Does a man love his wife while he cheats?

[BluesPower]

No it is all too possible. Been there done that.

 

When my marriage was at it's worst, I cheated, a lot. Still loved her, still do, and always will.

[Got it]

No I didn't love my ex husband the way he deserved to be loved when I had my affair which is why I divorced.

 

My husband did not love his wife during the affair as he said he wasn't in love with her since her affair.

[sandylee1]

It's true that love means different things or is displayed in different ways.

 

I think if you have a lot of money and see your spouse scrounging for money you can't really love them. Yet the rich spouse swears they love the other.

 

Same as if you abuse your spouse I don't think you really love them ... because how could you hurt someone who you love like that .... yet abusers say they love their spouse.

 

I've found that many people had poor displays of loveas a child and just don't know what love is. Or how to show love, because it's something they never received growing up.

[Confused9999]

All situations are different so we can't make vast generalizations.

 

However to put it in simpler terms I think men in general have a strong ability to compartmentalize and usually have different priorities then women.

They may love their wives, love their lifestyle, love their kids/family, love their status in society,etc.. etc.. and don't want to break that up.

But they may also want action, excitement on the side, maybe bored at home. May not be getting sex from their wives, etc.. so they get into an affair.

 

Eventually they can even be in love with their AP but that does not necessarily mean that they will sacrifice everything for that love.

 

Women on the other hand typically get involved in affairs because they are not happy with their relationships or home life and to them love is worth that risk of loss and go all in in for the affair assuming the MM is planning the same based on their mutual feelings.

[deep_night]

love love is a verb, love is a doing word. you love as long as it's written all over one's actions, it's not a theoretical situation or state of being. to love is to ACTIVELY make your spouse's well being THE priority. it's not easy to love.

[Grapesofwrath]

I agree that there is no black & white answer to this question. I will submit this one additional thought for your consideration:

 

After one weekend, about 6 months in to the A, the xMM and I met for lunch. He told me that he'd had a difficult weekend because his wife had asked him if he was having an affair. (Clearly she noticed a change in him and her intuition lead her to ask the question.) I don't know what he said to her, exactly, but he denied it, lied, and gaslighted her.

 

I asked him if he wanted to end it, and he said no. That was when my feelings for him started to change. I imagined him comforting her, all the while lying through his teeth. Telling her she was imagining things. Reassuring her that it was just stress at work. Convincing her that he could NEVER do something like that to her because he loves her so much.

 

Does that sound like love to any of you? Doesn't to me. It sounds like disdain. Contempt. Abuse.

[Midwestmissy]

Happened to me. But he didn't comfort me, he railed at me about having too much time on my hands, being delusional, controlling, disrespecting his family (uh, what?) etc etc. He held his phone over his head and told me to stay out of his s&$&t. Shocking behaviour. It enabled him to storm out the door and get his phone fix with her. Her role was to tell him he was a good person no matter what he did. Like she had a pile of 'participation' ribbons to hand him just for existing. No challenging, no excellence, just cooing. Sex was probably the currency they exchanged to keep it going.

 

His love for me, or whatever the heck you want to call it, was taking a backseat to his self loathing and lack of self respect. I believe in his case, this wasn't an ego boost as much as it was misery loves company. Finding an equally self loathing totally disrespectful woman to keep him company was pretty easy work. Low hanging fruit (I'm not describing all ow, just the one I had the pleasure of having in my marriage), the injured animal trailing the rest of the pack. They didn't love anybody. He said he viewed me like a parent during the affair - he used me as a stable landing pad, raged at me, and knew he could come home (when I didn't know). My love for him was never in doubt and he used my commitment and high standards (his words) to his benefit. The mow didn't have those things - serial cheater - and neither did he. He did tell me during a rage that if he was going to cheat, it wasn't going to be with a hillbilly with no class, he worked with highly educated lawyers and hedge fund managers. Hah. I remember saying that anyone with class and breeding (his word) wasn't going to sleep with a married man, so he was only going to have a very shallow pool from which to pick. He stormed out the door. Not the behaviour of a faithful man. It's amazing looking back how he behaved and how we spoke to each other.

 

Interestingly, in the family business, she was a punch line and not respected. I do wonder how much of his venom was aimed at his mother during the affair. And frankly, the mow's venom or spite too. He put the whole company at risk and screamed that I hated his family. No love to go around, just a constant feeling of having to always back out of a room so you could see where the next blow was coming from.

[dichotomy]

People are different - in their views of sex and love. My wife views sex as sex, and also feels she can love more than one person at a time - Polyamory. She came to this thinking kind of after finding out her dad had been cheating on her mom with many women for decades. I think she could not face the idea that her dad did not love her mom and his family enough to not cheat. My wife also had major self esteem and validation issues.

 

My problem - if its a problem - is that I tend to view sex and love together (although I have had just sex). I also find it nearly impossible to love more than one woman - I am an "all in" kind of lover. Its also the reason I have not cheated despite all my wife has taken away from me. I can't just get some on the side - I would probably end up "all in" with another woman- and I can't do that to my life and my family.

 

I think in some rare circumstances, a person in a other wise committed marriage can be deprived of affection, sex, etc... and seek this out. Reasons might be sexual dysfunction of their partner due to emotional, psychological, or medical reasons. In some of these situations we can say the spouse loves their spouse and life, but is deprived (starved) in one specific area of their life. They get that need filled elsewhere. Usually what happens with many cheaters is that "one need" gets messed up into "other needs and wants" and the affair blows up. Sex and love get mixed in these blow ups.

 

However I think in the majority of cheaters - they love themselves more than anyone, or they are simply needy, validation seeking, ego driven, selfish, or have a brain chemical dopamine addiction.

 

One last thought about cheaters - I think they hide their affair for two reasons 1) They would loose their life = kids, home, money, community, friends. 2) They would loose the love and respect of their spouse because they know that cheating is the opposite of love to their partner. Many WS after Dday have to live with the idea that their BS (and maybe their kids) simply will never love them or respect them like they once did. Cheating = lost love.

Edited October 4, 2016 by dichotomy

[cocorico]

 

My points is, when someone is truly no longer in love with their spouse and they find someone that they click with better (or at least thinks they do) they often pack up and leave in a very short period of time. Sometimes literally days (I personally know two different people that left their spouse within days of getting with their AP)

 

When you hear of these affairs that go on for a year or more, or hear about these serial cheaters that have been hooking up with multiple people over the course of years or even the whole duration of the marriage - those are cake eaters that the stability of a spouse in the home and don't want the expense or drama of a divorce. They simply want to have the nice home life and tear off some extra poontang on the side.

 

That probably makes up the vast majority of garden variety cheaters of both men and women.

 

The people that are truly out of love and truly unhappy with their spouse, leave once they find a better replacement and that often takes place in a matter of weeks or a few months.

 

Anyone involved in an ongoing affair with one person for more than several months, and/or the people that hook up with multiple people over time are cake eaters that do want to remain in the marriage with their spouse... they just want more poon.

 

There are several of us here that prove this wrong. A number of us had EMRs lasting over years, including someone who updated just recently about a 10 year EMR, where the MM left the BW and is now M to the fOW. I'd be very suspicious of a MM who dumped his BW for me within days, or weeks - it would be clear to me that he was just using me as a ride out of an unhappy M, because he couldn't possibly know me well enough within that time to decide to upend his kids' lives to pursue a future with me. If a MM left so quickly it would clearly be about his failed M, not about our R, to me - and I wouldn't allow myself to be used like that.

[cocorico]

I personally think that he does not love her, even if he claims he does. How can you say that you love when you hurt that person? If he truly loved her, he would never ever think of being with another woman (even though it's for the sex only). More, he never loved his wife in the first place.

 

What's your opinion?

 

I'm not sure I'd agree he necessarily never loved the BW in the first place, I'd guess that in some cases he did, and in others he didn't. But I find it hard to consider having an EMR with someone else as "love" for the BS.

 

My H certainly didn't love his XBW during the A, whatever he may have rationalised to himself. He cared about her to some degree, hence his delay in telling her about loving someone else, and he felt bound by his promise to protect her against the horrible world... but any love (if there had ever been any) had long fallen victim to the way she treated him, his family and the kids over the years.

[Got it]

I'm not sure I'd agree he necessarily never loved the BW in the first place, I'd guess that in some cases he did, and in others he didn't. But I find it hard to consider having an EMR with someone else as "love" for the BS.

 

My H certainly didn't love his XBW during the A, whatever he may have rationalised to himself. He cared about her to some degree, hence his delay in telling her about loving someone else, and he felt bound by his promise to protect her against the horrible world... but any love (if there had ever been any) had long fallen victim to the way she treated him, his family and the kids over the years.

 

I agree with this. I absolutely loved my ex husband for a number of years. No question there. But with time filled with failed promises, sexual issues, conflict avoiding, and resentments the love died. I would say the last year or two I was not in love with my ex. I know when we adopted our dogs I did so thinking it would, one, get him out of the house and getting exercise, and someone/thing there to give him emotional support instead of me. There were a few other moments that where highlighted for me that were moving me towards the acceptance of divorcing. But falling out of love took time, it wasn't an immediate thing. But I know I did love him for many many years.

[seren]

I know H told me that during the A he never stopped loving me, I tell him, I would rather he hated me when the A was ongoing as how can anyone treat the person they love the way cheaters do. He says, he had his head up his backside and that he hated himself during that time, the A only helped to validate that self hate even more. OW thought he loved her, the rational being that he must love her to cheat on me with her as our marriage was often held up as the one others wanted. We were that couple that held hands, laughed, loved and liked after such a long time together.

 

Through counselling H has faced his dragons and has come to the understanding that me, our marriage, our love were so good he thought he didn't deserve them, or to be happy (He had combat stress and PTSD). He maintains he never stopped loving me, he just felt he didn't deserve us. Personally, I always hoped he would say he fell madly in love with the OW, that she meant the moon on a stick to him and that he had no feeling for me. I could better understand that, than him knowing how an A would floor me and still doing it. But he says it wasn't like that for him, he actually despises the OW as much as he despises the person he was then.

 

Certainly while the A was ongoing he seemed stressed, but we still laughed, loved, liked and planned as much as we always had, otherwise I would have suspected there was an A. I hate compartmentalising, It enables an A to continue, I would rather those in an A didn't do that, but looked at it all in the cold, hard light of day, no excuses, no blaming the BS, but in the face and owned it. But each and every person is different, I am sure some didn't love their BS, some did, but ultimately it doesn't matter as they all hurt just the same. For me it is always actions not words that matter.

[Arieswoman]

Grapes #31

 

(Clearly she noticed a change in him and her intuition lead her to ask the question.) I don't know what he said to her, exactly, but he denied it, lied, and gaslighted her.

 

I asked him if he wanted to end it, and he said no. That was when my feelings for him started to change. I imagined him comforting her, all the while lying through his teeth. Telling her she was imagining things. Reassuring her that it was just stress at work. Convincing her that he could NEVER do something like that to her because he loves her so much.

 

Does that sound like love to any of you? Doesn't to me. It sounds like disdain. Contempt. Abuse.

 

And having been on the other side of this, yes, it is abuse.

 

It's been said before on these forums that it often isn't the cheating that causes the hurt to the BS, as much as the lies, gaslighting and future faking.

 

I don't believe you can love someone while at the same time trying to distort their reality by f***ing with their mind for your own ends.

[wmacbride]

I know H told me that during the A he never stopped loving me, I tell him, I would rather he hated me when the A was ongoing as how can anyone treat the person they love the way cheaters do. He says, he had his head up his backside and that he hated himself during that time, the A only helped to validate that self hate even more. OW thought he loved her, the rational being that he must love her to cheat on me with her as our marriage was often held up as the one others wanted. We were that couple that held hands, laughed, loved and liked after such a long time together.

 

Through counselling H has faced his dragons and has come to the understanding that me, our marriage, our love were so good he thought he didn't deserve them, or to be happy (He had combat stress and PTSD). He maintains he never stopped loving me, he just felt he didn't deserve us. Personally, I always hoped he would say he fell madly in love with the OW, that she meant the moon on a stick to him and that he had no feeling for me. I could better understand that, than him knowing how an A would floor me and still doing it. But he says it wasn't like that for him, he actually despises the OW as much as he despises the person he was then.

 

Certainly while the A was ongoing he seemed stressed, but we still laughed, loved, liked and planned as much as we always had, otherwise I would have suspected there was an A. I hate compartmentalising, It enables an A to continue, I would rather those in an A didn't do that, but looked at it all in the cold, hard light of day, no excuses, no blaming the BS, but in the face and owned it. But each and every person is different, I am sure some didn't love their BS, some did, but ultimately it doesn't matter as they all hurt just the same. For me it is always actions not words that matter.

 

Same here.

From what the counselors and psychologists/psychiatrists my H saw on his own and the ones we saw together related to his PTSD, this is really common, and not just in the military. First responders and others who have careers with a high chance of developing PTSD are also highly prone to having affairs, and many of them do love their spouses.

Mind you, at the point in time that they are cheating, it's not the kind of love that anyone needs.

[kckc]

I think it's more about lack of respect than love

 

 

Is there love with no respect?

[cocorico]

Is there love with no respect?

 

Not the kind of love I'd be interested in

[elaine567]

Happened to me. But he didn't comfort me, he railed at me about having too much time on my hands, being delusional, controlling, disrespecting his family (uh, what?) etc etc. He held his phone over his head and told me to stay out of his s&$&t. Shocking behaviour. It enabled him to storm out the door and get his phone fix with her. Her role was to tell him he was a good person no matter what he did. Like she had a pile of 'participation' ribbons to hand him just for existing. No challenging, no excellence, just cooing. Sex was probably the currency they exchanged to keep it going.

 

His love for me, or whatever the heck you want to call it, was taking a backseat to his self loathing and lack of self respect. I believe in his case, this wasn't an ego boost as much as it was misery loves company. Finding an equally self loathing totally disrespectful woman to keep him company was pretty easy work. Low hanging fruit (I'm not describing all ow, just the one I had the pleasure of having in my marriage), the injured animal trailing the rest of the pack. They didn't love anybody. He said he viewed me like a parent during the affair - he used me as a stable landing pad, raged at me, and knew he could come home (when I didn't know). My love for him was never in doubt and he used my commitment and high standards (his words) to his benefit. The mow didn't have those things - serial cheater - and neither did he. He did tell me during a rage that if he was going to cheat, it wasn't going to be with a hillbilly with no class, he worked with highly educated lawyers and hedge fund managers. Hah. I remember saying that anyone with class and breeding (his word) wasn't going to sleep with a married man, so he was only going to have a very shallow pool from which to pick. He stormed out the door. Not the behaviour of a faithful man. It's amazing looking back how he behaved and how we spoke to each other.

 

Interestingly, in the family business, she was a punch line and not respected. I do wonder how much of his venom was aimed at his mother during the affair. And frankly, the mow's venom or spite too. He put the whole company at risk and screamed that I hated his family. No love to go around, just a constant feeling of having to always back out of a room so you could see where the next blow was coming from.

 

How do you ever forgive all of that?

[Midwestmissy]

It's been 2 years since the truth came out. He's done a lot of therapy and sees what and why and how. Every bad decision he made he projected back on me. Consequences are for weaklings. So are emotions. His behaviour during the affair was so markedly different than in the 25 years I've known him. He was almost manic in his obsession with showing the world how happy he was. Very bizarre. He had started helping his mother with her business and basically started acting like her. He totally sees himself in her -back then. She's a pretender and he seemed to revert back to pleasing her after having individuated since he was 20. All due to unrealized expectations in himself, failed goals, etc. He was disappointed in himself, decided that I was disappointed in him, claimed I was never happy no matter what he did and said to hell with it, my wife doesn't care about me. His actions were the result of those beliefs. He easily found someone with low standards who didn't care how selfish he behaved and he thought that was awesome for a bit.

 

Good therapy for him has made a difference. He holds himself completely responsible for every decision, but sees now the enmeshment with his mother as a huge problem. She plots thru boundaries and encouraged the same. She flits from relationship to relationship so as not to miss a possible opportunity. He's an entrepreneur always looking for the golden ticket. His therapist told him that the golden ticket is his wife and that I've been there, the answer to getting thru life, the entire time.

 

It's a long road, some days I'm more hopeful than others.

[BluesPower]

So, Midwestmissy, after 2 years and a fairly decent R, are you still not convinced that you two will make it?

 

Just curious...

[Midwestmissy]

Well, it's a dynamic journey, not a linear one. He's all in, I'm reticent sometimes. I don't look at any marriage and think that it's a great one anymore, because one never knows. Secrets and shame destroy from within, subtly and so slowly. Everyone's vulnerable. I didn't live a sheltered life before, but I had never been as screwed over as I was with this affair - I was not only betrayed by wh, but by my in laws too, and the mow was a toxic mess. It was so shocking and it unfolded over months and months, I never got a chance to stand up and dust myself off. I just kept getting hit. And the affair was a nothing 5 or 6 month thing. But man when the lid came off that trash bin, there were so many cockroaches. Panic ensued.

 

I've only been in love once, and it's my wh. Had loads of fun dating etc when I was younger, but this is my only love and I placed a lot of value on it and it was special to me. I had expectations that my husband felt the same way. Most if the time he did. But he did put his needs before mine for a spell.

 

There are factors that would allow me to heal more quickly, but they're not possible right now, so I think that leaves me in a place I'd rather not be. (He travels out of town 3 nights a week) I thought I'd be further along by now. Also, unearthing the deep seated issues in an individual and a marriage takes a long time. On dday, my husband was still blaming me for his failures, the true healing didn't commence right away. The whole truth didn't come out right away. Things we hold onto from childhood, patterns we know suck, roles we have within families - slow reconciliation down. My inlaws didn't want us to stay together, my mil was so thrilled to have seen me knocked off my pedestal because she figured he'd go running back to her, the rightful queen. Very creepy stuff that my wh was blind to (covert incest, not sexual) complicated things. I always thought they supported me and I was so heartbroken by them. Wh had a tough time with that too, but he loves his parents and it's hard for him to accept. It all takes time to process and digest. Wh had never had consequences for idiocy, mil lavished praise on him his whole life, so accepting full blame for this mess was not immediate.

 

Oddly, and this just came to me, no one in my circle or our circle ever said to me "I think you need to leave him. This behaviour doesn't surprise me and you need to get out." No one. And that's kind of a big deal now that I think of it. Hearing the opposite would have impacted me to possibly not reconcile. I knew I'd been blind, so to have had more pointed out to me to protect me would not have been shocking, I'd have appreciated it. As a result, he's accountable to everyone who supported the reconciliation.

 

I wish I'd had therapy in my twenties. But we really accept things we grew up with as normal and come to realize that 'normal' family included depression and personality disorders. I would have been better informed about boundaries and manipulation and listening to my gut, I think. I married my wh and repeated patterns from childhood - he was my choice for a reason, like I was his. We could have been healthier instead of getting walloped in mid life.

[dark water]

There are several of us here that prove this wrong. A number of us had EMRs lasting over years, including someone who updated just recently about a 10 year EMR, where the MM left the BW and is now M to the fOW. I'd be very suspicious of a MM who dumped his BW for me within days, or weeks - it would be clear to me that he was just using me as a ride out of an unhappy M, because he couldn't possibly know me well enough within that time to decide to upend his kids' lives to pursue a future with me. If a MM left so quickly it would clearly be about his failed M, not about our R, to me - and I wouldn't allow myself to be used like that.

 

 

Thank you, Cocorico, that sounds like the voice of reason to me. I got a little scared there reading about WSs that leave their spouses within days of meeting their AP. I think that would be a sign of destructive behaviour and an addictive personality and would make it hard to ever feel like you were on solid ground. Leaving a spouse if that's the right thing should probably take an adjustment period.

 

But back to the original questions. Does the WS actually love the BS if they cheat?

 

My answer would be no, with an asterisk. They may love them in a way, but love as far as I'm concerned is measured by actions, the way you value, and the way you treat the other person. I was in an emotionally abusive on/off relationship for five years with a guy who I know loved me, but the way he treated me was not right, not true love by the standards that I now hold. I look back now and see that he has the capacity to fall in love, but can't follow through. So while I do know that he loved me, I don't believe that he truly loved me.

 

For me, if I love someone, I don't want to cheat, no matter what. And not only do I not want to, but I couldn't fathom doing something knowingly hurtful to that person or willingly destroying the relationship. I think if you cheat, especially on-going, there's a large part of you that either wants the relationship to end, or is at least okay with the relationship ending.

 

I emotionally cheated on a boyfriend years ago, and after I came to the realization of what I was doing and why I was doing it (over the course of four months) I ended it. The realization was that I didn't love him, I couldn't be so close to my male friend and desire him the way I did if I had been in love with my boyfriend.

 

I've been on all sides of it at this point in my life and I've come to the firm stance now that you have to set your own boundaries in love. You can always love someone "in your own way," but if you're capable of hurting them so deeply as to cheat on them, then no, that's not love.

[dark water]

Is there love with no respect?

 

No way, absolutely not! I'd be interested to hear other's opinion about the correlation between love and respect, or the mutual exclusiveness of such, but I don't want to derail this thread.

 

Relating this to the question of loving someone you cheat on, I say there's no way you can love someone you have no respect for, cheating of course being an undeniable sign of disrespect.

[Shepp]

Completely agree with Cyra here!!

 

No he doesn't love her. No one can truly love someone they are cheating on. And I don't see a single if or but where that isn't the case!!

 

 

They might care about her. They might love the life they have together. But they don't love her.

 

Cheating is putting a knife in someones back. Its playing with someones whole life, risking hurting them, risking turning there whole lives upside down. You wouldn't do that to someone you love.

 

All I want to do is protect my wife. I don't want to see anyone hurt her ever. I don't want to ever see her have reason to cry. You cant protect the people you love always, from everything - and that's hard! But you sure as hell can not risk hurting them purely because you put your own selfish needs as #1 priority on your list!

 

I think more than love her they love what she represents. Security, stability, nice house etc. They may care about her, but not love in the meaning that you are talking about. I think if you truly love someone you would not do things behind their back knowing that it would hurt them if they found out

[kckc]

No it is all too possible. Been there done that.

 

When my marriage was at it's worst, I cheated, a lot. Still loved her, still do, and always will.

 

This is very interesting. So, as a person who done that - why did you decide to cheat? And as you say, you loved your wife, but why did you lie to her and put in such an uncomfortable situation?

[BluesPower]

You can read some of the details in my other posts, but I will give you a summery.

 

Come to find out, my wife was a drug addict, hidden drug addict, for 20 years of our 26 year marriage. I finally figured out what was going on about 2 years ago, ironically this was 2 months before she got sober.

 

Until that time, I just thought she was mentally ill, which she kind of was, and I just tried to help her get better. You really cannot imagine how much crazy stuff went on.

 

Anyway, about 5 or 6 years ago, she got so bad that we were not having sex at all. This is a deal breaker for me, but she was just too sick for me to divorce and my kids were still in high school.

 

So, right or wrong, I started seeing other women, a lot. When she had been sober for about 18 months, the sex thing had not changed as of then, I told her that I was done. She asked for another chance, and I gave it to her. So far, it has been rocky but she is really doing a great job in all areas.

 

The thing is that our sex life had always been really great before it was not, and it was the glue as well as the children that held us together. For me when that stopped, I was off to the races.

 

I don't say that it was right, but if a woman gets to the place that she is not having sex with her husband, she should expect for him to get it else where.

 

And for the most part during this time she was comatose so there was not any lying involved for the most part. She knows everything now, and as with any woman that is not happy with me, they are welcome to leave at any time. She chose me and the marriage.

 

As far as love is concerned, I would not have raised 3 children alone, have been the sole bread winner, and taken care of a "Sick" wife for 20 years if I did not love her.

 

I did not love any of the other women that I was with, and I have never loved another woman besides her. And, no matter what she or I have done in our marriage, I still love her.

 

If she fall off the wagon or something, I can live without her with no problem, but so far, she is doing really well.

 

So that is the story...