What does 'spiritual' mean?

[Ronni_W]

... angry Buddhists ... angry Christians.

Also. ...angry atheists ...angry Jews ...angry Muslims ...angry agnostics. Angry people of all races, creeds and religions, and of no religion.

I think if you look at the spiritual "quality" of both Buddhist and Christian teachings they are both high - and promote compassion, love, understanding, moral behavior etc etc.

Yes, exactly! This is true for all true, pure religious and spiritual Teachings. None of them promote hatred and violence. It is only from the 'human Being' side of Life - NOT the true spiritual side - that conflict and war can seem desirable, and like a valid and viable option.

But that doesn't mean people follow what the teachings say. It's about the pattern of behavior they follow - not about which religion they belong to.

Yes, exactly! Just like we cannot say that ALL Christians necessarily agree with or have the fallen-lower consciousness and the desires and the hatred of the Crusaders, we also cannot say that ALL practitioners - or people who merely claim to be practitioners - of any given faith or religion necessarily agree with or have the fallen-lower consciousness and the desires and the hatred of a minority sub-set that have set themselves up as and are trying to present themselves as the spokespersons for and true-and-proper interpreters of the true, pure Teachings that they claim to follow.

 

If we look at all the major religions of today, it is evident that such a sub-set exists in all of them. Whether it's excluding women from serving at the highest levels in the Church, or whatever else, there is a very visible sub-set that is filled with animosity and hatred - and, thus, they do not represent and they are not practicing the pure, true Teachings upon which their religion was meant to be founded. They are delusional to think that.

 

As you said, Justanaverageguy, it's about the pattern of behaviour that we [actually do] follow - not the dogma and doctrines that we merely claim to follow.

[Ronni_W]

The goal of spirituality is thus to live in tune with ... "christ consciousness". ... exploring and expressing the same glorious pattern of "god".

Oddly or weirdly or 'synchronistically' enough... I was searching something completely different (about the 'Book of Revelation'), when I came upon this enlightening (to me) explanation of The Origin of the Christ.

 

So, I should really love to thank basil67 for starting this thread, and Justanaverageguy for your valuable contribution in providing points for contemplation and further learning and spiritual growth. .

[darkmoon]

you ignored half my comment

 

$300 dollars to think you can be a royal

 

the blind belief that a gold bar could materialise

[TheWoman]

I would use the word spiritual, when what really I mean is non-duality, it also encompasses mindfulness and gratitude.

 

Its a catch all phrase, that simply explains that I do consider existential concepts but not in a traditional way.

[Ronni_W]

you ignored half my comment

 

$300 dollars to think you can be a royal

 

the blind belief that a gold bar could materialise

darkmoon,

Of course your observation is correct: many, many, many people are suffering under the delusions and illusions of duality consciousness.

This suffering is not restricted to people who believe themselves to be religious or spiritual, though; nor is it restricted to any particular branch of religion or spirituality. Unfortunately, atheists and agnostics are suffering, too.

 

People of all faiths and backgrounds tend to believe what they want to believe; whether it's that they are mentally, spiritually or emotionally unworthy or inferior,

or whether it's that they can buy a royal title, or buy their way into Heaven or Nirvana.

 

Materialization is a different matter; there is evidence that this is possible. But, you are correct that we will not get there through mere blind belief or faith without true knowledge and Wisdom. (In physics labs, quantum particles are materializing all the time; so, we know that the scientific principles already exist.)

[darkmoon]

darkmoon,

Of course your observation is correct: many, many, many people are suffering under the delusions and illusions of duality consciousness.

This suffering is not restricted to people who believe themselves to be religious or spiritual, though; nor is it restricted to any particular branch of religion or spirituality. Unfortunately, atheists and agnostics are suffering, too.

 

People of all faiths and backgrounds tend to believe what they want to believe; whether it's that they are mentally, spiritually or emotionally unworthy or inferior,

or whether it's that they can buy a royal title, or buy their way into Heaven or Nirvana.

 

Materialization is a different matter; there is evidence that this is possible. But, you are correct that we will not get there through mere blind belief or faith without true knowledge and Wisdom. (In physics labs, quantum particles are materializing all the time; so, we know that the scientific principles already exist.)

 

You mention everything except for the specific blatant greed and irresponsiblity of Buddhism and its western teachers.

 

Sheesh! Believing specifically that you could become a royal and paying $300 for it? or get a gold bar to appear out of thin air?

 

If your friend was a victim of that - how would you react?

I would ask for a refund and try to get them to see sense - and you?

[Ronni_W]

You mention everything except for the specific blatant greed and irresponsiblity of Buddhism and its western teachers.

darkmoon,

What both Justanaverageguy and I have been trying to convey - although, apparently, not too successfully - is that false teachers are not confined to just Bhuddism or how or by whom it is taught in the West.

 

However, no matter what faith the false teachers claim to represent, only the already-gullible or vulnerable will just blindly follow their teachings, directions and instructions. The followers are choosing to see only what they want to see and to believe only what they want to believe, and are also refusing to take responsibility for using their own logic and making the best decisions based on their own logic and reasoning.

 

When friends or family fall victim to their own gullibility or vulnerability, from a higher perspective, it's that there is something for them to learn for their own spiritual, emotional or mental growth. At the highest level, we should not want to influence, interfere with or violate other people's free will decisions and choices - no matter if we can see the fallacies of the false teachers, and their greed and deception. We should not want to interfere with other people's spiritual, emotional or mental lessons and growth. They will come to their higher level of consciousness in their own way, in their own time. (Most people can't help interfering - under the label of 'love' or 'caring' or whatever - but, there you have it.)

[darkmoon]

darkmoon,

What both Justanaverageguy and I have been trying to convey - although, apparently, not too successfully - is that false teachers are not confined to just Bhuddism or how or by whom it is taught in the West.

 

However, no matter what faith the false teachers claim to represent, only the already-gullible or vulnerable will just blindly follow their teachings, directions and instructions. The followers are choosing to see only what they want to see and to believe only what they want to believe, and are also refusing to take responsibility for using their own logic and making the best decisions based on their own logic and reasoning.

 

When friends or family fall victim to their own gullibility or vulnerability, from a higher perspective, it's that there is something for them to learn for their own spiritual, emotional or mental growth. At the highest level, we should not want to influence, interfere with or violate other people's free will decisions and choices - no matter if we can see the fallacies of the false teachers, and their greed and deception. We should not want to interfere with other people's spiritual, emotional or mental lessons and growth. They will come to their higher level of consciousness in their own way, in their own time. (Most people can't help interfering - under the label of 'love' or 'caring' or whatever - but, there you have it.)

 

Hey! You ignored half of my comment. I will bold the half you ignored. Please respond to the two questions particularly.

 

You mention everything except for the specific blatant greed and irresponsiblity of Buddhism and its western teachers.

 

Sheesh! Believing specifically that you could become a royal and paying $300 for it? or get a gold bar to appear out of thin air?

If your friend was a victim of that - how would you react?

I would ask for a refund and try to get them to see sense - and you?

Edited January 23, 2017 by darkmoon

[Ronni_W]

<snip>

If your friend was a victim of that - how would you react?

I would ask for a refund and try to get them to see sense - and you?

darkmoon,

As I said, people only see what they want to see...and, people can only see what their own consciousness is ready for them to see.

 

My response to those two questions is as I have already stated: my friend's free will choices and decisions are, in truth and reality, none of my business; so, there is nothing to which I can, properly, react. To add further: It is not my (your) responsibility or obligation to get them a refund.

As for helping people to 'see sense' - again, people can only see what their own consciousness is ready for them to see.

 

Your questions were answered by both Justanaverageguy and myself; it truly is that you were not ignored.

 

I keep hearing about people being 'spiritual' as opposed to being religious. What does being spiritual mean? And how do you experience it?

So, again - thanks, basil67, for starting this thread. For me, 'being spiritual' means that I can draw from the entire compendium of the pure, true Teachings upon which all religions were meant to be founded; the universal Laws and Principles. As Justanaverageguy has been saying, the underlying spirit and message of all of them is the same; it's only how human Beings - the false leaders and teachers - have used people's fears and insecurities to set themselves and their religions apart from and against each other.

 

In Love and Light.

Ronni

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

Come into the woods with me and eat some mushrooms. I can show you your soul and make you a believer.

[Justanaverageguy]

Sheesh! Believing specifically that you could become a royal and paying $300 for it? or get a gold bar to appear out of thin air?

If your friend was a victim of that - how would you react?

I would ask for a refund and try to get them to see sense - and you?

 

darkmoon,

My response to those two questions is as I have already stated: my friend's free will choices and decisions are, in truth and reality, none of my business; so, there is nothing to which I can, properly, react. To add further: It is not my (your) responsibility or obligation to get them a refund.

As for helping people to 'see sense' - again, people can only see what their own consciousness is ready for them to see.

Ronni

 

I agree with Ronni's point. I see life as a process to constantly evolve our consciousness. Unfortunately one of the difficult parts from that is - making mistakes - dealing with the consequences - then learning from them. This is probably the most painful part of life - it certainly has been for me - but also the most powerful. It is how we learn and improve.

 

Trying to help guide others on their path - friends, family, children - its a delicate balance. We have to try and be wise and recognize when others need and want assistance - and when trying to force assistance or our view on others is not going to help and can actually make matters worse. If your friend is convinced she is royal and can create gold out of thin air - trying to attack and challenge her views now whilst she believes the process was real - then force her to get a refund when she doesn't want to - may simply strengthen and galvanize her beliefs.

 

Its a relatively harmless belief currently and $300 is not a lot of cash - so allowing the situation to play out naturally will likely bring her to the conclusion that physical gold can't be manufactured out of thin air and she has been frauded. It may make her wiser to the methods of spiritual hucksters and frauds and prevent her from falling into the traps of corrupt and false teachers in future. Some of these future situations could potentially be more dangerous or take much larger amounts of money.

 

If you intervene forcefully and prevent the process from playing out - you deny her that simple lesson and learning meaning she can fall victim to the same thing in future.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Justanaverageguy