definitely over with MM [UPDATED: Just Friends?? Or impossible?]

May 28, 2017

HNT, please show us how to leave a toxic relationship. Seems a lot of us here (me!) are missing that capability.

Sorry LG, don't want to hijack your thread but Here's advice could help us both out.

May 28, 2017

I'm not analyzing their marriage. I said all of that to express that I do understand why she's reacting this way. That she's going through a tough time.

She doesn't owe me anything. She can throw me under the bus and make up whatever she wants. I don't owe her anything either to be honest. I had a relationship with him while he was married to her. Sure, it was wrong. I'm not expecting her to care about me. I didn't pay any mind to her when I was with him so makes sense. I just don't want to know about it. I didn't want to be dragged back in and yes, in hindsight I shouldn't have answered the calls.

I don't care if I confirmed her suspicions. He should have thought about that before calling me and involving me when I had already walked away. I also don't care if he is failing her tests lol. I did what I needed to do which was walk away.

I don't need to be convinced that I'm some evil vile man-stealing whore b/c that's not what I am so y'all are wasting your typing trying to convince me that this is what I get and I need to tolerate all of this crazy behavior. I'm fine with the fact that I need to walk away and accept that he and I are over and he's staying with her for whatever reasons. But that's it. As long as I stay away and respect that decision from here on out, I'm doing what I need to be doing.

Hi dear, I must comment on this and the truth is you haven't walked away at anytime. That closure talk did more harm than good. You are still so drawn and feel the need to defend yourself like matter concerning him needs clarifications. Based on your comments I still think you seem to have a sense of loyalty to him.

I wish for you to get to the point where you just don't care about him and his drama cos that's what married men are. Nothing but drama!

If xmm ever contacted me.... it will be radio silence!!! He won't be even worthy of a response! You should get there

May 28, 2017

It does become a consequence of being involved in an affair. Like it or not, you put yourself in the middle of their marriage. So here you are... dealing with drama. Nothing cam be undone.

You sent her husband a long email discussing your feelings for him. You say you have an app that says he opened it 6 times... how do you know it wasn't her?

Just like you want her to know you are not her enemy. You should also know, she isn't your enemy. You wrote how she sent you screenshots of him telling her he loved her, she wasn't sending you those to compete. She is sending those to you for you to see how it really is. She wants to know if he is telling you those things because she wants to know the real nature of your relationship. Perhaps to see if it aligns with what he tells her. What he says, what you say means Jack. You both are proven liars to her. The only thing is physical proof. You took it as a game. This is her life.

She doesn't have access to that email the last I knew. And he wrote to me from it just recently. I'm sure I would have heard about any email when I spoke with her since that email was sent before all of this new drama happened.

I never took anything as a game so please don't assume that about me. It's my life too. I'm not married to him but it's still my life. It's still a year and a half of my life that i wasted on someone I fell in love with. Sure I knew he was married shortly after this all started and could have ended it before I was this invested and I didn't. I can't go back in time. I let it all get away from me. I understand that and I'm not denying that. But please do not ever think that I am toying with anyone's emotions or find some type of amusement from being in this situation and being a participant in someone else's pain. After all that's what a game is right? Something you do for fun? I am actually offended by that b/c i am not evil. I have a good heart and my intention isn't ever to cause someone pain. If that's what I wanted to do, i would tell her or show her messages where he said extremely unkind things about her. I would show her intimate photos of us (not sexual). I would tell her about all the intimate and personal things he shared with me about her and her family. I am NOT evil. I do not enjoy this one bit.

And she already knows the nature of our relationship. She has seen texts where he and I were talking about our future wedding, messages where he repeatedly told me how much he loved me, how gorgeous I am and so much more. She has chosen to stay with him despite that and I will not continue to engage in the exchange of messages and trying to one-up her messages.

May 28, 2017

HNT, please show us how to leave a toxic relationship. Seems a lot of us here (me!) are missing that capability.

Sorry LG, don't want to hijack your thread but Here's advice could help us both out.

It's not threadjacking because it's relevant to the thread. There's nothing that could be more relevant really.

Leaving these type of situations is the "hardest easy thing" I've ever had to do.

Blocking them and initiating NC is the biggest part for sure but you're not NC if you're still arguing with them in your in head. You're not NC if you're still trying to rehash the details in your mind. Like I said in a previous comment, this is done one thought at a time, not through one magic epiphany.

Everyone wants closure but closure is a myth. I can assure you that digging up Grandma for one last hug isn't going to make you feel any better. All it's going to do is make you feel dirty. You have to be okay without receiving the resolution you so deeply desire.

Sadly, a lot of people don't want to give up the intrusive thoughts. Seems counterintuitive, right? But it's their last link to the relationship. They know once they let them go, the last little bit of the relationship dies. Not that it wasn't already dead, but the pain, despite everything it's robbed from you guys, feels familiar. It's warm like an opiate and it keeps you on the hook. The highs, the lows, the fantasies, do become addictive. You may not truly be addicted to the person in a classical medical sense, but you do get addicted to the roller coaster ride. I know because I've been on it.

Always try to look at your situation from a 3rd person's perspective. From the outside looking in, there's no viable way for lostgirl to ever "win" or come out on top here if she continues. If OM left his wife tomorrow, moved into a new place, and they could actually start a "real" relationship, she still loses. No matter what she thinks or how she feels about him, she would spend the rest of her life watching her back until he traded her in for a new model. He's a scumbag who has no loyalty. That doesn't mean he's not a fun person to hang out with or not a passionate lover. By all accounts, it sounds like he's mastered that part. But we know based on his past behavior, on a long enough time scale, he wouldn't be loyal. And god forbid she had a kid with him, OMG. Then she's linked with the jerk for life. Right now she still has a chance to reclaim her life. There will be a day she doesn't though if she continues.

These emotional vampires rob you of your self worth and confidence. You have to get back out into the world and reclaim those things. Confidence isn't something you talk yourself into, it's the sum of the successes you've had. If you haven't been having successful relationships, you have no reason to be confident in the first place. Get out there and have some successful interactions first. Meet some new people and get that validation. You need it because so much of it has been stolen from you. Get drunk and make out with a biker if you have to, talk with a stranger at a bar and don't get their number later, lol (I'm joking, kinda.) You do this by any means necessary. It's a fight for your freedom which by proxy is a fight for your life because life isn't worth living if you're a slave to some abusive bastard.

Like I said, it's the hardest easy thing you'll ever have to do. Because the hard part isn't doing it, the hard part is accepting it and living without closure. The further you get away, the smaller the situation appears in your rearview mirror, the clearer the truth becomes. Sometimes in life you have to run towards the pain to get it over with. You'll see, but you have to want it first.

May 28, 2017

Hi dear, I must comment on this and the truth is you haven't walked away at anytime. That closure talk did more harm than good. You are still so drawn and feel the need to defend yourself like matter concerning him needs clarifications. Based on your comments I still think you seem to have a sense of loyalty to him.

I wish for you to get to the point where you just don't care about him and his drama cos that's what married men are. Nothing but drama!

If xmm ever contacted me.... it will be radio silence!!! He won't be even worthy of a response! You should get there

At least to their knowledge, I've walked away b:c I don't try to communicate with him. The way I feel or what I post here is not something he knows about. I think the closure talk helped me b/c it didn't leave anything unanswered and that helps me with regard to my anxiety. I need to get answers and have finality.

The truth is there is nothing that he can give me or say to me that is going to make me 100% better today. That comes from me. I am aware of that. Am I there already? No, I'm not. But one day I will be. I don't think I'll love him forever. I don't think I'll compare every man to him. Maybe at first but not forever. I don't think my life will be forever negatively impacted b/c of him and this situation. But at least for right now, it hurts. And it's scary to imagine him completely gone but it's what needs to happen.

You're right that I still have a sense of loyalty to him. I absolutely do and that's why I didn't give his wife any real or damaging information even when she was placing all the blame on me. Although I know she was just emotional and taking out her frustrations on me so I don't fault her one bit. I could have said a lot but I chose not to. And the biggest reason for that is b/c I didn't want to make things worse for him. It's stupid of me but ultimately I feel better not having said anything else. I'm Extremely loyal. To a fault. I have never betrayed someone that I have any type of relationship with. It's simply not my style. And honestly I am not trying to break them up. Maybe they'll have a better chance of fixing things without any more additional information. If he can be happy with her then that's great. I want him to be happy. I want to be happy too. We all deserve that.

I want to get to that point too and I believe I will one day. I just have to get through the beginning phase and it's hard. But I'll be there eventually. And I pray that if he ever tries to contact me again or decides he wants me back in his life that I'll be strong enough to ignore him.

May 28, 2017

She doesn't have access to that email the last I knew. And he wrote to me from it just recently. I'm sure I would have heard about any email when I spoke with her since that email was sent before all of this new drama happened.

I never took anything as a game so please don't assume that about me. It's my life too. I'm not married to him but it's still my life. It's still a year and a half of my life that i wasted on someone I fell in love with. Sure I knew he was married shortly after this all started and could have ended it before I was this invested and I didn't. I can't go back in time. I let it all get away from me. I understand that and I'm not denying that. But please do not ever think that I am toying with anyone's emotions or find some type of amusement from being in this situation and being a participant in someone else's pain. After all that's what a game is right? Something you do for fun? I am actually offended by that b/c i am not evil. I have a good heart and my intention isn't ever to cause someone pain. If that's what I wanted to do, i would tell her or show her messages where he said extremely unkind things about her. I would show her intimate photos of us (not sexual). I would tell her about all the intimate and personal things he shared with me about her and her family. I am NOT evil. I do not enjoy this one bit.

And she already knows the nature of our relationship. She has seen texts where he and I were talking about our future wedding, messages where he repeatedly told me how much he loved me, how gorgeous I am and so much more. She has chosen to stay with him despite that and I will not continue to engage in the exchange of messages and trying to one-up her messages.

My apologies. I didn't mean it to come off as you were playing a game. I mean you took it as she was playing a game. But I did a horrible job saying it.

I am sorry I offended you. Wasn't my intent.

May 28, 2017

Sooooooo, how'd the day on the water go? Did it make you feel better being out in the real world and meeting new people? Did the distractions put a little more distance between you and the obsessive thoughts? Have any good epiphanies or introspective thoughts? Catch any cute boys giving you "the look" and did it make your heart race a little?

May 28, 2017

Sooooooo, how'd the day on the water go? Did it make you feel better being out in the real world and meeting new people? Did the distractions put a little more distance between you and the obsessive thoughts? Have any good epiphanies or introspective thoughts? Catch any cute boys giving you "the look" and did it make your heart race a little?

Haha actually I did get some much needed male attention! It was great to be out in the sun and amongst great friends plus a few new people.

I had SO much fun. I had actually pulled a few of my close friends aside and told them that if they notice me withdrawing or spending too much time on my phone to please take it away b/c after a few drinks I may need help. Luckily I was stronger than I thought and kept my phone in my bag and stowed away. I didn't check it for close to 12 hours and it was liberating.

One of the guys (a fellow attorney) on the boat mentioned getting an even larger group together to rent a house boat for 24 hours. At that point I thought "wow. If MM were here or part of this group, he wouldn't be able to participate b/c chances are he wouldn't be able to afford it or I'd have to pay for both of us which would likely cause a fight". For the first i realized how limited my life would be if I ended up with him. I realized that even though I don't think I'm better than anyone because of my profession or income I shouldn't feel guilty for what I have or what I've accomplished. I deserve someone at or above my financial level. I'm not a gold digger or money-obsessed but I do enjoy treating myself and with MM, my life would be completely different than if I were to end up with another professional who is comparable to me.

I'm not over him by any means but flirting and getting to know attractive single professional men didremind me that there are so many options out there! That I AM a catch. That I wasn't meant for more and that I deserve more. It's only the beginning but I am coming to terms with the fact that this is the end. That I do love MM and what we had was probably real to an extent but it's not meant to be forever. He did show me that I am capable of loving and giving myself completely to someone so I'm thankful for that. Now I get to find a man who will love and give himself completely but only to me. Not someone I have to share.

May 28, 2017

Good for you. Like I said, I know attorney culture very well. In fact, you know the attorney group I work with, or you at least know of them.

The culture is drastically different than STEM culture so it's hard for me to relate, but it's probably good to date other attorneys if you are one. Having standards (within reason) doesn't make you a gold digger as long as you're reasonable about it. I definitely feel you on wanting to date other people on the same financial level as you. I deal with this with friends as well as dating.

A hard truth in your story is that you drastically lowered your standards in just about every possible arena for this guy. That's okay, I've made that mistake myself. It's important for you to learn a lesson from it. Sorry, it's not meant to insult you, just the truth. You know your inherent worth, don't settle ever again.

Sorry if I missed it in your story, but are you in therapy? If not, you should have done that like yesterday. I've been going for about 4 years now and it really changed my life for the better. I think now is a really good time for you to channel some of your energy into self improvement. It pays off sooooo much, omg. I can't even begin to describe how much better my life is now that I've conquered some of my anxiety. It's opened a lot of doors for me that I didn't think we're possible. So happy for you, btw. I'm glad the Universe lined up in just the right way for my words to hit you when you needed them. It almost makes up for all the times it didn't line up and screwed me over.

Edited May 29, 2017 by HereNorThere

May 29, 2017

Good for you. Like I said, I know attorney culture very well. In fact, you know the attorney group I work with, or you at least know of them.

The culture is drastically different than STEM culture so it's hard for me to relate, but it's probably good to date other attorneys if you are one. Having standards (within reason) doesn't make you a gold digger as long as you're reasonable about it. I definitely feel you on wanting to date other people on the same financial level as you. I deal with this with friends as well as dating.

A hard truth in your story is that you drastically lowered your standards in just about every possible arena for this guy. That's okay, I've made that mistake myself. It's important for you to learn a lesson from it. Sorry, it's not meant to insult you, just the truth. You know your inherent worth, don't settle ever again.

Sorry if I missed it in your story, but are you in therapy? If not, you should have done that like yesterday. I've been going for about 4 years now and it really changed my life for the better. I think now is a really good time for you to channel some of your energy into self improvement. It pays off sooooo much, omg. I can't even begin to describe how much better my life is now that I've conquered some of my anxiety. It's opened a lot of doors for me that I didn't think we're possible. So happy for you, btw. I'm glad the Universe lined up in just the right way for my words to hit you when you needed them. It almost makes up for all the times it didn't line up and screwed me over.

What's kind of funny is I don't feel like being with MM would have been settling or lowering my standards. Yes the income disparity and difference in education are important but what I had with him was so fulfilling in other ways. As I've stated on here, he and I didn't have sex for about 6-7 months. I've never dated a guy that long without a physical component to the relationship (especially b/c I am an extremely sexual person). I feel like him being married actually resulted in us getting to know each other as much as we did. He was my best friend. The person I told everything to. When I was stressed or overworked, he would do extra work to catch me up without me knowing. When I would have 6 cups of coffee b/c I was too busy to stop and actually eat, he would bring me lunch b/c he knew how sick I'd eventually get. He knew the real me and he cared for me and loved me and put up with me. When I was unemployed for months he would transfer money to me b/c he knew living off savings without replenishing was stressing me the eff out. All of these small things (that I've never received from a man) made me not care about our obvious differences. I felt that he loved me and I felt like he could take care of me and protect me and that he cared about me as a person. Not b/c I was pretty or an attorney or anything superficial but b/c I mattered to him. So again, I still don't feel like I lowered my standards b/c based on what I saw and the way he treated me, I was pretty damn lucky to have him. Obviously the game has changed and it got very complicated. And of course I shouldn't have felt lucky to have someone else's husband but again, based on what I thought we had, I thought we were going to figure it out. It felt real and if everything else had lined up, I feel like I would have been very happy with him. But, I guess it wasn't meant to be.

I have gone to therapy as a result of this situation 3 times. I haven't been consistent and I haven't been in a few weeks. I did a lot of therapy when I had my little hiccup with alcohol and amohetamines so I use the skills I learned in that to help ease my anxiety now. I may try and make therapy a more consistent thing but we'll see.

I'm so glad you found my thread and commented- I don't know if it was your words or the timing or both, but something has changed in me. You've sparked something and I'm extremely grateful.

May 29, 2017

Hi lostgirl87,

I'm new here but read your post and can relate as I know what you have and are going through. I'm the OM on my situation and have hung on to the words, promises, and ambiguity for nearly five years until very recently. In my case however, I made the change, left my wife, for my AP who then stalled, came up with every excuse and flip flopped regularly. Like you, I lost my job in part due to the affair, just two weeks after leaving my wife for her. Ironically, my now ex wife is also an attorney.

I actually posted my story in this forum today and am waiting for the moderators to post it. Like you, I'm a confident, accomplished and desirable individual, but this (my) whole ordeal shook me to my core and to the depths of my soul. I wish that no one ever has to go through this because it's simply miserable.

My AP and I have been NC for almost two weeks now and I'm trying hard to forget and move on but the struggle is real when two people share an undeniably incredible bond. I know this all to well...

May 29, 2017

Hi lostgirl87,

I'm new here but read your post and can relate as I know what you have and are going through. I'm the OM on my situation and have hung on to the words, promises, and ambiguity for nearly five years until very recently. In my case however, I made the change, left my wife, for my AP who then stalled, came up with every excuse and flip flopped regularly. Like you, I lost my job in part due to the affair, just two weeks after leaving my wife for her. Ironically, my now ex wife is also an attorney.

I actually posted my story in this forum today and am waiting for the moderators to post it. Like you, I'm a confident, accomplished and desirable individual, but this (my) whole ordeal shook me to my core and to the depths of my soul. I wish that no one ever has to go through this because it's simply miserable.

My AP and I have been NC for almost two weeks now and I'm trying hard to forget and move on but the struggle is real when two people share an undeniably incredible bond. I know this all to well...

Wow I am so sorry!! What you're going through has to be so much worse. Not only the duration of the relationship but also the fact that you made such big changes for your AP. I look forward to reading your story whenever it is posted.

The struggle is definitely real when you feel connected to someone on so many different levels. Here's hoping we can all get through this and come out stronger, better people!

May 29, 2017

Haha actually I did get some much needed male attention! It was great to be out in the sun and amongst great friends plus a few new people.

I had SO much fun. I had actually pulled a few of my close friends aside and told them that if they notice me withdrawing or spending too much time on my phone to please take it away b/c after a few drinks I may need help. Luckily I was stronger than I thought and kept my phone in my bag and stowed away. I didn't check it for close to 12 hours and it was liberating.

One of the guys (a fellow attorney) on the boat mentioned getting an even larger group together to rent a house boat for 24 hours. At that point I thought "wow. If MM were here or part of this group, he wouldn't be able to participate b/c chances are he wouldn't be able to afford it or I'd have to pay for both of us which would likely cause a fight". For the first i realized how limited my life would be if I ended up with him. I realized that even though I don't think I'm better than anyone because of my profession or income I shouldn't feel guilty for what I have or what I've accomplished. I deserve someone at or above my financial level. I'm not a gold digger or money-obsessed but I do enjoy treating myself and with MM, my life would be completely different than if I were to end up with another professional who is comparable to me.

I'm not over him by any means but flirting and getting to know attractive single professional men didremind me that there are so many options out there! That I AM a catch. That I wasn't meant for more and that I deserve more. It's only the beginning but I am coming to terms with the fact that this is the end. That I do love MM and what we had was probably real to an extent but it's not meant to be forever. He did show me that I am capable of loving and giving myself completely to someone so I'm thankful for that. Now I get to find a man who will love and give himself completely but only to me. Not someone I have to share.

YES. And if you use HNT's third party reference...think about it for a minute. Your boyfriend/girlfriend/love interest is sleeping (amongst many, many other things) with their significant other...in what world should this we grit our teeth and accept this for ourselves?

There are great men out there for us. We just need to get out of this emotional quicksand first.

May 29, 2017

I'm hoping it, my story, will be up soon. I wrote four pages in Word to tell it if that tells you anything...

I do know I've found it very therapeutic to read a lot of these posts and see and know that I'm not the only one who has gone through things such as this.

May 29, 2017

YES. There are great men out there for us. We just need to get out of this emotional quicksand first.

EXACTLY. Resist the siren's song. Plug your ears with beeswax, tie yourself to the mast and keep the boat going straight.

She will run you into the rocks, don't fall for it.

http://hackthesystem.com/blog/odysseus-precommitment-and-the-siren-song/

Edited May 29, 2017 by HereNorThere

May 29, 2017

EXACTLY. Resist the siren's song. Plug your ears with beeswax, tie yourself to the mast and keep the boat going straight.

She will run you into the rocks, don't fall for it.

Odysseus, Precommitment, and the Siren Song

Funny, I was just thinking of the sirens story yesterday. In my case, the siren song comes through texts on my phone. Blocking is the beeswax.

May 29, 2017

You don't have to date a married person to meet a siren, trust me. I've fallen for the same trap you guys have with a perfectly single girl.

They lure you in with their stories of unhappiness and mistreatment. Then they introduce some kind of obstacle that can be overcome and finally you two can ride off into the sunset. It's a very familiar feeling, like you're the first person who gets them and they're the first person who ever gets you. Suddenly you fall intoxicated, almost manic with the fantasies, jealousy, whatever. What you don't realize is that behind the scenes, the other person is mimicking you. Your frame is stronger than theirs and they start mirroring it back to you. They're chameleons, wolves in sheep's clothing, whatever. Do they realize they're doing it? Probably not but it's irrelevant. A person with that weak of a "self" will eventually betray you. It's lots of fun having a robot until someone else starts programming your robot.

Part of the hook is the obstacle. Whether they're with someone else, depressed, emotionally unavailable, etc. In a normal relationship, if things are going south, you just call it incompatibly and move on. In these, there's a constant push pull, because you falsely believe there's some sort of problem you can solve.

May 30, 2017

Today started as a rough day. I woke up feeling sad and needy but thanks to HereNorThere's posts, I powered through! Spent the day with family and my pups and enjoyed my day. Then, it almost came crashing down...

A YouTube message from MM linking back to some sappy "can't stop thinking about you/I want you so much" songs. I listened to the songs and got a little sentimental then I got MAD! After all this effing BS he's pulled the last few weeks, does he really think some damn SONGS are going to work? I mean at least write me an effing song. Come to my home and serenade me from outside my window! Do some work. Show some effort. That's just lazy. Sending damn links. Idiot.

I didn't respond and I have no desire to respond. I'm legitimately mad. D1ck.

May 30, 2017

You've open my eyes and expanded my capacity for empathy. Please, try your hardest to extend the same open mindedness to me.

I am not saying that what you and OM had wasn't real. I am not diminishing your connection, the time spent, your feelings, his feelings or the fact there was genuine love there. I've been there and it's I know it's real or at least as real as anything we perceive being humans with human emotion.

Lostgirl, I'm telling you this from the bottom of my heart and you will never convince me otherwise. Your fOM is a covert narcissist. Are you familiar with the term? Nearly every single thing you've written about him fits the definition.

Covert narcissism is different than what we think of when the word narcissist gets thrown around. We think Trump, Kim and Kanye, you know, the usual suspects. The covert narcissist outward displays and even believes they have your best interests in mind. They will tell you exactly what you want to hear, project kindness, altruism, and genuine, even sincere care about your feelings.

The problem is that their outward emotional projection doesn't line up with their actions. No matter what you think or how you feel, at nearly every point throughout your thread, when he had the chance to protect you and your feelings, he chose his own needs over yours. That's the narcissism. That he thinks his hurt is sooooo special. Guess what, it's not. It's mostly self inflicted and he needs to quit twisting the knife. He knows he's hurting other people and still continues. He knew he put you in the hospital, still continued to contact. He knew he made you sacrifice your integrity in front of your parents, still continued to contact you. And with how open ended you've left things, he will continue to contact you, no.freakin.doubt. Lostgirl, someone who really loves you doesn't put you in this position. He may love you but it's definitely not enough. It's definitely not more than himself.

I promise you, you are still on the hook. The dopamine-serotonin-oxytocin-vasopressin neurotransmitter cocktail takes a lot longer than this to wear off. You don't realize it because the very thing you use to detect this type of thing is what's affected. Just because your antivirus alert isn't detecting it doesn't mean you're not hacked. Listen to your thread posters, we know what's up. We're not on hook the with this jerk.

You need to detox so you can see things clearly. Please tie yourself to the mast and give him NO WAY POSSIBLE to contact you. I know you don't want to change your number or email address, trust me, I get it. Tough, you're smart, figure it out. No more breadcrumbs from this a$shole. You can turn off the ability to receive calls any unknown numbers and things like that. You could port your current number to Google Voice and let you Mom or trusted friend set the password to it so they have to be with you to check it. Send his known addresses straight to spam. Hell, at this point just tell him that you'll forward each email he sends to his wife. You have to dead this relationship by any means necessary.

You aren't out of the woods. Not even close. We'll be able to tell once you start gaining your objectivity back. For know, you need some barriers, real barriers. And you need to give up your loyalty to this guy and see him for who he truly is. I promise, there will be a day you look back and think "damn, that cat on the Internet was so right." You are worth more than this. Do not accept his meager offering of a life filled with sadness and betrayal.

Edited May 30, 2017 by HereNorThere

May 30, 2017

You've open my eyes and expanded my capacity for empathy. Please, try your hardest to extend the same open mindedness to me.

I am not saying that what you and OM had wasn't real. I am not diminishing your connection, the time spent, your feelings, his feelings or the fact there was genuine love there. I've been there and it's I know it's real or at least as real as anything we perceive being humans with human emotion.

Lostgirl, I'm telling you this from the bottom of my heart and you will never convince me otherwise. Your fOM is a covert narcissist. Are you familiar with the term? Nearly every single thing you've written about him fits the definition.

Covert narcissism is different than what we think of when the word narcissist gets thrown around. We think Trump, Kim and Kanye, you know, the usual suspects. The covert narcissist outward displays and even believes they have your best interests in mind. They will tell you exactly what you want to hear, project kindness, altruism, and genuine, even sincere care about your feelings.

The problem is that their outward emotional projection doesn't line up with their actions. No matter what you think or how you feel, at nearly every point throughout your thread, when he had the chance to protect you and your feelings, he chose his own needs over yours. That's the narcissism. That he thinks his hurt is sooooo special. Guess what, it's not. It's mostly self inflicted and he needs to quit twisting the knife. He knows he's hurting other people and still continues. He knew he put you in the hospital, still continued to contact. He knew he made you sacrifice your integrity in front of your parents, still continued to contact you. And with how open ended you've left things, he will continue to contact you, no.freakin.doubt. Lostgirl, someone who really loves you doesn't put you in this position. He may love you but it's definitely not enough. It's definitely not more than himself.

I promise you, you are still on the hook. The dopamine-serotonin-oxytocin-vasopressin neurotransmitter cocktail takes a lot longer than this to wear off. You don't realize it because the very thing you use to detect this type of thing is what's affected. Just because your antivirus alert isn't detecting it doesn't mean you're not hacked. Listen to your thread posters, we know what's up. We're not on hook the with this jerk.

You need to detox so you can see things clearly. Please tie yourself to the mast and give him NO WAY POSSIBLE to contact you. I know you don't want to change your number or email address, trust me, I get it. Tough, you're smart, figure it out. No more breadcrumbs from this a$shole. You can turn off the ability to receive calls any unknown numbers and things like that. You could port your current number to Google Voice and let you Mom or trusted friend set the password to it so they have to be with you to check it. Send his known addresses straight to spam. Hell, at this point just tell him that you'll forward each email he sends to his wife. You have to dead this relationship by any means necessary.

You aren't out of the woods. Not even close. We'll be able to tell once you start gaining your objectivity back. For know, you need some barriers, real barriers. And you need to give up your loyalty to this guy and see him for who he truly is. I promise, there will be a day you look back and think "damn, that cat on the Internet was so right." You are worth more than this. Do not accept his meager offering of a life filled with sadness and betrayal.

Yeah I've noticed some things about him that made me consider he has some narcissistic traits. He always tries to act like he's being logical and cares so much to do the right thing and always considers other people before himself. However if that were the case, this situation wouldn't have gotten as far as it did. That's not to say I'm blameless but I've never tried to pretend that my concern is doing the right thing or putting others before me lol. I'll admit I was straight up selfish and was only concerned with what would make me happy. I didn't pay any mind to his wife. I don't mean that to sound like I'm heartless and didn't care about her or her feelings- I just didn't think about her. Not until this all blew up and I realized how hurt she was and how awful she must have felt knowing he was continuing to contact me.

I was under the impression that you can't prevent blocked or unknown numbers? I contacted my carrier and they said I couldn't.

I did try the "leave me alone or I'm telling your wife" thing. That's how the most recent drama happened. He's actually stayed away after that other than these video links.

I'm not trying to act like I'm out of the woods. It's only the beginning. I'm not accepting anything from him. I didn't respond and don't want to respond. He hasn't tried to call so I'm hoping he doesn't. But if he does I am pretty confident that I can ignore that "no caller id" call. It's all I can do right now. Read and reread the posts on here whenever I'm feeling weak and focus on me.

Edited May 30, 2017 by lostgirl87

May 30, 2017

Under settings - messages - turn on "filter unknown senders." Then don't look in the unknown senders list later, lol. Hey, it's better than nothing. You can also enable settings - Do not disturb - thrown all your contacts into the favorites, and only allow favorites.

You have to want this. Get creative.

May 30, 2017

I don't think you're evil or anything like that. I do think you've temporarily suspended some of your empathy because you've been on the roller coaster. I do think think it will come back once you detox.

I also think you're engaging in a form of ego-preservation. Like, you know how you're supposed to feel, but you aren't really feeling it. I mean, that's somewhat understandable. Whether you realize it or not, this jerk stole a lot more of your self worth than you're giving him credit for. I'm not going to kick you when you're down, but you have definitely dissociated with some of your normal, rational self. Please, take my word for it and fight to get YOU back. You're better than this and you know it.

I think if anything, your writing has been more positive and upbeat lately. There's still a lot to deal with but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Just make escaping him and real NC a real priority. You have to get his boot off of your neck before you can make progress and grow.

P.S. - If he's calling from unknown numbers, save that unknown number entry from your recents callers as a contact. Then block that contact. I think that would work?

Edited May 30, 2017 by HereNorThere

May 30, 2017

I don't think you're evil or anything like that. I do think you've temporarily suspended some of your empathy because you've been on the roller coaster. I do think think it will come back once you detox.

I also think you're engaging in a form of ego-preservation. Like, you know how you're supposed to feel, but you aren't really feeling it. I mean, that's somewhat understandable. Whether you realize it or not, this jerk stole a lot more of your self worth than you're giving him credit for. I'm not going to kick you when you're down, but you have definitely dissociated with some of your normal, rational self. Please, take my word for it and fight to get YOU back. You're better than this and you know it.

I think if anything, your writing has been more positive and upbeat lately. There's still a lot to deal with but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Just make escaping him and real NC a real priority. You have to get his boot off of your neck before you can make progress and grow.

P.S. - If he's calling from unknown numbers, save that unknown number entry from your recents callers as a contact. Then block that contact. I think that would work?

Ah yeah I've done all that on the phone lol. I thought you meant there was a way to actually block private calls from coming in at all. He usually calls from completely private numbers so there's no way to add and block those. He hasn't called thoigh so it's all good.

I never imagined a man, especially a married man, would have flipped my world like this and caused me to go against everything I believe in and everything I've wanted for myself. It's almost scary!

May 30, 2017

Ah yeah I've done all that on the phone lol. I thought you meant there was a way to actually block private calls from coming in at all. He usually calls from completely private numbers so there's no way to add and block those. He hasn't called thoigh so it's all good.

I never imagined a man, especially a married man, would have flipped my world like this and caused me to go against everything I believe in and everything I've wanted for myself. It's almost scary!

Yup, it's amazing how fast we can fall down the rabbit hole. Been there, done that. That's why we have to be very selective about who we let in.

See, this is what I want to hear. That's the sound of you leaving the fog. I know for a fact that you didn't go to law school thinking "One day I want to be some married flunky's sidechick in a crazy Jerry Springeresque relationship." (Did I just make a new word?) You got caught up. Seriously, don't be too hard on yourself. This happens to everyone at some point. Maybe not with a married person, but like I said previously, a person doesn't have to be married to be poison.

You are at 0 days of no contact, remember that. What's it gonna take to get you to 5, 15, 30, 90 days? If he successfully contacts you, that's a reset. The ego kibbles will keep you on the hook. The fastest way to detox is complete NC and good a distraction.

Stay strong and be kind to yourself. There's plenty of time in the future to reflect on what's happened here. Right now is simply not the time to ruminate on it.

Here's some ideas on blocking unknown contacts. Maybe one of them will work for you. How to Block Unknown Callers on iPhone & iPad It looks like from the instructions and comment section that if you actually copy and paste the words unknown contact into a contact, you can block it. I'll try messing it with it here in a bit when I get a free moment. Ugh, overslept and now I'm behind at work. However, it is SUCH a beautiful day here in Denver, OMG. Sending hugs your way.

June 1, 2017

How are you today lostgirl.... i've been following your thread and am thinking about you. it is such a hard time...

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definitely over with MM [UPDATED: Just Friends?? Or impossible?]

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