Mateguarding - When does it end? [update: What to make of this?]

[dreamingoftigers]

The advice was good and your reasoning about doing the least damage to my children and myself included is spot on. However the fact that you are a cheater on the one hand and then on the other advise therapy for issues caused by cheating irritates me. It's like a drunk driver advising the rest of us to take on more automobile coverage. I'll just leave you with this thought: they is at least one person that hates you a whole lot more than you can ever imagine no matter what the look on their face and will mark the day you die with a smile.

 

@Mz_Pixie

 

I was trying to decide what the stupidest thing you said in your latest self righteous rant and I decided on this:

 

 

 

Most normal people don't cheat and especially normal women so the situation I'm in is not normal to begin with.

 

Whether or not "most normal people cheat" doesn't decide what "most normal parents do."

 

Again, removing yourself as a spouse doesn't give you a relatively blank cheque as a parent.

 

If your spouse is completely dysfunctional and causing grievous emotional injury to others, then it's EVEN MORE Important to stay as a present, decent, sane, consistent emotional supportive parent for your daughters.

 

If you are having trouble coping with that, then it would be time to seek counseling to help you through that.

 

Leaving your daughters behind and causing even MORE of a injury in that manner is frankly, reckless and damaging.

 

Again, because you brought your daughters into the world, they should absolutely be your #1. Not China. Not Chinese young women, not whatever fantasy escape you have going for you at the moment.

 

Frankly, I don't think it's going to work for you the way that you think it will beyond a few months.

 

Betrayal is a hard enough pill to swallow, rebuilding is a challenge. But coming to term with the fact that you left your own children in the lurch and have taken off on them, I can't imagine how that is going to feel later on. I think you'll only be able to deflect the blame for so long.

[dreamingoftigers]

Cheater talk and cheater logic! 50% of marriages end in divorce but that doesn't mean 50% of married men or women cheat. Among women, its like 30% so I just grabbed the s_hi_t end of the stick when I picked my cheating wife. I never mentioned it, but her dad and one of her aunts cheated and I remember them - a long time ago! - talking and laughing about it like it was nothing. My parents never cheater. The ironic thing is, her parents stayed married until her mom died and my very Catholic and monogamous parents divorced.

 

Anyway, cheating is far from normal and may or may not have anything to do with divorce. It never occurred to me to cheat - not until now that is! Cause technically it would be cheating if I go to China and "hook up" with a 35 y/o Zheijiang hottie. But still, it is different.

 

Yes, cheating sucks beyond anything I have experienced otherwise in my entire life.

 

But you would be surprised how common it is.

 

I believe it to be a form of abuse frankly.

 

A large part of why I can't imagine you would leave your children with someone the role-models that type of abuse with no opposing way of showing how to be.

 

And yes. 30% of women being cheaters makes it sadly pretty effing common.

 

I understand the mechanics behind it but I do not understand at all HOW people can actually go through it and sit across the breakfast table from their spouses acting like they don't give a F.

 

So how do people successfully navigate through it?

[dreamingoftigers]

I agree with you on the knowledge in the site. Everything I was warned about happened - I just wish I caught it sooner.

 

Here is some information I just got from a lawyer though. True, I should not have attempted R with a woman who would only go so far as to describe her affair as a mistake; a woman who has not once apologized for anything she did. When I found out, she was 8 months from getting her LPN and if I left at that time and withdrew support, maybe she wouldn't have finished as quickly and filed for divorce as an unemployed SAHM with no career options. THAT would have cost me. So for all the great advice, turns out I was wise to stay just maybe I stayed about 4 months too long.

 

I disagree with this though:

 

 

I'm sure you have heard the argument: she broke the contract so the conditions no longer apply. I said this before and I'll say it again: I'm not looking to hookup. If I meet someone that I feel a real attraction to, I will look into it. I'm not talking about a revenge affair. I just want to see whats out there and available to me on my income and my age. Its surprisingly nice! And for what its worth, its helping me through this.

 

I agree with you on the broken contract.

[Noirek]

Now I'm not a law expert and I realize they vary state to state, country to country. But if someone bails on their children during the divorce and what could become custody hearings and spousal support disputes and all that legal stuff, Isn't that going to really come back to bite them? I mean where I live a guy moved a province away and didn't make it back for the court case where his ex was seeking more spousal support and she got everything she asked for because he showed a "lack of caring" (i heard this from her so I am not 100% on the validity)

[Noirek]

I agree with you on the broken contract.

 

I don't. Unless one wants to look at marriage as business arrangment only or a tit for tat game. You could use that for any of the vows than. However. Since divorce proceedings take forever in some places I think it is a stretch to call it cheating when the couples have verbalized it is over and are living as such just because they are waiting for legalities. If a bs is living with their ws and has not said the marriage is over and they sleep with someone, it is cheating.

[dreamingoftigers]

Blah, blah, blah. What you're not getting is that her actions towards you do not justify your actions towards your innocent children. This is not about you. It's about them at this point.

 

But you go ahead Mr Know it All.

 

Her cheating on you does not and will not justify what you're doing. You can sing it till the cows come home. And no doubt you will as you've determined yourself to be the perpetual victim here.

 

Doing the absolute legal minimum for one's children because one was cheated doesn't track very well logically.

 

It's like claiming one isn't held to do beyond the minimum legal requirement for one's own responsibility because they were cheated on.

 

"The utility company can take me to collections, whatever. I don't have to pay MY OWN utility bill because I was cheated on."

 

"I don't have to shower anymore because I was cheated on. I talked to my lawyer about it."

 

"I did the legal minimum butt-wiping. Don't judge me, I was cheated on. Being cheated on isn't normal."

 

Yes, you may not be "legally required" to take care of yourself and your responsibilities. But don't be surprised it if you lack of effort is found to be wholly unacceptable to people that do lay their utility bills, shower and wipe their own butts.

 

Now I'm not a law expert and I realize they vary state to state, country to country. But if someone bails on their children during the divorce and what could become custody hearings and spousal support disputes and all that legal stuff, Isn't that going to really come back to bite them? I mean where I live a guy moved a province away and didn't make it back for the court case where his ex was seeking more spousal support and she got everything she asked for because he showed a "lack of caring" (i heard this from her so I am not 100% on the validity)

 

This ^^^^

 

And the kids will of course know he didn't show for them. Sad.

[eye of the storm]

Maybe I gave unpopular advice (or bad advice) because I frequently feel it might have been healthier for my kids to have had no contact with their dad during the separation until he got his head back on straight. He was so angry and bitter and vindictive and he bathed the kids in it. It still hurts to think about it. Or maybe I just wanted him to disappear so I didn't have to have so much rubbed in my face.

 

I do think you should never bail on your kids. There was a time I lived in a crap hole and ate ramin when the kids weren't home because that was all I could afford. Peanut butter was the only protein I could afford. I worked 4 jobs to pay for the kids and myself. I never walked away from them. It was not an option that even crossed my mind. I couldn't have. They were the only reason I had to live. They kept me alive.

 

So, I didn't give him a pass because he is male. I gave him a pass to leave because I would have worked a 5th job to make the bitterness infecting my children leave.

 

But you are all right. If he were any kind of father, he would get into therapy. Refocus on his children and getting them thru this ugliness. Figure out his issues. Heal, learn, grow, and have a great relationship with his children.

 

But if he can't or won't do that. Then from my experience. Leave. Take your bitterness and go.

[howtoproceed]

@merrmeade

 

I'll just throw in my take on it. All we really know is that you're having an intense reaction to the impotent, groveling role you were playing to your WW (in your case: WitchWife). You've done a 180 degree flip and the anger and bitterness are spewing out like a volcanic eruption.

 

The intense reaction you mention seems as real as the Hysterical Bonding, which was definitely real. Imediately after I discovered the texts, like within a few hours, I took my crying wife into the bedroom and we started having sex 3 times per day. Maybe the anger is physiological as well. I mean I've been angry about the affir for 18 months but only since I left have I become angry about the "impotent and groveling" role I have played, as you call it. Now I'm angry about that as well.

 

@noriek

 

Now I'm not a law expert and I realize they vary state to state, country to country. But if someone bails on their children during the divorce and what could become custody hearings and spousal support disputes and all that legal stuff, Isn't that going to really come back to bite them? I mean where I live a guy moved a province away and didn't make it back for the court case where his ex was seeking more spousal support and she got everything she asked for because he showed a "lack of caring" (i heard this from her so I am not 100% on the validity)

 

My lawyer knows I left and he did not say one word about it - not a one. Of course, I left and then called a lawyer so who knows what he would have advised. It seems to be more of an issue on this site than in the legal community. I can see how missing a hearing could mess me up but if I'm sending support and they know where I am and I told them I was leaving, it isn't abandonment.

[SoleMate]

I'm sending support and they know where I am and I told them I was leaving, it isn't abandonment.

Legally, perhaps you're right according to the laws of your state. The law doesn't and can't demand that you show love, affection, emotional caring, or parental attention. It typically demands the bare minimum: adequate calories in the mouth, clothes on the back, roof over head, access to a school, and do not leave them in the custody of a felony sex offender or force them to work in a coal mine or at a deli slicing meat. See http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/ncpca_statute_child_neglect_abandonment_3_07.pdf

 

According to law, you DON'T ever need to:

• Tell your child you love them
  
• Read them a story
  
• Ask how they are
  
• Help with their homework
  
• Listen to them
  
• Hug them
  
• Hold a birthday party
  
• Give them gifts
  
• Take them to a sports event, party, concert or picnic
  
• Celebrate holidays
  
• Allow them access to bikes, balls, bats, board games, books
  
• Let them have friends over to the house
  
• Help them develop goals, morality, ethics
  
• Help them learn about the world and how to interact with people
  
• Teach them to show affection to their family and friends
  
• Talk to them
  
• See them
  
• etc. etc.
  

 

Would the same thing be OK for your wife as far as you're concerned? Can she just say "I'm leaving, I'll be in Bali re-enacting 'Eat, Pray, Love', the monthly minimum payment will be deposited at the bank"? From the airport? After dropping the kids off at a babysitter that they realize after the fact will become their only caregiver for an uncertain future?

 

If just adhering to the legal required minimum of parental "care" is your goal, that's your right. It is also an incredibly cruel and downright evil choice. Someone making the choice for emotional neglect and emotional abandonment is being a worse parent than many physical abusers. So don't go waving a "I meet the minimum legal requirement for parenting that keeps me out of jail" flag, few things could be more revolting.

 

BTW, Chinese culture is very family-oriented.

Edited November 24, 2016 by SoleMate

[howtoproceed]

Would the same thing be OK for your wife as far as you're concerned? Can she just say "I'm leaving, I'll be in Bali re-enacting 'Eat, Pray, Love', the monthly minimum payment will be deposited at the bank"? From the airport? After dropping the kids off at a babysitter that they realize after the fact will become their only caregiver for an uncertain future?

 

I'm tempted to say that my kids could come with me and leave it at that but it would be a lie. First of all, and I said it at least once, lying, cheating s_lu_t that she is, my wife is also a loving mom. Somehow, I'm not surprised. I bet the biggest narcissists are also most loving of their kids. Its probably like looking in a mirror or something. Second, my daughters wouldn't want to go. Third, it just wouldn't be practical. The best and honest answer here is that the day she invited a man into our bed and s_u_c_k_ed his d_i_c_k, she lost the right to run off to Bali and handed me the license to run off to China. It starts like this:

"She should have thought of that before ......." and you can finish the sentence.

 

If just adhering to the legal required minimum of parental "care" is your goal, that's your right. It is also an incredibly cruel and downright evil choice. Someone making the choice for emotional neglect and emotional abandonment is being a worse parent than many physical abusers. So don't go waving a "I meet the minimum legal requirement for parenting that keeps me out of jail" flag, few things could be more revolting.

 

You are overstating so much here its like you are drawing a caricature of me and insisting its an accurate representation of how I look. I just want to point out that calling my decision to leave a cheating s_lu_t after 18 mnths of false R an "evil" act is just too much, even for someone prone to exaggeration.

 

BTW, Chinese culture is very family-oriented.

 

Well thank God! Maybe I'll meet a real woman instead of some cheating and lying trash barrel wh_o_re who is always on the prowl for something better.

[BluesPower]

Guys - I don't say that he is right in leaving and staying away.

 

I am saying this: he is really in no shape to be around his wife and kids right now. He really made some mistakes dealing with everything from the start.

 

But that is water under the bridge right now. Maybe he should not have left the way that he did, but this man has just really been put through the ringer.

 

I mean, have you read everything that his wife has done? He has to get his head together. No man, or anyone, should be put through what he has been put through.

 

I just think that everyone cannot deal with these types of circumstances.

 

I stayed and kept my family together through some horrible stuff. It finally led to me having a stroke. I literally could have died. We got to the hospital fast enough that I was able to fully recover. But had I been by myself, I could have died.

 

I have been through some stuff. If OP has to get away for a while I say do it. I am not saying that he should stay away forever. But a year is not going to kill the kids or anyone else.

 

Is it possible that we could lighten up on him a little?

 

And if I am off base, well you can roast me if you need to.

[dreamingoftigers]

I'm tempted to say that my kids could come with me and leave it at that but it would be a lie. First of all, and I said it at least once, lying, cheating s_lu_t that she is, my wife is also a loving mom. Somehow, I'm not surprised. I bet the biggest narcissists are also most loving of their kids. Its probably like looking in a mirror or something.

 

I am the child of a narcissistic father. My mother was the child of a narcissistic father as well. They ARE NOT the most loving and it typically causes (if unchecked) lifelong damage. Most narcissists can't engage with their children on any meaningful level and often expect the kids to meet THEIR needs.

 

Second, my daughters wouldn't want to go. Third, it just wouldn't be practical.

 

That's why you stay near them and PARENT. You find something reasonably close. You were (are?) obviously working before and could provide that stability to them. Since they are minors, your influence is just that, influential.

 

But I honestly see eye of the storm's point. If you would only be around to be vindictive or information-gathering about their mother, then of course they would feel like they have nothing other to offer YOU.

 

The best and honest answer here is that the day she invited a man into our bed and s_u_c_k_ed his d_i_c_k, she lost the right to run off to Bali and handed me the license to run off to China.

 

NO, she handed you the license to leave the marriage without any debate, discussion or marital counseling etc.

 

No one "gave you the license" to run out on your children. Your kids DIDN'T CHEAT ON YOU.

 

It starts like this:

"She should have thought of that before ......." and you can finish the sentence.

 

So, it was up to your daughters to stop her from cheating?

Because they are the ones who lose a father for it. Your wife doesn't care about "losing a husband." She threw you away with both hands and hasn't asked for you back. In fact, the only thing your leaving to China does it reinforce to your wife that she was right to disrespect your relationship.

 

And only shows your daughters that they weren't worth trying to be a Dad for.

 

You are overstating so much here its like you are drawing a caricature of me and insisting its an accurate representation of how I look. I just want to point out that calling my decision to leave a cheating s_lu_t after 18 mnths of false R an "evil" act is just too much, even for someone prone to exaggeration.

 

Not a single person is knocking you leaving your wife.

Not a single one.

Refusing co-parenting and leaving your children behind with the absolute minimum support with alternating holidays "maybe" is what everyone on the thread since is commenting on. Leaving YOUR CHILDREN.

 

And THAT is VILE.

 

Not your "cock-sarking wife's" children.

Not "some other guy's" children.

YOUR CHILDREN.

 

Well thank God! Maybe I'll meet a real woman instead of some cheating and lying trash barrel wh_o_re who is always on the prowl for something better.

 

Women who are family-oriented look at the man they want and see if he is family-oriented or full of hot air.

 

It sounds like you have already decided to dump off the second set of children.

 

Only a very foolish woman would volunteer to have the third set. More likely, one that ISN'T actually family-oriented would volunteer for the role and just not care that much about you or the kids.

[dreamingoftigers]

Guys - I don't say that he is right in leaving and staying away.

 

I am saying this: he is really in no shape to be around his wife and kids right now. He really made some mistakes dealing with everything from the start.

 

But that is water under the bridge right now. Maybe he should not have left the way that he did, but this man has just really been put through the ringer.

 

I mean, have you read everything that his wife has done? He has to get his head together. No man, or anyone, should be put through what he has been put through.

 

I just think that everyone cannot deal with these types of circumstances.

 

I stayed and kept my family together through some horrible stuff. It finally led to me having a stroke. I literally could have died. We got to the hospital fast enough that I was able to fully recover. But had I been by myself, I could have died.

 

I have been through some stuff. If OP has to get away for a while I say do it. I am not saying that he should stay away forever. But a year is not going to kill the kids or anyone else.

 

Is it possible that we could lighten up on him a little?

 

And if I am off base, well you can roast me if you need to.

 

That first year would be when the kids would be the most damaged.

 

If he left for a year and they started making some headway, and then he popped back like "surprise, Daddy actually cares" that will confuse the s*** out of them.

 

NO ONE is saying he has to be around HIS WIFE right now. Jeepers. I can't be the only one on this forum who has the internet.

 

There are TONS of family scheduling programs or even GOING THROUGH a mutual relative / friend for dropoffs / pickups.

 

No one is saying "take more abuse."

 

We are saying, "don't abuse your kids by tossing them aside."

[Mz. Pixie]

I am the child of a narcissistic father. My mother was the child of a narcissistic father as well. They ARE NOT the most loving and it typically causes (if unchecked) lifelong damage. Most narcissists can't engage with their children on any meaningful level and often expect the kids to meet THEIR needs.

 

 

 

That's why you stay near them and PARENT. You find something reasonably close. You were (are?) obviously working before and could provide that stability to them. Since they are minors, your influence is just that, influential.

 

But I honestly see eye of the storm's point. If you would only be around to be vindictive or information-gathering about their mother, then of course they would feel like they have nothing other to offer YOU.

 

 

 

NO, she handed you the license to leave the marriage without any debate, discussion or marital counseling etc.

 

No one "gave you the license" to run out on your children. Your kids DIDN'T CHEAT ON YOU.

 

 

 

So, it was up to your daughters to stop her from cheating?

Because they are the ones who lose a father for it. Your wife doesn't care about "losing a husband." She threw you away with both hands and hasn't asked for you back. In fact, the only thing your leaving to China does it reinforce to your wife that she was right to disrespect your relationship.

 

And only shows your daughters that they weren't worth trying to be a Dad for.

 

 

 

Not a single person is knocking you leaving your wife.

Not a single one.

Refusing co-parenting and leaving your children behind with the absolute minimum support with alternating holidays "maybe" is what everyone on the thread since is commenting on. Leaving YOUR CHILDREN.

 

And THAT is VILE.

 

Not your "cock-sarking wife's" children.

Not "some other guy's" children.

YOUR CHILDREN.

 

 

 

Women who are family-oriented look at the man they want and see if he is family-oriented or full of hot air.

 

It sounds like you have already decided to dump off the second set of children.

 

Only a very foolish woman would volunteer to have the third set. More likely, one that ISN'T actually family-oriented would volunteer for the role and just not care that much about you or the kids.

 

This is exactly what I've been trying to say over and over. His thinking only of himself and future nooky smacks of narcissism itself.

 

Yes, totally the kids should pay the price and they should Blame her for taking away their dad. Not! But this is actually what he thinks will happen.

 

Wow. Just wow.

[Grapesofwrath]

@ Grapes of Wrath

 

An admitted cheater here calling me out for not caring enough for my kids.

How dare you!

 

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

[howtoproceed]

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

 

Cheater talk and cheater logic.

[Noirek]

Cheater talk and cheater logic.

 

No, a dictionary defintion... if it wasn't so sad you shirking personal responsibility for your actions it would be funny. But its not because of the innocent children involved who mean less to you than your own ego and happiness. They have to be strong and resiliant while who get to run off and have your fun. There are thousands of parents who shouldn't be parents just like you and it makes me sad. I hope you wake up soon but I think perhaps this runs deeper than just recent events. And unless you are willing to seek real help and change... you won't and they are better off without a father that would use them as a weapon as others have said. Children should never be put on the back burner or shelved to be taken down when it suits the parent.

 

And narcissists don't make good parents. They use their kids and then abandon them when they no longer fill a need.

[Mz. Pixie]

Cheater talk and cheater logic.

 

He will dismiss everything that doesn't fit with what he wants as this. He's acting as if we have asked him to stay with his cheating wife. When all we have said is that he shouldn't bail on his children.

 

This seems like narcissistic injury to me.

[howtoproceed]

The number of misrepresentations, half-truths and out right lies that Mz. Pixie and Noirek were able to fit into one paragraph is astounding. I would be impressed if I weren't so disgusted. At least Mz. Pixie has taken my advice and reigned in her self-righteous tone.

 

The one misrepresentation common to both is the narcissistic personality disorder comment. What I said was, in trying to explain how my wife can be simultaneously cruel and such a loving mom is that she is a narcissist and maybe when she looks at her kids, she sees herself. That's all I said. An off hand, one sentence speculation basically irrelevant to the thread but from that, tweedle dee and teedle dum have done diagnosed me as having NPD.

 

I did google Narcissistic Injury because its just the type of word this Pixie character would make up, but turns out to be a real word. I guess you could say it fits me in this one instance. Here is what I found:

 

Narcissists respond to narcissistic injury as if it's a serious criticism, a total rejection, a definite threat to their very existence.

 

The total rejection here was being excluded from my wife's birthday party but I would more accurately call it the straw that broke the camels back. There was a DDay and 18 months false R leading up to that "total rejection." My point is, even non-narcissists would respond.

 

Then I read this:

 

The response is swift, intense and very often out of proportion. It is called narcissistic rage and can vary from totally ignoring the source to verbal and physical violence.

 

The key phrase here is "out of proportion" and that would be me leaving my kids. I agree, a hard thing to do to my kids and possibly out of proportion. Even if it is out of proportion, its also this solitary act that's "out of proportion." I haven't been acting out of proportion for the past 18 months but only after my wife did something that was beyond the pale and demanded a response. If this is really narcissistic injury, its the only one I'm aware of in the past 18 months.

 

Leaving was the best 1st step but it created a hole. Finding a job in China and meeting girls online is filling that hole and it seems to work.

 

And about the women - I am going to admit it right now - I could never chat up women like this in the States, and they are all over me! They are just what I needed. I've moved three of them from the dating site to Skype and I'd have more except they use wechat in China much more than Skype. One of the girls I met, she is 17 years younger than me, single no kids, wants to meet me at the airport in shanghai and get me on the right Bullet Train to Chengdu.

 

Three weeks ago tomorrow, my wife can home from her birthday party and told me I wasn't invited because I was an embarrassment. Now I have a beautiful woman 17 years younger than me and 6 years younger than me wife wanting to meet me at the airport and show me around Shanghai. Things change!

 

These women are just what I needed.

[DKT3]

The number of misrepresentations, half-truths and out right lies that Mz. Pixie and Noirek were able to fit into one paragraph is astounding. I would be impressed if I weren't so disgusted. At least Mz. Pixie has taken my advice and reigned in her self-righteous tone.

 

The one misrepresentation common to both is the narcissistic personality disorder comment. What I said was, in trying to explain how my wife can be simultaneously cruel and such a loving mom is that she is a narcissist and maybe when she looks at her kids, she sees herself. That's all I said. An off hand, one sentence speculation basically irrelevant to the thread but from that, tweedle dee and teedle dum have done diagnosed me as having NPD.

 

I did google Narcissistic Injury because its just the type of word this Pixie character would make up, but turns out to be a real word. I guess you could say it fits me in this one instance. Here is what I found:

 

 

 

The total rejection here was being excluded from my wife's birthday party but I would more accurately call it the straw that broke the camels back. There was a DDay and 18 months false R leading up to that "total rejection." My point is, even non-narcissists would respond.

 

Then I read this:

 

 

 

The key phrase here is "out of proportion" and that would be me leaving my kids. I agree, a hard thing to do to my kids and possibly out of proportion. Even if it is out of proportion, its also this solitary act that's "out of proportion." I haven't been acting out of proportion for the past 18 months but only after my wife did something that was beyond the pale and demanded a response. If this is really narcissistic injury, its the only one I'm aware of in the past 18 months.

 

Leaving was the best 1st step but it created a hole. Finding a job in China and meeting girls online is filling that hole and it seems to work.

 

And about the women - I am going to admit it right now - I could never chat up women like this in the States, and they are all over me! They are just what I needed. I've moved three of them from the dating site to Skype and I'd have more except they use wechat in China much more than Skype. One of the girls I met, she is 17 years younger than me, single no kids, wants to meet me at the airport in shanghai and get me on the right Bullet Train to Chengdu.

 

Three weeks ago tomorrow, my wife can home from her birthday party and told me I wasn't invited because I was an embarrassment. Now I have a beautiful woman 17 years younger than me and 6 years younger than me wife wanting to meet me at the airport and show me around Shanghai. Things change!

 

These women are just what I needed.

 

After my wife's affair and the subsequent divorce I went looking for ego and self-esteem boost in other women, many many women. While there was some instant gratification, long term it's empty and unfulfilling.

 

Really that is minor, what isn't is you being there for your girls.

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

Three weeks ago tomorrow, my wife can home from her birthday party and told me I wasn't invited because I was an embarrassment. Now I have a beautiful woman 17 years younger than me and 6 years younger than me wife wanting to meet me at the airport and show me around Shanghai. Things change!

 

These women are just what I needed.

 

I am sure you could get lots of dates in the US or wherever you are from. Men near me in their 40s have their pick. These women just want to marry you and move to your country.

[eye of the storm]

HtP, Not being mean here. Just realistic. There is only one reason these young girls are interested in you. Money or a Visa.

 

It is so common we are counseled about it before going to some areas.

 

But you don't care about that either. Just go already. China awaits!

[howtoproceed]

These women just want to marry you and move to your country.

 

I'm 55 and I don't see myself getting too many knock-out 35 y/o here in the States. I'm aware that they may want to marry me so they can come to America. I've reading up on this over the past few weeks and I would never take one of these girls to America. I could see marrying though. I'm just young enough to make it work.

 

The girl from Shanghai that wants to meet me, we have been chatting about best places to retire in China. In her opinion, it's Xiamen but the point is, I'm careful to steer conversations away from America and it works. Also, many of these women are divorced with a kid. Maybe they want a husband to help out. The most hurtful thing I've dealt with in a marriage is infidelity. I would have no problem with a faithful wife who married me because I was a good provider.

 

You are overstating - many want to marry and go to USA but many want to marry and stay in China.

[Mz. Pixie]

The number of misrepresentations, half-truths and out right lies that Mz. Pixie and Noirek were able to fit into one paragraph is astounding. I would be impressed if I weren't so disgusted. At least Mz. Pixie has taken my advice and reigned in her self-righteous tone.

 

The one misrepresentation common to both is the narcissistic personality disorder comment. What I said was, in trying to explain how my wife can be simultaneously cruel and such a loving mom is that she is a narcissist and maybe when she looks at her kids, she sees herself. That's all I said. An off hand, one sentence speculation basically irrelevant to the thread but from that, tweedle dee and teedle dum have done diagnosed me as having NPD.

 

I did google Narcissistic Injury because its just the type of word this Pixie character would make up, but turns out to be a real word. I guess you could say it fits me in this one instance. Here is what I found:

 

 

 

The total rejection here was being excluded from my wife's birthday party but I would more accurately call it the straw that broke the camels back. There was a DDay and 18 months false R leading up to that "total rejection." My point is, even non-narcissists would respond.

 

Then I read this:

 

 

 

The key phrase here is "out of proportion" and that would be me leaving my kids. I agree, a hard thing to do to my kids and possibly out of proportion. Even if it is out of proportion, its also this solitary act that's "out of proportion." I haven't been acting out of proportion for the past 18 months but only after my wife did something that was beyond the pale and demanded a response. If this is really narcissistic injury, its the only one I'm aware of in the past 18 months.

 

Leaving was the best 1st step but it created a hole. Finding a job in China and meeting girls online is filling that hole and it seems to work.

 

And about the women - I am going to admit it right now - I could never chat up women like this in the States, and they are all over me! They are just what I needed. I've moved three of them from the dating site to Skype and I'd have more except they use wechat in China much more than Skype. One of the girls I met, she is 17 years younger than me, single no kids, wants to meet me at the airport in shanghai and get me on the right Bullet Train to Chengdu.

 

Three weeks ago tomorrow, my wife can home from her birthday party and told me I wasn't invited because I was an embarrassment. Now I have a beautiful woman 17 years younger than me and 6 years younger than me wife wanting to meet me at the airport and show me around Shanghai. Things change!

 

These women are just what I needed.

 

First of all, for you to think I reigned in my comments due to anything you said would be terribly short sided on your part. This is a public forum and you came here asking for advice. And thanks for calling me a character as I most certainly am but it all of the best ways.

 

I don't particularly care how many women you pursue, how many you bed or any of the like. I've never once said your wife was right for anything she's done. Nor did I say you shouldn't divorce her or otherwise. Actually I was on your side with that. You're refusing to see that because the one thing I'm telling you that you don't like. I am actually on your side.

 

In real life even if I don't like someone personally I'm able to see objectively the things they do right and what they do wrong. My personality type is The Counselor.

 

My mother had a narcissistic personality disorder so I feel uniquely qualified on that topic. If you even whiff that your wife actually suffers from this you definitely should not leave your children and go away.

 

I'm on your side because I'm trying to get you not to do something you will regret. And that will harm your children. I don't think it's judgmental. Especially since I've been through some tough stuff myself. Way harder than infidelity and I know how to survive. There is no way however any storm this side of hell could get me to bail on my children.

 

Enjoy your women. But please reconsider leaving your daughter cheers. They need they dads.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Mz. Pixie

[dreamingoftigers]

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

 

Cheater talk and cheater logic.

 

Oh look Grapesofwrath, he provided a perfect example for you.

 

I'm not a cheater and it defining ad hominem attacks makes sense to me. Maybe " some special logic" applies to Non-Cheaters and Cheaters.

 

I guess this section of the thread could be called "Abandoning Father talk and Abandoning Father logic."