Relationships with an Introvert/Passive Aggressive?

[Sweetfish]

No.. someone like this needs patience and understanding. It is a Physiological condition not a Psychological one. It is due to the brain's Physiology and operation.

 

 

 

 

No ... She would be becoming over aroused in the interaction and would dissociate to protect herself. It can feel like your head will explode if the source of the stimulation does not cease, or one can become frozen with the induced fear.

 

If you want to know more or you wish to help her, buy her this book.

 

The Highly Sensitive Person:

How To Thrive When The World Overwhelms You

by Elaine N. Aron, Ph.D.

 

It can be sourced quite reasonably priced on a well known auction site e bay.

 

 

If she is an HSP it's like an introvert on steroids with deep emotional connection of fear.

 

I believe after all the foot work into understanding his ex he may feel it's one sided and build resentment. He already has kids to deal with.. he doesn't need a third. For an introvert they too need to be self aware and compromise with the S.O. as the extrovert usually doesn't not empathize and label the introvert as passive aggressive which is equivalent to calling some one BPD.

 

But than it can be equally said that an extrovert lives with risk and don't think before acting. That their shortcomings are because they are too aggressive.

 

This is not true. But would you like to be diagnosed by your S.O. as a ADD or a narcissist? As traits from extrovert can be lined up with narcissistic behavior. Be careful calling out diagnoses as clinical diagnosis noted in the DSM are still controversial and are hard to define as everyone has defense mechanism that are labeled in every single disorder.

 

 

Do you think telling your S.O. they need help... specially if they are high functioning is not a low blow to her ego as well.

 

Really think? The man she loves is giving her books and telling her she needs help.

 

That's where you need to start and see that maybe an alternate approach should have been used.

 

Do you start buying weight lost books to a overweight wife and start feeding her celery sticks?

 

I'm not saying your right or wrong. I'm just giving you another perspective to look at from another point of view.

 

No man or women has the arsenal to resolve every single relationship battle. Sometimes one battle can lose the war and it sucks. But you learn from those battles and move on.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Sweetfish

[Downtown]

Check out my post on my experience with my ex. It's not quite the same as BPD, but in many cases its similar.

Jorge, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., the self loathing, always being "The Victim," and hyper sensitivity -- are some of the warning signs for BPD. I therefore would not rule out the possibility of strong BPD traits simply based on her lack of outward rages and strong verbal abuse.

 

Granted, the vast majority of BPDers turn their anger outward into a display of drama and emotionalism. Indeed, the key defining trait for BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions. This is why most BPDers show their anger outwardly. That is, they are "talkers" and thus act out strongly with lots of verbal abuse when their fears are triggered.

 

However, a small share of BPDers -- I would guess 5% to 10% -- rarely show the outward rages. Most of the time, when you trigger their two fears, they turn their anger inward upon themselves. Not surprisingly, these BPDers are called "quiet borderlines" or "waif borderlines."

 

Significantly, their being "quiet" much of the time does not mean their partners escape punishment. These BPDers typically punish their partners with passive-aggressive snide remarks, icy silence, cold withdrawal, and presenting themselves as helpless victims. But the anger may occasionally be expressed outward in the form of rage or a temper tantrum.

 

Because these quiet BPDers constitute only a small share of the BPDer group, little has been written about their behavior. It therefore is difficult to find online articles about them that are written by professionals. Consequently, I have been citing the same two online articles since 2010.

 

One of my cites is the Waifs blog article written by Shari Schreiber. She describes these quiet BPDers as appearing fragile, needful and victimized by their relationships and life circumstances. They therefore project "helplessness" as a way of controlling you. When they are angry with you, they also tend to withdraw and give you the silent treatment instead of throwing a raging temper tantrum. (I do not recommend Schreiber's other blog articles about BPDers because she fails to distinguish them from narcissists and sociopaths.)

 

The second reference I have been citing is A.J. Mahari's blog article, The Quiet Acting-In Borderline. Whereas Schreiber emphasizes the helplessness and poor-little-me aspects of their behavior, Mahari emphasizes the way that many quiet BPDers use the silent treatment and icy withdrawal to punish their partners.

 

I caution that the key trait of BPD behavior is emotional instability which arises from the BPDer's inability to regulate his/her own emotions. Hence, if you were not seeing persistent evidence of such instability, you were not seeing a strong pattern of BPDer behavior -- regardless of whether she is quiet or not.

[jorgeg3d]

Basil67, Thank you for that wake up call. I think you're right. When you're in love you'll do anything for the person you're with. And that's my problem, I've always had an urge to help the people I love, though I know its not the right thing to do, and I know in the end they are the only ones that can help themselves.

[jorgeg3d]

 

Significantly, their being "quiet" much of the time does not mean their partners escape punishment. These BPDers typically punish their partners with passive-aggressive snide remarks, icy silence, cold withdrawal, and presenting themselves as helpless victims. But the anger may occasionally be expressed outward in the form of rage or a temper tantrum.

 

One of my cites is the Waifs blog article written by Shari Schreiber. She describes these quiet BPDers as appearing fragile, needful and victimized by their relationships and life circumstances. They therefore project "helplessness" as a way of controlling you. When they are angry with you, they also tend to withdraw and give you the silent treatment instead of throwing a raging temper tantrum.

 

Wow, that right there sums my ex pretty well. Overall, she withdrew from me many times. I'm just trying to understand why it all went south, seemingly within a year. I know I should have dumped her awhile ago, but again my love was too strong, I thought we could get through it, but I see now it was destined for failure with this type of mindset. I'd just never been used to this before and never understood it.

 

Oh and another thing I never got, was she never took responsibility for her own actions, or her own part of the decline of the relationship. I did, I apologized for what I did wrong, but never heard anything from her, in over a year!

 

Thank you so much for all the great info!

Edited December 9, 2016 by jorgeg3d

[guest572]

Well I knew she didn't like confrontation so that was part of it. And I never wanted to hurt her. I would come up to her with a problem we were having and a possible solution but she wouldn't reciprocate and help me with solutions, towards the end anyways.

 

At the beginning, and mostly throughout. We would go in circles, my view verses her view, she could never just meet me in the middle on many things. It was the most maddening thing to go through. A relationship is about meeting in the middle, having a common ground. We never really had that.

 

She'd always look at the negative in a situation, as opposed to the positive side and how to continue moving forward. She'd sabotage a lot of her life's goals, and eventually sabotaged the relationship. To me, nothing was unrepairable.

 

Thanks for expanding on that. I was just curious to understand more about the problems in the relationship. You have said many times that there were no problems in the relationship, and that your ex partner was creating unnecessary drama and had fears over nothing. That she was unable to meet you halfway, and you were going in circles. To me, that sounds like there was a major disagreement.. a roadblock to the relationship. Is it possible that the issues and concerns she was having were so great that she could not logically see a way forward? What were the discussions like? Did she say anything or would she give silent treatment?

 

It is hard with such limited information and I don't want to generalise as there is so much of that already in this thread. But it sounds like there was some sort of issue with communication between the two of you. And I am not sure if it is helpful to put it all down to your ex being introverted. It sounds as though she was unhappy for quite some time but was hanging in there, hoping for things to improve.

 

I think this has been addressed, but I want to mention that introversion has nothing to do with communication skill levels or passive aggression. I know many extroverts who are passive aggressive, and introverts who are excellent communicators and very direct. There is no correlation. I think some of it is to do with maturity, but also a person's ability to communicate and resolve conflict when very complex emotions are involved. It is very difficult! So I am a bit iffy about responses here which point to her as having 'no backbone' or a 'selfish agenda' or BPD. I can't see any information that points to these things. I think there is a lot more to the story.

[Nowty V]

I would totally do this if I knew she was receptive to get help, from me.

 

Nah .. you've got your head on back to front lol

 

If you like this woman what do you like her for?

 

Be aware of your own prejudiced hopes for this person, their potential.

 

After all it is the 'potential' you see from your perspective, gender, social experience. she will spot you a mile off and try and fathom your motivation.

 

If you are certain of your intention and that you won't harm what she already has then ....

 

Get the book delivered to her at her address and never mention it again.

 

Facilitate, in any positive way, her ability to understand herself; in relation to the world.

 

Never encroach on her, on any level, where it is unwelcome. Put her under no obligation. It has to be a self less act, so be sure how you configure yourself emotionally before you proceed.

 

Don't make plans in advance. If she agrees to see you, and you know you have 4 hours together. Get some nuts and prepare to go to a local, not crowded, green space with squirrels and feed them. But don't mention it, pick her up and go there but don't dive in.

 

Stop there and ask her would she like to. If she says yes then just be you doing it how you would. Don't kow tow to her trait. If she says no just drop it and don't mention it again.

 

It's all about managing her arousal until you find the 'sweet spot', a place with enough stimulation where you are equally engaged, but not so much stimulation that can lead to over arousal. Once her Amaygdalae start kicking in, it becomes unpleasant for both; and she can't help it.

 

Don't take all the above too literally, I was just trying to give a flavour of where your at. As you gain the woman's trust she will open up; gradually, and no doubt you'll find an acute intelligence and a blinding wit .. good luck

 

nb. The amygdalae reside in central, ancient, part of the brain. HSP's rarely actually require medication providing they are at liberty to meet their needs, though it is often prescribed for depression. There is nothing available specifically for the Amagydalae given that they are immediately integrated with all core activities and Glands, pituitary gland etc. Medication is blanket in nature and may make the water even muddier. You should always follow your GP's advice.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Nowty V

[jorgeg3d]

Thank you so much Brightnight, and Nowtv T!

 

I found this reading online that I would say describes my ex to a T and the things we've been through. It helps to understand the mindset of someone in this position. Though it doesn't seem right for the other person who's on the receiving end of things, true love is unconditional. And through ups and downs true love always wins.

 

Lessons Learned in Life | How to love a woman who has been to hell and back.

[Nowty V]

Though it doesn't seem right for the other person who's on the receiving end of things, true love is unconditional. And through ups and downs true love always wins.

 

You are not obliged to be on the receiving end, you could walk away.

 

Think all around the egg.

 

Are you certain there is true love and not some 'attachment'?

 

For example: What was your attachment like with your Mother? If you did not have a 'secure-attachment', elements of your Mother as the main care giver were perceived by you as unavailable. You may have found your 'Mother' within this woman on some subconscious level.

 

Your 'drive' would be to attach to the woman [Mother] and 'make better' all the perceived shortfalls from your childhood, create the 'Mother' of your dreams.

 

The above is Hypothetical Speculation for sure, just make sure you know why you are doing what you do. What outcomes do you want? Is this from a 'noble' perspective, a genuine altruism or do you just like f ***ing her?

 

What do you want from it?

[jorgeg3d]

No, noway is that I want a "mother" from her. My attachment is, the enormous chemistry we had the first year together. We were very similar in character, we'd feed off each other and not to mention the sex was so passionate, best sex I've ever had, bar none.

 

I've dated and have been with enough women to know that is hard to find.

Edited December 9, 2016 by jorgeg3d

[Nowty V]

Mirror, Mirror .. On the wall....

 

My dear Oedipus, it's a complex situation - attraction.

 

Just be careful, still waters run very deep, and there could be Dragons down there..

 

She may have grown using her 'Trait' to manipulate her social interactions, thereby controling her arousal and discomfort. Induced psycho somatic illness, sleep, upset, she has quite an arsenal at her disposal to silently and effectively control.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Nowty V

[Nowty V]

Not to mention most are passive aggressive.

 

I wouldn't let 'Presenting' with this trait as defining her in any way. [see Brian Little: Free Trait Theory]

 

She will just be seeking to 'Shut Down' any element of an interaction that is picked up on her 'Spidey Sixth Sense' that could have any 'over arousing' effect.

 

She's deflecting everything from her Amygdalae = Fear

[guest572]

 

If you are certain of your intention and that you won't harm what she already has then ....

 

Get the book delivered to her at her address and never mention it again.

 

Please don't send her a book. .. how insulting. I will await further info before providing my "diagnosis "

[basil67]

>> true love is unconditional. And through ups and downs true love always wins.<<

 

Jorge, I want to challenge this belief of yours.

 

Unconditional love is normal in a parent/child relationship. But there should be conditions on adult/adult love. The main condition should be being treated in a respectful manner. It is unhealthy to love someone without conditions of what kind of behaviour we are willing to accept. Unconditional love is one of the ways people end up in abusive relationships.

 

Love doesn't always win because love isn't enough on it's own. More important than love is compatibility of communication styles, respect and similar values of the individuals. If you don't have these other things, then love can't exist. Or if it does exist, it's a very unhealthy love.

[Nowty V]

Please don't send her a book. .. how insulting.

 

I disagree.

 

Any source of relevant information can only be of use. The book indicated may be of no use to her specific situation. At least she could dismiss it with validity if such was the case. However, if it illustrated some patterns of her behaviour that were congruent with her trait, what then?

 

She would encounter information from a valid source that indicated "don't worry, it's normal" for somebody with a brain physiology that affects 20% of the population at any one time in evolution.

 

There has got to be valid biological reasons why this trait has survived evolution.

[Sweetfish]

I disagree.

 

Any source of relevant information can only be of use. The book indicated may be of no use to her specific situation. At least she could dismiss it with validity if such was the case. However, if it illustrated some patterns of her behaviour that were congruent with her trait, what then?

 

She would encounter information from a valid source that indicated "don't worry, it's normal" for somebody with a brain physiology that affects 20% of the population at any one time in evolution.

 

There has got to be valid biological reasons why this trait has survived evolution.

 

 

If she is high functioning in society the book is an insult. If she knows she has issues thats another ball game

[jorgeg3d]

>> true love is unconditional. And through ups and downs true love always wins.<<

 

Jorge, I want to challenge this belief of yours.

 

Unconditional love is normal in a parent/child relationship. But there should be conditions on adult/adult love. The main condition should be being treated in a respectful manner. It is unhealthy to love someone without conditions of what kind of behaviour we are willing to accept. Unconditional love is one of the ways people end up in abusive relationships.

 

Love doesn't always win because love isn't enough on it's own. More important than love is compatibility of communication styles, respect and similar values of the individuals. If you don't have these other things, then love can't exist. Or if it does exist, it's a very unhealthy love.

 

 

Basil67, I believe in unconditional love as long as there is no abuse of any kind and yes all of the above you mentioned is definitely a factor.

[guest572]

I disagree.

 

Any source of relevant information can only be of use. The book indicated may be of no use to her specific situation. At least she could dismiss it with validity if such was the case. However, if it illustrated some patterns of her behaviour that were congruent with her trait, what then?

 

She would encounter information from a valid source that indicated "don't worry, it's normal" for somebody with a brain physiology that affects 20% of the population at any one time in evolution.

 

There has got to be valid biological reasons why this trait has survived evolution.

 

Her trait? You know nothing about this woman and have made all these judgements based on OPs tiny pieces of info from his perspective of their relationship issues (still waiting for jorge to elaborate on that. For all we know, she had perfectly valid fears. OP glosses over the details). She told OP that he had hurt her a lot. Why would she appreciate her ex boyfriend sending her some book to fix her "issues"? She has not asked for help.

[jorgeg3d]

Her trait? You know nothing about this woman and have made all these judgements based on OPs tiny pieces of info from his perspective of their relationship issues (still waiting for jorge to elaborate on that. For all we know, she had perfectly valid fears. OP glosses over the details). She told OP that he had hurt her a lot. Why would she appreciate her ex boyfriend sending her some book to fix her "issues"? She has not asked for help.

 

I haven't elaborated explicit details because I don't think its appropriate to do this online. After all, this is a personal situation that I just need some understanding and reassurance to cope with it. I did post the original link to my breakup post a few reply's back if you'd like to read it.

 

My perspective is, she was never clear with me on what the actual problem was in our relationship. Not until the end did she mention anything remotely close to why she was breaking it off. I had no chance in rectifying anything I had done wrong, if indeed I did anything wrong. By that point she was already packed and moving out of my place.

 

The communication was just not good, I would try to talk to her, we'd sit down somewhere and try to talk it out, but she would jump through hoops with me on the issues. Which was the same issues for the last 6 months of the relationship. We would talk for 2+ hours and in the end, we were right back to where we started. No real solutions. I came to a point where I was outlining what I thought was the problem and the solution to it. But again, she wouldn't share what she was truly thinking, I guess she didn't want to hurt me but in the end its all the same hurt, if not now, then later.

 

No one is perfect, I could have handled things a little differently but I never did anything to intentionally hurt her. I think she convinced herself that I was out to break her heart, when in fact all I ever wanted was to help, love and support her. I walked on eggshells for her for the last 6+ months, the few times I told her what was really on my mind, was too much for her to handle. I did it in a respectful way but I did tell it like it is.

 

Here's the original breakup post.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/604679-love-my-life-but-she-changed-after-8-months-then-left-me-2-years-later

 

 

Also, if you have the time to read this, check it out. Its long but it identifies a lot of what I went through with my ex. Thanks guys, this is at the very least a way for me to let it out.

 

Lessons Learned in Life | How to love a woman who has been to hell and back.