The Outlaw Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 Still better but I'm feeling half dead from work.
MeadowFlower Posted February 20, 2020 Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) Oh my gosh. We have visitors and it is proving to try me. I'm super particular.. Roll on when they go. Just leave the dam dishes for f**ks sake. Edited February 20, 2020 by MeadowFlower 3
Beachead Posted February 20, 2020 Posted February 20, 2020 On 2/18/2020 at 12:44 PM, scooby-philly said: I also agree - people will do what they want in the end. In the last relationship, sure I made some small mistakes - I make them in every area of my life every day. But...I was close to the best partner I could be and in the end, her immaturity, her sense of still expecting her family to change, her sense of shame over herself, her lack of skills, her family and their socioeconomic status, and her "good girl" defense mechanism means nothing I could have done would have changed the outcome in the long run. And the failure of the relationship is 95% on her. I can only be blamed for trying longer than it was obvious than I should have, if that makes any sense. I've embraced the darkness for 6 months now. I still get tears and a heavy feeling of shame and grief once a day as I confront my past choices and confront the fact that I am alone. But I'm slowly emerging from the darkness. Slowly rediscovering my self-worth. Slowly recovering my dreams, my goals, my wants, my needs, etc. I can even appreciate the heartbreaks I've had with relationships, friendships, and family. Even this past one. While I still get angry once in a while and I miss that "best friend" every day - I'm free of her. I don't care about her or what happens to her, I don't care about the fact that I will never see her again. And I know the past relationship was a way for the universe (or God, Buddha, Jesus, whatever you want to call it) to teach me how to truly love someone and how to be truly vulnerable to someone. And I've learned that my needs and wants are valid and I deserve someone who will help me with those as much as I help them with theirs. You did your best. Fact is, she was just miles behind you in life lived, experience and perspective. Like you said, nothing you can do would have made the difference. Who you were at that period of time and who she was at that period of time summed up to a grand total of incompatibility. When I was in my early 20's (and I'm sure you know exactly what I mean) there was so much I didn't know. So much inexperience. I look back at myself and cringe sometimes..but I was doing the best I could with who I was at that time. I am sure 10 years from now, I will look back at my 30's and feel the same. We are ever-changing, because we are continuously experiencing and learning. Just as you are learning from each subsequent experience in your life, she will continue to as well and she may change from it. Perhaps she will change for the better and look back at the way she treated you with shame. Perhaps not. I've seen many people continue to be their crappy selves and not change much over the past decade (These people are either very unaware of themselves or have an incredibly thick ego)..but I've also seen some people in the past become better. I've seen quiet antisocial folk become social butterflies and I've seen the opposite. I've seen those who were heading to destruction turn their lives around. I myself made some very crucial changes to myself and my life. Whatever it is she's going through that makes her who she is..that's her journey. I don't really expect anyone to be able to look at their situations like this because it really is the final stage of grief. Took 2 years of daily work for me to even get there. Up until then, I was sad, I journaled, I wrote on here, I felt sorry for myself, I hated them and recruited anger to get me through my days. Every now and then..I still do. But what I try to remember is, we're all just trying to figure it out. Even the ones who hurt us. Keep processing and keep working through things and when you do feel up to it, test out your capacity to love. Exercise that understanding and forgiveness time to time (If you haven't done so yet) to keep yourself from wiring permanent anger and resentment into your brain as a permanent habit. Love, for yourself..by not holding yourself hostage to who a person was as that person may no longer even exist anymore. Ultimately, we may throw our best years away on it and what tragedy that would be. Nobody but less than a handful should have the power to do that. If anything, the moment I was really able to connect with that thought..it made more sense as to why I had to towards letting go and move forward with my life. We don't to move on..we just have to move passed. Moving on will naturally come. That's not to preach to you but to just help facilitate your daily processing. - Beach 1
2BGoodAgain Posted February 20, 2020 Posted February 20, 2020 16 hours ago, Beachead said: @2BGoodAgain Happy you shared. I read the whole thing and nope I didn't laugh. I've had a circus act of a life myself. I'll just get to it and I apologize in advance for any presumptuous or disrespectful tones or assumptions in my post. Right there..you both knew right from the get go, that this had the makings to be a disaster. You both knew but you both succumbed to the emotional ecstacy of it all. The thing about affairs is its ultimately self-defeating. If she could cheat on her husband...she could do it to you. Although you were willing to forego that though.. it'd gnaw at you until it was all you'd think about. Make you paranoid. Make you possessive, ultimately destroying the relationship. The trust just wouldn't be there because the relationship began on such dishonest terms. Another problem with it was since you two were on and off and always in contact..neither of you ever really had that time to zoom out of your situation and see the bigger picture with clarity and wide-scope perspective. You were both too caught up and too close to the drama. This came more from a place of addiction, separation-anxiety, and just general emotional weakness..rather than a place of love, sincerity and strength. It was more like a drug. As a result, even when you should have disconnected completely, you both chose connection . You both would slip-up for that momentary good feeling, knowing you'd pay the price in the longterm. You go your separate ways, thing would get hard, those withdrawal symptoms would come about again, and somehow, someway, you two would find an excuse to return. Get your dose, have your fill, get into a fight about something and separate. Rinse and repeat. You'd describe it as friendship but it wasn't. There were expectations and feelings cluttering and contaminating it so it was never a friendship. It doesn't mean you both didn't wish it could be though. The question is, what do you want from her? Do you want to be with her and if you think you do..is it or the right reasons or unhealthy ones? If you don't..again do you want to move on or do you want to be stuck in this cyclical mess with her, giving up every potentially good woman or healthy relationship. If she returns, history has shown the destruction its caused to your romantic life. 12 years of on and off is a long time. That's 12 years of toxic habits programmed deep into the brain. The only way to unlearn them is the requirement of a lot of time (Like a solid year or two) away from eachother. You'll face more withdrawal symptoms along the way like these dreams. Your mind is going to want to take you back to your drug (Her) and its going to find ways to get it done. I imagine, it may be the same for her. Maybe you already know all this or maybe I got it wrong but hopefully something might connect. - Beach There really isn't anything you've said that i'd disagree with. I think the longest we were apart was a few years... where we had absolutely no contact. She threw herself into her life, as i did into my life. That happened a couple of times. But this last time... was much different. On several layers. From her, I think she got to a point where she realized i wasn't what she thought she was after. To sum it up bluntly. I'm sure there might be some part of her that still has some sort of soft spot, but after the few pointedly honest words i exchanged with her, I don't think she'll be coming back. Mebbe when im' 6 feet under the ground, she might visit it... who knows... As for me, looking back on it all... who i am right now b/c of self discoveries about myself interacting with her... so i value the level of self awareness i have about my own limits and lack of limits, and it has helped me define who i am, but perhaps i could have gotten here without her.. who knows. But looking back... every bad thing that's happened... she's involved in it. Not that she caused it, mind you... i was the one who chose my actions, and the result consequences are my own, but she was inexplicably there when it happened... so looking back, it does feel like fate or just logic, dictates we weren't a good match. of course, many of those dramatic interactions were based on not being together.. but perhaps that's just a base level layer, and if you take it all of it, on every level... not a good match. i think our character flaws meshed... and we took that as being some sort of love affair of a life time fantasy... instead of looking at the reality of it. definitely, most if not all affairs are fantasy. I say that quite often to the chagrin of many who feel i'm invaliding how they may feel about their AP, but i never said how they felt was fake.. or untrue.. but hurt, the intense feelings are very real... but the root cause of it, tends to be fantasized/rationalized by the said individuals... and i agree... i keep asking myself this whenever my mind seem to not be able to get off the topic of our past relationship... do i really want to be with her? The answer is no. Our last trip together, by arguing with her, and rehashing past hurts on both sides.. i came to a realization of why i kept telling her no(to being with her)... she was a risky choice. Plain and simple. When i met my current partner, she was stable, no drama, no insecurities(other than the ones i have given her, to my regret)... not perfect, but not deeply flawed either(like myself)... whereas my AP was ...well, like me... deeply flawed in her own way.. past hurts that haunt her, deep character flaws that meshed really well with my own... i think we fed off each other's flaws and this connection we felt so intensely... though most likely just a fantasy away from the realities of our own lives... we mistaken it for love/chemistry. who knows, mebbe we did have some sort of insane chemistry.. mebbe if we had met under diff circumstances, it would have ended differently, but i dunno... there are days i think it could have worked, but most other days... i don't think it would have... i think we met at a time in our lives where our circumstances made each other very attractive, not b/c we were running to each other, but rather we were running away from the reality of our lives. in the end, she was the risky choice... and the partner i was with, was the safer choice... the irony is... back when she was choosing between her current hub and her recent ex-bf at the time... she chose the safer choice.. a man who was financially good on paper... and thinking back, she realized he wouldn't be avail to her emotionally or physically...yet she chose it, b/c at the time, she was financially unstable and wanted that financially stable home with lots of kids, etc... everything she didn't have. Her hub was good on paper. The safe choice. She chose not to go back to her ex-bf, who i think genuinely loved her, and she knew it, but she chose the safer choice. And here i was, choosing the safer choice, instead of her, the risky choice... having said that, i'm not saying the risky choice was any better... just that, it was what i concluded as i was talking to her and discovering why i've been saying no to her all these years. So i look to my partner and wonder... am i with her for the 'safe' choice... will i be in the same boat my AP is in right now.. where now that she's financially stable...well, really stable... she realizes she wants that love she gave up, b/c she chose the safer bet? Perhaps that's why i worry... who knows.. more therapy for me to figure this out. 1
scooby-philly Posted February 20, 2020 Posted February 20, 2020 43 minutes ago, Beachead said: You did your best. Fact is, she was just miles behind you in life lived, experience and perspective. Like you said, nothing you can do would have made the difference. Who you were at that period of time and who she was at that period of time summed up to a grand total of incompatibility. When I was in my early 20's (and I'm sure you know exactly what I mean) there was so much I didn't know. So much inexperience. I look back at myself and cringe sometimes..but I was doing the best I could with who I was at that time. I am sure 10 years from now, I will look back at my 30's and feel the same. We are ever-changing, because we are continuously experiencing and learning. Just as you are learning from each subsequent experience in your life, she will continue to as well and she may change from it. Perhaps she will change for the better and look back at the way she treated you with shame. Perhaps not. I've seen many people continue to be their crappy selves and not change much over the past decade (These people are either very unaware of themselves or have an incredibly thick ego)..but I've also seen some people in the past become better. I've seen quiet antisocial folk become social butterflies and I've seen the opposite. I've seen those who were heading to destruction turn their lives around. I myself made some very crucial changes to myself and my life. Whatever it is she's going through that makes her who she is..that's her journey. I don't really expect anyone to be able to look at their situations like this because it really is the final stage of grief. Took 2 years of daily work for me to even get there. Up until then, I was sad, I journaled, I wrote on here, I felt sorry for myself, I hated them and recruited anger to get me through my days. Every now and then..I still do. But what I try to remember is, we're all just trying to figure it out. Even the ones who hurt us. Keep processing and keep working through things and when you do feel up to it, test out your capacity to love. Exercise that understanding and forgiveness time to time (If you haven't done so yet) to keep yourself from wiring permanent anger and resentment into your brain as a permanent habit. Love, for yourself..by not holding yourself hostage to who a person was as that person may no longer even exist anymore. Ultimately, we may throw our best years away on it and what tragedy that would be. Nobody but less than a handful should have the power to do that. If anything, the moment I was really able to connect with that thought..it made more sense as to why I had to towards letting go and move forward with my life. We don't to move on..we just have to move passed. Moving on will naturally come. That's not to preach to you but to just help facilitate your daily processing. - Beach Thanks @Beachead. Yeah, there were times I got impatient or angry or frustrated, but I could not have been a more patient, kind, loving, affectionate, understanding, and better partner for her. It comes down exactly to that point - she was too young and too sheltered, too inexperienced and too shame based to take on a real, serious relationship. I'm glad at least I didn't move to be closer to her, because in the long run, there's not telling who she will become. I told here when we were dating and as we split - she really is an awesome woman and I saw glimpses. But her default mode is to hide, she's uncomfortable with herself, very judgmental, very shame based, and just not ready to live her own life, try things, etc. But...again I'm not looking back - I'm moving forward. For her sake and the love I had for her, I do hope she changes for the better and meets a great guy at some point. I hope she gets away from her toxic and shame based family. But...there's no guarantee of that either nad it's no longer my concern. As I mentioned the other day here and in the one thread about "what would you have done differently" - I would have left at 7 months or a year - when if I was looking at things realistically - the writing was on the wall that she would never tell her parents about us because it would violate her "good girl image" (which is weird considering she was hiding 3 (now 4) tattoos from them lmfao). And yeah, part of me would love for her to realize how crappy she treated me one day. But the reality is her "good girl" persona makes her blind to having faults or being able to hurt anyone. So who knows what the future holds for her. And I agree - there's only 1 ex that I would say I'd punch in the face if I saw her - complete psychopath - but the rest - and even former friends I cut off - I just wish them the best! And I definitely know I can and will love again. As I said, this past relationships taught me I can be a great partner, I can love someone completely, and I can be in love more with them at 2 years then at 2 months. And the anger isn't permanent. I think it's healthy sign for me as I probably have not been as angry in the past 6 months as I should have been given the circumstances. And yeah - I'm not holding onto anything - whether it's relationships, family, friendships, even my career. And you're right 115% - there should be only a handful of people in our lives that can hold power over us. For me, the lessons have been many and as a pattern, I just need to keep on dating and if red flags pop up, I just need to not ignore them, trust my gut, and stick to my ground.
scooby-philly Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 I am feeling good today. A bit tired. And I didn't work out tonight. And I still am not sleeping great. But...I feel the weight coming off. I know, skimming through this book someone recommended - rebuilding when your relationship ends - that my inner child, or little dude, was too hung up on my recent ex - still saw her as "nice" " - whereas if I step back and look at her with my mind as an adult - she was a frightened, insecure, bitter, angry, and scared little girl. Not trying to demean her. I completely understand why she is that way. I used to be that way too. But...I've done the work on myself to be able to live my life and follow my dreams/interests. That's what I have to keep reminded myself. I met previous exes while out and just living my life, I can and will eventually find a great person to be by my side. And I can take all the lessons I learned and also not sell myself short and not settle just because someone is willing to date me. It's so true - self-worth and self-love is the basis of all healthy relationships. 1
andytuotuo Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) I still get the urge wanting to text you. I don't understand why we as human beings have to be so cold to each other. I have typed up 'Hi' so many times, I still haven't hit 'send'. You are the one that got away. Edited February 21, 2020 by andytuotuo
spiritedaway2003 Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 12 hours ago, 2BGoodAgain said: And here i was, choosing the safer choice, instead of her, the risky choice... having said that, i'm not saying the risky choice was any better... just that, it was what i concluded as i was talking to her and discovering why i've been saying no to her all these years. So i look to my partner and wonder... am i with her for the 'safe' choice... will i be in the same boat my AP is in right now.. where now that she's financially stable...well, really stable... she realizes she wants that love she gave up, b/c she chose the safer bet? Perhaps that's why i worry... who knows.. more therapy for me to figure this out. Sometimes I wonder about this too. The risky choice can work out or completely blow up in your face, so easiest path for most people is to choose the "safe" choice. There is also nothing wrong with a safe choice either, as it brings comfort and security. I tend to think of it like this: Some people would rather stay in a stable job where it provides the usual comforts and familiarity. For some people, they might be be OK with the job even if have outgrown it for a long time. For others, they are willing to take a risk. It's like in game shows. Some people are willing to give up a guaranteed $5k for a chance to win up to $50k. (That can work out well or they might end up with nothing). Others would rather take the guaranteed prize. It depends on where they are in life and how much risk they can tolerate. It's something I've been thinking a lot lately. It's human nature to take calculated risk, but the only problem is this: Sometimes the heart doesn't listen to logic. Generally, I don't think spend a lot of time thinking about whether I am taking a "safer" or the "riskier" choice. I've always took the 'safer choice, but I'm evaluating that lately. Generally, I think that is OK so long as one is not just merely settling. 1
andytuotuo Posted February 22, 2020 Posted February 22, 2020 I feel good tonight. I still have this hint of anxiety lingering in my stomach and holding back my breath, but I feel a lot better. When she first choose not to be with me, I should have respected my self enough to just say ‘thank you, next’, instead of doing all the tv drama of begging, friending all that. I should have known that that wasn’t either of us wanted, be a mature adult and moved on. I lied to myself for the longest time I wasn’t in love, but I fell to the ground, hit my teeth, and let unrequited love blinded me. I thought about texting her tonight. Who am I fooling? Apart from myself. No matter what I say now, I’m not over you. I hope I can keep this clarity. 1
AIJ Posted February 22, 2020 Posted February 22, 2020 Having a tiny relapse today. Had a pretty bad day overall and my friends have cancelled on me when we were meant to be going out tonight. Now I'm sat at home, in bed, just thinking about everything again. I don't have the same level of pain I had before when I thought about it, but it still definitely hurts and there's a part of me that is telling me to break NC. I won't, I know I won't, but it's just annoying to have that little voice there telling me to do so.
scooby-philly Posted February 22, 2020 Posted February 22, 2020 @AIJ - Get out of the house. Go for walk. Hop on a bus. Go for a drive. The hardest part of recovery are those "down" moments. Not saying you run away from your feelings. In fact, the only true path to recovery is THROUGH the darkness. But once you've let the feelings run their course - 10 minutes, an hour, two hours, get active and get busy. At that point you've flushed that set of feelings from your system and anything residual is just your brain trying to figure s*** out...which only comes with time and clarity.
Realitysux Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 I'm doing good.. I'm still in the gym, eating well, working, I'm cleaning my house and organizing it because it tends to get messy by Sunday. I'm meeting people (both male and female friends), I'm setting more goals and working at them. But every so often, I get the urge to talk to him. From reading this it's very common. Its a weird feeling. I have a lot of selfish reasons for wanting to connect and an unselfish reason would be to keep the silence and move on. I am battling with myself to be an unselfish person, wish them well and move on. I know this is also off topic, but I was connecting with God and then realized we are suppose to give 10 percent to God's work! These days where is God's work. Do I give that much money to a church when the church generally uses that money to benefit personally off it. I know this pastor that used the left over sod from his church for his personal real estate and I couldn't help but think that's human nature. Half the organizations out there profit themselves off this ten percent. You're suppose to bless people and you yourself will be blessed. A selfish reason to give but not a lot of people do that these days. I'm kind of rambling! My point is I believe I need God to be successful too and to feel complete but do I have the ability to give without wanting anything in return? Interesting question I decided to ask myself over the next few days. 1
The Outlaw Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 Good for now. Then reality sets back in tomorrow.
The Outlaw Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 I hope it gets better for you, @MeadowFlower. 1
AIJ Posted February 24, 2020 Posted February 24, 2020 I'm struggling. My little blip on Saturday has turned into basically feeling like I'm back at square one. Trying to keep myself busy as best as I can but I just really miss her. 1
scooby-philly Posted February 24, 2020 Posted February 24, 2020 @AIJ - That's okay. Recovery is a rollercoaster ride. Do not worry about "where you are" or some timeline. Just feel. Embrace the feelings. Embrace the darkness. Cry, shout, scream, yell, jump up and down, whatever your emotions tell you. And keep talking. You'll wake up tomorrow feeling better. You'll relapse next week and feel like you're back at square one whereas in two months you'll look back and realize you were already half way through the journey.
scooby-philly Posted February 24, 2020 Posted February 24, 2020 On 2/23/2020 at 12:45 PM, MeadowFlower said: Feeling a little down or something. Feelings are good. But I'm sorry you're feeling down. Something specific or that dull achy, something is not right sort of feeling?
scooby-philly Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Was feeling good. Had been talking to someone online. Apparently they didn't think about where they lived vs where they're from on their dating profile - so a week of good conversation out the window cause they're not 2 hours away - they're 6.5 hours away. WTF! Seriously! Ugh - not going to let it bother me but man - talk about frustrating.
MeadowFlower Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 @scooby-phillyAnd this is a deal breaker?
scooby-philly Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 @MeadowFlower - I hope that was sarcastic. Yes.... a 6.5 hour drive is a deal breaker. I live in the middle of the Northeast Megaopolis. I'm okay with 2 hours. And I'm okay if I happened to meet someone IRL or maybe even online further - but to go into a conversation thinking x when it's y - shows the person has no consideration for people.
sothereiwas Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Great. Debugging/building/editing and d*cking around here during the builds. Life is great.
MeadowFlower Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, scooby-philly said: @MeadowFlower - I hope that was sarcastic. Yes.... a 6.5 hour drive is a deal breaker. I live in the middle of the Northeast Megaopolis. I'm okay with 2 hours. And I'm okay if I happened to meet someone IRL or maybe even online further - but to go into a conversation thinking x when it's y - shows the person has no consideration for people. No it wasn't sarcastic. So it's okay if it is a 6.5 hour drive or further? It's not the distance, but the fact you didn't know and weren't told? 1
scooby-philly Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, MeadowFlower said: No it wasn't sarcastic. So it's okay if it is a 6.5 hour drive or further? It's not the distance, but the fact you didn't know and weren't told? No, it's not really okay for a 6.5 hour drive. I'm saying that I'd only really, ever possibly consider it if it were like someone I knew for a long time or we had met irl but even then, it wouldn't be my preference. But on top of that yes, it's about someone saying their x (or in x location) when they're really 3 (or in 3 location). The use of number/letter to show how different they are.
Beachead Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 @scooby-philly Sorry to here that Scoobs. If the driving time pisses you off right now..then I'd bet the act of actually driving will cause you to resent her and therefore expect something in return for going out of your way, should you choose to do it. Worse, you're in a position where you shouldn't share your frustrations with her because you two just met. Being its online and the beginning, who knows how she might receive the tone. The resentment, expecting something in return, and not being able to express freely won't make for a good start. For that reason alone, I'd say, let this one go and continue searching for something that'll be more mutual.
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