Kind of pissed off

[Jj66]

I am sorry I called you a girl earlier. I should have looked for the source of your insecurity before assuming you were just being dramatic.

 

Not a problem. I did act like a girl last night.

[Jj66]

So we know you have been dating 10 months. You are referring to this 'no thank you' incident as months ago. How long ago was it? I would like to know how long you've been carrying this.

 

This happened at the 2 month mark. I did not talk about it with her until the 4 month mark when another incident, this time in person, reminded me of it so much I had to say something.

 

I realized burying it had not been a good idea.

[Gaeta]

This happened at the 2 month mark. I did not talk about it with her until the 4 month mark when another incident, this time in person, reminded me of it so much I had to say something.

 

I realized burying it had not been a good idea.

 

It is possible she was too busy at the office to just drop everything for a mid-day coffee with you?

 

Just like in your original story, she was not free for the 6th and offered no explanation but she did have a valid explanation.

 

Most of us would offer an explanation without even thinking twice: No thank you I can't free myself right now - Sorry I can't on the 6th I got this thing with a bunch of girlfriends. In her case an explanation does not come naturally it seems ?

[Sweetfish]

Maybe the old doubts about her lack of investment came back when she did not react the way I expected? I don't know.

 

 

That evening she asked for a relationship talk where she changed her tune about walking away if I ever proposed. Her stance now is that she would consider it if the time and circumstances were right and if it were important to me because she doesn't want to lose our relationship over stubbornness about never getting married again.

 

So there you have it. Her softening her long-held anti-marriage stance and talking about moving in together tells me she is definitely invested in our relationship.

 

This fist date anniversary drunk texting will end up being just a blip on the radar.

 

 

This will not be a blip on the radar.

 

Its clear your have a vision of a relationship you see fit and her vision is different.

 

That statement she made to you was made out of guilt.. she saw right thru you when you claim you didnt need to be married.

 

You are clearly more invested and she is not... To be honest I think your don't seeing the value of your stock... its like a penny stock that keeps rising and you don't pull out because you see it rise... so you keep investing.

 

But in the long run... the stock wasn't as valuable as you thought it was and next thing you know your eatting ramon for the next year or 2.

 

You've gotten many clues every couple of months...

[Jj66]

Your digging your grave.... its a matter of time she going to test how you handle other things...

 

Just watch

 

I thought your first post was insightful. I think this one misses the mark. Maybe you can explain to me why I am wrong instead of just telling me I am.

 

How is forgetting about a conference testing me? Getting cancelled on is one of the realities of dating someone in academia. She sometimes has to cancel time together for last minute faculty meetings, student team conferences, administrative reviews, unexpected faculty committee business and the like. I knew of this hazard going into the relationship. I do not believe it is a test.

 

But suppose it is.

 

I was supposed to go to her place on Thursday because that was the only evening this week she was free but she had forgot to add this conference with one of her MBA student teams to her schedule. With this conference going from 7 to 9, I decided not to go see her. I could have gone down there to sleep with her after 10. Last time this happened she came to see me after the conference. Got to my place after 10pm. She's usually asleep by then. This time she said she couldn't come up because she has another meeting early the next morning. So, by telling her I don't want to drive down just to sleep with her, did I fail or pass this test?

 

We are leaving for a trip together from the airport near her place on the 24th. I told her I would be down there on that day as we had agreed. If she wants to see me before then she will have to come see me. I've made it clear I'm not going down there Did I fail or pass this test?

[CaliforniaGirl]

I used to wonder that. And I think it was true for the first few months. Probably 6 months. I'd feel her draw closer, then pull away, then draw closer, and pull away again, but not as far away each time. It's just 2 or 3 months ago that that I became convinced that she is invested in this as much as I am. We have been very close lately and she hasn't pulled away a bit.

 

Maybe the old doubts about her lack of investment came back when she did not react the way I expected? I don't know.

 

I do know that we had a fantastic weekend right before this happened. She talked about us moving in together when her lease is out. And she let me know again that she doesn't completely cringe at the thought of marriage anymore the way she used to. Lol.

 

She had told me a few times in our time together that if I ever proposed, she was history. Marriage came up in a conversation at a party we went to recently. Basically, people were discussing which couple among the friends would be next to get married. I made some comments poo pooing marriage a bit and saying I don't need to be married to be happy. I acknowledged that there are certain advantages that married people have because of the law and the only reason I would consider it is to take advantage of that. And that in any event I'm not getting married before my daughter graduates in 3 years. So I let our friends know that we would definitely not be next.

 

That evening she asked for a relationship talk where she changed her tune about walking away if I ever proposed. Her stance now is that she would consider it if the time and circumstances were right and if it were important to me because she doesn't want to lose our relationship over stubbornness about never getting married again.

 

So there you have it. Her softening her long-held anti-marriage stance and talking about moving in together tells me she is definitely invested in our relationship.

 

This fist date anniversary drunk texting will end up being just a blip on the radar.

 

She's REALLY confused.

 

Don't bother trying to do the "right thing" that won't tip her the wrong way or something, because that will happen independent of you. She's creating these scenarios herself ("I'll never be married" even though you didn't ask), getting terrified of them, pulling away, changing her own mind ("maybe I will get married") again entirely independent of what you're doing, then moving closer...lather, rinse, repeat.

 

I'd never want to be on that kind of a rollercoaster. I'd get ulcers from it. But if you feel the relationship is worth it, know that this will probably just keep happening and you'll never be able to be secure that her latest unilateral decision will stick.

[Jj66]

Whoa. Something is up (IMO). What on earth...? She is VERY defensive. And frankly, she was from the get-go. I did NOT think you were PA or inappropriate or pushy in any way from the beginning as you described things but automatically she clammed up defensively...now she's saying "PROOF" in all caps...I just don't know.

 

I don't want to worry you, and I'm sure you're not going to be worried based on one stranger's input on the internet anyway, but...I just don't know. I personally would be cocking an eyebrow. Something is just not right here.

 

Because in our last relationship talk I told her I wasn't happy with the amount of time we were able to spend together. She promised to make changes to come see me more.

 

But the only day she was free this week was Thursday. Thus it was the only day in the this almost 2 week period that we'd get to see each other because of my kid schedule unless she comes up while my kids are here. And she might. But I can't go there overnight when I have my kids.

 

We just agreed yesterday that she was going to come up to my place on Thursday but the only CPA meeting she could get was Friday morning. So, no big deal, we changed plans so that I was going to go down to her place. Then today she gets the email from her student team reminding her about their conference call meeting on Thursday from 7 to 9.

 

Now she is forced to bail in the whole plan to go out Thursday. The second change in less than 24 hours. And she can't see me at all this week. It doesn't look good. I think she's trying to PROVE that in spite of what it might look like she really did want to see me. She was very apologetic about it all (it's a change for her to offer explanations an apologies) and she is ok if I come to sleep at her place. I'm not crazy about that idea because I'd go down there, have sex and sleep then have to leave at the crack of dawn to go to work. There really wouldn't be enough quality time to justify the drive.

 

A similar thing happened Friday before last. She was supposed to come up to my office for lunch (and some office sex to be honest) but the administration at her university picked her represent them at a community event and she couldn't really say no. So she bailed on that and came to my house about 10pm and then stayed with me the whole weekend.

 

I believe she is feeling guilt is about her schedule changes preventing her from making the positive changes in availability that she promised me. That's why she is defensive. She doesn't want me to be upset that I'm not going to get to see her this week because "it's not her fault"

 

That's my assessment of the situation, anyway.

[Jj66]

I've been silent to her since the whatsapp text this morning saying I would see her on the 24th unless she comes up here sooner.

 

She just sent me a message saying that she is going to skip her event on Wednesday evening in order to drive up to see me tomorrow. I offered to go down there instead if it worked better for her schedule. She said no, I promised I'd come up to see you more often. I told her, great. I'm looking forward to seeing you then.

 

The Wednesday event she is skipping was with her girlfriends.

[GemmaUK]

For the short term this sounds good.

 

For the long term - nope.

Unsustainable.

She cancelled to appease you.

If I were you I would feel incredibly bad for that and incredibly controlling/needy. I would hate myself for putting this on a person I was dating.

 

My last bit of advice - don't text drunk. It makes you want to pester.

[Gaeta]

I've been silent to her since the whatsapp text this morning saying I would see her on the 24th unless she comes up here sooner.

 

She just sent me a message saying that she is going to skip her event on Wednesday evening in order to drive up to see me tomorrow. I offered to go down there instead if it worked better for her schedule. She said no, I promised I'd come up to see you more often. I told her, great. I'm looking forward to seeing you then.

 

The Wednesday event she is skipping was with her girlfriends.

 

Oh boy !

 

How do you feel about that?

[Jj66]

Oh boy !

 

How do you feel about that?

 

I guess I was hoping that's she'd be able to come up to visit at least once before the 24th but if it was going to happen it was up to her. She was booked through Thursday and I can't go visit her after Thursday because I have my kids.

 

Was it controlling to remind her that it was all up to her if we were going to see each other? She probably would have already known this if she thought about it with my kid schedule in front of her.

 

I certainly wasn't expecting her to change her existing plans. I thought maybe she'd be able to come up on the weekend and visit me and the kids.

 

If it was an event that she never skips (she probably skips 1/3 of her Wednesday event), I would give more credence to Gemma's assertion that she did it just to appease me. And might have balked at it. But if she did skip it to appease me I never asked for her to change any of her plans. That's entirely on her.

 

I definitely don't hate myself for manipulating her because I don't feel I did. I think expressing disappointment when it's a legitimate feeling is not manipulative. I think it's an emotion that needed to be shared rather than suppressed inside some stoic role of detached understanding. It is completely possible to understand something and still be disappointed.

 

I guess the best description of my feeling about this is surprise. I'm glad she's coming up. I'm a little anxious about a serious conversation I know we are going to have tomorrow.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Jj66

[Dis]

Whoa. Something is up (IMO). What on earth...? She is VERY defensive. And frankly, she was from the get-go. I did NOT think you were PA or inappropriate or pushy in any way from the beginning as you described things but automatically she clammed up defensively...now she's saying "PROOF" in all caps...I just don't know.

 

I don't want to worry you, and I'm sure you're not going to be worried based on one stranger's input on the internet anyway, but...I just don't know. I personally would be cocking an eyebrow. Something is just not right here.

 

It wouldn't be not wanting to celebrate the actual date that would get me, it would be the immediately clammed-up, defensive attitude.

 

I mean if it were only a matter of her not being so interested in an "anniversary" that's not an official legal one, I'd have expected something like, "Aw...I already made plans with Girlfriend X. We're going to go see Show X. We'll see one another on the 6th like we planned."

 

Not "It's top-secret 'girl' stuff that I refuse to divulge to you because, well...I don't know. Just because more mystery-add mystery here-sprinkle a dash of defensiveness and HERE'S PROOF that I'M NOT LYING!! Dag-nab it." (Okay, that was ad-libbed a little.)

 

Because I mean...what the hell?

 

If I were seeing someone for a full year, he said something cute but not something as important to me as "I was hoping we'd celebrate the anniversary of the day we met'" or whatever, I'd not be defensive, silent, and mysterious. I'd just TELL the poor dude that I was doing X that day. Why would that be hard? At all?

 

Something's just not on, as my British friend used to say.

 

She's REALLY confused.

 

Don't bother trying to do the "right thing" that won't tip her the wrong way or something, because that will happen independent of you. She's creating these scenarios herself ("I'll never be married" even though you didn't ask), getting terrified of them, pulling away, changing her own mind ("maybe I will get married") again entirely independent of what you're doing, then moving closer...lather, rinse, repeat.

 

I'd never want to be on that kind of a rollercoaster. I'd get ulcers from it. But if you feel the relationship is worth it, know that this will probably just keep happening and you'll never be able to be secure that her latest unilateral decision will stick.

 

I agree with California girl's opinions

 

Something seems off here, you drove an hour to see her and she blew you off with no apology (she was actually rude about it). Her pushing and pulling. Her apathetic and dismissive response to you when you said you had something nice planned for your anniversary

 

She seems very avoidant, like she doesnt want to get close...arms length distance

 

If my bf drove an hour to see me, or planned something for us for an important date...you better believe I'd be grateful and reciprocate his efforts

 

I could never be in a relatioships with an avoidant person, my ex was somewhat avoidant in the beginning and it was like torture. I was always worried, over thinking, trying to hard to get him to bring his walls down. Turns out he was cheating (for most of the relationship) so that was part of his elusiveness but even he wasnt...I would never do it again

 

I really hope this works our for you Jj. You seem so sweet and considerate. Just monitor this situation and her behavior. If shes still making you guess and worry....dont let that go on for too long...its not fair to you

[Jj66]

Thanks to everyone for their comments and advice both supportive and critical. I have a lot to think about and feelings to evaluate.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Thanks to everyone for their comments and advice both supportive and critical. I have a lot to think about and feelings to evaluate.

 

You're welcome. You seem like a truly decent guy and I am hoping for the best for you.

[Dis]

Thanks to everyone for their comments and advice both supportive and critical. I have a lot to think about and feelings to evaluate.

 

Trust your gut! It never lies

 

Good luck Jj!

[OatsAndHall]

A major part of the problem is communicating via text when you're upset. There's no tone and it can be misconstrued in so many ways... My GF frustrated the hell out of me last weekend and she wanted to chat about it via text. I shot her a message stating that I loved her but that I was angry and that I needed to calm down. I told her I would give her a call that afternoon to discuss the situation further.

[Poutrew]

You are here posting about this because your gut is telling you something is wrong. From where I am sitting, this woman seems to like being in charge of things, and you are one of those things... She appeases you when she has to, but on other occasions, she can be as blunt as a business manager delivering orders to underlings. She has something planned, which is why she told you 'no', but whatever it really is, you will never find out unless you go secret squirrel on her. And I think you may not like the answers.... because it will force you to face just how extensively she has manipulated you into being her docile 'man'. The main clue to me is when she realized how she overplayed her hand and threw you a bone RE: Thursday night...Sorry, OP, but if this were my gf, I'd have bailed after the first time it happened... but even then, she played you like a roman fiddle...

[Jj66]

She just got off work and texted me. She absolutely refused to talk by phone. She also refused to answer any questions. Just ignored me. I said it seems you don't want to communicate right now. So goodnight, my love. Sweet dreams. She said goodnight, my sweet love.

 

Then she texted me that she would meet me at a bar with a group of friends near my house tomorrow. I thought about it and I told her I wanted to change that plan. That I thought we needed to meet in person to discuss things without alcohol before going out. I asked her to meet me at my house first. She said no, she would meet me at the bar. I said I don't like your avoidant behavior, xxxxxx. I am no more able to go to the bar with my friends without talking to her first than you were able to hang out with her friends with me last summer after our previous fight. I value our relationship so I refuse to sweep things under the rug. I will not meet you at the bar before talking so don't even bother coming up here if you're not willing to talk. She said, as you wish.

 

I told her she had my number when she was ready to talk. Then I deleted whatsapp and Facebook from my phone so I wouldn't be tempted to reach out to her by stupid text messages.

 

So, I guess we could be broken up now. I just got notified on my tablet that she replied to her own comment on my profile pic. She posted up the selfie she took of us on my first date and added the caption "it's been fun"

 

I feel like I have been punched in the gut.

[Ronnys93]

I'm sorry Jj66 Definitely not how I wanted to see this turn out. However, it does confirm the bad feeling you were having all along.

[Dis]

She just got off work and texted me. She absolutely refused to talk by phone. She also refused to answer any questions. Just ignored me. I said it seems you don't want to communicate right now. So goodnight, my love. Sweet dreams. She said goodnight, my sweet love.

 

Then she texted me that she would meet me at a bar with a group of friends near my house tomorrow. I thought about it and I told her I wanted to change that plan. That I thought we needed to meet in person to discuss things without alcohol before going out. I asked her to meet me at my house first. She said no, she would meet me at the bar. I said I don't like your avoidant behavior, xxxxxx. I am no more able to go to the bar with my friends without talking to her first than you were able to hang out with her friends with me last summer after our previous fight. I value our relationship so I refuse to sweep things under the rug. I will not meet you at the bar before talking so don't even bother coming up here if you're not willing to talk. She said, as you wish.

 

I told her she had my number when she was ready to talk. Then I deleted whatsapp and Facebook from my phone so I wouldn't be tempted to reach out to her by stupid text messages.

 

So, I guess we could be broken up now. I just got notified on my tablet that she replied to her own comment on my profile pic. She posted up the selfie she took of us on my first date and added the caption "it's been fun"

 

I feel like I have been punched in the gut.

 

Ohh Jj I'm so sorry

 

I dont think her heart was in it from the get go...and I think, deep down, you knew that

 

Its a strange thing, when relationships break down we tend to try to sugar coat how bad things are...I think it hurts too much to be honest sometimes

 

You obvi feel devasted...I dont blame you

 

Tbh, I really dont like the way she handles herself. Shes calling the shots, being dismissive, avoidant, sometimes even rude....and it seems she feels entitled to act this way

 

Theres no fixing that kind of personality. Your resentments and worries would just continue to grow and then YOU would be the one who walked away...gladly

 

I'm glad you deleted those apps...thats a great start. I think you handled yourself super well considering her dismissive and even cruel behavior

 

What are your plans now? Lay low?

[Jj66]

Yep. Just lay low.

[Space Ritual]

Too much drama for something that is almost 2 months down the road.

 

Way too much drama and surely not worth almost 6 pages of it.

 

You've probably overthought yourself out of relationships in the past, and at this rate you'll do it again.

[fireflywy]

Yep. Just lay low.

 

Guy, I dated a woman like yours once. She also had avoidance traits. Here's what I see in your threads:

 

1. While it's commendable that you like to express your feelings and communicate, your questions about how you approached things (once again, commendable) are indicative that you're trying way too hard. You're doing it to be the good and nice guy. Sometimes you gotta put a woman on edge, give her the fog of war and let HER enquire why you dont react or say something otherwise. Always saying that you need to talk, probably got old to her. (Don't use this as a bargain to get her back or even remind her of this! This is for you; not a box she can check off to justify her cold reactions to you.)

 

Now being a nice guy isn't bad in and of itself, but in the act of doing nice, ice guys often get frustrated when they don't get the returns for their investment. This becomes worse because when they finally GET something back, they put too much value in it and give it more meaning then they should have. Beware of that trap in thinking that the little they do give you is a full course meal when it's actually just a small snack.

 

2. Her email of "it was fun" means that she doesn't care. I heard the "well we had a good time" on my way out the door and that was pretty much it as far as HER reaching out. All of my thoughts about being the good guy, after a year and half meant squat. The lesson here is that if she said that to you, and while it hurts like hell.... SHE AIN'T WORTH IT

 

3. Don't call her, don't text, don't bargain, don't apologize (for anything), don't beg. Take stock with yourself but don't feed her by contacting. It won't work with a woman like this (other women maybe, but not her). I did that for a week after and it was like throwing a rock at the moon and hoping to knock it out of the sky. You will save yourself much heart ache, pain, and self respect if you just let her WALK with that BS she sent you.

 

No amount of beauty, her success, or skewed snack and breadcrumbs we reflect on is worth trying to woo her back. If she can't apprequate how you've treated her now and fight for what she's losing, she never will and doesn't deserve to have you.

 

Good luck.

[Popsicle]

I haven't read this thread since around post 30, but in reading the last couple of replies, I see that there has been a break up? Good lord, what happened??? Just yesterday I saw a happy, almost perfect, couple who had a misunderstanding about a date and now we've progressed to a breakup? What in the world...? I will have to read to catch up to understand.

[hippychick3]

I'm sorry to hear this, JJ. The relationship did seem a bit imbalanced. She was not as invested as you were. It's clear you are a sweet and sentimental guy and she wasn't appreciative of that. I thought you did come across as passive aggressive and a bit needy with the insistence of seeing one another on the dating anniversary. But, her cold and rude answers were inexcusable.

 

Whatever you do, don't reach out to her again. Wishing you the best.