Low sex partner in affair. Fresh d-day

[Overtaxed]

Maybe I've missed something, and I apologize if I have, but may I ask why you are discussing children at just a month past d-day? It seems there are a lot of issues to be tackled right now before whether to do IVF or not.

 

I was a WW. And when d-day happened the kid discussion was immediately tabled. TBH we didn't start truly talking about it until probably 18 months after d-day. We had a baby 2.5 years after d-day. Having a baby is no joke...it puts A LOT of stress on the relationship, and our baby had some minor issues. I'd done a lot of work on myself, and my H too, and we got through that first couple of years. I imagine IVF is also very stressful on a relationship...do you really want to add that to the mix at this time?

 

P.S. My d-day was in my late 30s so I totally understand if it's a ticking clock situation. We still tabled it anyway, knowing that neither of us was in a place to bring another person into our relationship at that time.

 

Discussing it, not doing anything about it. But I sincerely believe that the "kid issue" was a big cause of the A, so it needs to be talked about if we intend to stay together. We're not making plans to have them, or heading to the IVF clinic, that's for sure. My stance hasn't changed on children and she needs to understand that the possibility of us having a biological child is very, very low, even if we did go down the IVF route a few years from now (especially because, as you point out, ticking clock).

[S2B]

The kid issue was not the cause of the affair.

 

Come on now, be honest.

 

The cause of the affair is within the cheater - or lack of being within. Too much ego. Not enough integrity and self esteem...

 

Whether to have kids or not - a choice could have been made to divorce if it was a disagreement on a big issue.

[elaine567]

You are both skirting around the subject.

She is scared to ask you outright "Are WE going to try for kids?" and YOU are scared to tell her "NO, because I don't want kids".

Instead she ducks out of the issue with waffle and you baffle her with logic

Forget about what went on in the past, this is the here and now, this is crunch time.

 

YOU are both doing the "dance", as both of you know if you voice your real standpoints here, the marriage is essentially over.

 

YOU are not willing to "try" and she is not willing to not have kids (or at least have a damned good attempt at having them anyway)

 

Yes, you can both go lalalala with your fingers in your ears and have "fantastic sex" and move to a wonderful new house, but nothing will go away here...

[Weezy1973]

OT do you not see how messed up your wife is? Forget the affair for a second.

 

Your wife at her core wants kids, has always wanted kids, comes from a family that values family and having kids.

 

And then she chose to be with a man that doesn't want kids. And by the way, none of that is your fault. You've been completely honest with her. What an emotionally healthy person does is leave that relationship and find someone that also wants kids.

 

What your wife chose to do is messed up.

[oldshirt]

So, asked her about IVF the other night (does she really want to do it) and got a confusing answer. She said, paraphrasing, "I'd do it if you wanted me to do it". I'm not really sure what to make of this. I don't think I'd ever want anyone to do IVF for me; I know what's involved in the process and it's terribly emotionally and physically draining. Even if I was dying to have kids, I'm not sure I could "put that" on someone else, they are the person who'd have to go through this, not me. Sure, I'd have to pay for it (unless I was married to someone wealthy), but that's not the "hard" part.

 

I'm kind of seeing this as a "non-answer" to the question. This can't be my decision. It's not my responsibility to determine if anyone else has kids, or if anyone else goes through IVF. She's said many times she wanted "us" to make this decision, but, IMHO, this isn't an "us" decision. It's individual, do you (wife) want to have children and are you willing to do what it takes? And then the same question to me. I have trouble seeing this as a decision that's totally intertwined with the other person. What she said to me (and has said for years) is that she doesn't what "children" she want "my children" or, for adoption, she wants "us to have children". I can see what she's getting at here, but, frankly, I think this is really rare and I'm not sure many couples really feel this way before kids. Most husbands I know were pretty ambivalent about kids before they came along. It was typically the wife who "really wanted them" and talked the husband into it (now, this is not universally true, I do have one guy friend who was totally into it and couldn't wait to have them, but that's rare compared to the the "most husbands" that I describe above).

 

Also, she said that what she really wanted from me around kids was to "try". I'm also not sure what this means. Funny version, we can "try" a few times a day for the rest of our relationship. I'm totally on board with that! And she might actually mean this, I've always been very cautious about kids, even with her. Putting is bluntly, even though she has a very slim chance and I have a very slim chance, I can count on one hand the number of times I'd orgasm inside of her over the course of our marriage. I just never did it, not with her and not with other women because I was so terrified of that 1 in a million shot. So, if this is what she means when she says "try", I can (and have been) do that for her. But to me, "try" is something else, we both know she needs another endo surgery (it's back and worse than ever). And I need to get on hormones (at best) or look at some sort of procedure (surgery) to increase my sperm count to have a shot at it. Is this what trying is? Or is trying IVF? IDK, I'm going to ask her though. Because, statistically speaking, having an orgasm inside her, while "trying", is about as likely to get her pregnant as flapping my arms is likely to let me fly around my neighborhood. Even saying "We can do 1 IVF cycle" isn't really trying, it's 90% likely that would not work (one cycle). It's not really "trying" when you know it's not going to work, is it? Or is it just a mental thing? "He's open to the idea"? Very confused about this, but she's said this several times over the years, so I need to get to the bottom of what "try" means to her.

 

Finally, she cried a lot the night before last. I think there are 2 things going on here, the reality of what she's done, and the reality that she's likely not going to have her own biological children. The 2nd part, I get it, it's a huge decision and has a massive impact on your life forever (as does having children). It's why I was so crystal clear with her before we got married, I knew she was "signing up" for something that a lot of women wouldn't want and needed to be sure she realized "This wedding means you most likely won't have your own children". She cried then too, but (obviously) we moved forward from it.

 

Things are going well. We were supposed to have our first MC appt yesterday, but we got there and the psych had screwed up the appt time. And also appeared to be batcrap crazy. <sigh>. So we are trying to schedule again, but we move to the new house/state in under 2 weeks; so we'd only be able to get 1 session in before we move. Kind of seems like a waste, but I'd still like to do it if we can (and obviously do it when we get to the new location). Sex has been fantastic. Not sure that matters, but I did want to throw that in here in case it has some bearing on the process.

 

 

TLDR;

 

But I read enough to see you asked about IVF and you were perplexed by her answer.

 

This reminds me of a Jenifer Aniston movie some years ago where she and her BF were having severe problems and she was wanting to dump him and they were arguing.

 

At one point she says that his lacking of housekeeping was one of the factors.

 

To which he responds - "oh ok, so you want me to clean the house."

 

To which she replies to that - "no I don't want you to clean the house. I want you to WANT to clean the house."

 

I see the issue with the IVF and child bearing etc as the same thing here. You just need to let that go and not bring it up anymore.

 

She knows you don't want kids. She knows it is not a desire or a yearning or a passion or a value of yours. She knows you do not feel an emptiness and sorrow in your heart because you/she can't have them.

 

You do not share the same yearning and desire that she does and it is not a shared experience for her. So whenever you mention it and try to apply logic and reason, it buries the knife deeper and gives it another twist.

 

The reason she give double-sided answers is because she knows you are just trying to appease her and that your isn't really in it and so therefor it will put the responsibility of your frustration and exasperation onto her.

 

You think you are trying to be negotiable and accommodating, but in reality you are just putting more burden on her.

Edited February 22, 2017 by oldshirt

[Weezy1973]

The reason she give double-sided answers is because she knows you are just trying to appease her and that your isn't really in it and so therefor it will put the responsibility of your frustration and exasperation onto her.

 

You think you are trying to be negotiable and accommodating, but in reality you are just putting more burden on her.

 

I actually think he's trying to use logic to convince her to stop wanting kids.

 

"You know that thing that you want and is really important to you? Could you just stop wanting that? That would be great..."

[oldshirt]

My stance hasn't changed on children and she needs to understand that the possibility of us having a biological child is very, very low, even if we did go down the IVF route a few years from now (especially because, as you point out, ticking clock).

 

You've got to stop this!!!!

 

You cannot apply reason and logic to an emotional and instinctual thing.

 

You can show her every fertility textbook ever written and she is not going to stop yearning for and wanting a child even though she can't have one.

 

You do not share her yearning and her desire for kids so it is not a shared experience for her and even though in your mind you are trying to help, you are making it worse and digging yourself into a deeper hole.

 

You two are mismatched and disconnected on this topic and there is no middle ground and no reconciliation for it. Stop trying to fix this because it can't be fixed. She yearns for children/ you don't. There is no common ground here so stop trying to flip off her maternal desire switches with all the logical and rational reasons why you can't have kids.

[oldshirt]

I actually think he's trying to use logic to convince her to stop wanting kids.

 

..."

 

You and I were cross-posting at the same time.

 

Yes he is and it is just digging himself into a deeper and deeper hole and he just doesn't get that.

[Overtaxed]

I actually think he's trying to use logic to convince her to stop wanting kids.

 

"You know that thing that you want and is really important to you? Could you just stop wanting that? That would be great..."

 

Guys.. What do you suggest I do here? I see a lot of posts, not a whole lot of answers.

 

I've told her for years; if you want to have kids, don't marry me (or divorce me). I told her that after d-day. I continue to tell her that because, with me, it's unlikely she could have kids, and, as has been pointed out, I don't want to go through the IVF process. Without me, it's about 100% certain she cannot have kids.

 

I have a lot of things I want and are really important to me. Yeah, I give them up. That's what marriage is, right? I want to quit my job and hike the PCT for a year, it's important to me, but I can't do it because my wife doesn't want to and we'd have to sell everything we own to finance it. So I give it up. I'm not sure what exactly you suggest as the right answer to this. Sure I can leave (as can she). And she won't have kids. Or I can stay. And we won't have kids. At the end of the day, unless she finds "Mr. Moneybags who desperately wants kids" AND does so in the next 3 years, AND is physically capable of bearing them (that's still in question)...

 

So, operative question, what would you have me do with this information?

[Overtaxed]

You've got to stop this!!!!

 

You cannot apply reason and logic to an emotional and instinctual thing.

 

You can show her every fertility textbook ever written and she is not going to stop yearning for and wanting a child even though she can't have one.

 

You do not share her yearning and her desire for kids so it is not a shared experience for her and even though in your mind you are trying to help, you are making it worse and digging yourself into a deeper hole.

 

You two are mismatched and disconnected on this topic and there is no middle ground and no reconciliation for it. Stop trying to fix this because it can't be fixed. She yearns for children/ you don't. There is no common ground here so stop trying to flip off her maternal desire switches with all the logical and rational reasons why you can't have kids.

 

Bolded..

 

Of course you can. We all do it every single day. "Reason and logic" are the reason that guy doesn't jump across the boardroom table and beat you to a pulp for insulting him. Reason and logic are the reason that married men don't sleep with any woman who's willing. Because our (men's) basic instinct is to "spread seed" as wide and far as possible. But it's totally reasonable that we override our prime directive, but NOT for a woman to do the same thing?

 

I can stop talking to her about having kids, if that's what you're trying to say. I can drop it entirely. But is that the right answer? Do nothing, she winds up without a child and miserable for the rest of her life? The right answer to me is to figure out "how much do you want this" and then try to make a decision for both of us. And yes, it's a balance, how much do you want kids on one hand compared to how much you want to be married on the other. And there's no guarantee on either! Leave tomorrow, never have a kid. Or choose to stay, and we get divorced in a year because I can't get over the A. Or in 5 years, because of some other reason.

 

IDK, what I'm really trying to help her do is make a decision. Leave/stay. Just don't stay and be miserable because we can't/don't have kids. And don't leave and be miserable because you can't find the right guy in time and you can't/don't have kids. Just not sure how to else to proceed.

[Overtaxed]

You are both skirting around the subject.

She is scared to ask you outright "Are WE going to try for kids?" and YOU are scared to tell her "NO, because I don't want kids".

Instead she ducks out of the issue with waffle and you baffle her with logic

Forget about what went on in the past, this is the here and now, this is crunch time.

 

YOU are both doing the "dance", as both of you know if you voice your real standpoints here, the marriage is essentially over.

 

YOU are not willing to "try" and she is not willing to not have kids (or at least have a damned good attempt at having them anyway)

 

Yes, you can both go lalalala with your fingers in your ears and have "fantastic sex" and move to a wonderful new house, but nothing will go away here...

 

I am not at all scared to tell her "No, because I don't want kids". I've said exactly that to her. I've told her, in no uncertain terms, that I will not do IVF. Which is the next step in "trying". Can we have unprotected sex? Yes, we can. But it's NOT going to result in a child. So, you can call that "trying" (and maybe that's what my W wants), but I'm more of the "if I try to do something, I'm gonna do it" camp. Which means IVF. And is a "No" for me. And she knows that. So, what else can I say to her beyond that?

[ShatteredLady]

I'm interested...

 

Please don't answer with a "but...", just a very simple answer...

 

If, before the affair, she said "I desperately want a baby WITH you. It the most important thing in the world to me. I NEED us to be parents & I will go through anything for it. Will you adopt or go through IVF or whatever. WILL YOU DO THAT FOR US?" What would your answer be?

[Overtaxed]

OT do you not see how messed up your wife is? Forget the affair for a second.

 

Your wife at her core wants kids, has always wanted kids, comes from a family that values family and having kids.

 

And then she chose to be with a man that doesn't want kids. And by the way, none of that is your fault. You've been completely honest with her. What an emotionally healthy person does is leave that relationship and find someone that also wants kids.

 

What your wife chose to do is messed up.

 

So, I'm going to respond delicately here because I suspect this is gonna get me beat to death by some other posters, but.. Here goes.

 

I'm really NOT sure that my wife wants kids (more correctly, her own kids) when she looks down the path of what that means. I think there's a decent chance that she wants me to say "No" to IVF because, in her heart, she doesn't really want to do it. The sacrifices we'd have to make, emotional, physically, financially and professionally (for her, not for me), I'm not 100% convinced that she really wants me to say yes. What's clear is that she wants to talk about it, and wants to tell other people that she "would consider IVF", but I'm just not 100% convinced that she really "wants to do IVF".

 

We had, in the middle of 2016, a huge financial windfall that's probably a one time event for me. Enough that we really did have the money to consider IVF. But, instead of that, we bought a house. NOT the house that I wanted (I already had that house), but the house that she wanted; her dream home. And then we spent the rest of that windfall totally renovating that house to be exactly what she wanted (and I wanted, but, honestly, I would have moved into the house as it was and been happy, she really wanted to take it from "nice" to "WOW").

 

My point in telling this story; if you really wanted to do IVF, wouldn't you look at a windfall like that as "your shot" to do it? Instead, she chose to buy a new house, and then chose to spend a ton of money to work on that house. Never even mentioned IVF/kids.

 

Now, I could be totally off base here, but I think she puts a lot of stock in being able to "blame me" for the reason she doesn't have kids. I think there's a ton of pent up emotional stuff surrounding children for her and, her actions to date have told me a very different story than her words. Her words are "I want kids" but her actions are "I love the life we're leading and want it to continue". Even the discussions about where we'd have to cut back, she oftentimes would tell me "You're being too extreme" (and maybe I was) with the financial cutbacks we'd have to make. But, even if you believe that, there's no doubt we'd have to make some VERY significant changes to our lifestyle. And instead of saying "Yes, I understand" she'd fight me about it and make it into a "deal breaker" for having kids.

 

Again, I could be totally off base here. But in some ways, to me, her actions are like the guy who always says "I'd love to go skydiving". Never stops talking about it, even though he's never done it. Then, suddenly, a guy overhears him and says "We're going in tomorrow, we have a spare chute and an instructor with us and room for one more, want to come?". And the guy who you'd think from his words couldn't wait for the opportunity to skydive responds with "No thanks, I have to mow the lawn tomorrow morning". Well then, you don't really want to go skydiving, you want to TALK about it! I know, it's a poor analogy, but I do think it does expose some of the way that, at least I feel, my wife reacts during discussions about children.

[Sioned]

Guys.. What do you suggest I do here? I see a lot of posts, not a whole lot of answers.

 

I've told her for years; if you want to have kids, don't marry me (or divorce me). I told her that after d-day. I continue to tell her that because, with me, it's unlikely she could have kids, and, as has been pointed out, I don't want to go through the IVF process. Without me, it's about 100% certain she cannot have kids.

 

 

Without you - it is actually about 90% certain she COULD have children. With you - it is 100% certain that you will not give her children, either biologically through no fault of your own, but more importantly - because you just 100% totally refuse to have any part of having children. (And you have every right to feel that way by the way!)

 

You are still - despite several posts telling you otherwise - claiming that you are are her only hope of having children because you are the only one who can or will pay for it (but you won't). This is patently untrue. Many single women go on to pay for their own fertility treatments, and while it may be a tough road, it certainly isn't impossible.

 

So - what should you do?

 

YOU divorce HER.

 

She cheated on you. She wants something very badly that you 100% do not want and will not give her under any circumstances, and you insist it is all up to her to get on board on with that or leave. I don't see how either of you can be truly happy with this huge wall sitting between you.

 

I wish it were otherwise and there was a way through, but I don't think there is

[oldshirt]

Guys.. What do you suggest I do here? I see a lot of posts, not a whole lot of answers.

 

I've told her for years; if you want to have kids, don't marry me (or divorce me). I told her that after d-day. I continue to tell her that because, with me, it's unlikely she could have kids, and, as has been pointed out, I don't want to go through the IVF process. Without me, it's about 100% certain she cannot have kids.

 

I have a lot of things I want and are really important to me. Yeah, I give them up. That's what marriage is, right? I want to quit my job and hike the PCT for a year, it's important to me, but I can't do it because my wife doesn't want to and we'd have to sell everything we own to finance it. So I give it up. I'm not sure what exactly you suggest as the right answer to this. Sure I can leave (as can she). And she won't have kids. Or I can stay. And we won't have kids. At the end of the day, unless she finds "Mr. Moneybags who desperately wants kids" AND does so in the next 3 years, AND is physically capable of bearing them (that's still in question)...

 

So, operative question, what would you have me do with this information?

 

The part of this you are not getting is that she may be happier and better off with someone that wants kids and will do the shots and will spank into a cup and will sell his blood and live in a cardboard box to scrounge up the funds------ even if he is as sterile as she is.

 

Even if biological children still aren't in the cards, it will be a yearning and passion they share. Even if it can't happen, it would be someone that would cry and mope around the house with her and commisearate with her. It would be someone that would share and experience her pain alongside her and not show her on page # 124 of "the Atlas of Fertility" where it says conception isn't possible then heads off to play golf with a spring in his step and a look of relief on his face.

 

And then there is the whole other issue of adoption, but since that hasn't been mentioned for 30some pages, let's not go there.

 

On paper, you two never should have had a 4th date, let alone gotten married. You are incompatible in so many fundamental areas (children, religion, sex, life goals etc)

 

There is no answer here. There is no end-all/be-all solution that is going to make everyone blissful and happy.

 

There is only how much pain and discordance are both willing to live with and which one of you capitulates the most and endures the most pain.

[hestheone66]

Hi, I've read all the pages.

 

The ONLY logical choice is divorce.

 

You know you'll be fine after a healing process.

 

She's had depression and been medicated and it's normal for you to be concerned about her mental health.

 

In life we don't have a crystal ball to know for certain how things will pan out...

 

You seem not to want to be the 'bad guy' for being the one to decide divorce.. you know it's the only answer that makes any sense.

[Overtaxed]

I'm interested...

 

Please don't answer with a "but...", just a very simple answer...

 

If, before the affair, she said "I desperately want a baby WITH you. It the most important thing in the world to me. I NEED us to be parents & I will go through anything for it. Will you adopt or go through IVF or whatever. WILL YOU DO THAT FOR US?" What would your answer be?

 

If that's all she said, my answer would have been "No".

 

If she wanted to talk about it, and came to understand the financial reality of what it would mean for us and STILL wanted it, my answer would have been "Yes".

 

I know you don't want a long answer, but I do feel I need to explain a little bit. Because, I feel that if I'd answered "Yes" to the first question there would be an expectation set that "lifestyle won't change". We'd be at the car dealer in 3 months buying another uber-expensive car. And saying "We can't afford this because of the IVF/baby/etc" would have been met with anger.

 

My fundamental problem with kids has always been that I have conditions. We need to scale back our lifestyle, not assume that I can make more money and everything is just "gonna work out". We need to keep our relationship, both sexual and the "fun" we have together alive. We need to not become what most of my friends are, a father who can't stand being around the mother, a dead relationship that's kept breathing only for the sake of the children. And these conditions don't seem, to me, to be unreasonable (probably because they're mine), but, to her, she's aghast that I'd say things like this. She really believes, and want's me to believe, "it'll just work out". That's not how I operate. I plan. I save. I work towards goals, I don't just expect them to happen. And I felt that we needed to be on the same page on what the "plan" would look like before we started down this path. That's where it went off the tracks, we could never get there.

[Overtaxed]

Without you - it is actually about 90% certain she COULD have children. With you - it is 100% certain that you will not give her children, either biologically through no fault of your own, but more importantly - because you just 100% totally refuse to have any part of having children. (And you have every right to feel that way by the way!)

 

You are still - despite several posts telling you otherwise - claiming that you are are her only hope of having children because you are the only one who can or will pay for it (but you won't). This is patently untrue. Many single women go on to pay for their own fertility treatments, and while it may be a tough road, it certainly isn't impossible.

 

So - what should you do?

 

YOU divorce HER.

 

She cheated on you. She wants something very badly that you 100% do not want and will not give her under any circumstances, and you insist it is all up to her to get on board on with that or leave. I don't see how either of you can be truly happy with this huge wall sitting between you.

 

I wish it were otherwise and there was a way through, but I don't think there is

 

Man, does the crap never stop for the BS? Not only do you get to help your WS heal, but you also get the fun of being the person to divorce them so that they can go on to lead the life that they want?

 

Why is everyone so convinced that my wife (or women in general) have no agency. She knows where the attorney's office is. She knows what the chances are of us having kids, and she knows what her chances are alone. Why in the heck is it on me to make this decision for her? I'm not saying your wrong, BTW, but blowing off some steam here. I just don't see how this falls in my court.

 

If she wants a D, she should ask for one, not have me "decide it for her". Or, I guess she can just pick back up with the AP, and then I'll make the decision for her. And maybe that's really what she wanted all along, to blow up our marriage so that I'd D her (which was suggested many pages back by another poster, and, in some ways, does make sense)?

[oldshirt]

And with all this talk of infertility and kids and IVF, that still doesn't negate or justify or eliminate the fact she had sex with another man. Numerous times. In your house.

 

She rode another man like a stolen horse after many years of unsatisfactory sex life with you and you are having a heart to heart with her about the cost and labor of IVF.

 

Who does that???????????????? :-O

 

This is toxic.

 

This is pushing you both to the point of madness.

 

I'm not trying to put you down or anything. Just pointing out the obvious that this whole thing is wacky.

[AnneP]

So, I'm going to respond delicately here because I suspect this is gonna get me beat to death by some other posters, but.. Here goes.

 

I'm really NOT sure that my wife wants kids (more correctly, her own kids) when she looks down the path of what that means. I think there's a decent chance that she wants me to say "No" to IVF because, in her heart, she doesn't really want to do it. The sacrifices we'd have to make, emotional, physically, financially and professionally (for her, not for me), I'm not 100% convinced that she really wants me to say yes. What's clear is that she wants to talk about it, and wants to tell other people that she "would consider IVF", but I'm just not 100% convinced that she really "wants to do IVF".

 

We had, in the middle of 2016, a huge financial windfall that's probably a one time event for me. Enough that we really did have the money to consider IVF. But, instead of that, we bought a house. NOT the house that I wanted (I already had that house), but the house that she wanted; her dream home. And then we spent the rest of that windfall totally renovating that house to be exactly what she wanted (and I wanted, but, honestly, I would have moved into the house as it was and been happy, she really wanted to take it from "nice" to "WOW").

 

My point in telling this story; if you really wanted to do IVF, wouldn't you look at a windfall like that as "your shot" to do it? Instead, she chose to buy a new house, and then chose to spend a ton of money to work on that house. Never even mentioned IVF/kids.

 

Now, I could be totally off base here, but I think she puts a lot of stock in being able to "blame me" for the reason she doesn't have kids. I think there's a ton of pent up emotional stuff surrounding children for her and, her actions to date have told me a very different story than her words. Her words are "I want kids" but her actions are "I love the life we're leading and want it to continue". Even the discussions about where we'd have to cut back, she oftentimes would tell me "You're being too extreme" (and maybe I was) with the financial cutbacks we'd have to make. But, even if you believe that, there's no doubt we'd have to make some VERY significant changes to our lifestyle. And instead of saying "Yes, I understand" she'd fight me about it and make it into a "deal breaker" for having kids.

 

Again, I could be totally off base here. But in some ways, to me, her actions are like the guy who always says "I'd love to go skydiving". Never stops talking about it, even though he's never done it. Then, suddenly, a guy overhears him and says "We're going in tomorrow, we have a spare chute and an instructor with us and room for one more, want to come?". And the guy who you'd think from his words couldn't wait for the opportunity to skydive responds with "No thanks, I have to mow the lawn tomorrow morning". Well then, you don't really want to go skydiving, you want to TALK about it! I know, it's a poor analogy, but I do think it does expose some of the way that, at least I feel, my wife reacts during discussions about children.

 

 

I think you may be right about her not wanting to go down the IVF road because it's emotionally, physically, and financially taxing and there is no guarantee that it will ever work which results in even more frustration and pain, not to mention "wasted money."

 

There is someone who I am very close to. There was a lot of pressure and questions put on her about when she would have kids. She blamed it on her endometriosis. Her husband really wanted kids. She scheduled an appointment with a fertility specialist and started hormones. There was also an attempt to fertilize her egg using his sperm. The first time it didn't take. She told her husband she needed time before trying this again. In the meantime, she had a surgery which caused her to never be able to carry children. Her husband is clueless about this and STILL holds hope for a child of their own one day.

 

She didn't want to lose her lifestyle. Didn't want to trade her days spent at the nail or hair salon to raise kids. Didn't want to have to wake up before noon if she didn't feel like it. She's a wife who doesn't work and her husband has provided her with anything and everything she wants.

 

She's now in her mid 40's and has re-written history to: It just wasn't in the cards. I cannot carry children.

 

 

Maybe your wife doesn't want to sacrifice so much when there is no guarantee for any ROI.

[Overtaxed]

And with all this talk of infertility and kids and IVF, that still doesn't negate or justify or eliminate the fact she had sex with another man. Numerous times. In your house.

 

She rode another man like a stolen horse after many years of unsatisfactory sex life with you and you are having a heart to heart with her about the cost and labor of IVF.

 

Who does that???????????????? :-O

 

This is toxic.

 

This is pushing you both to the point of madness.

 

I'm not trying to put you down or anything. Just pointing out the obvious that this whole thing is wacky.

 

No it does not. But that did not happen in a vacuum. And there's no reason to focus on that if we intend to R, because, frankly, nothing can change it.

 

What I'm focusing on is the REASON that stolen horse was ridden in my house (injecting some comedy here). That's the fundamental issue if R is on the table, not what actually happened. No amount of wishing will make that "unhappen". So it's just a question of moving forward, either apart or together, and what that looks like in both scenarios.

[Overtaxed]

I think you may be right about her not wanting to go down the IVF road because it's emotionally, physically, and financially taxing and there is no guarantee that it will ever work which results in even more frustration and pain, not to mention "wasted money."

 

There is someone who I am very close to. There was a lot of pressure and questions put on her about when she would have kids. She blamed it on her endometriosis. Her husband really wanted kids. She scheduled an appointment with a fertility specialist and started hormones. There was also an attempt to fertilize her egg using his sperm. The first time it didn't take. She told her husband she needed time before trying this again. In the meantime, she had a surgery which caused her to never be able to carry children. Her husband is clueless about this and STILL holds hope for a child of their own one day.

 

She didn't want to lose her lifestyle. Didn't want to trade her days spent at the nail or hair salon to raise kids. Didn't want to have to wake up before noon if she didn't feel like it. She's a wife who doesn't work and her husband has provided her with anything and everything she wants.

 

She's now in her mid 40's and has re-written history to: It just wasn't in the cards. I cannot carry children.

 

 

Maybe your wife doesn't want to sacrifice so much when there is no guarantee for any ROI.

 

Exactly what I'm talking about. And by saying "It's not in the cards" or (in my case) "We decided not to do IVF" or "He wouldn't do IVF", the woman gets to play the "hero" card. "Wow, you are an amazing woman for putting up with that" and still gets nothing but sympathy from her friends/family about not having kids. Seems like a pretty attractive deal. And the other side is equally awful, women who "don't want kids" are viewed very negatively by society at large and family in particular. So, on one hand, we tell a lie and live our views as a martyr, on the other, we tell the truth and live like as an outcast/pariah. I suspect that your friend isn't the only one who took the first option. Especially when "trying" isn't as simple as "have a lot of sex". Trying for us would be doctors, hormones, surgery, and, of course, lots of money.

[Weezy1973]

Either way, your wife is not being honest with you. Either she really wants kids and always has, but has let you believe that she didn't. And then cheated on you.

 

Or else she really doesn't want kids, but is allowing you to believe that you not wanting kids has been the problem the whole time. And then she cheated on you.

 

And what exactly are you holding onto here again?

[AnneP]

Exactly what I'm talking about. And by saying "It's not in the cards" or (in my case) "We decided not to do IVF" or "He wouldn't do IVF", the woman gets to play the "hero" card. "Wow, you are an amazing woman for putting up with that" and still gets nothing but sympathy from her friends/family about not having kids. Seems like a pretty attractive deal. And the other side is equally awful, women who "don't want kids" are viewed very negatively by society at large and family in particular. So, on one hand, we tell a lie and live our views as a martyr, on the other, we tell the truth and live like as an outcast/pariah. I suspect that your friend isn't the only one who took the first option. Especially when "trying" isn't as simple as "have a lot of sex". Trying for us would be doctors, hormones, surgery, and, of course, lots of money.

 

She's a family member and has told me everything along the way. No one thinks the two of them were cut out to be parents anyway, however I can see why she did what she did. I don't think it was fair to her husband, though. She owed it to him to be honest.

[AnneP]

And you are right about the financial side of it. She's not making the financial choices which would allow you to have kids. Where there is a will, there is a way. Even in a marriage where you can easily get pregnant, (like me) the couple still sits down and prepares a budget ahead of time. Discussions take place about what role the parents would take. She wants to stay home. Great. How does she make that happen? What is she willing to give up? Seems like she doesn't want to give anything up considering she just upgraded your home and blew your savings. Her actions don't line up with her words. If she really wanted this, she would be making sacrifices.