How are you coping today?

[Beachead]

Aw I think you should give it a try slowly? No expectations in the beginning. Have you tried online dating or anything? I've had 2 break-ups, one brutal. But many people have had more right. Just think of it as having a drink with a pretty girl who is potentially nice and has fun things to talk about. Otherwise I find it's really hard to forget the ex. Seeing new people distracts me. Or hang out with single opposite gender friends. I did that a lot in the beginning which helped since I know they won't hurt me like new potential dates.

 

I don't know. I have a massive wall built up. I can feel it.

 

I had a lot of female friends back then. After dating normally didn't go so well, I tried online dating. Met some nice people. Met some terrible ones too. Nothing ever worked out. After last year and that disaster, I felt completely depleted. Haven't really developed the strength to deal with someone scrutinizing my life or me on a personl level ever since. Even though I've moved passed that situation now, I still feel depleted. When people around me are constantly shoving their relationships in my face, I can feel the sting. Yet, if I were to talk to a girl I'd just think..meh, they'll be looking for the backdoor in a few months anyway. I preemptively end it in my mind and don't care if I blew a potential opportunity, even though deep down there's that desire for companionship. Slow might be an understatement for me. Might need a long time.

 

Perhaps it's a defense mechanism. Who knows.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Beachead

[Chilli]

lt doesn't need a name or an explanation sounds perfectly natural under the circumstances to me.

 

So many people seem to push this stuff round here and to pointless avail to just date date date for more of the same.

 

Why not just live for you for a change , do things your into or maybe even something big you've been wanting to do like travel or whatever.

For awhile.

 

And who knows , maybe down the track when your not looking , the perfect lady pops up anyway.

 

Good luck and go easy on yourself eh.

[Funny bunny]

Thanks faithfully. Beautifully said. 1 day NC. Breakup yesterday. How much I love him still.

[JP92]

Feeling angry. An employee at work decided he wanted to quit, but he called me up and looked me in the eyes to explain his reasons and put in a two week notice. This just made me think about my ex. We shared so many close moments together and she said she loved me, but she couldn't even show me the respect that a ****ing employee who I've never seen outside of work showed me. She strung me along and then ended it by text when I least expected it. Spending the night with me the night before, discussing vacations, saying she missed me, and setting plans in stone for the day she dumped me. A true coward and very immature. The funny thing is, she was switching jobs when we dated and was just going to quit and not show up. I convinced her to put in a two weeks notice because it's the respectful thing to do and won't cause bad blood in the future. I guess that's her thing. When it doesn't work out for her, she runs away like a coward and blindsides others. Yet, she thinks everything she does is so calculated and in best interest for everyone else. Maybe she was a narcissist all along, I don't know. God, I hope karma exists. This made me feel so angry today when I was thinking about it.

Edited June 18, 2018 by JP92

[Funny bunny]

4 days NC. His friend messaged me last night and asked how he and I were doing. I told him about the breakup and he said he tried to tell him to compromise. This morning sucks. Been thinking about how little he cared the last month. After I said something. I wish he would have brought it up and we could have talked about it instead of breakup up. He just didn’t love me enough to stay and make it work. I need to process that.

 

Signed up for counseling yesterday, expensive but worth the healing of my insecurities

[Mac0908]

Feeling angry. An employee at work decided he wanted to quit, but he called me up and looked me in the eyes to explain his reasons and put in a two week notice. This just made me think about my ex. We shared so many close moments together and she said she loved me, but she couldn't even show me the respect that a ****ing employee who I've never seen outside of work showed me. She strung me along and then ended it by text when I least expected it. Spending the night with me the night before, discussing vacations, saying she missed me, and setting plans in stone for the day she dumped me. A true coward and very immature. The funny thing is, she was switching jobs when we dated and was just going to quit and not show up. I convinced her to put in a two weeks notice because it's the respectful thing to do and won't cause bad blood in the future. I guess that's her thing. When it doesn't work out for her, she runs away like a coward and blindsides others. Yet, she thinks everything she does is so calculated and in best interest for everyone else. Maybe she was a narcissist all along, I don't know. God, I hope karma exists. This made me feel so angry today when I was thinking about it.

 

Funny how certain things will trigger all those thoughts, isn't it? All part of the process. At least it was for me and you. As embarrassing as it is to admit, in the early stages I'd get all down for the day if it were just snowing outside since I know she loved it so much. Then I'd get angry like you have done. Bottom line again is to just keep remembering you did nothing wrong, did just about everything right, and that girl was probably in no position to give you what you wanted anyway.

[JP92]

Funny how certain things will trigger all those thoughts, isn't it? All part of the process. At least it was for me and you. As embarrassing as it is to admit, in the early stages I'd get all down for the day if it were just snowing outside since I know she loved it so much. Then I'd get angry like you have done. Bottom line again is to just keep remembering you did nothing wrong, did just about everything right, and that girl was probably in no position to give you what you wanted anyway.

 

For sure. I feel all the emotions throughout a day. Angry, sad, confused, hopeful(i quickly squash that), etc.

 

It's been a little over 3 weeks since contact and I'm in the acceptance stage. I doubt I'll ever hear from this chick ever again and that's okay. I think she'll learn the hard way that you don't mistreat people who treated you great. There are right and wrong ways to handle things.

[Beachead]

Feeling angry. An employee at work decided he wanted to quit, but he called me up and looked me in the eyes to explain his reasons and put in a two week notice. This just made me think about my ex. We shared so many close moments together and she said she loved me, but she couldn't even show me the respect that a ****ing employee who I've never seen outside of work showed me. She strung me along and then ended it by text when I least expected it. Spending the night with me the night before, discussing vacations, saying she missed me, and setting plans in stone for the day she dumped me. A true coward and very immature. The funny thing is, she was switching jobs when we dated and was just going to quit and not show up. I convinced her to put in a two weeks notice because it's the respectful thing to do and won't cause bad blood in the future. I guess that's her thing. When it doesn't work out for her, she runs away like a coward and blindsides others. Yet, she thinks everything she does is so calculated and in best interest for everyone else. Maybe she was a narcissist all along, I don't know. God, I hope karma exists. This made me feel so angry today when I was thinking about it.

 

Copy and paste what you wrote there to Mircrosoft Word and keep it saved some place for future reference. When you get weak, use it as a reminder. It will help. Anger is a good sign btw. Shows your mind is at work, processing everything and that means you're moving forward. It might not feel this way at the moment but, you are healing.

 

Stay strong

 

- Beach

Edited June 21, 2018 by Beachead

[Mac0908]

Very great thing to do, indeed, Beachead.

 

I have a pretend email drafted up that's written to her basically going over just about every single hurtful thing she put me through all those months ago. I detail it all. I detail how how wrong she was.

 

About once a week I go and re-read it. Sometimes bc I'm feeling a rare moment of sadness, and sometimes bc I just enjoy reading it for fun.

 

All I know is that it helps me every single time.

 

How have you been coping overall? I think it's been close to a year since all you went through, right? In all that time have you ever came close to meeting anyone noteworthy?

 

-Mac

[Beachead]

Very great thing to do, indeed, Beachead.

 

I have a pretend email drafted up that's written to her basically going over just about every single hurtful thing she put me through all those months ago. I detail it all. I detail how how wrong she was.

 

About once a week I go and re-read it. Sometimes bc I'm feeling a rare moment of sadness, and sometimes bc I just enjoy reading it for fun.

 

All I know is that it helps me every single time.

 

How have you been coping overall? I think it's been close to a year since all you went through, right? In all that time have you ever came close to meeting anyone noteworthy?

 

-Mac

 

That's good Mac. I'm glad you discovered that for yourself. I also did the same for myself when my relationships ended and it helped me keep sight of what needed to be done despite the mess in my head. It certainly stopped me from making the mistake of reaching out.

 

Well, it hasn't been a year yet but I mean, my ex willingly chose to become the past in my life. She might not have believed in me but I know what kind of a man I am. I take solace in that and carry on. I certainly notice other women now and feel temptations but the trouble and stress is not worth it for me. I know the demands placed on me as a man by the opposite sex and I'm not willing to test that again. I'm out of the scene for now. Going to spend a long while restoring my spirit and getting my life together.

 

How about you? Hanging in there alright?

 

- Beach

Edited June 21, 2018 by Beachead

[Cora]

It’s been a little over 3 years since he left. I’m nowhere near the deep, dark depressed state that I was in during that first year. I’ve even dated a few others since....crashed and burned a few times, but nowhere near the pain and hurt that he caused me. Recently.....I’d say within the past year or so I’ve become very bitter and made a choice to stop dating completely. I’d just rather not relive that dark place I was in even if there is only a slight chance. I’ve put a wall up that I’m not sure could ever be broken down or that I’d even want it broken down. Every now and then I do still think of him though.....but not in a fond way. I no longer feel love for him....just pain.

 

I think back to how he left me and how I struggled with understanding it....struggled with accepting it and making my own closure that he never gave me. This very loving man suddenly started making excuses as to why he couldn’t come over or do things together. He told me he wasn’t himself and had become very sick. Made this whole elaborate story of how doctors did not know what was wrong with him, but that it could be a brain tumor. He told me he needed time and space to process it all and to get better. That he did not want to bring me down. So I respected his wishes....gave him his space....prayed for him....cried for him....sent him a get well card months later. I stupidly believed him. Can’t believe how naive I was....how I couldn’t see he just wanted nothing more to do with me. That he’d moved on to someone new. How foolish I was!

 

A few months after he left me I had a health scare. Had to have emergency surgery to remove a growth on my ovary that possibly could be cancerous. Everything was happening so fast and I was scared. He was the one I normally spoke to to bring me comfort. He was my go to person I told everything to. But he was no longer there. I could not tell him any longer what was going on in my life. He no longer cared. All those agonizing days I spent in the hospital and the weeks after at home recovering.....crying.....grieving over him. Never to hear from him again. It was like he vanished into thin air. It was during those long agonizing weeks of recovering and being bored at home that I found out through social media he was seeing someone new and it looked quite serious. Found out he started seeing her while he was still with me. It explained a lot. I was crushed. Not so much because he left me for someone new, but because of the elaborate story he made up about his failing health. The fact that he felt he needed to lie to me and then just vanish. That hurt more than anything.

 

I kept a journal on my computer where I wrote about our time together. From the first date, first kiss to the last and everything in between. Every moment we ever spent together....how we’d take turns cooking for each other, our jokes, how I felt safe in his arms, the tender way he’d kiss me on the forehead before he left, his smile, how we’d stay up all night talking and laughing, falling asleep in each other’s arms. So many many moments. However, the journal isn’t complete. I never did write about him leaving me. It has no ending. Perhaps because he never provided closure. There was never a proper ending. No breakup....no goodbye from him...nothing. Does that mean I believe it’s not over? Of course not. I know it’s done and he’s never coming back. I’ve accepted that. Not even sure I’d want him back at this point. Too many painful memories that now overpower the good ones. I can’t even bring myself to read the journal. It would just bring back painful emotions that I’d rather keep locked away. Especially since I’m in a somewhat good place now. Happy without him.

 

However, I do sometimes tell myself that he had every right to leave me and didn’t owe me a thing. Had no obligation whatsoever to tell me goodbye or provide me any closure. I tell myself this to make me feel better and to not be so angry at him. I don’t know....maybe it’s true and he really didn’t owe me anything. Just never thought he would be the type to act that way. But I never truly knew the real him....how could I?

 

I’m doing better now though. Things in my life are falling into place. I’ve made some new friends, I start a new job soon that is going to help me accomplish a long time dream of mine, I’ve began getting back into shape physically and starting to enjoy interests of mine again I’ve had before I ever met him. The best part is I’ve become a little wiser....or at least I think I have. Never again will I fall back into my old ways and be so blinded by love that I become so oblivious to the red flags surrounding me. I am doing just fine on my own.

[divegrl]

I forgive you and set you free.

You are free and I am free.

All is well between us.

 

All is calm, grounded and peaceful.

[JP92]

Man, I wish I could go back in time and go NC the second I received that breakup text. I have a lot more clarity now and find myself angry whenever my ex enters my mind which is still a lot, unfortunately. I let her off sooooo easy after she disrespected me more than anyone has ever disrespected me. Going NC immediately would have definitely bothered her and not allowed her to ease her guilt. Live and learn. It's easy for me to say all this now a month removed from the BU when I've had a lot of time to think about everything. Maybe one day some dude she's madly in love with will dump her via text message when she least expects it.

[Mac0908]

Man, I wish I could go back in time and go NC the second I received that breakup text. I have a lot more clarity now and find myself angry whenever my ex enters my mind which is still a lot, unfortunately. I let her off sooooo easy after she disrespected me more than anyone has ever disrespected me. Going NC immediately would have definitely bothered her and not allowed her to ease her guilt. Live and learn. It's easy for me to say all this now a month removed from the BU when I've had a lot of time to think about everything.

 

Yup, like the old saying goes hindsight is 20/20. Like I've previously told you though at least you learned rather young how to handle a breakup unlike myself. I don't even think it's anything to be ashamed about. I'd say the majority of men would be devastated after being blown off in an out of nowhere way after such a great relationship, even if short term. I was like you too man. Used to blame myself for not acting this way or that way, but I made peace with myself in knowing that no matter how I acted, whether it be afc or whether it be like a "Real man", didn't change the fact that during my short term thing with this girl I did nothing wrong and treated her like gold. You seem the same. She was simply not ready for what you wanted and handled things in a very poor fashion. Good luck to her.

 

Well, it hasn't been a year yet but I mean, my ex willingly chose to become the past in my life. She might not have believed in me but I know what kind of a man I am. I take solace in that and carry on. I certainly notice other women now and feel temptations but the trouble and stress is not worth it for me. I know the demands placed on me as a man by the opposite sex and I'm not willing to test that again. I'm out of the scene for now. Going to spend a long while restoring my spirit and getting my life together.

 

How about you? Hanging in there alright?

 

- Beach

 

I'm doing very well but like I've said before while sometimes I'm positive I'm at 100%, other times something unique will trigger thoughts and then I do have some pretty rough moments of weakness. Just recently I was on a date with a girl in my ex's old neighborhood, and I ended up not being super attractive to this girl and her personality while nice, wasn't exactly my cup of tea. I just began having flashbacks during the actual date of being out with my ex and just enjoying every single second. Thinking about how this was what (I thought) I had waited many years for. Enjoying the conversation. Enjoying simply seeing her smile. I'll never forget just how much I'd actually look forward to a date when I was involved with her.

 

For a while I used to think I was so devastated bc of how beautiful she was and how she was my type to a T, but as I've dated more and more recently I'm starting to realize just how true it was that she had a great personality that truly complimented mine. We had fun together. We clicked. This upsets me bc while I know there are other girls out there for me that are just as great if not better, I know it's like finding a needle in a haystack, especially in today's dating game and especially at my age. I guess I just have to keep thinking about the negative aspects of what she did to me, but for some reason it's still a little difficult to completely block out the good ones, especially when it was the most fun I'd had with a girl in many, many years.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Mac0908

[Cora]

So many emotions hit me today all at once. My family took me out for dinner today to celebrate my new job. We went to the same restaurant my ex took me to for our second date. It was my first time setting foot in that place since our second date all those years ago. We sat only two tables down from where the ex and I sat that night. Right outside the entrance was where we shared our first kiss.

 

It was so surreal being back at this place. So many memories flooded my mind mixed with a tinge of sadness. I thought I would take it harder than I did. I honestly didn’t know what I expected to feel. However, I felt at peace with it all. I was hit with a sense of relief....relief that it was all over and he no longer controlled my feelings. I knew that I was over him and that in itself was a bit strange for me to comprehend. I mean I should be over him by now. For gods sake it’s been over three years. I can’t stay trapped in that moment in time....that moment where he left me. I think I was more shocked than anything to realize I was indeed over him. Like I said, I was hit with so many emotions.....sadness, fear, nostalgia, anger, confusion and relief....mostly relief.

 

Besides, I can’t avoid every place we ever went to together forever. I have to live my life. I have to move forward. There was life before him and there is plenty more life to live after him. Life goes on...

[JP92]

Yup, like the old saying goes hindsight is 20/20. Like I've previously told you though at least you learned rather young how to handle a breakup unlike myself. I don't even think it's anything to be ashamed about. I'd say the majority of men would be devastated after being blown off in an out of nowhere way after such a great relationship, even if short term. I was like you too man. Used to blame myself for not acting this way or that way, but I made peace with myself in knowing that no matter how I acted, whether it be afc or whether it be like a "Real man", didn't change the fact that during my short term thing with this girl I did nothing wrong and treated her like gold. You seem the same. She was simply not ready for what you wanted and handled things in a very poor fashion. Good luck to her.

 

 

Regardless of age, I think it's good for everyone to experience it on their own at least once. I've always learned best from personal experiences. This forum has helped a lot and you, Beach, and others have given great advice, but I was far from flawless after it occurred. Only now with time/clarity do I see how I should have acted. I didn't think it was possible for someone that seemingly cared so much about you to pull such an act and now i'll always have my guard up, no matter who I encounter. A good lesson. At least we can look back and know we gave them the ultimate respect/care and have no regrets. If we argued with them a lot, took them for granted, or were abusive, we'd have to live with that guilt forever. It gives me a peace of mind to know that I was the best me I could possibly be in the relationship.

Edited June 24, 2018 by JP92

[Mac0908]

Glad to see how you are realizing all that now. Happy for you. But again, one last time, you shouldn't have any real regrets at all about how you acted. Could you have gone NC a lot sooner? Sure. But nothing you did differently post blow off would have changed the fact that she did in fact blow you off hard and DIDN'T want you after you gave her your best. This was the mindset that I eventually came to and I understood it to be true and it helped me a great deal. With your particular case, you even went a little beta and she STILL reached back out trying to get your attention. In my book you're a winner on top of already being a winner in the end.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Mac0908

[JP92]

Glad to see how you are realizing all that now. Happy for you. But again, one last time, you shouldn't have any real regrets at all about how you acted. Could you have gone NC a lot sooner? Sure. But nothing you did differently post blow off would have changed the fact that she did in fact blow you off hard and DIDN'T want you after you gave her your best. This was the mindset that I eventually came to and I understood it to be true and it helped me a great deal. With your particular case, you even went a little beta and she STILL reached back out trying to get your attention. In my book you're a winner on top of already being a winner in the end.

 

Thanks. Yeah, I'd say I am 85% healed which is a hell of a lot better than where I was just two weeks ago. I feel like I've come pretty far considering where I was when I first posted on this forum. Whenever a tiny little thought of ever welcoming this chick back in my life one day enters my head, I immediately think about how hurt I was when she dumped me and I get mad. I hope to never see her face again. I was feeling so angry with myself for how I acted after the breakup but I forgave myself. To be so blindsided and told you were perfect and did nothing wrong would leave a lot of people confused beyond belief. I do know now that the reasons I were given were excuses and that's okay. I think my ex and your ex as well will have a lot of issues in the dating world and we won't feel the least bit sorry for them.

 

We had a lot of couple dates with my friend and his wife. When I talked with them the other day, his wife told me that she never liked my GF and just pretended to like her because of me. Not going to lie, that made me feel better. When I fall for someone or like someone, I'm so blind to their flaws and only see the good qualities. Right after the breakup, I put this woman on a pedestal. I had this stupid mindset that she was flawless and the best thing to ever happen to me and I'll never find a better woman. Now that I've regained some mental strength, I can see a lot of alarming red flags that were staring me in the face and I ignored them because I was so happy to have a loving woman in my life. One day, I'll look back and be glad I experienced this because I truly think it'll help me grow as a person.

Edited June 25, 2018 by JP92

[JP92]

I'm feeling annoyed. Sometimes I wonder if my ex reads this forum. I just had to block one of her friends who I forgot was even on my contact list. I got a text with a link and blindly clicked it and it was to my ex's instagram page where she has all these new uploads expressing her happiness and how the future is going to be so great. I had totally forgotten she even had a social media page. Looks like she's been on it 24-7 since ending it with me. Ok? Clearly she wanted me to these updates. What a weird person.

 

I scanned through my contact list on my phone and made sure all her friends were deleted. I don't get why the dumper seems set on getting some kind of weird revenge on me by trying to constantly showcase how happy she is without me in my life. It's honestly making me feel better about the breakup b/c it shows that I dated someone with the mindset of a toddler. Maybe she truly is happy, good for her. I don't want to see it and I want her to stop showing up in weird ways in my life.

 

I just found the text to be weird considering I was bragging about how over her I was on this forum the other day. She might have to access to this forum, but I really don't care at this point. I want her to be out of sight, out of mind. So annoying. Good luck to the poor guy that falls for her in the future.

Edited June 26, 2018 by JP92

[StrangerThanFiction]

Feeling pretty lonely lately. All I want is to cuddle up next to someone and fall asleep being held. No sex, just basic human contact. I feel so isolated right now.

[Mac0908]

I'm feeling annoyed. Sometimes I wonder if my ex reads this forum. I just had to block one of her friends who I forgot was even on my contact list. I got a text with a link and blindly clicked it and it was to my ex's instagram page where she has all these new uploads expressing her happiness and how the future is going to be so great.

 

May I ask the ages of these people and how you met this girl again? No offense but I often wonder if you're all still in high school with some of the tidbits in your posts. A friend of your ex sent you a link to your ex's Instagram page??

 

Unreal.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Mac0908

[Jsos91]

Gah Im feeling so frustrated lately... I keep thinking about her and I have no idea why, its been over a year now and Im starting to think this just isn't normal. She's contacted me a couple times over the last month and a bit so Im wondering if maybe thats why... but it frustrates me even more if her intention was to mess with my head and she's accomplished that.

I just wish she could respect the boundaries I've set and let this all go, I don't get the purpose of continuously pushing me when I've said I don't care to have a line of communication with her.

I dont understand trying to assuage her guilt.. I've said I don't want to talk so let that be the end of it and move on with your life.. I'd almost rather she forget me entirely at this point.

I'm feeling a bit hopeless right now because I don't know if I'll ever get over her 100%.. its just a scar that will always be there. I think maybe I need to look into going back to therapy for a bit.. I'm feeling like I'm not completely done processing things. I also need to stop trying to figure out why she does the things she does, thats a losing battle and I'll never figure it out.

I just need help seeing that light at the end of the tunnel... I don't know that its her I miss at this point so much as the feeling of being head over heels in love.. I need to believe I'll find that with someone else.

[TurntSloth1]

Had my first sleepless night in a while last night - she was on my mind again...

 

I know I've made the right choice by stepping away from the situation and removing her from my life but I wish it didn't have to be this way. I miss the good times with her so much. I'd give anything to go back to how we were...

[Beachead]

Gah Im feeling so frustrated lately... I keep thinking about her and I have no idea why, its been over a year now and Im starting to think this just isn't normal. She's contacted me a couple times over the last month and a bit so Im wondering if maybe thats why... but it frustrates me even more if her intention was to mess with my head and she's accomplished that.

I just wish she could respect the boundaries I've set and let this all go, I don't get the purpose of continuously pushing me when I've said I don't care to have a line of communication with her.

I dont understand trying to assuage her guilt.. I've said I don't want to talk so let that be the end of it and move on with your life.. I'd almost rather she forget me entirely at this point.

I'm feeling a bit hopeless right now because I don't know if I'll ever get over her 100%.. its just a scar that will always be there. I think maybe I need to look into going back to therapy for a bit.. I'm feeling like I'm not completely done processing things. I also need to stop trying to figure out why she does the things she does, thats a losing battle and I'll never figure it out.

I just need help seeing that light at the end of the tunnel... I don't know that its her I miss at this point so much as the feeling of being head over heels in love.. I need to believe I'll find that with someone else.

 

Yep, that is why you feel like this.

 

You're a recovering addict. Your drug is your ex and the hope she brings is the high. The disconnect you feel is what exposure to heroin feels like to a recovering heroin addict. They don't even have to consume it. It just has to be around. Accessible.

 

Temptations start to come but because you've gained clarity over time about your relationship, you've probably arrived to the conclusion that this is a dead end road. That doesn't mean that you've moved. It means you've begun to move passed. You are still mending. That makes you vulnerable to succumbing to false hope and self-deceit in favor of a possible second chance with this person. Wrestling between that logic and your addiction is the irritation you are feeling.

 

That is what exes ultimately want when they engage with you be it intentional or not.

 

- Beach

Edited June 27, 2018 by Beachead

[JP92]

May I ask the ages of these people and how you met this girl again? No offense but I often wonder if you're all still in high school with some of the tidbits in your posts. A friend of your ex sent you a link to your ex's Instagram page??

 

Unreal.

 

Yeah, it’s ridiculous, trust me. She is approaching 30 and most her friends are older than her, sadly. My ex went through a lot as a kid and never matured emotionally. She’s basically a grown toddler. Here I thought dating a woman older than me would mean they’d be a lot more mature than most girls I’ve interacted with but that clearly wasn’t the case.

Edited June 27, 2018 by JP92