[wife not in love anymore]

[LancasterAmos1966]

Well yeah, I'm sure she is thrilled to get insurance and play money without having to lift a finger for it. who wouldn't be.

 

I'm sure she is having a grand ol' time laughing all the way to the bank and having a good laugh with her friends at her gravy train writing her checks and paying her bills while getting nothing in return.

 

I can't even accuse her of chumping you. You are chumping yourself.

 

I'd rather be accused of loving too much vs not loving enough.

 

My guess is that she is not having fun. Walking away from a faithful, loyal husband for 20 years and 6 kids surely has caused some second guessing on her part. But I am not going to laugh at her when something goes wrong, I'm not going to hope she falls on her face just because she walked out on me.

 

If she really wanted to hurt me, she could have made up lies, she could have harmed me when I was snoring.....but no, she did the honorable thing and moved out. (I even helped her move and I am still holding items that she has no room for in her apartment.)

 

It's not my job to hurt her nor is it my job to help her. But I choose often to voluntarily help fellow human travelers....including my estranged wife.

 

I'm not helping her to get her back. I have no hidden agenda. I promised to help her for 10 years to transition. I have 3 years remaining. If she can't make it after 10 years, that will be her problem to deal with.

 

There's enough hatred in the world. I choose to show love from a distance even when I get zero in return.

[LancasterAmos1966]

Hi Lancaster, can you clarify as to what your status is with your wife(ex)? Are you still legally married to her but separated from her or are you actually divorced? Why exactly did she leave you? Did she or is she having an affair/ has remarried or living in with some other guy? How long have you two been separated and what is the state of your communication with her? Did she discover lesbian tendencies within her because of which she wanted to separate from you? I ask this because I have seen something like this happening where a long term marriage broke up because the wife suddenly developed feelings for another female. In fact she was a latent lesbian.

 

However, despite what you may have to offer I agree with Oldshirt that once a spouse breaks the covenant agreed upon at the the of marriage unilaterally, then he/she is not entitled to any further financial, material or emotional support from the aggrieved spouse. As Oldshirt has said such support would become enabling and not drive home the bitter lesson that what that spouse has done is greivious in nature and causes immense damage to the aggrieved spouse. If your wife was an exceptional spouse for twenty years then it is safe to assume that you, too, were at least a good spouse during that period. If that be true then in what way has she rewarded you for being a good husband all those years? By abandoning you? All the good that sheay have done in those twenty Yeats was wiped out in that single moment when she abandoned you. Yes, you may retain fond memories of your Yeats together but you owe her nothing else except as Oldshirt said was what the court ordered. Of course the decision to support her after she abandoned you is yours to decide on but one can only say that it is the exception to the rule and not the rule itself. You can talk about it but I would think you cannot rightly recommend it to anyone else. You walk in your own shoes not anyone else. What I have said is not to put you down. I completely accept your decision to support your wife in every way inspire of her having abandoned you. However, that is only your reality and not any one else's. As far as the OP is concerned, his wife is cheating on him and he needs to take action to protect himself in every way.

 

I am estranged for 7 years. No lawyers involved, no court involved.

 

She simply grew tired of being a wife and mother.

 

Her actions show that she now wants to be a girlfriend and more like an Aunt.

 

Since I won't file divorce, and she hasn't filed, we are still legally married. Legally, I owe her nothing. But I have voluntarily offered to help her....and I have no regrets over marrying her or helping her transition away from me.

 

I do regret crying and missing her for at least the first 2 years....but I'm human and my emotions were hurt.

 

Our society has many stories of hated and hurting others. I have chosen to show love and a helpful attitude.

 

I have boundaries.....she is not allowed in my house, I will only communicate via email, etc.

 

My Vow was separate from her Vow. Just because she broke her promise does not give me the license to break mine. But since she has moved out, I'm no longer obligated to help her. That is why I'm ok with a 10 year period of help.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Lancaster, Thankyou for your response. However you have not clarified as to whether your wife had/ is having an affair with another man. Also, if not with another man then with another woman( lesbian relationship). I ask because any infidelity would render any help that you are giving her liable to enable her in her breach of trust with you. For the rest of it, I fully respect your decision to help your estranged wife( and since the bonds ofarriage have not been legally snapped I guess what you are doing has a logic of it's own) financially and with insurance. Is your wife employed or is she running a business which provides her some income? You said that you had agreed to help her for ten years so I am assuming she will be able to fully support herself after that.

 

As I said that while your decision to help your wife is a valid one for you the same cannot be said to hold true for the OP here because of the fact that his wife is cheating on him. However that is my opinion and it is up to the OP to decide if he would like to take your advice.

 

On another note how have your children adjusted to their mother's decision? What is her relationship with them if any? Warm wishes.

 

 

...

...

 

 

......

[oldshirt]

Our society has many stories of hated and hurting others. I have chosen to show love and a helpful attitude.

 

 

You seem to have a binary mentality where your options are to love and support or to hate and disparage.

 

Both options are wrong and self-destructive IMHO.

 

The best option is disengage completely and neither love not hate but simply move on with your own life leaving the other to their own devices as well.

 

They simply become another person on planet earth. Just another face in the crowd.

 

Where some of us are going with this in relation to the OP in this thread is that he needs to also pursue that land of disengagement ( or as they call it on the Chumplady website, the land of "Meh")

 

It's where you feel neither love nor hate and neither support nor disparage. You simply accept them as just another person on the street.

 

"Meh" is when you are complete disinvested and they can no longer hurt you or cost you anything.

 

What you are talking about carries a terrible financial and emotional toll.

 

It is a terrible example for someone who's wife is leaving for another man.

[LancasterAmos1966]

Just a Guy: Hi Lancaster, Thankyou for your response. However you have not clarified as to whether your wife had/ is having an affair with another man. Also, if not with another man then with another woman( lesbian relationship). I ask because any infidelity would render any help that you are giving her liable to enable her in her breach of trust with you.

 

Hi Just a Guy: Yes, she is having an affair. Actually, she has had several affairs, all with men (at least to my knowledge.)

 

A few months before she moved out, I made a separate bedroom to live in, because I knew what she was doing. I told her that we would be room-mates until she changed her ways. Instead of changing her ways, she eventually moved out.

 

 

 

 

For the rest of it, I fully respect your decision to help your estranged wife( and since the bonds ofarriage have not been legally snapped I guess what you are doing has a logic of it's own) financially and with insurance. Is your wife employed or is she running a business which provides her some income? You said that you had agreed to help her for ten years so I am assuming she will be able to fully support herself after that.

 

She is employed but really doesn't make much. If I would not have helped her, there was no realistic way she could have made it comfortably on her own. Of course, that is not my problem. Nor have I made it my problem.

 

Does she deserve my help?? No way. But to me, true love means giving love when nothing is expected in return. And that is the kind of love I meant when I got married.

 

I don't like being dumped --- so I wasn't going to just dump her. I wanted her as my wife, but she has chosen to not want me any longer. And after I worked through the loss, I'm very content not having her in my life.

 

Our lives are very, very separate now. I might physically see her a few times a year. I'll be friendly......but I won't be her friend.

 

All of us have probably heard the statement: If I can't have him/her, then nobody can. Wow, that is so horrible to think that someone could hurt another fellow human just because they want to change their relationship status.

 

I'm not going to be a doormat, but I'm also not going to harm her for wanting to have other men in her life. There are consequences to her actions!! She lost me, and she lost my kids out of her life too. Apparently her new men are worth more than a husband and a family.

 

 

 

 

As I said that while your decision to help your wife is a valid one for you the same cannot be said to hold true for the OP here because of the fact that his wife is cheating on him. However that is my opinion and it is up to the OP to decide if he would like to take your advice.

On another note how have your children adjusted to their mother's decision? What is her relationship with them if any? Warm wishes.

 

 

I have 3 adopted kids (non-relatives) that really don't fully comprehend all that has happened.

 

My 3 biological young-adult-kids understand completely; and they accept that their mom has chosen to be a 50-year-old party woman. They support my decision to help her transition because of the marriage bond --- but since they do not have a marital bond to deal with, they have easily set her free.

 

 

And warm wishes to you too!!

[LancasterAmos1966]

oldshirt: You seem to have a binary mentality where your options are to love and support or to hate and disparage.

 

Both options are wrong and self-destructive IMHO.

 

The best option is disengage completely and neither love not hate but simply move on with your own life leaving the other to their own devices as well.

 

Me: The OP just started this process. He wants to do anything to save his marriage. He doesn't want to disengage right now.

 

 

 

They simply become another person on planet earth. Just another face in the crowd.

 

True. But "become" takes time to happen. There is a process. Some left-behind-spouses might be able to say Goodbye, and never think of that person ever again. That sure isn't me. I was attached at the hip, so it took awhile to emotionally let go. I never stalked or sent unwanted items/communication.

 

 

Where some of us are going with this in relation to the OP in this thread is that he needs to also pursue that land of disengagement ( or as they call it on the Chumplady website, the land of "Meh")

 

True again. But that will take him time. And right now, the OP was asking for comments on how to save his family. In my opinion, he has a better chance of saving his marriage if he treats her with love and kindness.

 

And also in my opinion, there is only one way that will be good for me, one way that is good for you, and one way that is good for the OP. This is not a one-size fits all. I've read this site for many years, but only joined in August to reply to Jeff who lost his wife of 23 years. He wound up appreciating my views/opinions and even bought a book that I suggested. I'm not on a bully-pulpit demanding that everyone does it my way. But, when I think my 2 cents might help, I chime in.

 

Not everyone wants to run out and file divorce; and not everyone wants to help their spouse transition into a new life. No problem.

 

But, by having options, the OP can feel it out and choose what pathway he will ultimately go.

 

 

 

It's where you feel neither love nor hate and neither support nor disparage. You simply accept them as just another person on the street.

 

"Meh" is when you are complete disinvested and they can no longer hurt you or cost you anything.

 

What you are talking about carries a terrible financial and emotional toll.

 

It is a terrible example for someone who's wife is leaving for another man.

 

Being born is risky business because there's a 100% chance that we will eventually die.

 

Love is risky too. And I chose to take that risk; and I eventually lost. It cost me money, it cost me time, it cost me emotional pain.

 

But, I'm glad that I took the risk because I have 20 years of wonderful memories, I have 6 wonderful kids who have seen their dad go through a painful situation and come out standing tall.

 

My best friend from grade school is a 50 year old bachelor. I would not trade his life for anything --- and he would not trade his life for mine!! We are opposites.

 

And I think, oldshirt, that you and I are opposites too. I enjoy the dialogue we are having, but I'm recovered. I don't need any help. I'm enjoying my life as Mr. Mom, and I'm very, very, very happy that I supported my wife into a new chapter of her life. If I had a pile of money, I'd support her until the day I die. Not because I want to stalk her, or control her. But because I love life, and I love my fellow humans. My kids and I don't even celebrate Halloween, but each year we give away a few hundred dollars in candy!! Why? Because we know kids have fun going out trick-or-treating, and everyone likes Hershey candy bars.

 

I feel bad for the OP because I'm certain that wherever he is at right now, he is thinking about his marital situation. That is sad to me. I'm going to submit my reply, sign off, and enjoy the rest of my sunny afternoon. So whenever he reads my comments, my hope is that he can find a nugget of help in here somewhere to help him make it through his day.

[oldshirt]

 

 

The OP just started this process. He wants to do anything to save his marriage. He doesn't want to disengage right now.

 

Here's part of the equation that I think both the OP and you are missing.

 

Yes, he "wants" to save his marriage. We all do.

 

When your spouse is having an affair and is disengaging from you, it is fair to lay it all out on the table and say that you do not want them engaging with another person and that you want the marriage to remain intact and be a healthy and happy marriage for all. Then you can offer that if they end the affair completely, have no contact for life, attend MC with you and do their share of the heavy lifting to save the marriage, y'all can continue to live as husband and wife.

 

......and then your spouse says, "no,"

 

Or even if they pretend to try to reconcile, but continue to screw the other person and continue to disengage from you.

 

At that point what you "want" means nothing. They are continuing the destruction and degradation of the marriage. It doesn't matter how many hoops and hurdles you jump through or how well you dance the Pick Me! Dance. You are in a losing battle and all time, energies and monies that you put into the relationship all goes down the drain. One person can't sustain a happy, healthy marriage alone.

 

It doesn't matter what one "wants."

 

In the opening posts of this thread, the OP talked a lot about the "Fog." What the fog is is the WS's belief that the AP is all wonderful and that their spouse is a louse and that their life will be wonderful with the AP. 99% of the time it is a false belief on the part of the WS.

 

The way you break that fog is to cut them off from all emotional, romantic/sexual, financial and companionship support from the marriage and leave them to the AP. You take away all comfort and support and lifestyle that the marriage provides and let them be on their own and with the AP.

 

99% of the time, once the support and comfort of the marriage is removed, they will quickly (some times in days) see that the AP is not all that and that the AP will not provide a better life at all.

 

In countless instances, once the WS shows up on the AP's doorstep, the AP doesn't want them around full time at all. Most OM just want the NSA fun that a WW provides when she is comfortably married and living in the marital home and only wants sex from the OM. In nearly all instances, the OM doesn't want the WW fulltime at all and never did.

 

You break that false in the WW by cutting her off from the marital support system and letting her live on her own devices as a single mother.

 

Sometimes her head clears and she realizes she made a mistake and wants to return to the marriage and is willing to do the heavy lifting to make it work.

 

Sometimes she doesn't.

[oldshirt]

What you have done is completely supported and provided for her single-woman fun time. You have funded her party time with all her men and have footed the bill for her screwing other men under your nose.

 

She has truly had her cake and is feasting on it too on your dime.

 

You have chumped yourself like no other I have seen here on these forums in years.

 

Your wife is still legally married to you and you are paying for her single lifestyle so she can bang other dudes and have you support her doing it.

 

I don't know what your thoughts are on gay marriage, but would you marry me so I can divorce you and have you pay my bills for life so I can feather my party house and bring a string of women home to have fun with them and have you pay for everything?

 

I do not know if Misstep is still even following this thread, but you have provided a valuable contribution to this threat and this topic. It's provided a glowing example of what NOT to do, but the dialogue has been valuable nonetheless.

[oldshirt]

True. But "become" takes time to happen. There is a process. Some left-behind-spouses might be able to say Goodbye, and never think of that person ever again. That sure isn't me. I was attached at the hip, so it took awhile to emotionally let go. I never stalked or sent unwanted items/communication.

 

 

True again. But that will take him time.

 

You are confusing feelings with actions.

 

Yes, it will take time for the feelings to fade. Heck, somewhere deep down inside of me I still have some feelings for my high school sweetheart from 30+ years ago.

 

But actions to save one'self can always be taken today. Divorce papers can be drawn up, reviewed by family law attorney and filed in a day or two. credit cards can be canceled in a matter of moments. Bank accounts can be closed in minutes. An apartment can be found, deposits paid, moving trucks rented and belonging packed and moved in a matter of days depending on availability.

 

Things like the final divorce decree, property divisions, mandated custody arrangments etc etc are all dependent on the court system and can take awhile, but all the preliminary actions to withdraw marital support can all be done in a matter of minutes to days.

 

You have drawn this on indefinitely for years and years because you are relying on feelings to be your guide.

 

And do to your feelings of love, devotion, duty etc, you have endured continuing heartbreak, I assume you have not dated or found another love interest and you have spent 10s and 10s of thousands of dollars and you still have a wife who is living it up, screwing multiple men, living the single party lifestyle and is laughing all the way to the bank at her chump husband who is footing the bills for her lifestyle. She and her boyfriends are clinking their champagne glasses (that you paid for) and having themselves a good laugh at you before they drop their drawers and have a good romp and dirty the bedsheets that you paid for.

 

...and all because of your feelings and your lack of definitive action.

 

You are training your sons to be chumps. You are training your sons to be used and exploited and manipulated by women because they have "feelings" for them.

 

You are training your daughters to give a few BJs so some guy gets "feelings" for them and then gives them money and provides for them. We call those prostitutes and gold diggers where I come from.

 

You are raising another generation of chumps and users.

 

All because you used to like someone and you don't want to feel any bad feelings whilst protecting your own self interests.

[LancasterAmos1966]

The very moment I said "I do" is when I committed myself to my wife -- in sickness and health, for better or worse, until death do us part. But since she chose to move out, I have no obligation to help her. I choose to help her voluntarily. I will never stalk her, bring intentional harm to her, etc. And the moment she says "stop" -- you betcha I will stop sending her any help.

 

As much as I can, I will do my best to honor my vow/promises. That goes for a small promise like "I'll buy you lunch next Monday" --- to "I'll remain married to you until death do us part."

 

Do I wish I would have married someone that would have honored her vow until one of us died?? You betcha.

 

I try my best to tell the truth all the time --- but if I'm putting my hand on the Bible, or I'm making a promise that nearly 100 family/friends are witnessing, then I'm going to do my super-best to honor that promise.

 

If you would ever do any kind of business with me, you'd soon learn that a handshake and a simple "yes" from me is all that is needed. I'm not against contracts and written agreements. Contracts are often needed to prevent misunderstandings, but when I got married, my wife did not need me to sign a prenuptial agreement. I never thought we'd separate, but when we did, she was not kicking herself for not having me sign a prenuptial.

 

She knows that I can be trusted. Instead of being a "chump," I believe that makes me an honest person that is willing to be kind in spite of things not going my way.

 

Once she walked out, I had a few choices to make:

 

1. I could File divorce -- which I would never do, for any reason -- because remember, I will do my best to honor all promises I make.

 

2. I could go No Contact -- make it difficult for her to visit my kids by saying she is unfit, she abandoned us, etc. Make it difficult for her to retrieve marital assets, money for her personal expenses, etc. In other words, I could have the old eye-for-an-eye type of attitude. You hurt me, so I'm not going to make it easy for you.

 

3. I could show love and kindness -- even help her transition into a new chapter of life without me. I could make it clear that she can have everything that truly belongs to her, and I won't break her stuff or intentionally hide assets, etc. I could set boundaries, like no phone calls (to help my emotions heal), and she is not allowed into my house but she is welcome to visit the kids any time she wishes. (No court order needed -- just contact me, and we'll make it work.)

 

I chose Number 3.

 

Although I would prefer companionship, I am not half-of-a-man because I don't have a wife beside me.

 

Who I am is not determined by having a wife in my arms.

 

Having a wife is very nice (I enjoyed married life for 20 years!!!!), but while I'm alive AND when I'm dead, I want to be remembered as someone that loved life, loved others, and was a Giver.

 

I hope you don't have any control over what goes on my tombstone, because you'd probably put "CHUMP" in block letters.

[LancasterAmos1966]

 

You have drawn this on indefinitely for years and years because you are relying on feelings to be your guide.

 

 

And do to your feelings of love, devotion, duty etc, you have endured continuing heartbreak, I assume you have not dated or found another love interest

 

 

I'm a man that keeps my promise....small promises and big promises.

 

Haha, if I went by feelings, I would have filed divorce long ago, and be remarried by now.

 

Continued Heartbreak? No way!!

 

I was heart-broke for at least the first 2 year. But I'm sure not heart-broken any longer.

 

I'm cool doing this journey alone, in my new role as Mr. Mom. And depending on my health and age, if my estranged wife passes away before me, then I'd like to find another lady to marry. But I'm not going to date, have friends with benefits, etc., UNTIL my first marriage/promise is completely ended.

 

And please don't pity me. My life is super-duper-great. After the dust settled, I feel I got left down as easy as possible. I'm Mr. Mom to my 6 kids; my wife and I were able to divide joint property, etc., without any lawyer needed. I got to enjoy married life for 20+ years. I have fairly good health, a few dollars in my wallet, a full coal bin, a few toys like motorcycles, etc.

 

Why would I throw away all my happiness and contentment just because I am estranged from my wife. To me that would be like the kid that got 10 toys for Christmas but since they did not get the "one-toy" that he/she wanted, they throw a temper-tantrum and do their best to ruin the holiday for the entire household.

 

I choose to see the tank half-full, not half-empty.

[oldshirt]

I hope you don't have any control over what goes on my tombstone, because you'd probably put "CHUMP" in block letters.

 

LOL Good one! LOL :-D

 

But I would have no need to do that - it is already obvious ;-)

 

 

In all seriousness, you should check out the "Chumplady" website and you should submit your story to Chumplady.

 

That site is full of people like you who are kind, thoughtful people who strive to do good in the world and who are sincere and honorable in their promises and commitments, but who have been taken advantage of and exploited because of their sense of duty.

 

You would find kinship and community there.

 

Although while they would certainly understand where you are coming from as many also held the same beliefs and values, they all also eventually saw the light and realized that protecting your own self interests and not being taken advantage of is not vengeful, selfish or mean.

 

You seem to hold this belief that to protect your own assets that you must be vengeful and do harm to others. That is simply not true. It is not vengeful to stop funding someone who has abandoned you. You do not have to disparage her or inflict harm or pain upon her to not finance and support her living her life as a single party girl after she left you.

 

That is not vengeful, it is simply prudent.

 

go to the Chumplady website and submit your story. you will find understanding and support there by people just like yourself. Many will likely say much of the same things as I have said, but they will understand firsthand of where you are coming from and it won't be a completely alien concept to them like it is to me.

[oldshirt]

 

. And depending on my health and age, if my estranged wife passes away before me, then I'd like to find another lady to marry. But I'm not going to date, have friends with benefits, etc., UNTIL my first marriage/promise is completely ended.

 

.

 

She started doing other dudes, moved out, is living a separate life as a single woman and screwing a variety of dudes without restriction for almost 10 years- how is this marriage not dead and already returned to the earth as ashes, dirt and dust?

 

You are not seeing the glass as half full, you are delusional and seeing mirages and hallucinations.

[LancasterAmos1966]

She started doing other dudes, moved out, is living a separate life as a single woman and screwing a variety of dudes without restriction for almost 10 years- how is this marriage not dead and already returned to the earth as ashes, dirt and dust?

 

You are not seeing the glass as half full, you are delusional and seeing mirages and hallucinations.

 

 

For legal purposes, my marriage is still intact. I'm legally married.

 

But, for non-legal purposes, my marriage is long dead.

 

I'm just choosing to honor my promise.

 

With me, a handshake is still good enough.

Edited November 5, 2016 by LancasterAmos1966

[oldshirt]

For legal purposes, my marriage is still intact. I'm legally married.

 

But, for non-legal purposes, my marriage is long dead.

 

I'm just choosing to honor my promise.

 

With me, a handshake is still good enough.

 

you are only legally married because you've neglected to inform the courthouse of your living arrangements so they haven't had a chance to update the paperwork yet.

 

And I'm not buying all this Dudley Doright handshake and promises stuff. No one is that gullible or naïve. There aren't even any Nicholas Sparks movies where someone is holding on for decades after all this. There is more to this story and something else that is keeping you hanging on.

 

You either have some kind of angle here that is in your better interests to stay legally married and keep her on the payroll (is she the sole heir to rich parents that are getting sick perhaps?) or you have some kind of mental illness or disorder or something.

 

Whether you choose to tell us or not is your prerogative and your choice of course, but I'm not buying this duty and honor and vows stuff anymore.

[LancasterAmos1966]

LOL Good one! LOL :-D

 

But I would have no need to do that - it is already obvious ;-)

 

 

In all seriousness, you should check out the "Chumplady" website and you should submit your story to Chumplady.

 

That site is full of people like you who are kind, thoughtful people who strive to do good in the world and who are sincere and honorable in their promises and commitments, but who have been taken advantage of and exploited because of their sense of duty.

.

 

Being a resident of PA, and a citizen of the USA, I have many rules that I must follow.

 

Some rules seem silly to me, but I still must obey them.

 

Other rules, like not running a red light make perfect sense.

 

I also have rules that I follow from the Bible.

 

A few rules from the Bible include "let your yes be yes, and your no be no" and "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" --- these rules are not too hard for me to follow.

 

The rule from the Bible to "turn the other cheek" is not always easy for me to do. As an all-American guy, I'm quite capable of not turning the other cheek. I could have easily lawyered up a few years ago, and taught my wife a good lesson. But then I'd be breaking my vow/promise and I'd be breaking a rule from the Bible that tells me to turn the other cheek.

 

Since I'm an "Anabaptist" by birth (Google will help explain), turning the other cheek might be easier for me than for others. No problem. I have not come onto this board attempting to begin arguments. I've simply come on here to give some hope when it seems like there is no hope and to give me 2 cents.

 

Some people are not ready to file divorce. That's where someone like me can be helpful. I can suggest to be kind and loving. Don't play hardball; be thankful, keep the communication lines open, etc. And one piece of advice that I've given is to get a non-religious book called Uncoupling: Turning Points In Intimate Relationships. Haha, I don't know the author, but since the book really helped me to understand that some spouses just want out, I want to pass that piece of advice along. Jeff who lost his wife of 23 years, actually bought the book back in August and made a comment for others to "buy it."

 

I've seen it happen on here -- sometimes the comments are "protect your assets, call a lawyer today" --- but if the person doesn't want to go that route, then they can be made to feel like they are being a chump.

 

I've lurked on here for easily the past 7 years (estranged since November 14, 2009) --- but I just joined in August because I felt that I had some good advice to offer too.

 

I stay away from commenting on the divorce questions --- since I don't agree with divorce, I'd just be starting an argument, and that is not why I'm on here. People on here are hurting!! The last thing they need is an another argument.

 

My method of marriage worked well for me --- I got 20 great years. I know how to treat a wife when she is in my arms AND I know how to treat a wife when she is not in my arms.

 

My method of separation worked well for me --- we divided up property, made some common-sense boundaries, child custody all without a lawyer.

 

I've never suggested that someone not get a lawyer and try to protect their interests. I'm not anti-lawyer.

 

I want a wife that lives with me voluntarily.....NOT because I did a 180, and am now impressing her or whatever. I did not do a 180 to marry her.

 

Before my wife moved out, I tried hard to keep her in my arms.

 

Once she moved out, I did not try to have her return. I actually did not want her to fail in her new apartment and new life. Why?? Because if she would have failed, she would have shown back up on my doorstep. Once she moved out, I realized this lady is not who I thought she was. And I sure did not want to do something that would "force" her to return.

 

Yes, my helping her enabled her. But it also prevented a false return. I went to counseling myself just after separation. I forget most of what he said but one thing I do remember is this: DO NOT reconcile until you can learn to live alone.

 

Wow, that was good advice, and so I combined his advice, the Bible advice, and some of my own personal character --- I mixed it all together and came up with a game plan. It has all worked very well for me.

[LancasterAmos1966]

or you have some kind of mental illness or disorder or something.

 

 

Haha, well, I consider myself to be normal. Maybe you would not agree, but thankfully you are not my neighbor or you might have me put into the hospital for a few days of observation.

 

No, there's no hidden agenda. No chunks of money, her parents are long gone, no will that I'm aware of, etc.

 

I'm Anabaptist by birth.....I choose to take the short-end-of-stick if necessary. It's not something I go around looking for!! I'm not a martyr by birth. I like nice things, I like some money in my wallet, and I sure would have liked a wife for my entire life too!!

 

Above my computer is a picture of my hero, Dirk Willems. (Google will help.)

 

"Dirk Willems was a Dutch martyred Anabaptist who is most famous for escaping from prison, turning around to rescue his pursuer—who had fallen through thin ice while chasing Willems—to then be recaptured, tortured and killed for his faith."

 

That is like "wow" to me --- He was able to return back to rescue his pursuer --- and in a small way, by honoring my vow, by helping my estranged wife in a small way, is my way of living out what I happen to believe.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Lancaster, I guess you are one in a billion. Much as I may admire your sentiments I have to agree with Oldshirt on what he had to say. You said somewhere that you will cease assisting your wife after the tenth year. In case she has not been able to settle herself( got married again or whatever) and she lands back at your door and claims that since she is not divorced from you she is entitled to live with you, what do you propose to do? Will you take her back or tell her you will continue to support her with finances and insurance to ensure she stays away from you? The way I see it is that the moment she broke her vows to you your own vows became null and void. Only some legal paper is holding you stuck to her. Even that legal paper is probably yellowing and disintegrating. You don't have to do this unless of course you want to punish yourself. You have said that you are only giving advice to those who do not want to divorce by quoting them your principles and example. However I am sure that once they read through your reasoning and justifications they will immediately file for divorce because they do not share the same sentiments and beliefs that you do. Most of them are in the first stages of betrayal and are hurting badly. Once their anger stage kicks in they will become much more antagonistic towards their wayward spouses. Just a thought.

[LancasterAmos1966]

Hi Lancaster, I guess you are one in a billion. Much as I may admire your sentiments I have to agree with Oldshirt on what he had to say. You said somewhere that you will cease assisting your wife after the tenth year. In case she has not been able to settle herself( got married again or whatever) and she lands back at your door and claims that since she is not divorced from you she is entitled to live with you, what do you propose to do? Will you take her back or tell her you will continue to support her with finances and insurance to ensure she stays away from you? The way I see it is that the moment she broke her vows to you your own vows became null and void. Only some legal paper is holding you stuck to her. Even that legal paper is probably yellowing and disintegrating. You don't have to do this unless of course you want to punish yourself. You have said that you are only giving advice to those who do not want to divorce by quoting them your principles and example. However I am sure that once they read through your reasoning and justifications they will immediately file for divorce because they do not share the same sentiments and beliefs that you do. Most of them are in the first stages of betrayal and are hurting badly. Once their anger stage kicks in they will become much more antagonistic towards their wayward spouses. Just a thought.

 

Hi Just a Guy. I've offered my comments to a few fellow travelers, and have had a few positive replies.

 

I'm not here on a mission to get people on my side. I see myself as another forum member willing to share my thoughts. The anger stage will most likely occur. So just maybe my comments could help someone not stay stuck in the anger stage --- the goal is Acceptance --- and being thankful for sharing 10 years of marriage instead of being angry that they did not get 30 years might help them towards that final stage of Acceptance.

 

Concerning my personal situation: Being that I consider my marriage to be for life, then yes, I would be willing to have my estranged wife work towards reuniting. It would be a long process, but if she really wants to return, I'd give her a set of requirements/goals to work on. I'm very doubtful that she will ever return, and I'm even more doubtful she would follow through with my requirements.

 

Obviously she finds her new chapter of life to be better than being with me --- and that's ok with me.

 

The Bible rule for anger is: Be angry and sin not.

 

I take this to mean that anger is ok. But if it crosses a line where it hurts myself or others, then I'm allowing my emotions to get out of control. Getting all ticked off because my wife wants to leave shows that I'm ungrateful and probably a control freak.

 

I've heard of stories where divorcing spouses harm their leaving spouse. I've heard one story where a spouse took a chain saw and cut everything because that way it would be split 50/50.

 

To me, that is like the unhappy child that doesn't get their way, so they are going to cause chaos to let the world know they are not happy.

 

I've reached Acceptance. I am not half-of-a-man because my estranged wife is not with me. I can live on my own without a wife and enjoy life.

 

If I'm wasting my time on this forum, I'll eventually realize that and just fade away. With 6 kids and a full time job, I have a busy schedule, so I'm not going to miss posting on here if I go away. But for now, I'll hang around and make a comment from time to time.

 

Thanks for your comments and questions. I hope something in our dialogue helps the OP make it through his situation

[MJJean]

LancasterAmos1966, hello! First, I'd like to say you sound like a truly wonderful person. You know, the kind of guy that dogs and babies adore simply because there is this unpolluted goodness inside. It's humbling, really.

 

I am nothing if not practical. 6 kids is a very big family in modern times and providing for the lot of them has got to be expensive in terms of money and time as well as mental and emotional wear and tear.

 

I don't know your financial situation, but providing for her needs can't be cheap. It seems like paying her rent and healthcare costs is taking money from the kids. Saved, that money could provide for the kids college educations or vocational/ technical training, it could help them cover the costs of weddings or a home purchase, maybe an addition onto the house or an extra bathroom..

 

I understand what you're saying about the vows and your personal honor, but don't you think the children's current and future needs should trump the needs of the parent who abandoned them?

 

I understand wanting to help your WW get on her feet once you understood the marriage was dead, but I think 10 years is a bit long. Heck, with you paying her rent and healthcare, in 4-5 years she could have worked part time and gotten a degree that would net her a decent salary.

 

Also, just because we can doesn't mean we should. By paying her major expenses, you're allowing her to remain dependent on you. She hasn't learned how to stand on her own two feet and live within her actual means or be motivated to increase her means. As a parent you know how vital it is for children to experience consequences so that they learn. Learning is a lifelong process and adults must experience consequences to learn and grow, too.

 

If your wife were to file for divorce, would you consider the marriage ended and yourself free to date and remarry?

 

Have you checked into state law regarding divorce and separation? In my state, 19 years of marriage entitles the no/low income spouse to lifetime alimony. However, if the couple meets the requirements for legal separation before that benchmark, any alimony is set based on the time the couple lived as man and wife.

 

So, have you legally protected yourself and your assets in case she files?

[LancasterAmos1966]

MJJean: LancasterAmos1966, hello! First, I'd like to say you sound like a truly wonderful person. You know, the kind of guy that dogs and babies adore simply because there is this unpolluted goodness inside. It's humbling, really.

 

Me: And a big hello to you too!!

 

Well, thank you very much for your kind words. But really, I don't see myself any different than the spouse that goes into a coma or a severe life-altering health crisis --- and the healthy spouse simply cares for him/her until the end.

 

There's no intimacy ever again, there's no way the sickly spouse can give anything to the relationship. But the healthy spouse hangs in there for the duration. It's not always easy, they might need a break, they might need to utilize a nursing home, but they have a commitment to their spouse. They will not date, file divorce, or remarry until their marriage has truly ended.

 

I'm not worthy of any pats on the back for simply honoring my promise. My wife married a guy who values his word. Too bad she chose to not honor her word too.

 

 

 

I am nothing if not practical. 6 kids is a very big family in modern times and providing for the lot of them has got to be expensive in terms of money and time as well as mental and emotional wear and tear.

 

Dave Ramsey (google will help) helped me with some practical tips on not having credit card debt, house debt, etc. I'm not rich, I mostly live paycheck to paycheck, and I drive older vehicles.

 

I could find a few reasons to complain, but no one really enjoys being around a complainer. So, I'm going to do my best to look on the bright side.

 

Yesterday, I said I consider the glass to be half-full, instead of half-empty.

 

But when I wrote that yesterday, one reply was: "You are not seeing the glass as half full, you are delusional and seeing mirages and hallucinations."

 

Haha, that is funny to me.

 

That comment will not change my opinion. I'm going to help my wife for the full 10 years, unless she says "stop" or I happen to not be able to earn enough to do it.

 

And to go one step further, if I ever have enough cash to share with her, then I'll send her a check, just because I want to. But after 10 years, I'm not planning on making any additional commitments.

 

 

 

I don't know your financial situation, but providing for her needs can't be cheap. It seems like paying her rent and healthcare costs is taking money from the kids. Saved, that money could provide for the kids college educations or vocational/ technical training, it could help them cover the costs of weddings or a home purchase, maybe an addition onto the house or an extra bathroom..

 

My wife and I adopted 3 kids that have some challenges; they really won't be able to do the college scene.

 

My 3 biological kids are young adults that all have full time jobs, so they are content earning a paycheck.

 

Since I'm big on saving something from every paycheck, they all have some money in the bank, and they just bought a fixer-upper house and paid cash. They will now work OT over the next few years to repair the house. I'm proud of them!!

 

And I'm already reading articles on the "empty nest" because my intent is for my kids to fly. I won't have a wife to help me through the process, so I want to make sure I'm prepared emotionally for that day when they fly away --- just like I did many years ago.

 

 

 

I understand what you're saying about the vows and your personal honor, but don't you think the children's current and future needs should trump the needs of the parent who abandoned them?

 

I understand wanting to help your WW get on her feet once you understood the marriage was dead, but I think 10 years is a bit long. Heck, with you paying her rent and healthcare, in 4-5 years she could have worked part time and gotten a degree that would net her a decent salary.

 

7 years have already gone by. I "only" have 3 years remaining to go; I'm ok with continuing on with my game plan. I did make it clear that I'd only help as I am able and provided my health was good enough to earn an income. At this point, it sure looks like I can easily wrap up my 10 years.

 

I'm not suggesting others do it my way, or do it this long. When I hear people say "I'll do ANYTHING to save my marriage" --- to me, if that person is really telling the truth, then they will also help their spouse get onto their feet. They'll be kind and loving even if their spouse never returns.

 

But unfortunately, they get tired after 3 or 4 days of waiting, so they hire a lawyer, and we all know the end of the story.

 

Some spouses, I'm sure, would say "no way" to accepting any help. Maybe they have a good job, maybe they had a large settlement, or they just don't want the connection. No problem.

 

My game plan has worked well for me. I have no regrets.

 

 

 

Also, just because we can doesn't mean we should. By paying her major expenses, you're allowing her to remain dependent on you. She hasn't learned how to stand on her own two feet and live within her actual means or be motivated to increase her means. As a parent you know how vital it is for children to experience consequences so that they learn. Learning is a lifelong process and adults must experience consequences to learn and grow, too.

 

Actually, I think she has done a great job living without me.

 

I could have lawyered up, easily proved she abandoned us, and made life more difficult for her.

 

After all these years, I'd say that she is quite capable of living without my help.

 

Not to tell every minute detail, I will say that my help has a phasing-out period. So by the time 10 years arrives, I won't be providing the same amount of support as when I started.

 

That is because I thought exactly what you are saying --- she will eventually need to live without my support; but those beginning years were the time when it was important for me to be involved.

 

Life threw lemons at me, so I'm going to make lemonade.

 

Instead of being angry and bitter, I'm going to be as nice as possible throughout this process.

 

 

 

 

If your wife were to file for divorce, would you consider the marriage ended and yourself free to date and remarry?

 

No, I won't date or remarry. My promise was until death-do-us-part, not until divorce-do-us-part.

 

But please don't misunderstand. She is free from me!! I don't stalk her, I don't call her, I don't write to her. I've released her. She picked up the younger kids on Friday. She had a boyfriend with her. I said "Hi" and went on my way. She is not welcome to enter into my house, and I don't make any nasty comments to her. That would prove that I'm holding onto someone that wants to be set free.

 

Being firm in my faith, I choose to obey rules even when they are not convenient to obey.

 

I happen to believe that divorce is not permitted, for any reason, is the teaching of the Bible. I'm probably the odd-ball; but that's what I happen to believe.

 

That topic would be require another thread; and I did not come on here to debate marriage/divorce/remarriage.

 

I just know very firmly what I believe, and I have no intention of changing my mind. Nor am I on a mission to change the opinions of my fellow travelers.

 

 

 

 

Have you checked into state law regarding divorce and separation? In my state, 19 years of marriage entitles the no/low income spouse to lifetime alimony. However, if the couple meets the requirements for legal separation before that benchmark, any alimony is set based on the time the couple lived as man and wife.

 

So, have you legally protected yourself and your assets in case she files?

 

 

I bought her out for our properties; Her signature is notarized on a post-nuptial contract that she voluntarily signed years after we separated.

 

Would it be legally better to be divorced?? Probably, but since I am not able to do that, I did 2nd best.

 

And again, someone might call me a "Chump" --- but just marrying her was a huge risk -- emotionally, physically, and legally.

 

A thousand different things could have happened to me because I got married.

 

And so, after the dust settled, I think I have a lot to be thankful for.

 

I have 20 years of great marriage memories.

I have 6 wonderful kids that all live with me.

I have some cash in my wallet.

I have recovered from the rejection.

 

Maybe things will go south tomorrow, but that is life. I've prepared as best I can, and if something goes wrong, I'll do my best to stand tall again.

 

I read some of the stories on this forum: The wife leaves, files divorce the next day, takes the husband to the cleaners, he loses custody of his kids, he loses friends, he winds up feeling hopeless.....and according to the statistics, suicide and divorce is an epidemic in our society, with divorced/separated men committing suicide at a very high rate. (Google will give statistics.)

 

And here I am --- living a cozy life. Yes, I'm doing it solo, but I have much to be thankful for.

 

Will my method work for everyone in the world?? No way.

 

But I've read enough books to realize that moving on and recovery will not take place when one is angry, bitter, and holding onto revenge.

Edited November 6, 2016 by LancasterAmos1966

[Just a Guy]

Hi Lancaster, thanks for the many clarifications that you have given in response to my post and that of others. I have only one more clarification to ask you. You have repeatedly brought up the point that you spent twenty plus happily married years with your wife before she left you and you talked of being estranged from her. However that statement excluded the mention of the fact that she had started cheating on you while still living with you and her subsequent departure was triggered by your finding out about her nefarious activities. In one of your subsequent clarifications you did finally mention this point. My point in bringing up this fact is that if your wife had simply got tired of living with you and wanted to separate as there have been a very few cases on this forum, it would have been an entirely different ball game. In those circumstances one can, to some extent understand your contention, that as you two were still married but living apart, you were supporting her with funds because she was still your wife in every way except that she did not live with you. However, your wife broke every vow she ever made to you when she cheated on you (and if you want to apply the analogy of her still being your wife because you have not divorced her) continues to cheat on you seven years after leaving you, then since marriage is a contract and like any other contract entered into by humans, becomes null and void once one or the other partner reneges on the terms of the contract ( and infidelity constitutes reneging on the contract entered into at the time of making your vows) then by rights you are a free man and whether you want to labour the point that for you the marriage still holds or not, you are legally and morally free of your wife to remarry or date or do whatever else you want to regardless of what her condition or desire may be.

 

I guess I am asking you why you do not consider her infidelity as a sufficient cause to separate yourself completely from her in all respects. You have quoted Biblical precepts to justify your actions but I am sure the Bible would not give you sanction to aid and abet her in committing adultery or would it? This seems a bit of a conundrum to me.

 

Sorry folks I guess we have highjacled Missedup's thread but this discussion also has a bearing on his current plight. However I apologize for the highjack.

[LancasterAmos1966]

 

I guess I am asking you why you do not consider her infidelity as a sufficient cause to separate yourself completely from her in all respects. You have quoted Biblical precepts to justify your actions but I am sure the Bible would not give you sanction to aid and abet her in committing adultery or would it? This seems a bit of a conundrum to me.

 

Sorry folks I guess we have highjacled Missedup's thread but this discussion also has a bearing on his current plight. However I apologize for the highjack.

 

 

 

Just a Guy, you are welcome; and thank you for being polite and respectful in your comments & questions. This discussion should help the OP decide on whether he is willing to do "anything" to save his marriage.

 

Prior to my estranged wife moving out, I made my own bedroom because I knew what was happening....at least I suspected it. It's not like I caught her in the act, but coming in at 3 or 4am, staying out for some weekends, bringing a guy or two home to the front porch, etc. was enough for me to confront her. She said the guys were just friends. I told her that she has changed, and until she becomes the wife I married, we are going to be roommates.

 

Once I made my new bedroom, she moved out within a few months. I guess she knew I was not going to accept her new way of life, and she probably felt guilty walking by me every day.

 

She was adamant on doing life her way, without any regard for me or our family. That was her choice.

 

Concerning the Bible:

 

In the book of 1st Corinthians 7, I'm under no obligation once a spouse walks out the door. Even though I'm under no obligation to help her, there is no clear statement that divorce/remarriage is Ok. It's ok to stop helping a wayward spouse, but it's not ok to file divorce and remarry.

 

This was a hot topic in many churches, but for the most part, it's now taught that divorce/remarriage is ok if there is any kind of abuse, addiction, abandonment, pornography.

 

But, those reasons are difficult to hang onto when we follow the teachings of Jesus: He made some "wild" demands of his followers. Just google Matthew 5, 6, and 7 -- that's where many of these "wild" rules are found.

 

If someone hits you on one side of the face, turn the other cheek so they can hit that side too. (This is why, when I turned 18, I went to the post office and signed the form for Selective Service. I am a CO -- Conscientious Objector. I'll sweep floors and make lunch in the military if drafted, but I'm not able to harm another human by killing them.)

 

If sued for your topcoat, voluntarily give your sweater too.

 

If demanded to carry a Roman guards field pack for a mile, voluntarily carry it for 2 miles.

 

Love your enemies (How does one show love to their enemy?? In my case, I chose to help support my new enemy for a period of time. My estranged wife surely is not my friend -- I consider her to be my enemy -- so in whatever way I can, I'm supposed to love her. For me personally, this doesn't mean sending her valentines cards and flowers; this means to set her free in love, and also give her a fighting chance to make it on her own by offering her some financial support for a period of time. )

 

Bless them that curse you. (She has cursed me too. So, how do I bless her?? Well, let's see. How about offering to help her out with health insurance and some financial income for awhile. )

 

Pray for them that take advantage of you. (Yep, she has surely taken advantage of me. I don't pray for her daily, but I still pray for her from time to time.)

 

Then, the Bible talks about telling the truth --- and that all liars will eventually be very severely judged. In my case, I consider my vow/promise to binding "until death do us part." I want to pay all of my taxes that are due, I want to stop at all red lights, and I want to tell the truth. No little white lies, no black lies -- haha -- no lies at all. Just because my wife is a liar, I refuse to stoop to her level.

 

And since Jesus said that I must love my enemies, I just don't see where a divorce certificate fits into that equation. If my wife wants to file divorce, then so be it. But for me to file divorce, for any reason, would not be obeying the "love your enemy" rule.

 

Another rule that Jesus mentioned is that I'm supposed to forgive 70 x 7 times for the same crime. See what I mean about some of his rules being "wild"? (Matthew 18).

 

And there's no way that I'd ever keep track of 490 incidents of adultery. I think there should be consequences for her actions. That's why I made a separate bedroom. But for me to divorce her is not something that fits in with the teachings of the Bible.

 

Jesus calls his followers to a higher standard of living and conduct.

 

If others want to file divorce and get remarried. That's their choice.

 

But in my case, I'm going to wait this one out. If God wants me to have a wife in my arms, my faith is strong enough to believe that He will provide whatever He wants in my life.