Moving 'heaven and earth' to be with you

[minimariah]

...and I have some evidence to back mine up.

 

*EMPIRICAL evidence. important.

 

I made sure he thought through the consequences before he raised it with his kids.

 

why did YOU have to make sure he thought through the consequences...? shouldn't he - a GROWN MAN - be able to think it through ON HIS OWN?

 

Nor did he need years to think about the consequences of an A - that was a matter of weeks.

 

why did he need ANY time at all...? a grown man should know what the A IS & what are the possible consequences, without having to think about it for 10 minutes... let alone WEEKS.

 

I don't walk around convincing my friends to have As or to get D.

 

who mentioned CONVINCING...? you do TALK to your friends and give them advice you think is appropriate - no?

[Joie]

A person doesn't need to move heaven and earth but let's not kid ourselves. He doesn't need time to leave. It takes five seconds. "I found someone else. I am sorry." Bam, DONE.

 

What happens after that may take time because you need to make arrangements for custody, divided your stuff financially etc. but letting the BS know the marriage is over takes no time and anything else is just a cheap cop out.

 

He isn't staying for the kids. Because if he was really a great dad and didn't want to miss seeing his kids. He would be with them instead of sneaking around on their mother.

 

He isn't staying for money. Because saying he needs to be a better place financially is the same as saying I need more time to screw over my wife because I don't want to have to give her any money.

 

And neither the WS nor the AP are trying to keep it a quiet because they don't want to hurt the BS. The WS is hurting her either way. Delaying it doesn't make it hurt less it makes it hurt more.

 

But it all boils down to the same thing. You don't need to move heaven and earth. You need to have one conversation. Anything else is just an excuse.

[Chilli]

Or as l've found out in the last 18mths , it just isn't as simple as that.

What if it a LDR, where your in love and you've had real life together but someone has to move to another country.

What if ?

Heaven and earth, yeah to right, you'll have to move it alright and own a bank to finance it and get through visas and residencies and one has to walk away from their life , throwing their finances, their work, their home and everything they've built, out the window to start again in another country from scratch.

 

That saying is like most things internet, la la land.

But sadly the majority seem to fall for it all and think it's real, but it isn't by a long shot.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Chilli

[cocorico]

*EMPIRICAL evidence. important.

 

I don't know of any other kind.

 

why did YOU have to make sure he thought through the consequences...?

 

So that I was satisfied - I am not willing to enter into anything I have not considered the risks carefully first. I like to make informed choices. I needed to know he had considered consequences fully. Same way I don't trust someone telling me their HIV status if I'm going to have sex with them - I need to see testing. Perhaps others are more trusting, but I'm not.

 

 

why did he need ANY time at all...? a grown man should know what the A IS & what are the possible consequences, without having to think about it for 10 minutes... let alone WEEKS.

 

Not all situations are the same. This was

A) a marriage that had only taken place for tax reasons.

B) a situation in which the W had stated upfront that she considered monogamy oppressive, and consider getting M as anything that would change her mind on that.

C) a R that had arisen out of the W's own prior infidelity.

D) a R characterised by the W changing her mind, not communicating the change,and expecting the H to be on board with her uncomminicated changed mind - irrespective of overt agreements - as in the kids / no kids issue.

E) a M characterised by entirely separate lives, especially since taking back the W after a prior separation (occasioned by her leaving to be with her OP after launching physical attack on the H in front of the kids) where he had only agreed to return (contingent on agreements she made, then broke) because of how badly traumatised the kids were during the split... etc.

 

It was complex. Life often is. He would happily have dumped her in a heartbeat but was worried about the kids.

 

 

who mentioned CONVINCING...? you do TALK to your friends and give them advice you think is appropriate - no?

 

Usually not - usually I encourage them to find their own solutions that work for them. I recognise that not everyone shares values or goals, and that what I think is best isn't the same for everyone. I'm happy to support my friends even when they make choices different to those I would make.

[cocorico]

I guess I don't understand the perspective that this is all a binary issue. Even if someone is in an affair, isn't it better to leave the marriage in a way that does as little damage to the spouse and family as possible? Obviously it will be terrible no matter what. But there are degrees of terribleness.

 

And if someone being a cheater makes them devoid of good character, how does that align with all of the spouses who reconcile with their cheating spouses? If it's automatically foolish to enter a real relationship with your affair partner because obviously they're a bad person and your relationship is based on lies, it seems equally foolish to reconcile with your cheating spouse. I just don't think these things are black and white.

 

This I agree with completely.

 

I absolutely do agree with you though that affairs are fantasy relationships. Some much more so than others, but there is a degree of fantasy that is inherent.

 

This I don't. I struggle to recall any degree of fantasy in our R during the A phase. Hard, gritty realism was our norm.

[cocorico]

Agree.

 

Relationships beyond marital/romantic are complicated. It's highly unusual that one ends cleanly, with zero angst....including working, neighborly, friendship and such.

 

Yet if two people are engaged in building a life together while one or both are actively involved with someone else who believes they have an invested future planned...

 

This is a relationship based in deceit. It is. If it isn't then it isn't an affair. It's an open, honest, run of the mill, hello meet the kids and family relationship.

 

Said relationship may not be doomed to failure but unless the two lovers become immediately candid, it most certainly is deception.

 

Sometimes it is "open, honest, hello meet the family" and the only party who doesn't know is the BS. There are several such instances on these boards - which often leave the AP feeling really confused if the MP doesn't then leave their BS, since they've been integrated into the MP's life openly.

[somanymistakes]

A person doesn't need to move heaven and earth but let's not kid ourselves. He doesn't need time to leave. It takes five seconds. "I found someone else. I am sorry." Bam, DONE.

 

Only after you've actually made the decision, though.

 

And what sort of person sees a woman walking down the street and instantly decides "yep, that's it, I'm leaving my wife today so that I might someday have a chance to get with that hottie" ?

 

The messiest bit is that it's unfair to the BS to sit around in limbo pondering whether you want to leave or not if the BS has no idea this thought process is even taking place.

 

He isn't staying for the kids. Because if he was really a great dad and didn't want to miss seeing his kids. He would be with them instead of sneaking around on their mother.

 

Not true though, these are two separate things. You can be a dad who wants to see your kids and still want more sex or whatever. Screwing around may mean you're not a GREAT dad, but it doesn't mean you want to give up your kids. (A lot of people want all the cake.)

 

If you hang out in divorce forums a lot of people who have already agreed the marriage is over do consider staying together for the kids and splitting up as soon as they go off to school.

[Timshel]

Sometimes it is "open, honest, hello meet the family" and the only party who doesn't know is the BS. There are several such instances on these boards - which often leave the AP feeling really confused if the MP doesn't then leave their BS, since they've been integrated into the MP's life openly.

 

I suppose bolded is possible. More often, looking the other way and denial is at work.

 

If we look at an affair relationship as any other romantic relationship (for a moment) why would an affair partner accept being introduced to family and friends, treated as a person with whom their lover anticipates a future....then the married person does not make an effort to achieve this by actually coming clean to their spouse and getting a divorce? Sorry, run on.

 

I can't imagine being in love and feeling genuinely/sincerely loved in return if the person I am with is actively deceiving the person they are, at the very least, legally obliged.