Where should we be by now?

[DKT3]

I think if he is misleading me it's BECAUSE he is lying to himself. Based on what I know about you, DKT, you and my H are very different people. I don't mean that in a good or bad way. He has never been the stoic type or been good at hiding his emotions; he wears everything on his sleeve. I just know my H pretty well and am quite sure he is not calm and cool and leading me on, while planning his escape behind the scenes.

 

I wasn't stoic either, that is my dad who is a retired homicide detective in LA. I made a decision along time ago as a preteen to be more emotional then he was. Then boom i am my father.

 

Southern, the mistakes you are making are two told. 1) you don't seem to grasp that he isn't nor will he ever be who he was before. That guy is gone. 2) you really seem to have a ok get over it attitude.

 

Have to commute home back later......

[Southern Sun]

So...can someone with direct experience paint me a picture of what a truly remorseful wife who is still in love with her husband looks like in reconciliation?

 

I am not being ironic or sarcastic. I would like to know, for my sake and my husband's. I need a reality check.

[road]

So...can someone with direct experience paint me a picture of what a truly remorseful wife who is still in love with her husband looks like in reconciliation?

 

I am not being ironic or sarcastic. I would like to know, for my sake and my husband's. I need a reality check.

 

Tell your BH that you are willing to do all of this to recover.

 

 

No trickle truth

No lying

No Contact and provide BH with the means to verify NC

No longer keep people in your life that knew about the affair

at that time.

Open phone, and all online accounts.

Shut down every way for the OM to being to try to break NC, so

new phone number, email, close F book, etc.

Never refuse to talk about the affair or answer any of BH's questions

about the affair.

 

 

Tell BH that recovery will take a long time but if he wants to recover

then he must stop drinking and stop the out bursts in front of the kids.

 

 

Then you must do 15 hours a week of quality us alone time doing

fun activities AKA dates. Can not recover without romantic re-connecting.

 

 

So which have you done and have not done?

[DKT3]

So...can someone with direct experience paint me a picture of what a truly remorseful wife who is still in love with her husband looks like in reconciliation?

 

I am not being ironic or sarcastic. I would like to know, for my sake and my husband's. I need a reality check.

 

Ok, you know how you feel, no one here can truly argue that or tell you what you feel. I'm mainly giving you insight into what your​ husband is likely going through.

 

You seem to think he is being open honest and vulnerable to/with you. He isn't, thus the excessive drinking. IC MC require vulnerability.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Ss... remorse is an action ... and you aren't ready for that yet ... you can't even begin to grasp it

 

You are still in your own pain... and you can't understand his as long as you are still concentrating on yours.

 

But let's back up ok?

 

Let's get back to you and what you are feeling. You are terribly confused... you are frightened and you are hurt. Sort yourself out... you say he won't go for help... ok ... but you can... you need to be the best you you can be in order to hel him.

 

Did you read ... really absorb ... the Linda Macdonald book?

 

Did you think about it and apply it to yourself?

 

Honestly... it is a step by step book to help you fix you.

 

You say you have let yourself go ... you have given up.

 

Get yourself back together. Fix your hair .. do your makeup... clean your house... make your husband dinner. Show him that you love him. Be kind and compassionate and understanding. Tell him you want him and you love him and you are proud of him and you value him,

 

He cannot hear it enough right now. He is broken...

 

And if you can help him be more positive... you help yourself in the process

 

You are religious... pray sweetie pray

 

Read your bible

 

Do you have anyone you can confide in? A friend? Your mom... a sister?

 

Forums are good for venting... but people sometimes misunderstand and become judgemental.

 

I know you are trying.. really I do

 

And this is so very hard

 

You can do this... but this will be the hardest thing you have ever done.

[bigman1]

Southern,

 

Someone else's story is not your story, so if you are looking for hope in someone else's success...Stop. You are on your own crazy wild ride. It is the same for everyone...the crazy wild ride part.

 

I think that your husband hates dealing with his feelings when they make him feel bad. Anger is not seen as weakness to some. Being hurt and feeling emasculated are just blows to the foundation. It is easier to escape than to deal with that.

 

He can be angry with you, but has he told you that he hates you? See, that is a real feeling that he has, but it is inconsistent with what he knows. He knows stability and love for you, but not hate. yet he feels that.

 

He knew stability and predictability. You were cheating that whole time. His stability and predictability and his ability to gauge those things have been shown to be non-existent. You were cheating and he was oblivious. He can't trust himself because he thought things were fine. That is scary...no, terrifying. He has to drink more to calm down.

 

Drinking is a family way to cope. it is a learned behavior. He's gotta deal with that.

 

Emotions that overwhelm and challenge his sense of stability totally throw off his ability to process stuff. When He tells you that things are fine, that is him disassociating from the situation and treating it like someone else's problem, namely yours. He will re-assure you, not because it is true, but because he can stop focusing on himself and focus on "your problem".

 

Alcohol also lowers inhibitions, so his anger that comes out, comes out because he is not as tightly wrapped as he tries to be otherwise. He can blame it on the alcohol and not "the real him".

 

You guys have a lot of problems. I mean a lot. You are also not being fair. You are letting everyone else tell you what action to take so that you can sit here and play the victim. Your church teaches xyz, so you are stuck there. He does not want you to get the help you need, so you are stuck there. It is all so unfair since you love him and want to work it out. Sadly, that is just not honest.

 

I know churches and counseling like you would not believe. I also know acquiesced helplessness, too. Here is the thing, and follow me, even if you disagree:

 

1. If your kid needed medical attention to save their life and your husband or church said don't do it, let's pray, what would you do? Hopefully, you'd say "screw that" and get the help. Well, in this case, your marriage is your kid. It's dying. What are you going to do.

 

2. You need counseling. He says "no, I don't like it and it hurts me". Well, screwing some dude and lying to your husband was something that you had no problem doing and that was bad. You get counseling from a qualified counselor and that is gonna help. His solution is not a solution. Get you a counselor ASAP. IC and MC. he can come or not.

 

3. He is drinking and not facing reality. Well, reality is happening. You would not let him drive in his condition. You would not let him drive you or your kids in that condition. Well, why let him drive how things move now?

 

4. Working towards the healing that you all need is not something that he is capable of doing. He's totally screwed up right now. He's a drowning man and you pushed him. Time to put on your big girl pants, and steer this shipwreck back to shore. It may not make it, but right now, it is never going to make it.

Edited March 14, 2017 by bigman1

[Maddieandtae]

Southern Sun reading through all the posts to you is a very hard read. While some of the posts offer thoughtful and reality based advice on that particular posters experience there are others that I feel to harmful to your emotional health.

 

I understand that your husband does not want you to seek therapy and I also understand that you need a place to express yourself and learn how to contribute to your husbands healing. With that being said I don't think this forum at this stage is going to help you positively. You are both so fresh in your pain and fog.

 

Individual counselling is what saved my life. I could never had survived posting on a forum in the state I was in. My mind was broken, my life was broken.

 

Somehow you need to find the way for your husband to see that healing needs to start somewhere. Even if it's a women's group or a crisis line you need to gain the strength to stand up to your husband in order to stand together.

 

I was part of another forum years ago and I found the advice of one posters thoughts on males and females engaging with each other on the forum in the early stages of recovery very practical. The suggestion was not to because what lead you to affair could easily happen again online. It takes a lot of time to relearn how to engage with the opposite sex without crossing boundaries. Just something to think about.

[Southern Sun]

Tell your BH that you are willing to do all of this to recover.

 

 

No trickle truth

No lying

No Contact and provide BH with the means to verify NC

No longer keep people in your life that knew about the affair

at that time.

Open phone, and all online accounts.

Shut down every way for the OM to being to try to break NC, so

new phone number, email, close F book, etc.

Never refuse to talk about the affair or answer any of BH's questions

about the affair.

 

 

Tell BH that recovery will take a long time but if he wants to recover

then he must stop drinking and stop the out bursts in front of the kids.

 

 

Then you must do 15 hours a week of quality us alone time doing

fun activities AKA dates. Can not recover without romantic re-connecting.

 

 

So which have you done and have not done?

 

No TT; my BH knows everything. No lying either, at least not from my side. I've not had contact for nearly a year. BH has all of my passwords and if anything can be totally open, it is. AP is blocked everywhere possible. I did shut down my social media for a while after the first D-Day, as well as get a new phone number. But BH saw that that doesn't really do anything when a person wants to have an affair. So it felt like fruitless measures. If he wants to talk about it, I do.

 

The drinking...I guess I will need to address it with him in a more serious way. We've discussed it and he even will say he has a problem, but he just continues doing it.

 

I don't think we are getting 15 hours a week in. It depends on what types of things qualify. We do stuff with friends. Does that count? We are together most evenings. It's not very romantic. Hmmm.

[Southern Sun]

Ss... remorse is an action ... and you aren't ready for that yet ... you can't even begin to grasp it

 

You are still in your own pain... and you can't understand his as long as you are still concentrating on yours.

 

But let's back up ok?

 

Let's get back to you and what you are feeling. You are terribly confused... you are frightened and you are hurt. Sort yourself out... you say he won't go for help... ok ... but you can... you need to be the best you you can be in order to hel him.

 

Did you read ... really absorb ... the Linda Macdonald book?

 

Did you think about it and apply it to yourself?

 

Honestly... it is a step by step book to help you fix you.

 

You say you have let yourself go ... you have given up.

 

Get yourself back together. Fix your hair .. do your makeup... clean your house... make your husband dinner. Show him that you love him. Be kind and compassionate and understanding. Tell him you want him and you love him and you are proud of him and you value him,

 

He cannot hear it enough right now. He is broken...

 

And if you can help him be more positive... you help yourself in the process

 

You are religious... pray sweetie pray

 

Read your bible

 

Do you have anyone you can confide in? A friend? Your mom... a sister?

 

Forums are good for venting... but people sometimes misunderstand and become judgemental.

 

I know you are trying.. really I do

 

And this is so very hard

 

You can do this... but this will be the hardest thing you have ever done.

 

Thank you for your compassion.

 

I remember in the Linda McDonald book reading about the "nuclear option," which would be letting the affair break up your family, I think. I should go back and read it again. I know it gave specific things to do to help your spouse. I am wondering why I feel so dead inside, why I can't muster the energy to do what I should to fix my marriage. I'm not exactly sure what would save it. I'm here and I'm trying to prove that I'm safe and I'm taking care of our home and children. But my H and I both know something isn't right. Would he feel better if I just had sex with him every day for the next 6 months? Is that what would do it?

 

I did exactly what you said tonight, and I hadn't even read your post. I made dinner for the family, I made sure I was showered and dressed and presentable. But my emotions are flat. I've been told, "Fake it til you make it." Is that a real thing? After all this?

 

I keep wondering if this is just depression. Maybe it's normal after such a life-changing event, and my daily situation being so different. But why can't I feel different? Could the depression affect my feelings about my marriage? I actually feel like I am doing what I can to just hang on until I feel like myself again, and *then* I will be able to take better care of my M. That's one of the main thoughts in my mind.

 

I need to make some changes. Maybe I should just push through it and BE that person and those feelings will all come eventually. That's why I asked, what does a truly remorseful wife look like. Because I feel like something is wrong with me. That's what I feel like.

[Marc878]

No TT; my BH knows everything. No lying either, at least not from my side. I've not had contact for nearly a year. BH has all of my passwords and if anything can be totally open, it is. AP is blocked everywhere possible. I did shut down my social media for a while after the first D-Day, as well as get a new phone number. But BH saw that that doesn't really do anything when a person wants to have an affair. So it felt like fruitless measures. If he wants to talk about it, I do.

 

The drinking...I guess I will need to address it with him in a more serious way. We've discussed it and he even will say he has a problem, but he just continues doing it.

 

I don't think we are getting 15 hours a week in. It depends on what types of things qualify. We do stuff with friends. Does that count? We are together most evenings. It's not very romantic. Hmmm.

 

It's important to have fun. Dinner and a movie, etc. doesn't have to be much. Fun stuff. The good memories can out way the bad. Start making some. You'll be surprised at how much this helps. Alone time just him and you.

 

Very important. Start!

[Southern Sun]

bigman1, I am taking in what you said and trying not to dismiss the things I knee-jerk disagree with. I don't *think* I'm playing the victim. That's not really how I feel. I genuinely feel pretty damn stuck and confused. That is probably an issue partially of my own making, and if I was psychologically healthier and had better boundaries, I doubt I would feel as foggy. Maybe there is some learned helplessness there, but if someone is experiencing that phenomenon, it is usually because they actually have been a real victim at some point. It is not something to make light of.

 

All the things you mentioned about what my H will and won't do, what my church does and doesn't allow - they are true. If you think that doesn't deeply affect me, you are misguided.

 

Yes, I did manage to have an affair when it would be VERY against their doctrine and my husband's wishes. But of course...I never intended to flaunt it to any of them. I'm not saying it's logical, but I'm sure it was my unconscious thought.

 

With that said...I am going to look into getting into IC, somehow. I need it.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Thank you for your compassion.

 

I remember in the Linda McDonald book reading about the "nuclear option," which would be letting the affair break up your family, I think. I should go back and read it again. I know it gave specific things to do to help your spouse. I am wondering why I feel so dead inside, why I can't muster the energy to do what I should to fix my marriage. I'm not exactly sure what would save it. I'm here and I'm trying to prove that I'm safe and I'm taking care of our home and children. But my H and I both know something isn't right. Would he feel better if I just had sex with him every day for the next 6 months? Is that what would do it?

 

I did exactly what you said tonight, and I hadn't even read your post. I made dinner for the family, I made sure I was showered and dressed and presentable. But my emotions are flat. I've been told, "Fake it til you make it." Is that a real thing? After all this?

 

I keep wondering if this is just depression. Maybe it's normal after such a life-changing event, and my daily situation being so different. But why can't I feel different? Could the depression affect my feelings about my marriage? I actually feel like I am doing what I can to just hang on until I feel like myself again, and *then* I will be able to take better care of my M. That's one of the main thoughts in my mind.

 

I need to make some changes. Maybe I should just push through it and BE that person and those feelings will all come eventually. That's why I asked, what does a truly remorseful wife look like. Because I feel like something is wrong with me. That's what I feel like.

 

You understand that it is ok to need help?

 

See a therapist ask for some anti depressants or maybe something to help you sleep....

 

You are under a great deal of stress ... it is ok to take something to help you stabilize... and the same goes for your husband. My husband did not drink.... but he was not sleeping... he was like a zombie. I literally put him in the car and took him to our doctor... and I told her what I had done...

 

She shunned me ... and then took great compassion on him and prescribed some medication. He only took it for a month... but it got him through.

 

Maybe you need something to get you through.

 

You will have to push through and make your household be as normal as possible. My children were little and they had no clue.... we both acted like things were normal. My husband still wanted me in every way... we never stopped having sex... but I was 28 so we both still very high sex drives.

 

Maybe you need to make the first move... maybe he is afraid to touch you.

 

Start with a hug or a kiss... but approach him... he may be waiting for you.

 

Use your gut reactions... just remember that you caused the damage and it will be up to you to fix it.

 

You must take on the heavy lifting in this relationship... and I know you are tired... but this is your fault.

 

Bear down and push through and fight for this... if this is what you want... then give it 110%

 

He worth fighting for?

 

Then prove it to him

[bigman1]

Like I said, I get that whole church dynamic. I did not suggest that it did not affect you. To the contrary. I am not misguided on that.

 

I am not sure about the flaunting it point you made. In my post, I was simply drawing a comparison. The point being If you did a bad thing that he did not like then you can do a good thing even if he does not like it. That good thing being counseling. That's all.

 

Good luck.

[Cephalopod]

You have to decide whether you love your husband or your church more.

 

You may need to betray your church to save your husband, and the only way to save him from himself is to let him hit rock bottom. You may need to be the bad guy and file for divorce. You may have to fall on the sword and accept the L brand on your chest, so that your husband will hit rock bottom and maybe start addressing his needs.

 

As long as your church elders and pastor are sticking their noses in this situation, you and your husband won't get better.

[Mr Blunt]

Southern Sun

Some of the advice that you have received from posters, including Mrs. John Adams and the Linda McDonald book, are right on target as to what YOU can do. Since that issue has been addressed many times I am going to address your husband’s issues.

 

Your husband has a load of baggage that is detriment to himself and helping with the R. Listed below are a few that you have mentioned:

 

 

1 He lies to himself about his feelings and pushes them down

 

 

2 "He is unwilling to do ANYTHING. He refuses both IC and MC. He refuses to let ME attend IC. He freaks out about me even reading a book on affair recovery."

 

 

3 "But we are missing one piece, and that is the sexual one. I don't know if that's kind of normal at this stage? If we can get it back? If it just got so damaged over time...his avoidance of his issues, and then my affair...that it is beyond repair?"

 

 

4 "He also hates himself for feeling like a helpless victim."

 

 

5 He is becoming even weaker with his alcohol drinking

 

To be blunt your husband needs to do his own heavy lifting and at this point he is failing bigtime! No, I am not blaming him for your affair but he has a part in R and that is what he says he wants. He probably needs someone other than you to confront him with stern diplomacy and challenge him to stop being a cop-out just because he is hurt.

 

Does he really want to get better? If he does then he needs to face the reality that he is going to have to take some hard actions. Is it fair that he has to face his short comings with your added damage that you did to him? NO, but life is not always fair and this is one of those times that doing what you have to do to get better is more important than fair. It is time for your husband to shyt or get off the pot!

 

 

IF no one will step up and face your husband with the hard facts then it maybe that it will take a crises. If he still does nothing then you better plan your life without him or be willing to endure what you are enduring at this time for many years and maybe for your whole life.

[Cephalopod]

Your brokenness and lack of boundaries is your responsibility to fix.

 

Your husband's alcoholism and codependency issues are his to fix, and if he does not want to fix them then this entire situation is un-fixable.

 

Then the question becomes, what is more important....trying to save a toxic, diseased marriage, or making a better, happier, safer future for the children?

 

Right now the children are getting the shaft in all this.

[aliveagain]

You can't help him if you don't help yourself first, get into counselling. Would you risk your family on a 1000 mile journey in winter conditions in a car you know has serious engine problems? No, you wouldn't you would have it checked out first to make sure it was mechanically sound. Your marriage is no different and the rest of your life is a long time, your both broken and your children are at risk. Control what you can control and that is you, if he wants you in his life he will follow your lead. Make the appointment.

[DKT3]

You can't help him if you don't help yourself first, get into counselling. Would you risk your family on a 1000 mile journey in winter conditions in a car you know has serious engine problems? No, you wouldn't you would have it checked out first to make sure it was mechanically sound. Your marriage is no different and the rest of your life is a long time, your both broken and your children are at risk. Control what you can control and that is you, if he wants you in his life he will follow your lead. Make the appointment.

 

I agree in theory, yet it's a bit simplistic. Her affair is emasculating, him not being able to walk away likely makes him feel weak now you throw her suggesting he needs therapy swings even farther towards him feeling weak. What one can take from that is she doesn't think I'm good enough now she wants me to get help to become her AP, to be good enough.

 

Yes she should absolutely seek help for herself, but at 10 months I'm not sure he is there, I'm needing to sure he has committed to being married any longer no matter what he is saying to her.

 

We tried MC before I was ready and it all sounded like BS, later that same information sounded more reasonable, and now they are words I live by. Timing is everything, it's why it's important she work on her boundaries and issues, at the same time being supportive of him and his need to feel safe and secure enough to be willing to works towards fixing anything.

 

I sense a great deal of impatients, it's like she needs to be validated in her efforts so far, and he just isn't there. She will need to sustain the effort until he is Willing to see and accept them as genuine, then her validation will come.

 

Recovery is a solo trip for the WS until the BS is on equal footing with emotions and desire. You simply can't drag a BS along at your pace.

[DKT3]

Southern, I'm also calling bunk on the church stuff. No church not lead by Warren Jeff's would accept the things you've done to damage your husband and family. Now you are attempting to hide behind rules and guidelines that you ignored as you maintained a long time of lies and deceit.

[Southern Sun]

Southern, I'm also calling bunk on the church stuff. No church not lead by Warren Jeff's would accept the things you've done to damage your husband and family. Now you are attempting to hide behind rules and guidelines that you ignored as you maintained a long time of lies and deceit.

 

What do you mean by this?

[Mrs. John Adams]

No church would approve of infidelity and heavy drinking and neither of you have had any trouble going against the church before so why be so "dedicated" at this point.

God says he helps those who help themselves...stop making excuses and feeling sorry for yourselves and actually "do " something

 

You take the first step.. when he sees your dedication to reconciliation instead of sitting around waiting for something to happen... he will follow

 

We made many mistakes... sitting around doing nothing was not one of them

 

We went to therapy... we went to church... we confided in others who helped us

 

We loved each other and we loved our kids

 

I told you ... this is hard work and not everybody is up for the challenge

 

How bad do you want this?

[Southern Sun]

Southern, I'm also calling bunk on the church stuff. No church not lead by Warren Jeff's would accept the things you've done to damage your husband and family. Now you are attempting to hide behind rules and guidelines that you ignored as you maintained a long time of lies and deceit.

 

I can't believe you would make a statement like that when you truly have no idea what you are talking about.

[DKT3]

I can't believe you would make a statement like that when you truly have no idea what you are talking about.

 

What I'm saying is, some members have made really good suggestion that you've rejected by stating the church wouldn't approve....But they approved of the affair?

[Southern Sun]

What I'm saying is, some members have made really good suggestion that you've rejected by stating the church wouldn't approve....But they approved of the affair?

 

Ummm, no. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. They know about it and my consequences have been dealt. It completely changed how I live my life. I feel it is TMI to say on this forum.

[DKT3]

Ummm, no. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. They know about it and my consequences have been dealt. It completely changed how I live my life. I feel it is TMI to say on this forum.

 

Missing my point, but I'm upsetting you so I'm out...