Attitude to former AP?

[JohnAdams]

My wife has never blamed anyone but her for her affair. The first few years, she felt indifferent, really no feelings toward her om. She knew I hated him. She knew I wanted her to hate him. I think she came to a realization of what a slime bag he was/is. In this day and age, to have your teacher hit on you in class would get you fired at the very least. So, we both happily hate him. We do not give him much thought, but when we do, yes hate.

[JohnAdams]

Just to add to my comments, I have read on several threads on LS of WS's who have "fond" feelings for their OM. If I thought my wife had fond thoughts for her OM it would kill me. I think it is very healthy for the WS to realize how the OM contributed to the situation. I think hate for the OM is very healthy for a successful reconciliation.

[Mr. Lucky]

We all have bad memories...some more than others..and we move past them to be the best we can be. I want others to know that healing is possible...but you cannot pretend that it never happened. An affair... a trust broken...remains...however...you can move past it and live a wonderful fulfilling life. You cannot however pretend...it never happened.

 

Well said. And a lack of agreement doesn't indicate any less respect for what you two have accomplished. Hope you have another 30 years of happiness ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Cephalopod]

I wish for you and John to get past carrying this bag of rocks for the rest of your lives.

 

It doesn't work that way.

[mikeylo]

I don't feel I'm his second choice. He ended it with her while we were separated. He chose to risk having no one rather than carry on with her because it was starting to feel awful. Now he's seeking therapy and hoping to convince me to reconcile. He had the opportunity to be with her and didn't take it.

 

I really feel sorry for you. Old patterns die hard and you are in the fog of hoping that your trust in him will win.

 

How can you be 100% sure that he is not in contact with the OW while sitting in another house? All you have is are his words. Hasn't he fed you those while living with you all this time and having an affair ?

 

Who is to say that he isn't cake eating even at this moment?

 

At least you will know you tried but it's going to damage you emotionally a lot than you would actually want to deal with.

[Overtaxed]

Just to add to my comments, I have read on several threads on LS of WS's who have "fond" feelings for their OM. If I thought my wife had fond thoughts for her OM it would kill me. I think it is very healthy for the WS to realize how the OM contributed to the situation. I think hate for the OM is very healthy for a successful reconciliation.

 

I agree. The OM/OW, to use an analogy, is the gun you used to nearly murder your marriage. Blew a hole right through the middle of it, something you love, something you cherish, and something you built together. Then you put it back together, build something, hopefully better than what was before if you R.

 

But the gun? Looking at pictures of the gun and thinking of the "good times" you had? Remembering how that gun was so much fun?

 

Ugh, I'm sorry, but no. May not have even been the AP's fault, you (not you Mr. JA, just any A) might have pursued him. Fact of the matter, that "gun" is what was used to nearly murder something you love. I can't see having anything but hate/disdain or just complete lack of emotion towards someone who helped you do something so awful.

[Just a Guy]

Hi OT, my take on this is that the AP is just a 'Tool'. In other words he/ she is a means to an end. I would think the person using the tool should think why he/ she used that tool to get what they wanted. Perhaps in Mrs. John Adams case her AP was a predator and she was an unwitting victim, in which case I can understand her need to 'Hate' him. However in most other cases the WS willingly seeks out an AP or at least puts himself/herself in a situation where an affair could easily develop and this fact would have been evident to the WS but he/she did nothing to avoid the situation and things just progressed till it all ended in the affair.

 

Of course the basic reasons why the WS had an affair have been discussed thread bare on this forum so there is no need to repeat them here. In such cases hating the AP would probably be an attempt to deflect blame from the WS. Warm wishes.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Just a Guy

[Confused48]

It is easier to hate someone who is not saying they are sorry. Most WS who want to save their relationships are at least expressing regret. So it is easier then, to just hate the gloating, unrepentant and still pursuing, AP. And it is dangerous not to hate that person. I would feel threatened if my WS did not feel anger and hate for the still pursuing AP.

 

That being said, there are benefits to letting go of hate. I don't want to get all spiritual on you here bc I'm not. I aspire to that but have not achieved it. What I did do was practice meditation for years, fruitlessly and seemingly to no benefit.

 

Then one day, a poster here, TaraMaiden, sent me a "Meta" meditation. This was in response to a post of mine about wanting to harm the AP. Meta means, "Loving Kindness." Long story short, I was able to get to a place where I felt loving kindness for my WS and the AP. It was heaven. Total bliss. I've never felt so good in all my life. The release of the hate and the pain and the joy flooding in was indescribable.

 

I was not able to maintain that. I'm back to hating them both but thought this was worth sharing in case it could be of some help to others. Or on the chance that someone could help me go further towards loving kindness for all beings. Including the AP and WS.

[mightycpa]

Mr. Lucky,

 

Nothing to do with blame shifting. What I am saying is that some AP's can catch a WS at a time of weakness and took advanage of it.

In fairness, this right there? It's an excuse. It implies that under normal circumstances, it would not have happened, but when it did, I was weak, therefore, I succumbed.

You seem to imply that a average AP has no morel responsibility for sleeping with a married person.

I think again, not exactly. If the blame starts out at 50/50, but then you say "well, I was weak, so I hate the AP for what he did" the implication is that the stronger party deserves more of the blame, ie, the blame has shifted.

 

At 50/50, if you hate the AP, then how can you not hate yourself? If the BS thinks you should hate the AP, then how can that person not also wish you to hate yourself. And if the BS hates the AP? What's the logical conclusion there, unless the BS has done a little blameshifting too?

 

It's a complicated thing, no doubt, and I guess you can't begrudge a couple for whatever works for them. It's just difficult to understand, maybe even if you've been there. I sure don't understand it, but it's useful to know about all this before it happens.

Edited May 22, 2017 by mightycpa

[Mrs. John Adams]

I am totally and completely responsible for making the choice to cheat. No one forced me to cheat. For a very long time...I did hate meyself for making that choice...and during that time ...I felt indifference toward the OM.

 

As I have come to understand true remorse....I have also learned to forgive myself...that does not mean that i am LESS responsible...it means that I am forgivable. It does not remove what i did...it does not make me less accountable for what i did. I am responsible for the pain i caused my husband. So I no longer hate myself...but i hate what i did.

 

As I have come to understand true remorse...my indifference toward the OM has turned to hate. Had he not pursued me...a married student in his classroom...I would not have cheated. He KNEW I was married. He is also responsible for his actions. He is also responsible for the pain my husband has suffered.

 

He is not MORE responsible than I am...as a matter of fact...I feel I am the one who is the MOST responsible...because I allowed him to help me cheat....and I am the one who vowed to be a loyal wife.

 

I can certainly hate him as a person...and i can certainly hold him accountable for what he did...without removing my own accountability. It is not a matter of being 50% responsible. I am 100% responsible....but I have worked very hard to also be 100% forgivable.

 

I can forgive myself and still be responsible for what i did. I can still hate him and no longer hate myself.

[elaine567]

..hating the AP would probably be an attempt to deflect blame from the WS. .

 

Of course, the reconciling couple are a unit, so directing hate within the walls of the marriage is not considered helpful if the marriage is to survive.

 

Hate could be directed outwith the marriage, friends, family, neighbours, work colleagues, strangers... but that would be grossly unfair, especially when there is someone very close to home it is very possible to hate, someone who "deserves" all the hate, ie the AP.

 

Fighting the common enemy galvanises the marital bond, and it is then possible to move forward as one.

 

Not so sure how it works when the WS isn't actually "hating" the AP though...

[Mrs. John Adams]

Of course, the reconciling couple are a unit, so directing hate within the walls of the marriage is not considered helpful if the marriage is to survive.

 

Hate could be directed outwith the marriage, friends, family, neighbours, work colleagues, strangers... but that would be grossly unfair, especially when there is someone very close to home it is very possible to hate, someone who "deserves" all the hate, ie the AP.

 

Fighting the common enemy galvanises the marital bond, and it is then possible to move forward as one.

 

Not so sure how it works when the WS isn't actually "hating" the AP though...

 

Exactly ..

 

How many threads have we read that the ws still has fond feelings the ap... and many here accept that..

 

I don't see how you can reconcile if your partner loves someone else? I don't see how you as a betrayed could emotionally handle that.

 

My husband was hurt by my indifference toward the om and rightfully so. He wanted me to understand his feelings and his pain. As long as I was indifferent toward the om .. I did not fully understand his pain.

 

I believe in order to achieve true remorse you must feel the pain of what you caused. My husband hated the om.. I needed to feel that.

 

we had to be united in order to reconcile. you cannot reconcile alone.

 

Perfectly said Elaine....

[Mr. Lucky]

Had he not pursued me...a married student in his classroom...I would not have cheated. He KNEW I was married. He is also responsible for his actions. He is also responsible for the pain my husband has suffered.

 

Didn't know your backstory, does indeed sound predatory (and by today's rules, illegal). One challenge in posting here is trying to connect general concepts to unique situations.

 

The more common situation here is that "Jim", feeling unappreciated at home, starts to connect with "Jane" in the next cubicle at work. Yada, yada, yada, the affair happens, Mrs. Jim finds out and DDay occurs. Jim, eager to save his marriage, joins Mrs. Jim in portraying Jane as some evil, seductive succubus whose relentless pursuit eventually wore down Jim's defenses.

 

And how could you not "hate" someone like that, right?

 

An honest reconciliation avoids the temptation to take shortcuts and the easy way out...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mrs. John Adams]

Didn't know your backstory, does indeed sound predatory (and by today's rules, illegal). One challenge in posting here is trying to connect general concepts to unique situations.

 

The more common situation here is that "Jim", feeling unappreciated at home, starts to connect with "Jane" in the next cubicle at work. Yada, yada, yada, the affair happens, Mrs. Jim finds out and DDay occurs. Jim, eager to save his marriage, joins Mrs. Jim in portraying Jane as some evil, seductive succubus whose relentless pursuit eventually wore down Jim's defenses.

 

And how could you not "hate" someone like that, right?

 

An honest reconciliation avoids the temptation to take shortcuts and the easy way out...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I forget that people don't know our whole story...

I never portrayed mr professor as a bad guy... I always took responsibility for what I did. Like I said I neither loved nor hated him.. I simply did not care.

 

He pursued me.. he knew I was married..he used me. I was a conquest... one of many I am sad to say. I am to blame because I allowed it to happen. He certainly did not make me... so I have never "blamed" him in order to make myself appear less guilty.

 

Like I said earlier... I hope some young lady finally had the courage I did not have and turn him in. I hope he lost his job and respect from his peers. I hope he is miserable. I don't know ... because I don't look him up. He is not worth my time or effort.

 

I do hope though someday to read his name in an obituary...cause of death...beaten to death by a betrayed husband. John and I would willingly pay for his defense attorney.

[RecentChange]

I don't hate my old affair partner. I don't have any ill feelings at all twords him.

 

And that is probably a crappy reality for my husband. Who hates him, understandably so.

 

Ours was never one of these sorted love affairs. We never professed any feelings for each other (beyond ego strokes and admirations), there was no future faking, or other dillusions. We both admitted to being selfish, and wrong, but choose to make bad choices any way.

 

After over a year of no contact, we ended up speaking face to face last week.

 

It would have probably been better if I did hate him. I certainly don't love him, but conversely, nor do I hate him. Perhaps I simply never felt strongly about him.

 

But at least I told my husband what I had done (talking to him last week). He still doesn't understand my emotional indifference to him. My lack of hate he was insisting was a sign of having feelings for him.

 

It's hard to admit that I simply liked the way he makes me feel about myself.

[LivingWaterPlease]

I don't hate my old affair partner. I don't have any ill feelings at all twords him.

 

And that is probably a crappy reality for my husband. Who hates him, understandably so.

 

Ours was never one of these sorted love affairs. We never professed any feelings for each other (beyond ego strokes and admirations), there was no future faking, or other dillusions. We both admitted to being selfish, and wrong, but choose to make bad choices any way.

 

After over a year of no contact, we ended up speaking face to face last week.

 

It would have probably been better if I did hate him. I certainly don't love him, but conversely, nor do I hate him. Perhaps I simply never felt strongly about him.

 

But at least I told my husband what I had done (talking to him last week). He still doesn't understand my emotional indifference to him. My lack of hate he was insisting was a sign of having feelings for him.

 

It's hard to admit that I simply liked the way he makes me feel about myself.

 

This resonates with me because I don't hate the AP's of my H and my fiancé. My fiance's ex AP married and divorced him. She's on the fringe of my social circle and I interact with her cordially on a regular basis. My feelings toward her are neutral (she's beautiful and charming, but lies but that's no longer my problem as I'm cautious about getting involved with her on any projects or anything in which I'll have to closely relate with her) as are my feelings toward my exWH's AP.

 

I've had feelings of hate toward people in the past but forgiveness has somehow caused me to be able to move on with neutral feelings for them. However, have never hated the APs of my H and fiance.

 

I've always figured whatever feelings you have for an individual dim throughout the years if you're no longer involved with the person. Sounds as if that's not the case with everyone.

[mightycpa]

I see it as being akin to this:

 

You're young and lack the wisdom of experience. People tell you that you shouldn't buy that sports car, but you do it anyway, you drive wildly, wreck and kill somebody. You've damaged yourself and other people indirectly.

 

Now you're filled with remorse, and as you look backwards, you begin to loathe everything that leads up to the present.... the idea of buying the car, buying it, driving it, and finally, driving it the way you did on that fateful date. You wonder what you were thinking, how could you do that? You hate yourself not only for putting yourself in that situation, but for the way you acted when you found yourself in that situation. You could have slammed on the brakes, you could have swerved away, you could have done so many things you did not do. You even hate the car for its role in the event.

 

Still, there's a facet of this where I think that if you hate the car, then you somehow feel that you are its victim, rather than being a victim of your own driving and poor judgment. As if the car was somehow responsible too.

 

But on the other hand, cars don't beguile. People do, and in this way, a car cannot be your partner in crime like a person can.

 

That said, you were either the last line of defense (100% responsible) or you were in a conspiracy (shared responsibility). Or maybe you can be both, depending on how you look at it. Very complicated stuff. That's probably why it takes a lifetime to sort it out.

[wmacbride]

In fairness, this right there? It's an excuse. It implies that under normal circumstances, it would not have happened, but when it did, I was weak, therefore, I succumbed.I think again, not exactly. If the blame starts out at 50/50, but then you say "well, I was weak, so I hate the AP for what he did" the implication is that the stronger party deserves more of the blame, ie, the blame has shifted.

 

At 50/50, if you hate the AP, then how can you not hate yourself? If the BS thinks you should hate the AP, then how can that person not also wish you to hate yourself. And if the BS hates the AP? What's the logical conclusion there, unless the BS has done a little blameshifting too?

 

It's a complicated thing, no doubt, and I guess you can't begrudge a couple for whatever works for them. It's just difficult to understand, maybe even if you've been there. I sure don't understand it, but it's useful to know about all this before it happens.

 

I don't see it as blame shifting at all.

 

In my situation, I barely knew the ow ( at first) but she knew he was married. There is no way she couldn't have.

 

So this person, who I have never hurt, who barely knew me and whom I had done absolutely nothing to felt that the pain of me an my children was worth her good time.

 

This wasn't an "accident", it didn't "just happen", she went in eyes wide open, and didn't care. she just wanted what she wanted.

 

I'm taking each person's actions on its own here. I compare it to a couple fighting in the park. They are obviously not getting along, and the man invites this other woman to join in hurting his wife. The ow having a bad day and is angry at the world, so she joins in.

 

Nobody forced her,she knew full well what she was doing, and the fact that it made her feel better to join in the abuse and she was invited to do so by the man doesn't negate any of her actions at all.

 

She could have said "no", she could have walked away, but she chose not to, and just like the choice to cheat is on the mm/mw, the choice to get involved with someone who is married is on the ow/om.

 

This is why I can understand the bs being angry at the ow/om, but not so much the ws. Just as the ws didn't force the om/ow to get into the affair, neither were they forced.

 

they can't blame it on anyone else.

[wmacbride]

I see it as being akin to this:

 

You're young and lack the wisdom of experience. People tell you that you shouldn't buy that sports car, but you do it anyway, you drive wildly, wreck and kill somebody. You've damaged yourself and other people indirectly.

 

Now you're filled with remorse, and as you look backwards, you begin to loathe everything that leads up to the present.... the idea of buying the car, buying it, driving it, and finally, driving it the way you did on that fateful date. You wonder what you were thinking, how could you do that? You hate yourself not only for putting yourself in that situation, but for the way you acted when you found yourself in that situation. You could have slammed on the brakes, you could have swerved away, you could have done so many things you did not do. You even hate the car for its role in the event.

 

Still, there's a facet of this where I think that if you hate the car, then you somehow feel that you are its victim, rather than being a victim of your own driving and poor judgment. As if the car was somehow responsible too.

 

But on the other hand, cars don't beguile. People do, and in this way, a car cannot be your partner in crime like a person can.

 

That said, you were either the last line of defense (100% responsible) or you were in a conspiracy (shared responsibility). Or maybe you can be both, depending on how you look at it. Very complicated stuff. That's probably why it takes a lifetime to sort it out.

 

A car is an inatimate object. It moves by the driver's choice.

 

An ow/om is a free agent, just as is the mm/mw.

[aileD]

I think it's ok for a WS to be angry at the AP. As long as they are also angry at themselves.

 

I think it's ok for the BS to be angry at the AP as long as they are also angry at the WS.

 

The fact is no one is innocent on affairs. Except the BS. Both WS and AP both made the choice to violate a marriage. WS violated their marriage and AP violated someone else's marriage which is also not okay.

[Southern Sun]

Poor OP has barely gotten her question answered with the near-threadjack.

 

Mrs.Committed: your husband is trying to be honest with you, and I think that's a very good thing. I would do your best to receive his honesty as calmly as you can, because that's the best way to guarantee you will continue to get it. When people end up in affairs, it's often because they've been people-pleasing or conflict-avoidant and he's been telling you want you want to hear (or NOT telling you) for years already.

 

I would not listen to the poster(s) who are saying you are second choice. It can certainly feel like that after your partner has betrayed you more than once with the same person. But in the throes of lust and infatuation, people can get really wrong-headed and start to value certain aspects of the new relationship more than the value their committed one (it's hard to see how very important their stable relationship is to them when it's been there all along).

 

At 2.5 months out, your H may still be grieving the loss of his AP to an extent. That is certainly uncomfortable for you, but it doesn't mean you can't reconcile. You can choose not to of course, but if you can grasp that it is the natural course of things, for a person who ended a relationship when it was probably still going pretty strong, then it can be done. As long as HE is committed and doing his part.

 

Time and distance (which is a MUST) will give him perspective and he will start to think he had lost his mind a little by having this affair. He will begin to realize what he nearly lost. You will NOT live in the shadow of a "great romance" forever...or for very long. But he must stay away from her completely. His eyes will begin to open.

 

If you see that he is honestly willing to try, and you want to try, there is nothing wrong with trying. You can always make a different decision if something else becomes evident later. But feelings that exist now will inevitably change. I wish you the best.

[Unforseen]

It is very easy to get trapped in a downward spiral of shame as you feel like you were the second choice. It is very difficult to do a reality check with yourself and remember that your H actions were all his and reflect something broken in him, not something wrong with you. Sure there may have been some of those 50/50 marriage issues that will need to be addressed at some point, but they aren't worth spending too much time on until you are more certain you will have a spouse to work with them together on.

 

The multiple d days will make the rebuilding of trust more difficult. No question about it. But if his actions NOW are showing you that there is a possibility to grow that trust again and that he can prove himself to be a safe person to devote your life to again, then you can make the choice to offer him the chance for R (or offer it again if needed).

 

It is a risky thing to do and it does require a leap of faith on your part as you will be opening yourself up to be hurt again. I hope that he will prove himself worth the risk someday. That is heavy lifting that he must first do. What seems to be pushed to the side a little is the heavy lifting you must do. It is not something to take lightly as you must decide if you believe you will be able to forgive him someday.

 

I wish you the best.

[Whoknew30]

Exactly ..

 

How many threads have we read that the ws still has fond feelings the ap... and many here accept that..

 

I don't see how you can reconcile if your partner loves someone else? I don't see how you as a betrayed could emotionally handle that.

 

My husband was hurt by my indifference toward the om and rightfully so. He wanted me to understand his feelings and his pain. As long as I was indifferent toward the om .. I did not fully understand his pain.

 

I believe in order to achieve true remorse you must feel the pain of what you caused. My husband hated the om.. I needed to feel that.

 

we had to be united in order to reconcile. you cannot reconcile alone.

 

Perfectly said Elaine....

 

 

If your OM used you & was a serial cheater with his students, of course you wouldn't understand fond feelings bc you were used from day one. Affair actions may all be the same but it's different when a WS hurts two people in the process...yes OM knew I was married but I made it clear that I wanted out...his consequence was he got hurt, every consequence for each person, in every situation is always different.

 

You saying "hating" the AP means true remorse, as both a WS & BS that doesn't make sense to me. In true forgiveness & remorse, hate shouldn't exist at all. The AP should just become a non factor...hate in a A comes from ego & insecurities, not from remorse or love IMO...aren't you a BS also...do you hate the OW too & does Mr J.A hate her too? Curious.

 

I don't hate my H OW bc I realized she also thought she was gooing to end up with him & got hurt. I feel we both sucked other people into our marriage, chewed & spit them out, which is shame on us...not that the AP's were innocent but had we not brought them into our marriage, they would had never existed in our marriage to begin with...

[Mrs. John Adams]

If your OM used you & was a serial cheater with his students, of course you wouldn't understand fond feelings bc you were used from day one. Affair actions may all be the same but it's different when a WS hurts two people in the process...yes OM knew I was married but I made it clear that I wanted out...his consequence was he got hurt, every consequence for each person, in every situation is always different.

 

You saying "hating" the AP means true remorse, as both a WS & BS that doesn't make sense to me. In true forgiveness & remorse, hate shouldn't exist at all. The AP should just become a non factor...hate in a A comes from ego & insecurities, not from remorse or love IMO...aren't you a BS also...do you hate the OW too & does Mr J.A hate her too? Curious.

 

I don't hate my H OW bc I realized she also thought she was gooing to end up with him & got hurt. I feel we both sucked other people into our marriage, chewed & spit them out, which is shame on us...not that the AP's were innocent but had we not brought them into our marriage, they would had never existed in our marriage to begin with...

 

The OP of this thread asked this question....I'm interested to know how former cheaters feel about their OW/OM after the affair and as the years go by? I simply was answering the op's original question with honesty. I have been challenged about my answer for pages.

 

I am going to try to explain this one more time...and then I am finished with this conversation and hijacking this thread.

 

I hate the AP becasue of the person he is. He is evil....I hate him because he is evil. Hate does not equal blame...my hating him does not mean i place the blame on him...I hate him because he is evil.

 

I do not hate the other woman...because she is not an evil person. I feel nothing toward her.

 

I doesn't have to make sense to you...you dont have to agree. I feel what i feel....right or wrong...it is how i feel. I hate him....period. I am saying that as i have come to understand true remorse...I have also grown from indifference for the AP to hatred. I have not forgiven him...john has not forgiven him..and I doubt we ever will. The only opinions that matter in our reconciliation are mine and John's.

[mightycpa]

The OP of this thread asked this question....I'm interested to know how former cheaters feel about their OW/OM after the affair and as the years go by? I simply was answering the op's original question with honesty.

Excellent point.

I have been challenged about my answer for pages.

I don't know that I've challenged you, but merely tried to understand. I think your answer is that unusual/unexpected, and you've received plenty of feedback about that. Certainly, you're entitled to feel however you feel.

 

To continue in the spirit of giving the thread back to the OP, the answer is: indifferent.