Was it my doing (neediness) or his (unavailability)?

[ExpatInItaly]

I don't think you know enough about him to classify him as Avoidant, so I would hesitate to speculate on that. You two simple have too little history together to determine if there is a pattern, or whether he's just rebounding.

 

I would instead take this as a lesson that when you hear your gut telling you something is wrong, you need to listen.

[divegrl]

Thank you! How are you doing with your situation?

 

I'll PM you!

[laelithia]

I don't think you know enough about him to classify him as Avoidant, so I would hesitate to speculate on that. You two simple have too little history together to determine if there is a pattern, or whether he's just rebounding.

 

I would instead take this as a lesson that when you hear your gut telling you something is wrong, you need to listen.

 

I agree. Do you think in this scenario my gut should have led me to end things completely or just take it slower?

[ExpatInItaly]

I agree. Do you think in this scenario my gut should have led me to end things completely or just take it slower?

 

End it completely.

 

It's not normal for a guy to start planning your future before you've even met.

[laelithia]

End it completely.

 

It's not normal for a guy to start planning your future before you've even met.

 

Several times we both would ask "are we crazy?!" for indulging in these 'fantasies', and I suppose we both knew it was too much. I think I also got carried away/smitten with someone I hardly knew.

 

It really seemed at the time not as big of a deal since our frequency of contact had been so high, but I agree that it takes a long time to truly get to know someone and it wasn't right that either of us felt like it was a possibility to jump into something so serious so fast. I think if I'm truly honest, I think we were both rebounding/looking for a distraction.

 

I guess what I'm wondering, is that if that were the case, does that essentially mean that there was incompatibility? When we talked more about it, he said he believed it was just a case of bad timing, and that he did feel like he likes me, but that he wasn't ready to jump into things as much as he thought.

[preraph]

I think I knew this... but I actually got carried away too. Now I'm wondering if this illustrates my own emotional unavailability to get involved with a situation like this. It just felt so nice while it lasted. I loved the idea of someone thinking about me all the time and showering me in attention. I knew it should take time, but I naively thought maybe this was really it, that it was moving fast because it was "meant to be".

 

Nothing is meant to be. Every person you meet, you will have a different type connection with. Sometimes you may like enough instantaneously to get carried away. I know I have. But it takes a long time to get to know someone. For every person who says it was love at first sight and we're still married 20 years later, there are a thousand who will say it was love at first sight but didn't last once they got to know each other better, which people usually verbalize as "but he/she changed." Truth was they were projecting onto them the ideal person they hoped they'd be and were then disappointed or shocked when they find out they're not who they'd imagined them to be. That ideal person in your head doesn't exist. But keep your mind and heart open and you may find someone unexpected who isn't who you dreamed of but turns out to be a great match for you. Good luck.

[SpecialJ]

Two things to consider. 1: he was rebounding and looking for an instant replacement serious gf to fill the hole left by his last relationship. 2 (and what I think is more likely): he shows highly narcissistic traits and you went right through a normal cycle (love bomb, devalue, discard). It's very easy for those types to get caught up in a fantasy because they are empty, then bail when the fantasy is not reality and things aren't perfectly the way they want them. If you really are trying to work through why you attract and are attracted to guys like this, look up NPD and look up dating a narcissist and see if any of it rings true about guys you've dated in the past and how you felt right after those relationships ended.

[laelithia]

Two things to consider. 1: he was rebounding and looking for an instant replacement serious gf to fill the hole left by his last relationship. 2 (and what I think is more likely): he shows highly narcissistic traits and you went right through a normal cycle (love bomb, devalue, discard). It's very easy for those types to get caught up in a fantasy because they are empty, then bail when the fantasy is not reality and things aren't perfectly the way they want them. If you really are trying to work through why you attract and are attracted to guys like this, look up NPD and look up dating a narcissist and see if any of it rings true about guys you've dated in the past and how you felt right after those relationships ended.

 

Thank you for your feedback. I have looked into this before, and I would say that some of the men I have dated in the past definitely seemed to have NPD qualities, and I do seem to be attracted to these sorts of men. I'm not sure to be honest with the most recent one if he did or not, I didn't even feel I was able to get to know him on that deep of a level. I did feel we had a lot of things in common (both avid readers, family oriented, physically active, etc.) and wanted to explore that more. I think also I really miss the "connection" we had, but now I'm wondering if any of that was even there in actuality.

[SpecialJ]

The points in your story I picked up on to bring up NPD:

 

Flattery and love bombing to an incredible extent right off the bat

Trying to convince you you're perfect for each other, telling you what you wanted to hear, and fast forwarding the relationship

Pushing your boundaries with the drug situation and even getting you to give in

Not considering your needs (introducing you to the dealer)

Searching for new women before even telling you it was over

Wanting this all to be on his terms

 

If you think he could have narcissistic qualities, then he did you a favor and cutting him off, as difficult as it is, would be prudent instead of allowing him to hover around and get your attention when he wants it.

[laelithia]

The points in your story I picked up on to bring up NPD:

 

Flattery and love bombing to an incredible extent right off the bat

Trying to convince you you're perfect for each other, telling you what you wanted to hear, and fast forwarding the relationship

Pushing your boundaries with the drug situation and even getting you to give in

Not considering your needs (introducing you to the dealer)

Searching for new women before even telling you it was over

Wanting this all to be on his terms

 

If you think he could have narcissistic qualities, then he did you a favor and cutting him off, as difficult as it is, would be prudent instead of allowing him to hover around and get your attention when he wants it.

 

Thank you for your feedback. I do believe he embodied several traits of NPD (those that you mentioned), but I guess what struck me is that he seemed to also have a lot of empathy for me from what had happened in my past relationships, as well as for his exes and what maybe he had put them through in the past. I suppose I really convinced myself that he was once narcissistic, but he was no longer. To be honest, I'm thinking most of this relationship was about me and my projections, rather than being about 2 people coming together on healthy terms. What I have recognized as I become more self aware, is that for whatever reason, I am not myself emotionally ready for a relationship so these men are very attractive to me. Almost like I feel we can heal each other, which I realize is not a healthy strategy.

[laelithia]

Update:

 

I spoke with him today, I figure why not since this is a done deal anyway, and got some clarity (or at least what he says he believes). He said that he isn't sure why, but that he lost attraction to me after jumping in too quick. When I asked if it was me pushing things too soon (although he started that!) and acting a bit crazy (drunken nights when I got upset at him over nothing), he said "yeah, probably".

 

I think he likely did lose attraction to me, but perhaps not necessarily all to my doing. I think maybe he didn't like the reality of being in a serious relationship, at least right then. Of course now I can't help myself from wondering if the loss of attraction was due to my actions, it was inevitable anyway, or both. To be honest I'm not even sure why I care, and yet I do. I seem to want to solve this "mystery".

[ExpatInItaly]

Update:

 

I spoke with him today, I figure why not since this is a done deal anyway, and got some clarity (or at least what he says he believes). He said that he isn't sure why, but that he lost attraction to me after jumping in too quick. When I asked if it was me pushing things too soon (although he started that!) and acting a bit crazy (drunken nights when I got upset at him over nothing), he said "yeah, probably".

 

I think he likely did lose attraction to me, but perhaps not necessarily all to my doing. I think maybe he didn't like the reality of being in a serious relationship, at least right then. Of course now I can't help myself from wondering if the loss of attraction was due to my actions, it was inevitable anyway, or both. To be honest I'm not even sure why I care, and yet I do. I seem to want to solve this "mystery".

 

Oh, please. This is a load of horse manure. Why are you so fixated on blaming yourself? Quit that. It's a self-defeating venture.

 

You didn't get upset over nothing. You discovered he's into drugs and wanted to involve you. That isn't "nothing." I think the bigger problem is you don't seem to have a true sense of your own values so you will conform to whatever the guy likes, and you use his opinion as a measuring stick of your own self-worth.

 

There's no mystery to solve. You got involved with a guy who had "BAD IDEA" written all over him. And, well, it turned out to indeed be a bad idea.

 

Stop contacting him. Stop blaming yourself; just use better judgment next time and have higher standards.

[laelithia]

Oh, please. This is a load of horse manure. Why are you so fixated on blaming yourself? Quit that. It's a self-defeating venture.

 

You didn't get upset over nothing. You discovered he's into drugs and wanted to involve you. That isn't "nothing." I think the bigger problem is you don't seem to have a true sense of your own values so you will conform to whatever the guy likes, and you use his opinion as a measuring stick of your own self-worth.

 

There's no mystery to solve. You got involved with a guy who had "BAD IDEA" written all over him. And, well, it turned out to indeed be a bad idea.

 

Stop contacting him. Stop blaming yourself; just use better judgment next time and have higher standards.

 

You have valid points, definitely. I may have sugar coated my negative behaviours though... one example is the first visit I was nervous and had too much to drink and "as a joke" threw a wine glass off my balcony... and then dared him to do the same mortifying now, but at the time it seemed funny. I really cannot seem to handle my alcohol after a certain point.

 

What I'm starting to realize is that my bad behaviours definitely did not help the situation, but you're right, he seemed to be not the greatest match to begin with. It's always the handsome bad boys (but good to me at first) I seem to fall for. Hopefully this will change once I take care of myself better and have higher selections of myself and those I chose to date.

[laelithia]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm still struggling with this one. I actually had an appointment with a counsellor yesterday, but I'm not sure I found it very helpful. For the most part she redirected questions back to me, and the only opinion she had on the matter was that I am too hard on myself.

 

I agree to some extent, but I also recognize that men are usually quite skiddish in the beginning stages of dating, and that if they feel pressured, that you are too needy, that you want them more than they want you, they often bail.

 

What I'm wondering, is if that's really what happened here. Full disclosure, I was not on my best behaviour or even in a very good place when we met. I was still hurt from my on/off year long "relationship" that had just permanently ended a month prior, and I think I projected that on him a few times. I even remember comparing him to my ex a few times... they did seem very similar. Perhaps a red flag?

 

Anyway, I'm not even sure anyone can answer this, but I can't help but wonder what the true reason for it ending was. We are still on good terms (I didn't freak out when he said he wasn't sure if he was ready for a relationship with me after all), in fact I was probably too understanding, solely so I could have an open discussion with him about what happened. He said he wasn't necessity sure, but that he seemed to be infatuated with my looks, that he fell for the fantasy, that the feelings we had for each other were fictitious, even if we wanted it to be true. When I asked why he wasn't willing to take things slow and actually get to know me, he said it was because he had lost attraction but that he didn't know why. To me, that hints towards me taking the lead, becoming needy/worried he was backing away, and changing my energy/aura.

 

I know what ifs are not helpful, but I keep wondering now what would have happened if I had given him space when it seemed he was pulling back rather than hound him on what was happening. I wish we had talked about it, rather than him just assuming it couldn't work. I feel he never actually gave me a real chance, and that he was sort of throwing the baby out with the bath water by assuming things couldn't work between us solely because we rushed in too quick. In other words, I'm hurt he didn't see the potential in me like I do in him. He used to say so frequently what a catch I am (I'm 28, attractive, kind, masters degree, stable career, close friends and family, intelligent) yet somehow these traits weren't enough to counteract whatever went wrong?

[Ronnys93]

You're looking for closure. Unfortunately, when people end relationships a lot of the time we're not able to get any closure. I would give your counselor some time, she IS right, you are being extra hard on yourself. It has a lot to do with how you view your self though, because you are sitting here questioning why the break up happened and then projecting his faults onto yourself. You don't have to do all of that.

 

My ex also didn't give me a real chance either. He got scared and backed away enough to the point that he was ready to break up without even letting me know that I could fix any of the issues that were bothering him. I blamed myself the whole way through, but really that was all on him. Work on moving forward and discussing how you can maybe be easier on yourself and assess the breakup in a healthier way with your counselor.

[laelithia]

You're looking for closure. Unfortunately, when people end relationships a lot of the time we're not able to get any closure. I would give your counselor some time, she IS right, you are being extra hard on yourself. It has a lot to do with how you view your self though, because you are sitting here questioning why the break up happened and then projecting his faults onto yourself. You don't have to do all of that.

 

My ex also didn't give me a real chance either. He got scared and backed away enough to the point that he was ready to break up without even letting me know that I could fix any of the issues that were bothering him. I blamed myself the whole way through, but really that was all on him. Work on moving forward and discussing how you can maybe be easier on yourself and assess the breakup in a healthier way with your counselor.

 

I think it's that deep down in my gut, I feel like I messed everything up. Rather than stay calm and look inward, I expected someone else to be the source of my emotional stability, happiness, fulfillment in life, etc. I cannot believe I allowed that to happen again! I have a wonderful life, and for a second I got caught up in the all consuming initial infatuation and lost track of everything else. I honestly feel deep down that had I taken a minute to breath, refocus, we could have had a chance. Even though he was making these grand promises so soon, I truly believe that in the moment he felt like that's what he wanted too. That's why I feel that my needy energy and baggage scared him to the point of not even wanting to try to date each other with a healthy pace...

[laelithia]

Hi Everyone,

 

I have another longer post right now (http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/622202-my-doing-neediness-his-unavailability) that goes into more detail about my last 'relationship', but basically he came on really, really strong at the beginning, made big promises of never "misleading my heart", and feeling certain that I was his "dream woman" and even mentioned a future with children and getting married more than on one occasion. He was showering me with many compliments from my intelligence, to my career, to how attracted he was to me. I was quite cautious at first, but eventually got excited myself at the idea and became just as sappy as he was being. Long story short, he seems to have pulled a 180 1.5 months later and even said he's lost attraction to me.

 

Unfortunately, I'm questioning now whether it was due to my poor behaviours (I did a bunch of no-nos... vented about an ex, got too drunk on more than one occasion and acted crazy, got needy/worried/scared when he pulled away at the slightest) or if these relationships I seem to find myself in are doomed anyway due to the man's emotional unavailability, or maybe both. How can I suss this out and move towards healthy, happy relationships whether this one can be salvaged or not?

[TheWoman]

If he was talking about marriage and kids in the first six weeks, you were probably being love bombed.

 

Seriously, that is not really normal, even if you think about it you probably dont say it yet - because you dont actually know each other yet.

 

You had a lucky escape, love bombers are often narcissists and getting dumped quickly is the easiest way out.

[MountainGirl111]

Yep, that's a 180 alright. From love bombing to 'losing attraction'? Red flag for narcissism.

[d0nnivain]

You can only control yourself. Try to avoid the no nos in the future then you will know that if something goes wrong you weren't the primary cause.

[laelithia]

I can't believe how much this whole thing has upset me. I keep rereading our messages and I can't believe this is the outcome from all of that. So many times he reassured me that everything would work out, that we were just experiencing 'road bumps' in playing to find a way to be together long term. He kept promising that he was committed, that I didn't need to worry, but that he understood why I was. I feel so hurt now that he is talking to other women (our snapchat score used to show a heart meaning we were talking to each other the most, now it doesn't confirming that he is talking to other another woman/women). I honestly can't believe how he is able to replace me so quickly while I am left totally lost and confused.

 

These are some of his direct messages:

- "I'm glad you keep making sure its real we will plan it out and make it happen baby, don't worry. It's like you keep pinching me, figuratively, to make sure I'm real with you. To be honest, I kind of like it"

- "I feel like we are planning the future, just initial concerns. It doesn't mean I'm not committed. It's just processing it and working it out in my head. But i think it would work and it would be wonderful to live together so we could be together as much as possible"

- I wanna give you the world. You really deserve the best man and I wanna be that for you!"

-"You make me feel so good. My dream girl <3"

-"You're everything I've ever wanted and more", to which I said "That's how I feel about you too <3", and he answered "dreams do come true!"

 

These were all after we had met in person. I truly don't comprehend how someone can go from this level of interest in someone to total indifference in a matter of days... I can see now that I was clearly pushing for commitment early to protect myself from his grand sentiments, but I also suggested later that we could take things slow and just date and get to know each other. He agreed, called me 'baby' like usual, and a day later (after some prodding), he admitted he was back on tinder. I really can't make sense of any of this and I can't seem to stop thinking about it.

[ExpatInItaly]

He was still on Tinder, right?

 

You also have to consider the possibility that he just met someone else. Which is actually good news for you, because nothing about this guy indicated that he uses good judgment, common sense and a sound mind. He sounds impulsive and erratic. So while you might have lasted a little while longer, it wouldn't have gone the distance to be the great love story of your life.

 

It's not necessarily that you're attracting the wrong men, but you're not weeding them out. A guy coming at me with talk of marriage and children that soon would have completely creeped me out got himself put on my Do Not Date! list. The fact that you continued despite this weird lovebombing is where you should placing your focus; you were too into the "high" to use your own sound judgment.

[laelithia]

He was still on Tinder, right?

 

You also have to consider the possibility that he just met someone else. Which is actually good news for you, because nothing about this guy indicated that he uses good judgment, common sense and a sound mind. He sounds impulsive and erratic. So while you might have lasted a little while longer, it wouldn't have gone the distance to be the great love story of your life.

 

It's not necessarily that you're attracting the wrong men, but you're not weeding them out. A guy coming at me with talk of marriage and children that soon would have completely creeped me out got himself put on my Do Not Date! list. The fact that you continued despite this weird lovebombing is where you should placing your focus; you were too into the "high" to use your own sound judgment.

 

We deleted our apps together, the last time he came to see me. After I visited for the weekend 14-18th, he was not as talkative as usual. We talked Tuesday and Wednesday, and later on in the week he admitted that he went back on tinder on Wednesday night. I remember being particularly pushy Wednesday asking if everything was okay between us. Of course now I blame that for "pushing him" to go on tinder to get some space from my neediness.

 

I don't know if it was because I wasn't at a good place in my life (stressful job, studying for a licensing exam and failing said exam, getting over a horribly toxic relationship) or that there is a deeper rooted issue, but I really did fall for this person and clearly the illusion he was presenting to me. Even after he pulled back and we both got some perspective, I was willing to try and date at a regular pace to see if we could get back to where we once seemed to be. I'm worried now that there is something wrong with me wanting that, after everything I have experienced.

[ExpatInItaly]

Honestly, the more you say, the more this guy just sounds like a player.

 

I don't think there's something fundamentally "wrong" with you. Many of us encounter people like him and let them hurt us more than they should. And that usually happens when we're feeling less confident and more lonely, so we're more susceptible to fall for the the things we want to hear and ignore the obvious danger signs.

 

Next time, you will know to heed the voice in your head that tells you something is off.

[DontBreakEven]

For real.

 

You got lovebombed and discarded. You got abused. He sounds like a complete and total narcissist and you don't know this yet because you don't actually know him, but all the signs are there. It's not you. It's him.