What did you learn from the [affair during/after you reconciled]?

[mercy]

I learned that the most difficult step is to forgive yourself. When all the others have forgave and moved on, the self-hatred remains.

 

I learned that the most difficult step is to forgive yourself. When all the others have forgave and moved on, the self-hatred remains.

 

I told my h to stop holding on to the shame, anger and self hate. It only kept him connected to the wrong he did.

I wanted him to have peace, beyond all understanding.

 

As long as he stayed stuck it that, all of it. Forgiveness could never be felt.

 

Put you and everything you did aside, look at who you really are, at your core, that's forgiven that's all that matters you don't have to feel shame anymore. You are forgiven now, live this truth, all else is a lie.Judgement finger pointing, name calling, none of that pertains to you, look at your life at this moment in time. Who are you, you're a great wife and mother.

 

Release that self hate as easy as slowly breath in release slowly deep breath out... free. Do it as many times as it takes till you believe it. You are worthy. Trust me.

 

love your posts!

 

And a P.S. to Jenkins, why do you go to bed at 7:30? I mean we are just eating dinner and there jenkins is in his jammies ready for bed... just teasing you!

[road]

Do not recovery without getting the full truth.

Thirty years later and the questions you had, you will still

have them and you will still be wanting them answered.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I told my h to stop holding on to the shame, anger and self hate. It only kept him connected to the wrong he did.

I wanted him to have peace, beyond all understanding.

 

As long as he stayed stuck it that, all of it. Forgiveness could never be felt.

 

Put you and everything you did aside, look at who you really are, at your core, that's forgiven that's all that matters you don't have to feel shame anymore. You are forgiven now, live this truth, all else is a lie.Judgement finger pointing, name calling, none of that pertains to you, look at your life at this moment in time. Who are you, you're a great wife and mother.

 

Release that self hate as easy as slowly breath in release slowly deep breath out... free. Do it as many times as it takes till you believe it. You are worthy. Trust me.

 

love your posts!

 

And a P.S. to Jenkins, why do you go to bed at 7:30? I mean we are just eating dinner and there jenkins is in his jammies ready for bed... just teasing you!

 

Thank you so much, I appreciate your kind words.

 

I think Jenkins is in a different time zone. I think he is out west. So he is 2 or 3 hours ahead of the time clock on here.

[wmacbride]

There are some absolute gems on this thread! Great posting guys - keep it up! It kind of warms my heart as I prepare to go to sleep! This thread illustrates the frailties of what it is to be human, how we can make mistakes and be stupid and selfish and blind and hurt the person closest to us......but how, through a very special and profound kind of love, we can be forgiven and, despite our battle scars, we can thrive again..... in our perfectly imperfect little worlds, which deep down are probably very similar to most other people's little worlds - warts and all!

 

I knew I could rely on wmac to start another excellent, thought provoking thread. Thanks for answering my posts wmac, you jogged my memory and I actually remember much of your story including the cr*p you've had to deal with for years from a certain person. I admire you greatly. You are inspiration for reconciling couples because you've been through a lot, but you've given everything, stuck to it and it's paying dividends. I so wish you the peace you deserve.

 

I'm not religious at all, but from what I understand of the christain faith ( and many others) There is a divine being who loves us all and has shown humanity the way to love another. It's not just the "fireworks" ( though song of solomon gets quite racy at times...) it's how you go through the difficult times and most teach a lot about forgiveness of the people you love, how simplicity often brings the greatest joy and also how our time here is limited. There is a new joy to be found each day, often in the simplest things.

For instance, my husband found a huge Polyphemus moth in our yard yesterday, which he carefully corralled into a box and brought it in for me to see as he knows i like moths and butterflies. He had called me earlier to tell me he was done work for the day early ( he's finally retiring after all those years in the army:):)) so I made him an iced coffee, a it was 32 degrees Celsius out and filled the tub with cool water for him.

 

In the evening, we played Settlers of Katahn with our son and younger daughter. we use that as a form of therapy for our son, to help him practice verbalizing. We had a lot of fun, laughed a lot and our son actually spoke a bit with us. Once our kids had gone to bed, we stayed up listening to records and not talking much, just cuddling.

 

These are small things, nothing spectacular, but they make the fabric of the days happy. My goal is to reach a place where those are all that stands out in my mind, and the A is just a distant memory.

[wmacbride]

I learned that the most difficult step is to forgive yourself. When all the others have forgave and moved on, the self-hatred remains.

 

I learned that people can change if they really want to.

 

I learned that neither of you are never the same person after an affair - but maybe that is okay. After all, who you were led to this occurrence.

 

I learned affairs are not a love story. It's not about two people who should have met at a different time or place but the stars did not align. Instead it is a murder, a murder actually of oneself with the others taken out as collateral damage.

 

I learned that when your marriage is weak and your defenses down, wolves will creep in. Therefore it is best to build fortresses to protect yourself - and what is yours - in times of future distress.

 

I learned that if you are not happy, it's no one's fault - and no one's responsibility - but your own.

 

I learned that for a woman, it's all about love. For a man, it's all about sex, especially oral sex. It's a drug to them. Intoxicating.

 

I learned that everyone can lie.

 

I learned that out of the worst of things, can come the best of things.

 

For proof of your last statement, just look int he mirror.

 

It sounds to me like you have done a lot of soul searching and work on yourself. It also sounds like you have faced the parts of yourself that you didn't like and are not afraid to address them.

 

That is incredibly brave of you. I greatly admire the strength of people who can do this. I've never been able to myself.

[jenkins95]

That I was willing compromise more than I thought - to keep the other things I wanted or needed by remaining married.

 

 

Also my wife's remorse and "de-fogging" took a long time to get there - much longer than most.

 

That I understand now (for several reasons) that monogamy in stable long term relationship is a challenge for her.

 

Very good post and excellent YouTube video.

 

Another very cruel aspect of affairs is that the WW often experiences such thrills and highs during the A that it skews their perceptible of what real relationships are like... And should be like. They sometimes convince themselves that they had just "settled" before and that they are have been missing out on this high-octane lifestyle all along, simply because they meet their soul mate at the wrong time.

 

Of course, in cases where the WW leaves for the OM/OW expecting this perpetual ecstasy to last forever...... Disappointment and frustration almost inevitably lies ahead.

 

A dose of reality is what is needed here. Leaving a solid marriage to chase rainbows and unicorns rarely ends well.

 

Knowing that a marriage takes work, often involves compromise and experiences highs and lows - that is a much better expectation to be working to. And through commitment and hard work and respect a higher level of love can be reached than the sex and champagne hormone-fest of an affair. I've been there!

[jenkins95]

When I got married I wanted to duplicate my parents. They always seemed so happy, I mean 50 years, right.

 

After my wife's affair it dawned on me how much of imbalance my parents marriage was through my own marriage. Like my father I worked a ton, always away from the home. Like my mother my wife took care of everything home and family related.

 

I learned just how easy it is to take your partners role for granted, how we so often place higher importance on our own role, how we make assumptions of how they feel.

 

My mother passed away a few summers ago, with all the renewed insight, I sat my father down and asked him if he was happy in the marriage. His response "happy enough to not leave, fulfilled? Not really" 50 years all he has is happy enough? I learned that I want more than happy enough not to leave. I've learned that to be more than happy enough, we can't take the spouse for granted, they don't owe you Thier life, you have to take everyday as an opportunity to have them give it to you....for us, I believe it's the key to being more than happy enough not to leave.

 

Very interesting post DKT3.

 

Just to clarify, are you saying that, in failing to fully appreciate all the tireless hard work your mother was doing "in the background", while he was pursuing his career and to some extent, taking her for granted, that this possibly caused your father to love her and appreciate the marriage less than he would have if he'd fully appreciated hey and not taken everything for granted and that now he'd have a lot more to say than it was simply "good enough"? Also, as their child, did this conversation upset you or make you disappointed with your dad at all?

 

Thanks very much for sharing. This is very personal stuff, but could provide very valuable insight to us all. There's big lessons to be learned here, I am certain

Edited May 20, 2017 by jenkins95

[GoldenR]

I learned I was in false R.

[jenkins95]

I learned affairs are not a love story. It's not about two people who should have met at a different time or place but the stars did not align. Instead it is a murder, a murder actually of oneself with the others taken out as collateral damage.

 

I learned that when your marriage is weak and your defenses down, wolves will creep in. Therefore it is best to build fortresses to protect yourself - and what is yours - in times of future distress.

 

 

The whole post is brilliant. Just picking out a section that really resonates with me - this should be pinned. How can an affair be a love story when it's played out in an isolated secret bubble, enabled by a context of lying and cheating to people that we are supposed to love, protect and be committed to? Murder does indeed fit better - murder of lots of things, murder of love itself.

 

Great to see you making such progress midnight blue and finding such clarity. I agree with wmac that you are very brave woman and I hope you and your H are continuing to make great leaps together..

Edited May 20, 2017 by jenkins95

[jenkins95]

And a P.S. to Jenkins, why do you go to bed at 7:30? I mean we are just eating dinner and there jenkins is in his jammies ready for bed... just teasing you!

 

Ha ha Mercy! I could come up with some suggestions as to why I like to go to bed at 7:30...... but I wouldn't want to make you blush

 

!n fact, I'm actually a night-owl. It was after 1am for me when I posted that, just as it is now! Just a time zone thing I guess. Midnight suggested that I'm from "out west". I love that phrase! What is meant by out West? I'd be interested to know if midnight had guessed right!

 

Love your posts Mercy. I read your paragraphs about intensely communicating and 'talking it to death' many times. You are doing great and this is brilliant stuff. I was feeling a little disconnected from my wife this week (nothing major) and it's clear to me that it's simply due to being so busy with other stuff like work, that we haven't had much chance to actually chat together. We had a sitter today and went out for lunch and shopping together. We talked so much that my jaw aches now........ and that connection is suddenly stronger than ever.

 

So this is another thing in learning in reconciliation...... talk, talk, talk..... Communicate. It doesn't come naturally to me and this has led to problems in my life including the A, but it is a skill to master if reconciliation and marriage in general is going to work. I work hard on it now and am getting there.

Edited May 21, 2017 by jenkins95

[jenkins95]

These are small things, nothing spectacular, but they make the fabric of the days happy. My goal is to reach a place where those are all that stands out in my mind, and the A is just a distant memory.

 

Yes, brilliant..... Small things that collectively build something wonderful. My special needs son had his first few days away from home recently on a residential activity trip with his school. My wife and I were living on the edge of our nerves the whole three days and could barely sleep for worrying about him. He returned a happy boy!!!..... He'd enjoyed it, tried everything and was so pleased to see us again. The whole evening was spent with the entire family hugging and happy.

 

This is a small thing on the grand scale of things, but it was pure, pure magic to my little family unit. It also struck me how different the whole experience would have been if my wife and I hadn't been together​ any more to share in such a special memory together. It makes me sad, shocked and angry at myself for what I risked in having an affair.

 

Since his lovely trip, my son has also joined a youth club which gives him more opportunities to taste a little independence a few hours a week and which he has thrown himself into, is enjoying immensely and has made us very proud.

 

Small steps indeed....... But priceless ones....... All the more so because we are all in it together.

Edited May 21, 2017 by jenkins95

[LargoLagg]

I learned that if you really care for your AP, you'd never ask them to do what you're asking them to do.

 

Compromise their ethics/morals

Sleep alone wondering if you're having sex with the spouse

Giving them seconds or thirds of your time

Put their reputation at risk

Stringing them along until they ask something of you that you won't do

 

and I learned that being "in love" can convince you to act in ways that you could never otherwise imagine yourself doing. It makes you the best of excuse makers, and will expose every weakness that you have.

 

You know that your spouse doesn't deserve what you're doing, but you do it anyway.

[mercy]

I learned I needed to stay away from bitter people.

 

I was determined to not be resentful or bitter. That was my prayer. I wanted forgiveness and freedom.

 

Once that seed of 'want to' is in you, it begins to grow.

 

All it takes is the want to and then the desire grows. And oh how wonderful it can grow.

 

Really all it takes is a person saying that they want to. It's that simple.

 

Reconciliation begins.

 

Want to is such small words but the joy that follows is ten fold.

You want the best life the most joy-est life, choose to reconcile with a deserving partner and the blessing come slowly, daily until your life is filled.

[mercy]

Compromise their ethics/morals

 

To be that powerful to do something so degrading

 

for a women to give up all she believes in to her core,

 

well that's evil.

 

I don't know who you would reconcile that with her or your wife.

 

So who are you in reconciliation with?

[mightycpa]

 

Believeing you would never be capable of going tis to

Compromise their ethics/morals

To be that powerful to do something so degrading

 

for a women to give up all she believes in to her core,

 

well that's evil.

 

I don't know who you would reconcile that with her or your wife.

 

So who are you in reconciliation with?

This would presume that the OW (or OM in your case) had some scruples about seeing a married person. What it seems to mean is that you're asking/encouraging someone to ignore their own sense of right and wrong, because you claim to "love" that person.

 

Yeah, right. I guess if you think about it, they're doing the same thing to you too.

 

Clearly, you're compromising your own ethics/morals at the same time too, so when you boil it all down to what it really is, that's just being selfish.

 

In that story, he's Adam, she's Eve and both of them are the snake too.

Edited May 21, 2017 by mightycpa

[understand50]

What did I learn?

 

That while I have forgiven her, I cannot ever forget what she did.

 

That other crises in the marriage will bring back the feeling and memories that will need to be address again. Infidelity, will always remain a resentment, and can add to others and build unless you recognize this.

 

Truth, all the details, is best done at the beginning. Both must be totally truthful on what happened and why. If as time goes on, and one or other realizes more, it needs to be shared. What can kill a marriage, or place it under great stress, is mystery, and keeping the other in the dark. Everything comes out in the end.

 

My two cents.

[mercy]

This would presume that the OW (or OM in your case) had some scruples about seeing a married person. What it seems to mean is that you're asking/encouraging someone to ignore their own sense of right and wrong, because you claim to "love" that person.

 

Yeah, right. I guess if you think about it, they're doing the same thing to you too.

 

Clearly, you're compromising your own ethics/morals at the same time too, so when you boil it all down to what it really is, that's just being selfish.

 

In that story, he's Adam, she's Eve and both of them are the snake too.

 

I don't know what you mean. Seriously.

 

I do know that after vodka shots with friends last night that I shouldn't post here.

[wmacbride]

Yes, brilliant..... Small things that collectively build something wonderful. My special needs son had his first few days away from home recently on a residential activity trip with his school. My wife and I were living on the edge of our nerves the whole three days and could barely sleep for worrying about him. He returned a happy boy!!!..... He'd enjoyed it, tried everything and was so pleased to see us again. The whole evening was spent with the entire family hugging and happy.

 

This is a small thing on the grand scale of things, but it was pure, pure magic to my little family unit. It also struck me how different the whole experience would have been if my wife and I hadn't been together​ any more to share in such a special memory together. It makes me sad, shocked and angry at myself for what I risked in having an affair.

 

Since his lovely trip, my son has also joined a youth club which gives him more opportunities to taste a little independence a few hours a week and which he has thrown himself into, is enjoying immensely and has made us very proud.

 

Small steps indeed....... But priceless ones....... All the more so because we are all in it together.

 

Wait until the day you get to see him walk across the stage when he graduates high school. You and your wife will likely have tears in your eyes and you'll know you both made the right choice for your family.

[wmacbride]

I learned that if you really care for your AP, you'd never ask them to do what you're asking them to do.

 

Compromise their ethics/morals

Sleep alone wondering if you're having sex with the spouse

Giving them seconds or thirds of your time

Put their reputation at risk

Stringing them along until they ask something of you that you won't do

 

and I learned that being "in love" can convince you to act in ways that you could never otherwise imagine yourself doing. It makes you the best of excuse makers, and will expose every weakness that you have.

 

You know that your spouse doesn't deserve what you're doing, but you do it anyway.

 

Then I guess your ow didn't care that much about you, as she asked you to do all of this. Mind you, you listened.

[LargoLagg]

Compromise their ethics/morals

 

To be that powerful to do something so degrading

 

for a women to give up all she believes in to her core,

 

well that's evil.

 

I don't know who you would reconcile that with her or your wife.

 

So who are you in reconciliation with?

To paraphrase what you said a couple posts up, I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

As to the evil part, I'll take that up with wmacbride.

[LargoLagg]

Then I guess your ow didn't care that much about you, as she asked you to do all of this. Mind you, you listened.

I don't know if it is really that simple. Sometimes, life puts you in situations where you don't do your best. Maybe you learn from them, maybe you don't. If you act according to your heart, but it is wrong at the core, does that mean you don't care much for the other? I don't think I can follow you there.

 

I'd say it's more like a) you don't wrestle with these questions immediately. It takes some time for you to figure out who you are, and what your real values are when put to the test. Also, it's more like b) you can't resist, even though you know you should. You weigh 400 pounds, but you've got to have one more piece of chocolate. You have cancer, but you can't quite give up that next cigarette. You have debt, but you need that fancy new pair of shoes. You want to be honest, but you put your thumb on the scale, or you lie. Everybody does it. It's really just a matter of degree.

 

I think people are just weak, and infatuation or love weakens them further, and it all goes along swimmingly until something goes wrong. This is the point where the questions get asked, not when they really should be.

[wmacbride]

I don't know if it is really that simple. Sometimes, life puts you in situations where you don't do your best. Maybe you learn from them, maybe you don't. If you act according to your heart, but it is wrong at the core, does that mean you don't care much for the other? I don't think I can follow you there.

 

I'd say it's more like a) you don't wrestle with these questions immediately. It takes some time for you to figure out who you are, and what your real values are when put to the test. Also, it's more like b) you can't resist, even though you know you should. You weigh 400 pounds, but you've got to have one more piece of chocolate. You have cancer, but you can't quite give up that next cigarette. You have debt, but you need that fancy new pair of shoes. You want to be honest, but you put your thumb on the scale, or you lie. Everybody does it. It's really just a matter of degree.

 

I think people are just weak, and infatuation or love weakens them further, and it all goes along swimmingly until something goes wrong. This is the point where the questions get asked, not when they really should be.

 

 

No, we don;t "all do it". This is part of the porblem, this "grey thinking".

 

No, I don;t put my thumb on the scale, if I'm in debt I don;t buy a fancy new pair of shoes, and if I had cancer I wouldn't be smoking ( my mom died from lung cancer, and she was able to stop).

 

This being said, I'm human,and like all humans, I make mistakes. Eating that one piece of chocolate, smoking cigarette or buying a pair of shoes is a one time slip up, a mistake.

 

An affair is NOT a one time mistake ( unless it is a one night stand). It's a conscious series of decisions made and a conscious effort to lie. The only analogy you gave hat was anywhere similar is the scale. Not an accident, but outright and intentional dishonesty and stealing.

 

You may be willing to excuse crappy behavior by saying "we all do it", but some of us don't, and that's not because we haven't had the opportunity. I get that it makes some people feel better about their choices to say " everyone else does it", but the truth is, no we don't.

[QuietDan]

I don't know what you mean. Seriously.

 

I do know that after vodka shots with friends last night that I shouldn't post here.

 

LOL, I more than understand and appreciate the danger involved with typing while intoxicated.

Friends don't let friends drink and type.

If you see your friend is intoxicated, take their keyboard or smart phone away from them.

 

There are at least one or two posts or threads that .... where post while under the influence... One thing to add to the list of things I regret.

 

This is a great thread.

A lot of great things learned the hard way.

So much I agree with....

There was a cartoon movie on the TV last night that my wife and I were halfway watching. A number of somewhat awkward and uncomfortable scenes in that movie if you are a wayward/former wayward. I think name of the movie was "The Incredibles".

After, one particular scene, my wife gave me a certain "Look"... There are times ... reminders... The guilt, shame, pain, regret, remorse, brokeness, failure as a person with moral character, sinfulness.

Not everything gets worked through or dealt with in the first 2 to 5 years of reconciliation. Somethings do get swept under the rug. Things swept under the rug have a tendency to keep finding a way to creep back out and cause problems over and over again.

Edited May 22, 2017 by QuietDan
Added a missing somewhat relavent detail

[QuietDan]

I don't know what you mean. Seriously.

 

I do know that after vodka shots with friends last night that I shouldn't post here.

 

LOL, I more than understand and appreciate the danger involved with typing while intoxicated.

Friends don't let friends drink and type.

If you see your friend is intoxicated, take their keyboard or smart phone away from them.

 

There are at least one or two posts or threads that .... where post while under the influence... One thing to add to the list of things I regret.

 

This is a great thread.

A lot of great things learned the hard way.

So much I agree with....

There was a cartoon movie on the TV last night that my wife and I were halfway watching. A number of somewhat awkward and uncomfortable scenes in that movie if you are a wayward/former wayward.

After, one particular scene, my wife gave me a certain "Look"... There are times ... reminders... The guilt, shame, pain, regret, remorse, brokeness, failure as a person with moral character, sinfulness.

Not everything gets worked through or dealt with in the first 2 to 5 years of reconciliation. Somethings do get swept under the rug. Things swept under the rug have a tendency to keep finding a way to creep back out and cause problems over and over again.

[DKT3]

Very interesting post DKT3.

 

Just to clarify, are you saying that, in failing to fully appreciate all the tireless hard work your mother was doing "in the background", while he was pursuing his career and to some extent, taking her for granted, that this possibly caused your father to love her and appreciate the marriage less than he would have if he'd fully appreciated hey and not taken everything for granted and that now he'd have a lot more to say than it was simply "good enough"? Also, as their child, did this conversation upset you or make you disappointed with your dad at all?

 

Thanks very much for sharing. This is very personal stuff, but could provide very valuable insight to us all. There's big lessons to be learned here, I am certain

 

Sorry for the late reply.

 

My father is who he is, very stoic, level headed emotion eater. I think his comments of good enough is a reflection duty vs happy. My mom was very controlling and domineering, very powerful personality, which often overwhelmed him. I saw them as happy because like me my dad needs physical touch so he always had his hands all over her. Lots of hugs and kisses. But it hide the fact he was somewhat beat down. Along with his career as a homicide detective in Los Angeles he hide emotions well.

 

My point is from my view it was amazing, and I wanted to duplicate it in my marriage. The difference is, my mother loved living for me and my two siblings, she excluded my father from alot growing up. So I took that same role, my wife on the other hand, had a father who showered her and her sister with attention.....so you can all see the conflict on the horizon.

 

It was her affair that showed me our marriage had to be our marriage and not some hybrid of our parents​. We have found our sweet spot.