Dating out of your league

[CaliforniaGirl]

Negging is one of pua routines, heard of it yes. But if i had to make a wild guess i'd say this guy is actually emotionally abusive.

 

Yes, but I don't think the two have to be mutually exclusive. In addition, he may have been attempting to throw the "dom" thing out there but doing it badly (IMO).

 

So there could have been a few factors, but yes, this was definite negging, and inexpert negging at that. I mean any drunk social misfit college kid could have done better. He went way, way overboard and lacked subtlety, he repeated himself on the points that showed serious sour grape-ism...he just wasn't good at it.

 

His language, if that was a cut-and-paste, does seem like it contains a pretty good deal of suppressed anger and general dislike (and disrespect), so yeah, that's a warning sign, or potentially, but the OP doesn't need to worry about that, because if she has a brain in her head she's moving on from this guy who doesn't really have much to offer. He apparently isn't physically attractive, he's too old, he isn't suave, he has a mean streak and he doesn't seem to know how to command a conversation in dom style (which isn't all about just yanking a woman around or something...maybe he's new to all this?) so what's to like? He's no longer OP's concern.

[preraph]

This may be true, at least for some men, but if a actual "Top Man" as you say doesn't have to put out his claws and attempt to tear a woman down and instill fear in her ("OMG I'm NEVER going to find anybody, PLUS I'm apparently not cute!") in order to get her to sleep with him. A real Top Dog will have the women fighting over him. Yes, even online.

 

This guy was at the ready with his manipulative, and transparent, Roosh-style speech so he has obviously been down this road before: he's not a very attractive guy so he has to play games, harsh ones, in order to ever get laid at all.

 

The OP is wise for so many reasons to move on.

 

I agree with this 100%. I knew a real "Top Man" for decades, and he tried harder than any other guy I know not to hurt women. Even if he didn't want to keep you forever, he left you feeling good somehow.

[angel.eyes]

My comment about your self-worth had nothing to do with your size. An old guy that you deemed unworthy approaches you, and you reject him. He turns around after he's tried unsuccessfully to get you to date him, and tells you you're not worthy and other guys won't like you. Rather than laugh at his pathetic attempt to manipulate you into changing your mind, you buy into his crap???

 

No person who was secure about their worth would fall for his manipulative drivel. The fact that you did led many of us to believe your belief in yourself was pretty limited and your sense of self-worth was fragile.

 

As for the whole size thing, everyone has their own self-perception. There are emaciated anorexics out there who firmly believe themselves to be chubby. Self-image and reality aren't always connected.

 

Here is Cindy Crawford, a US Size 6 during her modelling days: Cindy Crawford | Size 6

 

Sorry, but for most people, one size up from that, can't get you to chubby unless you are extremely short.

[redheaded-squirrel]

to "jay1983": I clearly wrote down what type of person I am and what kind of personality I have. On top of that, I was pretty clear in my profile about the qualities I wanted my dom to have - that is something you don't find at BDSM sites very often.

 

It didn't help anyway. It seems that 90% of the men/doms I attracted with all this were still either creeps, married, total douchebags or fools that didn't even bother to read my profile. It was really a very disappointing experience...I clearly stated that I was looking for a dom in certain age range and location, yet I'd still get dozens of messages from those that didn't meet either of the requirements. I sincerely doubt the literacy level of some men now.

[preraph]

What you are experiencing about guys not caring about what you want in your profile is fairly standard, unfortunately. When I moderated a childfree board, there were constant complaints that when these people wrote on there that they don't want to date anyone who wants kids or HAS kids, it was totally ignored. They're just looking at your photo and some just don't care what you want and are just trying to think of a way to get in your pants and that is all.

[redheaded-squirrel]

What you are experiencing about guys not caring about what you want in your profile is fairly standard, unfortunately. When I moderated a childfree board, there were constant complaints that when these people wrote on there that they don't want to date anyone who wants kids or HAS kids, it was totally ignored. They're just looking at your photo and some just don't care what you want and are just trying to think of a way to get in your pants and that is all.

 

That's why I quit online dating after 3 months. It just became a chore - all I did was just sorting through dozens of messages from men that clearly didn't respect my wishes. And after I had three unsuccessful dates with three different men and the last one almost tried to rape me, I realized this wasn't the way to go.

 

I know that this is no longer linked to my original post, but I feel like I've run out of dating options, really. I tried the "don't chase it, love will find you" approach - nothing. I tried looking at school, at work (options severely limited due to small office), then online dating which turned out to be a disaster...so I am 23 now with no serious relationship experience and I am starting to feel weird. I just believe there must be something wrong with me if I am unable to form a meaningful relationship by 25. And no, I don't believe the lie that 30 is the new 20 and that I have tons of time. At one point, I actually really wished to be married by 25, which obviously now ain't gonna happen. Now I all can do is to try and hide my desperation, so that I don't ruin my chances with everyone.

[angel.eyes]

Not all OLD sites are created equal. The one you tried didn't work. So try others. Have friends and others in your social circle set you up. Pursue your hobbies and interests. There are many ways to meet dateable guys. You just have to be open, flexible, and creative about putting yourself out there where the right types of single men are.

[d0nnivain]

That's why I quit online dating after 3 months. It just became a chore - all I did was just sorting through dozens of messages from men that clearly didn't respect my wishes. And after I had three unsuccessful dates with three different men and the last one almost tried to rape me, I realized this wasn't the way to go.

 

I know that this is no longer linked to my original post, but I feel like I've run out of dating options, really. I tried the "don't chase it, love will find you" approach - nothing. I tried looking at school, at work (options severely limited due to small office), then online dating which turned out to be a disaster...so I am 23 now with no serious relationship experience and I am starting to feel weird. I just believe there must be something wrong with me if I am unable to form a meaningful relationship by 25. And no, I don't believe the lie that 30 is the new 20 and that I have tons of time. At one point, I actually really wished to be married by 25, which obviously now ain't gonna happen. Now I all can do is to try and hide my desperation, so that I don't ruin my chances with everyone.

 

 

You will find somebody. I am a firm believer that there is a lid for every pot.

 

 

So far you have tried school, work & OLD. That isn't all there is. Try the following too:

 

 

1. tell friends & family you are open to being set up

 

 

2. make a plan to do something at least once per week to meet new people

 

 

3. attend singles events; not the meat market ones, the niche ones. I did one called Leashes & Lovers because I could bring my dog (I suppose they might have one more geared toward the BDSM thing, lol). I went to a group that played board games; a very low pressure way to meet people. I was going to join one that matched you with somebody to play golf because I figured I could at least enjoy the round. I promise if you look you will find a singles group geared toward something that interests you. There are wine & beer tasting ones, hiking groups; ones that watch movies: my friend met her husband through a ski club

 

4. Volunteer somewhere doing something you are passionate about. You will meet like minded people.

 

 

5. Go to business / work events like networking meetings & business card exchanges. Get involved with the Chamber of Commerce. Go to continuing education events about your industry

 

 

6. Join a co-ed sports team

 

 

7. join a civic organization

 

 

8. look around at who you see everyday -- where you get your coffee or eat lunch

[todreaminblue]

^ I disagree. I think many men want a woman who is smart and who share similar values and interests. Not just someone who is pretty. Pretty gets you only so far.

 

you are more likely to have more positive outcomes in online dating the more attractive you are.....male or female.......that's just fact...guys at a dating function see two women.......one woman a plain jane carrying a fair bit of extra weight with an iq of 175 who if he got to know her,shares many of the same interests and values but she is sitting down unsure of herself she smiles too but hers is shy..............the other woman a stunning beauty with a friendly smile loving the limelight..........has a couple of guys around a few circling waiting ......for the others to leave....who gets the attention......who draws the guys......has nothing to do with intelligence ...to a certain degree its looks first then confidence...approachability

 

she said she was getting creeps etc read her profile ......creeps read profiles so they get a handle on their prey......

 

had a guy contact me tell me how beautiful i was etc ...noticed some inconsistencies talking to him felt off...told him no ...he then set out to tell me fat ugly women like me should feel lucky to have attention from men like him.....he only felt sorry for me in the first place that is why he thought he would give me a go.....said i would never meet anyone.....then continued to harass me on a regular basis.....so the guy i had actually chosen to date told him to step off .....leave me alone....

 

 

wrong types of online guys will also choose women they deem perfect targets.....i am one..because i do have insecurities.......they dont choose me for any other reason than they think i am a weaker less confident option.... they actually underestimate my intelligence to see through what they do......because they dont care about my intelligence...like most online guys will look at the picture first...and not read the spiel.........

 

i do believe however the right kind of guys particularly will care for what you said intelligence and values...interests............but they are not the majority far from it....especially online......deb

[Leigh 87]

I am no "top model" and I have always had plenty of options. I am also a US 8 ish with a large bottom and overly curvy legs.

 

There are men who will find you instantly gorgeous. It's calles chemistry. And not all of them will be dim. Some will match your level of smarts.

[startingagain15]

Um size 8 is not chubby. I'm a size 6/8 and my BF and plenty of others think I'm pretty damn sexy. Not all men want a skinny waif, in fact I think most prefer some curves. So I have to say I think that's just an excuse you are using.

 

I think you're looking for excuses and putting yourself into a box. Gain some confidence in who you are and that will make you much more desirable. You are still young and figuring out who you are, don't be so down on yourself.

[Gr8fuln2020]

I know, I know - some of you might never believe in "leagues". But I had an interesting online conversation with an older man and he pointed out a problem that I (and other women) may face. I think it makes sense, but I'd like to hear more opinions and whether you think it holds true at all.

 

He contacted me on a "specific" dating site (for the BDSM community). I replied that after reading his profile, I didn't think we were compatible, to which he said "I don't want to scare you, but you are a very intelligent and a rather special woman (at least on the inside), so it would be very hard to find someone who is meant for you.

 

Then an interesting conversation ensued where I asked what should I do, if on top of this, I am not as "special" on the outside. I am no topmodel, dress conservative for my age and I am rather chubby (US size 8). He argued that "it isn't so easy on the marker with men, bcs the more intelligent the woman is (and you are, I won't lie to you), the higher are her expectations for a man. She won't let herself be manipulated or owned (in the BDSM sense) by a fool/a douchebag. And now we already are at the top of the pyramid of men; a lot of those intelligent and good ones are submissives, the dominants are usually married or if not, they are often emotionally/mentally not ok. You don't want that either.

 

The only help for you would be to offer on the outside (looks-wise) what you also offer on the inside (intelligence). If this isn't the case, then it's going to be very very complicated to find someone for you, because on the market, there are a few women who offer both and the top men rather choose them. Such a special man you seek would logically look for an "all in one" woman, an intelligent topmodel. If you are like that, then great. If not, the top men will not want you and you will search in that group in vain for years.

 

Think like the top man - he wants a woman that others lust after and is "valuable" and belongs to him, not a sub who nobody else wants. So your only help is to work on what you have to offer visually, so that it is on par with your intelligence."

 

Do you agree or disagree? Is this really the mechanics of the "men market"? If I understood it correctly, my only help would be to lose weight (and probably a few plastic surgeries). Rather grim future...

 

Not every man is looking for the top-model type. But, many are. I have a strong suspicion that people who know that they are attractive seek out other people also considered as attractive. Men are more interested in what you look like than what you have between your ears. Part of that is insecurity and lack of confidence. Women, well, I believe they are a little more forgiving in the looks area when searching for a mate.

 

I have seen plenty of women online who are looking for someone 6-inches taller or more and mention of intelligence, but suspect that given a great looking guy, they'll lower their IQ standards. Same with men.

 

There are those women, many of them, who are certainly more intelligent than the average woman, but lack in the physical attractiveness. Men are more likely to look for the complete package. You may be intelligent, but physical attraction is a must.

 

I am taking a break from dating, but when I get back in, I will likely contact the woman who 'appears' out of my league, but most certainly would not meet my needs, desires when it comes to finances, education and stability. I always go for the model-types knowing that my appearance would not meet their standards. But, there are always a few surprises. Not that I am bad looking, I have been told that I am very handsome, but in a more exotic sense. :-) I, of course, contact those not considered the model-type.

 

I don't know exactly what the guy is referring to as it pertains to you. I'd like to see a pic of you and match it up with your profile. I'd get a better sense of what dissonance he may have been referring to.

[curiouslysearching]

Every study shows that men on dating sites send 90% of messages to the women they rate 8 to 10. The #1 factor in landing a desirable man is looks. Intelligence and character are icing on the cake. Studies have also shown that most men don't care if a woman isn't smart or is even mentally ill, as long as she looks good.

 

To me, the last sentence is a "stretch" but I would agree with your

reply overall...

[CaliforniaGirl]

Every study shows that men on dating sites send 90% of messages to the women they rate 8 to 10. The #1 factor in landing a desirable man is looks. Intelligence and character are icing on the cake. Studies have also shown that most men don't care if a woman isn't smart or is even mentally ill, as long as she looks good.

 

So how is it then that so many, many average (very average) people hook up...date...marry...are loved?

 

As for the studies, sure, a guy can dream. Then he wakes up, realizes he hasn't had a date in two years and he starts approaching women he can actually get a date with. Studies are one thing. Real life, looking around you, seeing who actually is GETTING a date and has reasonable expectations, is another. A study can mean anything. A man might approach 20 "models" online, come up dry, then get a date with a pretty, fun woman more his speed.

[TunaInTheBrine]

I know, I know - some of you might never believe in "leagues". But I had an interesting online conversation with an older man and he pointed out a problem that I (and other women) may face. I think it makes sense, but I'd like to hear more opinions and whether you think it holds true at all.

 

He contacted me on a "specific" dating site (for the BDSM community). I replied that after reading his profile, I didn't think we were compatible, to which he said "I don't want to scare you, but you are a very intelligent and a rather special woman (at least on the inside), so it would be very hard to find someone who is meant for you.

 

Then an interesting conversation ensued where I asked what should I do, if on top of this, I am not as "special" on the outside. I am no topmodel, dress conservative for my age and I am rather chubby (US size 8). He argued that "it isn't so easy on the marker with men, bcs the more intelligent the woman is (and you are, I won't lie to you), the higher are her expectations for a man. She won't let herself be manipulated or owned (in the BDSM sense) by a fool/a douchebag. And now we already are at the top of the pyramid of men; a lot of those intelligent and good ones are submissives, the dominants are usually married or if not, they are often emotionally/mentally not ok. You don't want that either.

 

The only help for you would be to offer on the outside (looks-wise) what you also offer on the inside (intelligence). If this isn't the case, then it's going to be very very complicated to find someone for you, because on the market, there are a few women who offer both and the top men rather choose them. Such a special man you seek would logically look for an "all in one" woman, an intelligent topmodel. If you are like that, then great. If not, the top men will not want you and you will search in that group in vain for years.

 

Think like the top man - he wants a woman that others lust after and is "valuable" and belongs to him, not a sub who nobody else wants. So your only help is to work on what you have to offer visually, so that it is on par with your intelligence."

 

Do you agree or disagree? Is this really the mechanics of the "men market"? If I understood it correctly, my only help would be to lose weight (and probably a few plastic surgeries). Rather grim future...

 

This is too much analysis, even for me!

 

If you want to date 'out of your league' then you have to become the kind of person the people you want to date would typically want to date. Or to put it a better way, you should become the BEST version of you so that you can have the best chance of attracting the kind of people who you're meant to be with.

[Larryville]

If you want to date 'out of your league' then you have to become the kind of person the people you want to date would typically want to date. Or to put it a better way, you should become the BEST version of you so that you can have the best chance of attracting the kind of people who you're meant to be with.

 

This is so true.

 

People think that they can just troll around in wrinkled clothes, T-shirts, unshaven, bad BO and are entitled to have people accept them as they are.

If you lack charisma, communication skills, you have jacked up teeth, are overweight, no sense of style…

 

Even more if you are rude, are just stupid who wants that?

If you keep getting on here complaining about nobody is selecting you or not responding to you or if you are lucky enough to get a “first” date but not getting seconds… “become the BEST version of you”

[LookAtThisPOst]

I know, I know - some of you might never believe in "leagues". But I had an interesting online conversation with an older man and he pointed out a problem that I (and other women) may face. I think it makes sense, but I'd like to hear more opinions and whether you think it holds true at all.

 

He contacted me on a "specific" dating site (for the BDSM community). I replied that after reading his profile, I didn't think we were compatible, to which he said "I don't want to scare you, but you are a very intelligent and a rather special woman (at least on the inside), so it would be very hard to find someone who is meant for you.

 

Then an interesting conversation ensued where I asked what should I do, if on top of this, I am not as "special" on the outside. I am no topmodel, dress conservative for my age and I am rather chubby (US size 8). He argued that "it isn't so easy on the marker with men, bcs the more intelligent the woman is (and you are, I won't lie to you), the higher are her expectations for a man. She won't let herself be manipulated or owned (in the BDSM sense) by a fool/a douchebag. And now we already are at the top of the pyramid of men; a lot of those intelligent and good ones are submissives, the dominants are usually married or if not, they are often emotionally/mentally not ok. You don't want that either.

 

The only help for you would be to offer on the outside (looks-wise) what you also offer on the inside (intelligence). If this isn't the case, then it's going to be very very complicated to find someone for you, because on the market, there are a few women who offer both and the top men rather choose them. Such a special man you seek would logically look for an "all in one" woman, an intelligent topmodel. If you are like that, then great. If not, the top men will not want you and you will search in that group in vain for years.

 

Think like the top man - he wants a woman that others lust after and is "valuable" and belongs to him, not a sub who nobody else wants. So your only help is to work on what you have to offer visually, so that it is on par with your intelligence."

 

Do you agree or disagree? Is this really the mechanics of the "men market"? If I understood it correctly, my only help would be to lose weight (and probably a few plastic surgeries). Rather grim future...

 

So basically, date your equal in looks. It is typical, at least with online dating, that women tend to think they can do a whole lot better. An average looking person, even men on occasion, tend to have their attitude skewed in favor of wanting more than what they THEMSELVES can offer...and there is some truth to this.

 

Then they realize those top tier beautiful people only date within their wheel house of equal in beauty.

[CptInsano]

So basically, date your equal in looks. It is typical, at least with online dating, that women tend to think they can do a whole lot better. An average looking person, even men on occasion, tend to have their attitude skewed in favor of wanting more than what they THEMSELVES can offer...and there is some truth to this.

 

There is *some* truth to that. Yet there is a lot of variance in the somewhat attractive category, largely due to personal preferences. It amazes me how little I can predict whether or not a woman will like me through my own evaluation of her looks.

 

Then they realize those top tier beautiful people only date within their wheel house of equal in beauty.

 

There are exceptions, especially outside of OLD.

[CaliforniaGirl]

This is so true.

 

People think that they can just troll around in wrinkled clothes, T-shirts, unshaven, bad BO and are entitled to have people accept them as they are.

If you lack charisma, communication skills, you have jacked up teeth, are overweight, no sense of style…

 

Even more if you are rude, are just stupid who wants that?

If you keep getting on here complaining about nobody is selecting you or not responding to you or if you are lucky enough to get a “first” date but not getting seconds… “become the BEST version of you”

 

^ I think such people learn fast that this isn't possible, when they just don't get any dates.

 

At that point you either pick yourself up (B.O.? Really?), set your sights lower, or stay alone.

 

But I don't think the OP probably qualifies as that horrific. Actually, the "complaints" put forth by the man she rejected seemed VERY small. Size 8 means she should settle for an old geezer with no social skills, no sexiness and who thinks he should call a woman names in order to get her to put out? I really think there's a middle ground between "she's obviously shooting for the best" and this.

 

JMO.

[redheaded-squirrel]

There are exceptions, especially outside of OLD.

 

These exceptions - are they usually 1. top women dating less attractive men or 2. top men with less attractive female partners (less attractive than themselves)? Because I think the majority of cases fall under no.1

[CaliforniaGirl]

These exceptions - are they usually 1. top women dating less attractive men or 2. top men with less attractive female partners (less attractive than themselves)? Because I think the majority of cases fall under no.1

 

What I see just looking around, from the time I was tiny until now (I'm nearly 50), is way, way more of women giving men a "pass" on looks. (That's why it cracks me up when so many men complain that women "think they deserve a good-looking guy!" and "are so picky!". Are you kidding me? Ever walked a busy city street and looked around you???)

 

But in general it seems like most people are approximately equal in looks. I do say *in general* and *approximately* there but...way more so than not.

 

This is my experience so don't anybody freak out.

[CptInsano]

These exceptions - are they usually 1. top women dating less attractive men or 2. top men with less attractive female partners (less attractive than themselves)? Because I think the majority of cases fall under no.1

 

Outside of OLD it seems to go both ways, but my own perception may be subjective. What I see is that there is a cluster of "average looking" people where one partner might look better than the other, but not drastically so. Within that group looks don't seem to be that drastic of a differentiator.

 

Then you have the outliers, the very attractive or very unattractive. And there I have seen both combinations also. But again, my impression may also be subjective, as we tend look at the opposite sex with different eyes.

[basil67]

marilyn munro was a size 14 at one stage.....

 

Sorry - total segue here. MM being a size 14 at one stage was a myth. She was far smaller than that. I've attached a link to the analysis of her clothing.

 

Marilyn Monroe's True Size. Her clothing tells the truth.