definitely over with MM [UPDATED: Just Friends?? Or impossible?]

[Imajerk17]

If you are already aware of how much trouble this will cause you, then why don't you just save yourself grief and say no to this "friendship".

 

And it is indeed quite troubling indeed that you don't care about how this is betraying his wife. Do you even get how vallous this sounds from you. Sounds like you are losing/have already lost your conscience and your sense of right and wrong. That is truly sad.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Imajerk17

[S2B]

Impossible...

 

Just my opinion but it's impossible when there's still feelings involved.

 

Healthier to cut and run = so you can move forward and find a healthy relationship/friendship.

[imsosad]

Trying to be friends is trying to avoid the pain of really and truely letting go. You can't fool your pain, it will catch up with you.

I think it can work for a very short and limited period of time and that in the end, it will only add to your pain. It will prevent you from moving forward. You will have to face the pain od seperation at some point, isn't it best to get it overwith?

A couple of things you wrote caught my attention:

He freaks out when you get asked out. How do you feel about that? I find it self centered and immature. He's married, he gets to have it all but he doesn't want you moving on with your life. Not exactly a supportive friend.

Also, I can see why he wants to be friends. He can have you both. When all is said and done, he didnt really have to choose. He didn't lose either of you. No consequence from her for being unfaithful. No consequence from you for staying married.

You said you don't want the drama. Your action don't match your words, my dear. No drama is walking away and taking it like a woman. Being secret friends and getting lovey on texts is an emotional affair, full of drama and waiting to explode.

Do yourself a favor, don't trickle back in to the affair under the pretense of being friends.

[elaine567]

This may have been an affair but what it all boils down to is the dumper/dumpee dynamic.

From your first post it is obvious that he is a bit weak, is maybe a people pleaser and conflict avoidant.

 

Eventually he managed to persuade you he was choosing his wife and dumping you.

Had he not been so weak and you had not been so persistent, he would have made his position a lot clearer earlier on.

 

He is therefore the dumper.

As a dumper, of course he wants to be just friends. It is what dumpers do.

He doesn't want to lose those ego kibbles.

He can sit back as he is not really emotionally invested. He can take it or leave it. He is in a great position. Dumpers can dole out the breadcrumbs, accept the adulation of the dumpee and carry on with their life virtually unscathed.

The dumpee however is not in such a good place The dumpee is desperate for hope, and so will agree to anything and friendship is a lot better then nothing, but that friendship tends to kill them as they cannot sit back, they want more and when it doesn't materialise, they are devastated.

 

Dumpers can also get very jealous and possessive.

The poor dumpee sees that as an indication the dumper is still "in love", but that doesn't usually follow. It doesn't indicate they care or they want the dumpee back, they just do not want anyone else to replace themselves in the dumpee's life. They like being "loved" and "adored", the last thing they want is the dumpee to move on and forget all about them...

 

So whilst this "friendship" is a win win for your MM as the dumper, it is lose lose for you as the dumpee.

[zanwalk]

Your MM is wanting to stay 'friends' with you as a possible backup plan if his marriage did fail, that is why he gets upset if you are dating someone else. In my experience, it is possible to be friends later on, but only after a long period of NC and when both of you have moved on in your lives. Trying to stay friends now is like living with an unexploded bomb under your house - you know it's there but can never be sure it is not going to explode.

 

In my case, a period of around ten years elapsed before we were able to be purely friends again and both of us had moved on and we know that another affair would be unthinkable. I certainly don't want it and I believe she feels the same, though we never talk about the past.

[lostgirl87]

Trying to be friends is trying to avoid the pain of really and truely letting go. You can't fool your pain, it will catch up with you.

I think it can work for a very short and limited period of time and that in the end, it will only add to your pain. It will prevent you from moving forward. You will have to face the pain od seperation at some point, isn't it best to get it overwith?

A couple of things you wrote caught my attention:

He freaks out when you get asked out. How do you feel about that? I find it self centered and immature. He's married, he gets to have it all but he doesn't want you moving on with your life. Not exactly a supportive friend.

Also, I can see why he wants to be friends. He can have you both. When all is said and done, he didnt really have to choose. He didn't lose either of you. No consequence from her for being unfaithful. No consequence from you for staying married.

You said you don't want the drama. Your action don't match your words, my dear. No drama is walking away and taking it like a woman. Being secret friends and getting lovey on texts is an emotional affair, full of drama and waiting to explode.

Do yourself a favor, don't trickle back in to the affair under the pretense of being friends.

I was mad that he dared say anything about me dating given that he chose to stay married for whatever reason (love, obligation, fear- doesn't matter- he stayed even after they had agreed to divorce). I reminded him of that and that's why we fought. Now we keep away from any topics like that and keep it light- talk about weekend plans, work and random stuff.

 

Yeah that's my fear: that this will all blow up and be harder down the line.

 

Thanks for your post

[georgia girl]

Lost girl,

 

This is so wrong - for you! I know how it feels to be in a similar situation. I have certainly had breakups where my boyfriend went on to date another girl but wanted to be friends with me. Unfortunately for me, it kept hope alive and destroyed my self-esteem in the process. Why wasn't I good enough to be his choice? And if we had such a connection that he couldn't walk away from our friendship, dear God, when was he going to put things right and get back with me?!

 

I would like to strongly urge you to stay away from him completely, for your own sake. He is truly just wasting time for you. It ain't ever going back to what it was and what it was wasn't enough for you anyway. Any moment or day you spend with him, thinking of him, pining for him is a day lost with the true love of your life. You are cheating yourself by hanging around him.

 

Do you ever see those girls who have everything and you wonder how they got it? A picture perfect life with a devoted spouse, great kids and a nice house? (Well, first - it's rarely ever perfect.) But I used to and I wondered how they got all that when I was loving, accommodating, understanding and kind. What was I missing? Not the vision for my life but the will to execute it. I was highly successful professionally, had my own house, etc., but really wanted a partner and the guy I had picked was a commitment phobe who just could t decide.

 

So, I walked away. It was so hard that I genuinely passed out on the top of my stairs one night when I wasn't sleeping and was dehydrated. Thankfully, I didn't fall down the stairs. The temptation to go back was so strong, especially when I "needed" him so much, his family loved me and because I was unavailable, he had started to chase again. But this time, my dream was bigger than him in my mind. So I kept walking.

 

A while after that, I met my husband. He is truly the most amazing man on earth to me. We both took it painfully slow but we have been married for about 5 years now and I could never imagine that life could be this good. It stuns me and I remind myself often to be grateful and remember that lonely girl who just wanted this so much.

 

I share my story to really urge you that this guy - as much as you love him - is just a time killer standing in the way of your dreams. But it's up to you. YOU have to be strong enough to walk away and pick yourself first. It is an amazingly hard lesson. But the rewards are so worth it.

 

Good luck,

GG

[BaileyB]

Ok that's your opinion and again, my concern is not his wife.

 

But, it should be. And the fact that it's not, that you don't care about the pain that you have (are) causing another woman, speaks volumes about you.

 

You won't be able to stay friends with your affair partner. You are delusional if you think that it's possible.

[Birdies]

No. It's not "under control". One of you will escalate things just a bit, and the other will go along - over and over, escalating things bit by bit. JUST LIKE THE AFFAIR STARTED. It's almost guaranteed to to go back to a full blown affair.

 

Even if that doesn't happen, you're "being lovey" with a married man and are so emotionally connected to him that you can't lose him in your life. What is that going to get you, long term? Not a partner. Not really a friend - he's much more than that. You will waste months or years that you could spend in an actual, fulfilling relationship that fills your actual needs.

 

Bad idea all around. When my AP and I did this, we always fell back into the physical A. And you're still in the emotional A now.

 

Edit to add: in answer to your poll of sorts - every poster answering here who has tried this, has said that it eventually just led to the full A restarting. Like someone said unthread, this is already Affair Lite. Do you really think you two will be different than everyone else? I don't...

Edited July 11, 2017 by Birdies

[BTDT2012]

If you can't talk honestly about your lives, you are not friends. Your are currently having an emotional affair. It's only a matter of time before he convinces you to meet with him again. Stop playing with fire. You will get burned.

[Eccles]

Having been there about a million times (tragically) I really do not think it is possible to stay friends. For that to truly be the case you need to have lost that emotional connection, but in reality its obviously still simmering away because you want to keep each other in your lives.

 

I also get what you mean when you say you are not responsible for his wife either. Those of us who are in affairs are constantly told we are responsible for our own lives and "own" our decisions. That must go for everyone, and I think she knows he's a cheater? So, in a way she is armed with the facts also. To a certain extent if she has that knowledge it is up to her what she does with it. I think blind trust wouldn't be an option though!! (Not meaning to be inflammatory, I just do kinda understand your point here).

 

But regarding your friendship question, I appreciate why you are asking it, its easier than fully letting go isn't it?

[Bittersweetie]

One thing I learned, after my A, after d-day, after lots of retrospection and self-examination, is that I cannot pursue my own happiness at someone else's expense.

 

This is what you are doing. You tell us the wife is currently a non-entity, not your problem. But you are pursuing your own happiness at the expense of his wife, whether she knows everything or not. I'm not talking about his actions; only yours, and how yours are fitting into the world. You are participating in something that feels good to you (this friendship) at someone else's expense.

 

FWIW, when I was in my A I didn't really care about his wife either. She was his problem, not mine. Heck, I didn't care much about my own husband in the situation. When I think about those thoughts now, it makes me sick that I was so callous and selfish. The mental gymnastics I went through to explain things to myself were epic. I was not a good person. Please don't be me at that time.

[BaileyB]

One thing I learned, after lots of retrospection and self-examination, is that I cannot pursue my own happiness at someone else's expense.

 

This is a powerful statement, a powerful truth.

[freengreen]

Sorry I dont have any real advice par se but I am wondering on how you are scaling down your feelings for him...I mean I am totally incapable of doing it, may be we are just different. How do you deal with that back of the mind voice that you were physically involved once and you can re open that door again?

 

Just curious.

[Starswillshine]

I can understand why you would settle for this, but it does nothing to help you heal. You are just getting your hits but it is delaying something you NEED to do. You keep getting these fixes so you don't have the withdrawal symptoms, and those symptoms are down right scary. O get it. While I know I cannot operate my life like this, I also understand your thought process that if the person who promised to love his BS won't even do what is rught, why should you? Unless you are a psychopath, you, at least deep down, likely feel awful to be doing this to another person. Right now you are justifying it in your head, but I believe you feel it isn't right. And that right there in itself will keep you down.

 

And for what? What do you win in this? Nothing, at all. I am telling you, you are in the envious position because you don't have the life intertwined. You just simple move on. There isn't attorneys, mortgages, children, etc (don't think they have children, right?). There isn't the trying to figure out where you might live (because you shared a house) or how you will afford the things you have (because you are used to the dual income). Etc. It isn't a process.... except an emotional.

 

You are wasting your life and preventing yourself from a real respectful, true love.

 

I mean.... didn't this guy sleep with yet another co-worker when you were "broke up."

[jenkins95]

One thing I learned, after my A, after d-day, after lots of retrospection and self-examination, is that I cannot pursue my own happiness at someone else's expense.

 

This is what you are doing. You tell us the wife is currently a non-entity, not your problem. But you are pursuing your own happiness at the expense of his wife, whether she knows everything or not. I'm not talking about his actions; only yours, and how yours are fitting into the world. You are participating in something that feels good to you (this friendship) at someone else's expense.

 

FWIW, when I was in my A I didn't really care about his wife either. She was his problem, not mine. Heck, I didn't care much about my own husband in the situation. When I think about those thoughts now, it makes me sick that I was so callous and selfish. The mental gymnastics I went through to explain things to myself were epic. I was not a good person. Please don't be me at that time.

 

This is a great post and very much applies to me too. During my A, the OW didn't care about my wife (that was all in me in her eyes) and I reciprocated re her BF. Of course neither of us cared very much about anyone in reality, as long as we got our fun - looking back, I am horrified with shame. Like Bittersweetie said, don't be me! Do as I say, not what I did!!

 

The OW and I tried to be"friends" after the A - total disaster. I barely slept for those few weeks and most of our conversations during that time were characterised wth anger, jealousy, guilt and frustration - doesn't really sound much like friends does it? APs sometimes try to "scale back" but it rarely ever works, we always want more, lines get re-crossed and all the while other people are still being betrayed.

 

I know it's so so tough lostgirl, but try to be stronger than him. Walk away and rescue yourself. We are here for you.

 

I know you as getting a hard time re his wife, but please bare in mind that there are a lot of BS here. There aren't many more cruel things that a spouse can do than have an A, but many BS would probably say that false reconciliation is one of them.... and the fact is that, while this is his choice, you are enabling him. Please stop. x

 

Wish you all the best.

[BaileyB]

 

I mean.... didn't this guy sleep with yet another co-worker when you were "broke up."

 

For real?

 

So, he needs a woman in his bed and it doesn't really matter who that woman is... When you walked away, he had a vacant position and he was quick to fill it! If this is true, this guy is a real jerk!

Edited July 11, 2017 by BaileyB

[lostgirl87]

Sorry I dont have any real advice par se but I am wondering on how you are scaling down your feelings for him...I mean I am totally incapable of doing it, may be we are just different. How do you deal with that back of the mind voice that you were physically involved once and you can re open that door again?

 

Just curious.

I just don't think about it, honestly. Whenever I begin to overthink or get emotional I just snap out of it and focus on the right now. The right now, for me, is my career, my family and my dating/social life. Things that do not include him. I'm tired of being weak or sad over him. I'm sick of crying and I won't do it anymore. Mind over matter. If I just talk myself out of thinking about him and our situation then I'm good. Whenever I think too much (or get on here too much) I get anxious and sad and a bunch of other crappy feelings that I don't want to feel anymore so I simply don't think about it.

 

When he and I talk, it's light. We joke, give each other a hard time, poke fun at other people who annoy us (in a fun way- not in a bully kind of way lol)- stuff like that. Every now and then one or both of us will cross that line with either a sweet or sexual comment and most of the time the other person won't acknowledge it or will change the subject shortly afterward.

 

So that's really it- I just don't think too much about it or what it all means.

[niji]

One thing I learned, after my A, after d-day, after lots of retrospection and self-examination, is that I cannot pursue my own happiness at someone else's expense.

 

Wise words to live by. Makes me shudder at the thought of me once WANTING someone else's husband; repeating to myself, "Why would I do this to another fellow woman?", "Why would I do this to another human being?" and "How much would I enjoy it if I was the wife?" was very helpful in helping me not pursue my feelings.

 

At the end of the day though, it's really not about some random woman you have no connection with (except sharing a common used penis ), it's about YOU. Most people cannot be happy in the long run if that happiness is derived from another's misery. However, if YOU can, then by all means, you do what brings you happiness. Afterall, he owes her his vow, you don't.

Edited July 11, 2017 by niji

[ClassyTaste]

I read your first post and you mentioned he was flirting and talking only, met for casual drinks and he told you he was married giving you the heads up and opportunity to not get into a physical relationship. The one red flag I noticed was you said after he told you he was married that you cussed him out with every cuss word you could think of. I sense so much entitlement for yourself in your postings. You do not seem to have a healthy and happy inner core being. The way you mention you do not give one sh... about his wife is a pretty nasty way of thinking.

 

I know you do not like hearing the tough opinions of others, but you need to find happiness within yourself before anyone will be able to tolerate a relationship long term with you. I hear so many I's in your statements.

[lostgirl87]

Lol. It's MY story. My life. Why wouldn't I use a lot of I?? The only truth I know is mine. What I think, what I feel. That's the only thing I can control.

 

Yes I cussed him out b/c we had made it known we liked each other before he told me he was married.

 

I didn't say I don't give a sh* about his wife. I just said she wasn't my concern b/c she's not MY wife.

 

I'm perfectly happy, thanks. You don't know me b/c you read a few posts.

Edited July 11, 2017 by lostgirl87

[whichwayisup]

Lol. It's MY story. My life. Why wouldn't I use a lot of I?? The only truth I know is mine. What I think, what I feel. That's the only thing I can control.

 

Yes I cussed him out b/c we had made it known we liked each other before he told me he was married.

 

I didn't say I don't give a sh* about his wife. I just said she wasn't my concern b/c she's not MY wife.

 

I'm perfectly happy, thanks. You don't know me b/c you read a few posts.

Then try to be friends with him. Go through what others have gone through by trying to keep a friendship going...You'll learn through more painful experiences that it's impossible and pointless. But if you're happy where you are, why not? You have nothing to lose.

 

Those who are trying to help you are giving you genuine advice and trying to save you from hurting more.

[jenkins95]

...some random woman you have no connection with (except sharing a common used penis ),

 

Mini tj - this had me rolling on the floor wth laughter! Oh thank God for a little comic relief sometimes.

 

I don't mean to be disrespectful in what is a very serious thread, but we're all in pain here, and you have to take your laughs when they are presented to you! Brilliant line niji!

 

In fairness, lostgirl hasn't had much use of that penis lately and doesn't want to go down that path again - well done for that lostgirl.

 

Right, tj over, on with the serious discussion!

[Eccles]

Hmmm. Can't agree with what niji said. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing? Haven't most of us made mistakes? Which is why we seek the support of this board? Key word here being 'support?'

[ClassyTaste]

Lol. It's MY story. My life. Why wouldn't I use a lot of I?? The only truth I know is mine. What I think, what I feel. That's the only thing I can control.

 

Yes I cussed him out b/c we had made it known we liked each other before he told me he was married.

 

I didn't say I don't give a sh* about his wife. I just said she wasn't my concern b/c she's not MY wife.

 

I'm perfectly happy, thanks. You don't know me b/c you read a few posts.

 

 

You are not happy. All your posts show you to be teetering on the edge. You are obsessed and this is going to get you into trouble, if you are unable to curb it and think about some therapy. I understand the pain and so do many others of heart break. By reading your posts it seems as if it has become a competition not a love story. You mentioned you are a size 6-8 and his wife is over 200 lbs. You mentioned you feel like you are way out of his league and made comments of finally, some much need man time. It seems your only validation is through meaningless attention.

 

I am a size 0, tall, and am told how beautiful I am by plenty of people in all walks of life, but this means nothing if you are not beautiful on the INSIDE. There are men in very high leagues with very average wives, but the catch is these women had something inside, a zest for life, and a way of working their surrounding that found them married to brilliant and very successful men who are mesmerized by them.

 

You are missing many essential components and you have no insight to what they are. Once you find these, you can then believe in a 'real,' and 'genuine,'way that you are this great catch.

 

You can dismiss what I am telling you, but you are not appearing to have a stable core self.