

 

Maybe I just do everything in a too business like way but if someone doesn't wow me I pretty much loose interest which is perhaps why people loose interest in me for the same reason.

[elaine567]

I have become quite conscious of body language and the need to adopt so called "open" body language so I doubt its that, for example one never crosses ones arms because it closes one off apparently.

 

Not always - Interesting article about that