Kind of pissed off

[Gaeta]

I disagree... he started to feel insecure because his gut feeling told him something was wrong and this reality unfolded. So it was necessary drama.

 

Could he have handle it better... yes.

But I believe she started to change thus, he reacted.

 

Example: if your boyfriend starts coming home late suddenly every night... this is not consistant behavior.

 

So this can trigger insecurity and doubt.

 

I believe as you progress in a relationship both parties take each other for granted... they are just not always at the same time frame.

 

If the OP didnt react how long would the girlfriend play GF.. months? Another year? Maybe cheat on him?

 

The O.P. did good standing his ground

 

You and l agree on the same thing l just express it differently. I agree OP blew up at first because of an ongoing underlying issue and that issue is she is less invested than he is. Of course l agree he stands his ground.

[KBob]

Ithe would be difficult to present a case that him standing his ground wasn't a good thing. A stand against childish communication was made and a positive outcome came of it. Sometimes we all need someone to check our behaviour. This seems like a case of trying to communicate while negotiating each other's emotional walls that we create to keep ourselves protected from pain. It can be hard to open yourself up to allowing someone to potentially hurt you, and that's where the emotional pinball game can start. I'm glad your two are working things out. I'll retract my crazy statement, her coming clean and communicating how your actions made her feel is a positive step.

 

I would suggest that if you want to invest more time with her and work through things that you should consider talking to a relationship therapist, if she is truly an avoidant you may need it to help you two through this; it's very rare that a person changes their attachment type

[Sweetfish]

You and l agree on the same thing l just express it differently. I agree OP blew up at first because of an ongoing underlying issue and that issue is she is less invested than he is. Of course l agree he stands his ground.

 

I was quite surprised she admitted she has a problem as well as the O.P. and are both willing to work it out. I think this is a good sign and I hope the O.P. the best and things do work out...

 

But these events will creep up later... im interested how the O.P. will resolve them..

 

Use the crutch that she has a problem?

Or be affirmative and stand his grounds?

[CaliforniaGirl]

Oh great Caesar's ghost.

 

I do think OP's initial reaction to the girlfriend's weird, shady, defensive non-response was warranted. I don't think he invented this grief and drama. I think she did.

 

She seems to keep going back and forth, and in very dramatic ways.

 

I think it's going to keep being a rollercoaster, JJ, until you are the one to get off the ride.

 

I am sorry to say that and I hope to hell I'm wrong but I don't have a lot of faith that I am.

[Gaeta]

I would suggest that if you want to invest more time with her and work through things that you should consider talking to a relationship therapist, if she is truly an avoidant you may need it to help you two through this; it's very rare that a person changes their attachment type

 

That was my thought. It's one thing to recognize we have a problem but that problem needs to have a name and only a therapist can point the problem, I don't think it's a good idea to go online and take a test to diagnose ourselves like she did.

[ChatroomHero]

What I notice on these relationship forums is that almost everyone gives the easiest advice - leave. Nobody communicates anymore in an adult way. It's easier to just leave and find somebody else. Reality is, it's not easy to find someone. If you still love her and thinks she's worth it, I'd say you both need to cool off and talk to each other again. It sounds like both of you lost your tempers.

 

Actually leaving is the hardest part a lot if times. That's why you see threads suffer 3 months before the inevitable happens.

 

Here's the thing - today in this relationship will be the same as next week, next month, next year...the OPs life is being made worse by this relationship. He is not or will not be happy going through this for months or years longer. Why, if you were not happy would you stay thinking somehow you will be OK with the same bs 10 years from now? The bs will not go away with her, OP would have to check his sanity at the door and pretend to be happy if he were to stay. Why would anyone suffer a relationship because it's hard to find someone else? That's called settling and being miserable instead of being alone.

[Jj66]

Actually leaving is the hardest part a lot if times. That's why you see threads suffer 3 months before the inevitable happens.

 

Here's the thing - today in this relationship will be the same as next week, next month, next year...the OPs life is being made worse by this relationship. He is not or will not be happy going through this for months or years longer. Why, if you were not happy would you stay thinking somehow you will be OK with the same bs 10 years from now? The bs will not go away with her, OP would have to check his sanity at the door and pretend to be happy if he were to stay. Why would anyone suffer a relationship because it's hard to find someone else? That's called settling and being miserable instead of being alone.

 

Definitely wrong on the settling part.

 

I could be with another woman tomorrow if I wanted to. I get flirted with all the time. There are half a dozen women that I could call up at this instant and have a date. Guaranteed.

 

I don't know what it is about her that has bewitched me. But I am definitely not staying in order avoid being alone.

 

There is probably some truth in the rest of what you say.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Jj66

[dumbass2]

"I don't know what it is about her that has bewitched me"

 

What is it? Her looks? The sex? This sounds like infatuation a bit. She can make you feel so good and then so miserable.

 

Are you honestly happy in the relationship and see a future with her just as she is today, flaws and all? Do you honestly believe she can change anything you have an issue with? Have you set definite boundaries for yourself that if she crosses, it's done for good? It's tough when you love someone to enforce boundaries, but you need to love yourself more. You try to compromise your beliefs and morals. When you do that though, it makes for an unhealthy relationship that will not last.

[GemmaUK]

I don't know what it is about her that has bewitched me..

 

You have her on a pedestal.

 

No wonder she was short with you - she has been in the wrong with you before over lots of little things. many of which you don't shout about but they are little comments here and there - they sound more joking/teasing than anything else.

 

On that pedestal she will make a mistake for simply being human.

 

When she was short with you her responses it absolutely showed she was waiting for another little dig/confrontation - but by that point in the relationship she was finding these little digs tedious.

She got one, she did anticipate it and was right.

[Jj66]

"I don't know what it is about her that has bewitched me"

 

What is it? Her looks? The sex? This sounds like infatuation a bit. She can make you feel so good and then so miserable.

 

Are you honestly happy in the relationship and see a future with her just as she is today, flaws and all? Do you honestly believe she can change anything you have an issue with? Have you set definite boundaries for yourself that if she crosses, it's done for good? It's tough when you love someone to enforce boundaries, but you need to love yourself more. You try to compromise your beliefs and morals. When you do that though, it makes for an unhealthy relationship that will not last.

 

Her positives:

 

She's beautiful, intelligent, sexy, successful, and quite frankly, terrific in bed. When we are together I always feel loved and cared for. She really tries to please me. I feel appreciated and admired. She's supportive in my difficulties and celebrative of my successes. She makes me want to be a better person and helps me do that.

 

Her negatives:

 

Her need for connection is lower than mine. She can sometimes be very dismissive to my bids for connection. As has been noted, she is too blunt not only with me but with other people too and often runs rough shod over people's feelings.

 

Shared negatives: both of our conflict resolution skills need some work.

 

In most of my relationships the woman has had a significantly higher need for connection than me. This is my first relationship ever in which my need for connection is higher.

 

If you look at it in terms of a reward schedule. She provides connection on what would be termed a variable ratio schedule. This is the same reward schedule used in gambling games and it's highly addictive.

 

Could I actually be addicted to her because she has made connecting with her into a sort of gambling game?

Edited February 17, 2017 by Jj66

[Frank13]

Nan.

Best way to avoid OP making other plans that night would be to accept seeing him that night.

 

Also WTF creates and maintains this kind of drama to makes sure the surprise isn't spoiled??

 

The only person creating drama ws the op. How would agreeing to meet the op that night keep him from making plans? Why would he make plans if she was not available but not make plans if she was?

[Jj66]

One week has now passed without further drama.

 

She appears to be making good changes in both her personal and professional life. She has also started calling me before she goes to bed. I love it. It is so much better than texting.

 

I've been working on not being over-sensitive in general (my kids give me some opportunity to work on this while I wait for the real test). I have also hit the gym regularly since this all fell out.

 

Will report back in a month.

[chix]

Thanks for coming back to update, JJ. Always helps to follow "a story", rather than just the "main event". Have you told her you love it when she calls? Do you feel like you are both showing appreciation to each other for changes (it's early days, of course)? Best of luck with the "reboot" and a wonderful Sprintime for you both.

[Jj66]

Thanks for coming back to update, JJ. Always helps to follow "a story", rather than just the "main event". Have you told her you love it when she calls? Do you feel like you are both showing appreciation to each other for changes (it's early days, of course)? Best of luck with the "reboot" and a wonderful Sprintime for you both.

 

Yes, absolutely. I always tell her thanks for calling, that I appreciate it, and that it lets me know that I am an important to her. I did not ask for this change. It's something she did on her own. I welcome it and am trying to "reward" behavior that I would like to continue.

 

One change I have made in recognition of her style is to let her initiate most of the communication. It seems to be working. She's initiating frequently enough to let me know she cares. The communication is also more satisfying to me since she is "there" when we talk instead of being distracted with her research, friends, or whatever. It's one of those quality versus quantity trade offs.

[Jj66]

Will be 11 months of dating as of this weekend. During the whole relationship she has maintained that she was never getting married again. Ever. She even went so far as to tell me that if I asked her she woukd say no. She also wouldn't toast to "eternal love" when we were in Rome, the Eternal City.

 

Two weeks ago she sent me a breakup email. I didn't chase or respond in anyway. After about 8 hours she came back to me wanting to get back together. I accepted.

 

Now this past weekend, she drops the M word on me. She says I'm really good for her and good to her. That if she were 25 she'd marry me.

 

My head started spinning just a bit. I was torn between saying thank you and say what the ****? I managed to say, we'll if I were also 25 I'd take you up on that.

 

But, what the hell. How can you break up with me less than 2 weeks ago and then tell me I would have been the perfect husband for you?

 

Is she saying she is now open to marriage? And why now? I've been working perfectly fine under the assumption of no remarriage for me. And she has been maintaining that same position for 11 months. Why the sudden change? Why less than 2 weeks after our only near breakup?

 

I do not understand people who swivel so easily.

[KBob]

Will be 11 months of dating as of this weekend. During the whole relationship she has maintained that she was never getting married again. Ever. She even went so far as to tell me that if I asked her she woukd say no. She also wouldn't toast to "eternal love" when we were in Rome, the Eternal City.

 

Two weeks ago she sent me a breakup email. I didn't chase or respond in anyway. After about 8 hours she came back to me wanting to get back together. I accepted.

 

Now this past weekend, she drops the M word on me. She says I'm really good for her and good to her. That if she were 25 she'd marry me.

 

My head started spinning just a bit. I was torn between saying thank you and say what the ****? I managed to say, we'll if I were also 25 I'd take you up on that.

 

But, what the hell. How can you break up with me less than 2 weeks ago and then tell me I would have been the perfect husband for you?

 

Is she saying she is now open to marriage? And why now? I've been working perfectly fine under the assumption of no remarriage for me. And she has been maintaining that same position for 11 months. Why the sudden change? Why less than 2 weeks after our only near breakup?

 

I do not understand people who swivel so easily.

 

I understand why you'd be confused, because I am too. Maybe she's trying to show you she wants to change? From my experience, after getting back together there is a bit of a rejuvenated honeymoon phase. Maybe that's influencing her to say she's ok with marriage? But why only if she was 25? In a way that's a bit of a backhanded compliment.

 

Maybe it wouldn't hurt to sit down with her and ask what she really wants and how you feel there's been conflicting signals.

[Poutrew]

Be very careful, friend. I say this the same way I'd tell a bomb demolition expert to be careful as he contemplates which wire to cut...

[TheWoman]

Perhaps the thought of losing you, made her realise how much she loves you?

 

Also saying I would have married you if i were 25, is not the same as saying I would marry you now. It is a compliment, like saying 'gee I wish Id done that with you instead of such and such, it might have worked out better'. Or I wish we had had that experience together and you were my kids father and life had been different. It is a sweet thing to say and does not necessarily at all mean I want to get married now or ever again.

 

Just a different perspective !

[TheWoman]

Also you have said she is an Avoidant, and Avoidants break up with you when they feel they are getting to close. Its a good sign! LOL.

[Gaeta]

I do not understand people who swivel so easily.

 

Yep! That's the woman you picked to be with. A woman that swivels from breaking up to mentioning marriage. How long will it take for her to go back to break up mode you think? It doesn't sound like a relationship I'd feel secure in.

[Popsicle]

This is why I stay away from people who say "I'll never get married (again)". They clearly have a lot of mental turmoil and emotional baggage and you are going to be on the receiving end of that which ever way it comes out.

 

She needs therapy.

[Jj66]

Perhaps the thought of losing you, made her realise how much she loves you?

 

Also saying I would have married you if i were 25, is not the same as saying I would marry you now. It is a compliment, like saying 'gee I wish Id done that with you instead of such and such, it might have worked out better'. Or I wish we had had that experience together and you were my kids father and life had been different. It is a sweet thing to say and does not necessarily at all mean I want to get married now or ever again.

 

Just a different perspective !

 

 

Also you have said she is an Avoidant, and Avoidants break up with you when they feel they are getting to close. Its a good sign! LOL.

 

 

Thank you for your perspective

 

I did take it as a compliment at first and that was in her tone of voice.

 

But I guess I'm guilty of interpreting her actions through my own lens. I've become much more hesitant and skeptical about everything. While I had no desire to get married before, the mere mention of the word scares me now. Lol.

 

Turns out her mother either noticed the brief relationship status change on Facebook or noticed that we no longer have it visible. She asked my gf if we had had a fight. My gf explained what had happened. Her mother told her that I am a lot like her father and she didn't need to fight with me. She gave her advice on how to handle various things without fighting. Gf did not give me too much detail and I didn't pry to get access to her playbook.

 

It's interesting that her father and I are so similar. I knew we were kind of alike in some ways when I met him. I didn't know how much. His name is also Jj. Crazy. This is about as clear cut case of seeking out a mate that reminds you of a parent as there ever was.

[elaine567]

Some women put on a big show of NOT wanting to get married as they think they are unlikely to be asked by the man they are dating. They do not want to appear like a desperate woman waiting for the ring that never comes... they want to be seen as the woman who is happy with the arrangement as SHE chooses not to get married.

 

However she often DOES want to get married and if the man follows her lead and says he NEVER wants to get married either, then she gets very upset.

YOU upset and embarrassed her here in front of your friends.

All very well for her to say half jokingly she will run if you ever proposed but quite another for you to say to your friends you definitely do not want to marry her. YOU thought you were doing the right thing to please her but...

 

She had told me a few times in our time together that if I ever proposed, she was history. Marriage came up in a conversation at a party we went to recently. Basically, people were discussing which couple among the friends would be next to get married. I made some comments poo pooing marriage a bit and saying I don't need to be married to be happy. I acknowledged that there are certain advantages that married people have because of the law and the only reason I would consider it is to take advantage of that. And that in any event I'm not getting married before my daughter graduates in 3 years. So I let our friends know that we would definitely not be next

[Jj66]

Some women put on a big show of NOT wanting to get married as they think they are unlikely to be asked by the man they are dating. They do not want to appear like a desperate woman waiting for the ring that never comes... they want to be seen as the woman who is happy with the arrangement as SHE chooses not to get married.

 

However she often DOES want to get married and if the man follows her lead and says he NEVER wants to get married either, then she gets very upset.

YOU upset and embarrassed her here in front of your friends.

All very well for her to say half jokingly she will run if you ever proposed but quite another for you to say to your friends you definitely do not want to marry her. YOU thought you were doing the right thing to please her but...

 

She put up a convincing act including refusing to raise her glass when I toasted eternal love when we were in Rome during the summer. Since Rome is the eternal city and we had just put a love lock on a bridge in Venice a few days before I thought it was an appropriate toast. She said she wasn't going to toast that and refused to raise her glass. My conclusion was that she was quite serious about not ever wanting marriage. And not even wanting forever. That came as a bit of a surprise to me. It could have hurt my feelings but I didn't let it. I guess we have different aspirations. I just pulled in my horns a little bit and stopped thinking about a long term future with her. Just like her I was just going to enjoy our time together while it lasted without thinking about a future together. I wondered why she has wanted to put the lock on the bridge though. Locking the bridge and refusing to toast seemed diametrically at odds to me. But oh well, I have no ability to understand women.

 

She has also said in front of another group of our friends (mostly hers) that we aren't ever getting married. She pointed out a very nice ring that she bought to remind herself never to get married again. She never takes it off.

 

If what I said in a group of (mostly my) friends upset and embarrassed her, then it was a direct result of everything she had told me, and more importantly everything had showed me for months prior.

 

What am I supposed to say under the circumstances? "xxxxx just wants to have fun for now and is completely against ever getting married but I hope to win her over eventually and convince her she'd be foolish not to sign up for life with me".

 

It's clear from what she said afterwards that she wasn't entirely thrilled with what I said. She didn't like hearing so clearly that I had no goal to marry her. I view it as a case of reaping what you sow. This was my first indication she was softening her stance on marriage.

 

I can perfectly correlate her changing stance on forever with another external event: she got notice that her appointment will not be renewed which means she has to find another job before summer 2018. She didn't tell me at first, but I now know the first time she expressed any insecurity with me (please don't leave me) was also the first time we saw each other after she got the news that her reappointment was being denied.

 

I think contemplating the end of our "temporary" relationship made her realize she has been lying to herself about what she wanted. She didn't just want to have fun anymore. She actually did want something with more permanence. Nobody is going to make significant career sacrifices for something they view as temporary.

[TheTraveler]

Some women put on a big show of NOT wanting to get married as they think they are unlikely to be asked by the man they are dating. They do not want to appear like a desperate woman waiting for the ring that never comes... they want to be seen as the woman who is happy with the arrangement as SHE chooses not to get married.

 

However she often DOES want to get married and if the man follows her lead and says he NEVER wants to get married either, then she gets very upset.

YOU upset and embarrassed her here in front of your friends.

All very well for her to say half jokingly she will run if you ever proposed but quite another for you to say to your friends you definitely do not want to marry her. YOU thought you were doing the right thing to please her but...

 

I agree with this

 

I've become much more hesitant and skeptical about everything.

 

You’re pulling back an assessing the situation which could possibly be drawing her back in. The honeymoon phase sounds like it’s over, hence real deep thoughts about the relationship.

 

She put up a convincing act including refusing to raise her glass when I toasted eternal love when we were in Rome during the summer. Since Rome is the eternal city and we had just put a love lock on a bridge in Venice a few days before I thought it was an appropriate toast. She said she wasn't going to toast that and refused to raise her glass. My conclusion was that she was quite serious about not ever wanting marriage. And not even wanting forever.

 

That was 8 months ago. Stop holding onto this thought