definitely over with MM [UPDATED: Just Friends?? Or impossible?]

July 10, 2017

Considering that you're talking to him in secret, I'd say it's clear that no, you can't really be "just" friends. It still will count as an emotional affair, with all the push and pull and excitement.

You may or may not manage to avoid having sex again, but if you keep in contact it's quite likely that someday, eventually, you will fall into bed together again.

Imagine that this wasn't an affair and that it was a normal relationship which had just had a messy breakup. Would you expect to be able to be just friends immediately? Or would that pretty obviously be a problem? I do believe that (normal) exes can be friends, but not right away! They need time to disconnect and re-establish boundaries.

By keeping up a secret connection with him, you're intentionally not re-establishing boundaries.

July 10, 2017

No, it's impossible to be friends with him. You'll never get over him, your feelings for him will prevent you from ever allowing yourself or your heart to feel something for another man.

He'll still be lying to his wife, hiding you from her and making it a secret selfish friendship. It takes away from his wife, what he feels for her. He'll still be lying to her and it's wrong on many levels, because you dislike her and have created ddays by talking to her, he'd be making a fool of her by keeping you in his life even casually. Really most of all you'd be setting yourself up for a fall (aka another big hurt).

July 11, 2017

Hey y'all,

Is it possible to be "just friends" or even acquaintances after an affair? Just a refresh: I spilled the beans to MM's wife twice in a terrible attempt to get out of limbo (with a touch of revenge the first time). Obviously his wife doesn't know we still speak and I have no intention of telling her anything this time around b.c I just don't want the drama. MM and I have NOT seen each other in weeks, we are both adamant that we won't see each other and obviously won't be physical. Every now and then we get a little "lovey" with each other via text but we don't say "I love you" often. We both agree that we want to be friends and we don't want to be out of each other's lives. We don't discuss "us", his marriage, my dating or anything like that b/c it causes us to fight and honestly there's still jealousy there from both of us. We are not over each other by any means but I think we are both really trying, we just don't want to let the friendship go completely.

Please refrain from the judgmental, holier than thou comments. I'm asking a genuine question and I'd prefer to hear from APs since they'd have actual experience in this. Not trying to be mean

Instead of your affair being "definitely over", This sounds to me like Affair Lite. No sex (for now anyway) but keep sneaking around behind Wife's back. You even seem to be aware yourself that what you are doing is (very) wrong and that you'd be getting heat for that--first sentence in your last paragraph.

So to answer your question: No it's not possible to stay friends here. As anyone who has loved and lost can tell you, this is no way to get over a relationship.

What are you both really trying again? Seems like a great way to keep on staying hooked to each other instead.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Imajerk17

July 11, 2017

The reason I asked for no judgmental comments is b/c I know people are going to turn it into "but he's lying to his wife and it's unfair to her". Honestly, that's not my concern. I don't think it's necessarily wrong for he and I to be friendly and to speak every now and then but my concern is more if we are only prolonging the inevitable or if we would eventually fal back into the affair, both emotional and physical, which is what I don't want.

I'm content having him in my life in a limited way. He likes having me in his life too and being my friend. I mean, that's obvious if after 2 Ddays caused by me he is still willing to talk to me and trust me.

Maybe it's not the best idea but it also doesn't feel completely bad b/c right now it's tame and under control. My fear is that one day it may not be enough for him, for me or for both of us. That's why I was wondering if anyone had experience or was able to end the affair by being friends and moving on.

July 11, 2017

The reason I asked for no judgmental comments is b/c I know people are going to turn it into "but he's lying to his wife and it's unfair to her". Honestly, that's not my concern. I don't think it's necessarily wrong for he and I to be friendly and to speak every now and then but my concern is more if we are only prolonging the inevitable or if we would eventually fal back into the affair, both emotional and physical, which is what I don't want.

I'm content having him in my life in a limited way. He likes having me in his life too and being my friend. I mean, that's obvious if after 2 Ddays caused by me he is still willing to talk to me and trust me.

Maybe it's not the best idea but it also doesn't feel completely bad b/c right now it's tame and under control. My fear is that one day it may not be enough for him, for me or for both of us. That's why I was wondering if anyone had experience or was able to end the affair by being friends and moving on.

Yup...been there many times....doesn't work

July 11, 2017

We tried to be "just friends."

We gradually slid down that slope to the exact same place when we ended it the first time.

You can't turn back time and you are just kidding yourselves.

Affairs ruin any possibility of going back to just being friends.

Affairs ruin everything.

July 11, 2017

The reason I asked for no judgmental comments is b/c I know people are going to turn it into "but he's lying to his wife and it's unfair to her". Honestly, that's not my concern. I don't think it's necessarily wrong for he and I to be friendly and to speak every now and then but my concern is more if we are only prolonging the inevitable or if we would eventually fal back into the affair, both emotional and physical, which is what I don't want.

I'm content having him in my life in a limited way. He likes having me in his life too and being my friend. I mean, that's obvious if after 2 Ddays caused by me he is still willing to talk to me and trust me.

Maybe it's not the best idea but it also doesn't feel completely bad b/c right now it's tame and under control. My fear is that one day it may not be enough for him, for me or for both of us. That's why I was wondering if anyone had experience or was able to end the affair by being friends and moving on.

But, it IS wrong, whether you think it is or not. I mean 2+2 is 4 no matter whether I think it should be 3 or 5 or whatever. You had an affair w him and by continuing to talk to you even about the weather (yeah right) he is betraying his wife.

To answer your question, no this will not end well. That you are both going through so much energy to keep your "friendship" going means you will eventually be drawn back into the affair.

July 11, 2017

But, it IS wrong, whether you think it is or not. I mean 2+2 is 4 no matter whether I think it should be 3 or 5 or whatever. You had an affair w him and by continuing to talk to you even about the weather (yeah right) he is betraying his wife.

To answer your question, no this will not end well. That you are both going through so much energy to keep your "friendship" going means you will eventually be drawn back into the affair.

Ok that's your opinion and again, my concern is not his wife.

July 11, 2017

It seems by not concerning yourself with his wife, you're giving (asking?) yourself permission to do this. If it's all so ok and friendly and real and genuine, why are you asking the cyber world for advice? Ask her! She's more directly impacted than any of us! Seems clear you're not interested in opinions that involve you being in the wrong, or the wife being hurt. That works fine if the man you're best friends with is single and there is no wife. You can't just wish her away and tell yourself you're not doing anything wrong. It comes off as immature and spoiled.

And it seems pretty obvious that you really do want the drama. The drama started when you both chose thevaffair. The drama you don't want is what's called adult consequences. You have the choice to make this right.

July 11, 2017

So at this point whatever is "missing" is still missing. He supplements it with you. He gets his wife, his home life persona, your "friendship" what do you get?

The times I have dated or planned to. I told MM. The fact there's jealousy and causes conflict tells you that you are not friends and can't be. It's too fresh.

July 11, 2017

I wrote nearly what you wrote about it being "tame" in my journal at the time. I wrote that I was maintaining some distance; not sharing too much; keeping focus on my life; felt I had it under control.

Deep down; or not so deep; I knew I was kidding myself. I just didn't want to let go. He was my closest confidant. Nearly my only friend. Someone who made me feel like I could do anything. Special.

But how can you pretend that a friendship is all you want when you love someone? It's like a drawn out heartbreak by thousands of tiny stab wounds.

Fiona Apple said it best..."Once my lover, now my friend...what a cruel thing to pretend."

July 11, 2017

It seems by not concerning yourself with his wife, you're giving (asking?) yourself permission to do this. If it's all so ok and friendly and real and genuine, why are you asking the cyber world for advice? Ask her! She's more directly impacted than any of us! Seems clear you're not interested in opinions that involve you being in the wrong, or the wife being hurt. That works fine if the man you're best friends with is single and there is no wife. You can't just wish her away and tell yourself you're not doing anything wrong. It comes off as immature and spoiled.

And it seems pretty obvious that you really do want the drama. The drama started when you both chose thevaffair. The drama you don't want is what's called adult consequences. You have the choice to make this right.

I'm not asking for advice, I'm asking if anybody had experience AS AN AP in remaining friends after the affair. She's not my wife. I didn't go after him asking to be friends. If he wants to keep secrets from her that's on him. I'm just not going to disclose anything to her- she knows A LOT and changed her mind about divorcing so it's not like she's completely in the dark about the depth of our relationship. She's "caught" him talking to me several times even after 2 Ddays and nothing has changed. Like I said, she's not my concern.

July 11, 2017

So at this point whatever is "missing" is still missing. He supplements it with you. He gets his wife, his home life persona, your "friendship" what do you get?

The times I have dated or planned to. I told MM. The fact there's jealousy and causes conflict tells you that you are not friends and can't be. It's too fresh.

I get my friend. Which (for right now) is good enough for me. Like I said, right now it's good and under control. I'm more worried about what's going to happen in a few weeks if this "friendship" continues. Im afraid it will get out of hand. Again.

And yes, when I told him I was dating and that a mutual acquaintance had asked me out he flipped out and actually said something to this acquaintance. I was so embarrassed! That's when we decided we couldn't discuss dating or his marriage, good or bad.

Seems pretty clear that us being friends isn't the best idea and it most likely will blow up not too far down the line. Ugh.

July 11, 2017

I wrote nearly what you wrote about it being "tame" in my journal at the time. I wrote that I was maintaining some distance; not sharing too much; keeping focus on my life; felt I had it under control.

Deep down; or not so deep; I knew I was kidding myself. I just didn't want to let go. He was my closest confidant. Nearly my only friend. Someone who made me feel like I could do anything. Special.

But how can you pretend that a friendship is all you want when you love someone? It's like a drawn out heartbreak by thousands of tiny stab wounds.

Fiona Apple said it best..."Once my lover, now my friend...what a cruel thing to pretend."

Yup. Exactly my thoughts. Except I don't believe I'm kidding myself. Am I in denial? Who knows. It's possible. I probably feel ok b/c in this moment, it's under control. But I'm sure if we somehow justified meeting up it would only escalate from there and that's exactly what I don't want. It just sucks! I really do want his friendship. He and I agree that our friendship is the hardest thing to let go of. It also doesn't help that he "admitted" he is still confused about what to do in his marriage. That topic plus his jealousy over my dating is what made me say that we couldn't discuss those 2 things and we haven't. Now that I've written that out it's clear that in a few weeks, we will be back in the limbo that I worked so hard to get out of. Great...

July 11, 2017

If you are already aware of how much trouble this will cause you, then why don't you just save yourself grief and say no to this "friendship".

And it is indeed quite troubling indeed that you don't care about how this is betraying his wife. Do you even get how vallous this sounds from you. Sounds like you are losing/have already lost your conscience and your sense of right and wrong. That is truly sad.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Imajerk17

July 11, 2017

Trying to be friends is trying to avoid the pain of really and truely letting go. You can't fool your pain, it will catch up with you.

I think it can work for a very short and limited period of time and that in the end, it will only add to your pain. It will prevent you from moving forward. You will have to face the pain od seperation at some point, isn't it best to get it overwith?

A couple of things you wrote caught my attention:

He freaks out when you get asked out. How do you feel about that? I find it self centered and immature. He's married, he gets to have it all but he doesn't want you moving on with your life. Not exactly a supportive friend.

Also, I can see why he wants to be friends. He can have you both. When all is said and done, he didnt really have to choose. He didn't lose either of you. No consequence from her for being unfaithful. No consequence from you for staying married.

You said you don't want the drama. Your action don't match your words, my dear. No drama is walking away and taking it like a woman. Being secret friends and getting lovey on texts is an emotional affair, full of drama and waiting to explode.

Do yourself a favor, don't trickle back in to the affair under the pretense of being friends.

July 11, 2017

This may have been an affair but what it all boils down to is the dumper/dumpee dynamic.

From your first post it is obvious that he is a bit weak, is maybe a people pleaser and conflict avoidant.

Eventually he managed to persuade you he was choosing his wife and dumping you.

Had he not been so weak and you had not been so persistent, he would have made his position a lot clearer earlier on.

He is therefore the dumper.

As a dumper, of course he wants to be just friends. It is what dumpers do.

He doesn't want to lose those ego kibbles.

He can sit back as he is not really emotionally invested. He can take it or leave it. He is in a great position. Dumpers can dole out the breadcrumbs, accept the adulation of the dumpee and carry on with their life virtually unscathed.

The dumpee however is not in such a good place The dumpee is desperate for hope, and so will agree to anything and friendship is a lot better then nothing, but that friendship tends to kill them as they cannot sit back, they want more and when it doesn't materialise, they are devastated.

Dumpers can also get very jealous and possessive.

The poor dumpee sees that as an indication the dumper is still "in love", but that doesn't usually follow. It doesn't indicate they care or they want the dumpee back, they just do not want anyone else to replace themselves in the dumpee's life. They like being "loved" and "adored", the last thing they want is the dumpee to move on and forget all about them...

So whilst this "friendship" is a win win for your MM as the dumper, it is lose lose for you as the dumpee.

July 11, 2017

Your MM is wanting to stay 'friends' with you as a possible backup plan if his marriage did fail, that is why he gets upset if you are dating someone else. In my experience, it is possible to be friends later on, but only after a long period of NC and when both of you have moved on in your lives. Trying to stay friends now is like living with an unexploded bomb under your house - you know it's there but can never be sure it is not going to explode.

In my case, a period of around ten years elapsed before we were able to be purely friends again and both of us had moved on and we know that another affair would be unthinkable. I certainly don't want it and I believe she feels the same, though we never talk about the past.

July 11, 2017

Trying to be friends is trying to avoid the pain of really and truely letting go. You can't fool your pain, it will catch up with you.
I think it can work for a very short and limited period of time and that in the end, it will only add to your pain. It will prevent you from moving forward. You will have to face the pain od seperation at some point, isn't it best to get it overwith?
A couple of things you wrote caught my attention:
He freaks out when you get asked out. How do you feel about that? I find it self centered and immature. He's married, he gets to have it all but he doesn't want you moving on with your life. Not exactly a supportive friend.
Also, I can see why he wants to be friends. He can have you both. When all is said and done, he didnt really have to choose. He didn't lose either of you. No consequence from her for being unfaithful. No consequence from you for staying married.
You said you don't want the drama. Your action don't match your words, my dear. No drama is walking away and taking it like a woman. Being secret friends and getting lovey on texts is an emotional affair, full of drama and waiting to explode.
Do yourself a favor, don't trickle back in to the affair under the pretense of being friends.

I was mad that he dared say anything about me dating given that he chose to stay married for whatever reason (love, obligation, fear- doesn't matter- he stayed even after they had agreed to divorce). I reminded him of that and that's why we fought. Now we keep away from any topics like that and keep it light- talk about weekend plans, work and random stuff.

Yeah that's my fear: that this will all blow up and be harder down the line.

Thanks for your post

July 11, 2017

Lost girl,

This is so wrong - for you! I know how it feels to be in a similar situation. I have certainly had breakups where my boyfriend went on to date another girl but wanted to be friends with me. Unfortunately for me, it kept hope alive and destroyed my self-esteem in the process. Why wasn't I good enough to be his choice? And if we had such a connection that he couldn't walk away from our friendship, dear God, when was he going to put things right and get back with me?!

I would like to strongly urge you to stay away from him completely, for your own sake. He is truly just wasting time for you. It ain't ever going back to what it was and what it was wasn't enough for you anyway. Any moment or day you spend with him, thinking of him, pining for him is a day lost with the true love of your life. You are cheating yourself by hanging around him.

Do you ever see those girls who have everything and you wonder how they got it? A picture perfect life with a devoted spouse, great kids and a nice house? (Well, first - it's rarely ever perfect.) But I used to and I wondered how they got all that when I was loving, accommodating, understanding and kind. What was I missing? Not the vision for my life but the will to execute it. I was highly successful professionally, had my own house, etc., but really wanted a partner and the guy I had picked was a commitment phobe who just could t decide.

So, I walked away. It was so hard that I genuinely passed out on the top of my stairs one night when I wasn't sleeping and was dehydrated. Thankfully, I didn't fall down the stairs. The temptation to go back was so strong, especially when I "needed" him so much, his family loved me and because I was unavailable, he had started to chase again. But this time, my dream was bigger than him in my mind. So I kept walking.

A while after that, I met my husband. He is truly the most amazing man on earth to me. We both took it painfully slow but we have been married for about 5 years now and I could never imagine that life could be this good. It stuns me and I remind myself often to be grateful and remember that lonely girl who just wanted this so much.

I share my story to really urge you that this guy - as much as you love him - is just a time killer standing in the way of your dreams. But it's up to you. YOU have to be strong enough to walk away and pick yourself first. It is an amazingly hard lesson. But the rewards are so worth it.

Good luck,

GG

July 11, 2017

Ok that's your opinion and again, my concern is not his wife.

But, it should be. And the fact that it's not, that you don't care about the pain that you have (are) causing another woman, speaks volumes about you.

You won't be able to stay friends with your affair partner. You are delusional if you think that it's possible.

July 11, 2017

No. It's not "under control". One of you will escalate things just a bit, and the other will go along - over and over, escalating things bit by bit. JUST LIKE THE AFFAIR STARTED. It's almost guaranteed to to go back to a full blown affair.

Even if that doesn't happen, you're "being lovey" with a married man and are so emotionally connected to him that you can't lose him in your life. What is that going to get you, long term? Not a partner. Not really a friend - he's much more than that. You will waste months or years that you could spend in an actual, fulfilling relationship that fills your actual needs.

Bad idea all around. When my AP and I did this, we always fell back into the physical A. And you're still in the emotional A now.

Edit to add: in answer to your poll of sorts - every poster answering here who has tried this, has said that it eventually just led to the full A restarting. Like someone said unthread, this is already Affair Lite. Do you really think you two will be different than everyone else? I don't...

Edited July 11, 2017 by Birdies

July 11, 2017

If you can't talk honestly about your lives, you are not friends. Your are currently having an emotional affair. It's only a matter of time before he convinces you to meet with him again. Stop playing with fire. You will get burned.

July 11, 2017

Having been there about a million times (tragically) I really do not think it is possible to stay friends. For that to truly be the case you need to have lost that emotional connection, but in reality its obviously still simmering away because you want to keep each other in your lives.

I also get what you mean when you say you are not responsible for his wife either. Those of us who are in affairs are constantly told we are responsible for our own lives and "own" our decisions. That must go for everyone, and I think she knows he's a cheater? So, in a way she is armed with the facts also. To a certain extent if she has that knowledge it is up to her what she does with it. I think blind trust wouldn't be an option though!! (Not meaning to be inflammatory, I just do kinda understand your point here).

But regarding your friendship question, I appreciate why you are asking it, its easier than fully letting go isn't it?

July 11, 2017

One thing I learned, after my A, after d-day, after lots of retrospection and self-examination, is that I cannot pursue my own happiness at someone else's expense.

This is what you are doing. You tell us the wife is currently a non-entity, not your problem. But you are pursuing your own happiness at the expense of his wife, whether she knows everything or not. I'm not talking about his actions; only yours, and how yours are fitting into the world. You are participating in something that feels good to you (this friendship) at someone else's expense.

FWIW, when I was in my A I didn't really care about his wife either. She was his problem, not mine. Heck, I didn't care much about my own husband in the situation. When I think about those thoughts now, it makes me sick that I was so callous and selfish. The mental gymnastics I went through to explain things to myself were epic. I was not a good person. Please don't be me at that time.

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definitely over with MM [UPDATED: Just Friends?? Or impossible?]

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