Shining One Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 This thread made me think about using people when dating. I understand that this is largely a matter of opinion, but I wanted to see what others thought. In the linked thread, the OP went on two dates with a man (at his expense). She knew she had no physical interest in him and she was recovering from a bad relationship. Quite a few posters believe she used him and some others believe she was just giving him a chance. In my personal life, I've slept with several woman and ended things immediately after. Some would say I used them and some would say I gave them a chance. My question to the forum is this: Where is the line drawn between giving someone a chance and using someone? Is it a matter of intent? Is it a matter of resources consumed (time, money, emotion)? Or is it something else entirely?
JewelD Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 That situation doesn't sound like she used him. Sometimes people become more attractive after we've had time to get to know them. In that case, it didn't happen for her. It's 'using' if you were to go on a date with someone you had no interest in whatsoever just for the free food. Bottom line, if you have to be deceptive about your intentions, you're trying to use that person. 3
Author Shining One Posted August 28, 2016 Author Posted August 28, 2016 Bottom line, if you have to be deceptive about your intentions, you're trying to use that person.Would you consider a lie of omission as deception? In that particular case, she knew she had no physical attraction to the man, but didn't tell him. What about the scenario in which a man goes out with and sleeps with a woman he doesn't see relationship potential in, but doesn't tell her that (another lie of omission)? Both cases are not technically lying, but they are leaving out information important to the other person involved.
JewelD Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Would you consider a lie of omission as deception? In that particular case, she knew she had no physical attraction to the man, but didn't tell him. What about the scenario in which a man goes out with and sleeps with a woman he doesn't see relationship potential in, but doesn't tell her that (another lie of omission)? Both cases are not technically lying, but they are leaving out information important to the other person involved. Those are two different situations. OP actually did like other qualities about the man and considered him a catch as far as his personality and the way he treated her. She didn't go on dates with him knowing that nothing would ever happen between the two of them. They just didn't have that physical chemistry. In the case of the man sleeping with a woman he doesn't see relationship potential in, it is certainly using if he feigns interest in her just so he can get her in the bed. 1
Author Shining One Posted August 28, 2016 Author Posted August 28, 2016 In the case of the man sleeping with a woman he doesn't see relationship potential in, it is certainly using if he feigns interest in her just so he can get her in the bed.He is not feigning interest. He is interested in her physically. He is omitting the lack of interest otherwise. The woman was attracted non-physically and she omitted her lack of physical interest.
BluEyeL Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 That situation doesn't sound like she used him. Sometimes people become more attractive after we've had time to get to know them. In that case, it didn't happen for her. It's 'using' if you were to go on a date with someone you had no interest in whatsoever just for the free food. Bottom line, if you have to be deceptive about your intentions, you're trying to use that person. Exactly . Intention is what makes the using. If a woman goes out with some guy knowing she is doing so just for the free food or attention but knowing she has not interest in him whatsoever that using. If you went all nice and complimentary and courting a woman with an intention of just having sex and know you'll dump her right after because you never had any intention of trying a relationship with her that's using. But if it happened that you had sex and it didn't work out because you just happened to realize you're not compatible and that realization came at the sex time then it's not using . 1
JewelD Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 He is not feigning interest. He is interested in her physically. He is omitting the lack of interest otherwise. The woman was attracted non-physically and she omitted her lack of physical interest. So what's the real question here? Is it okay for a man to feign romantic interest and sleep with a woman who sees it as more than just casual sex? They are not the same situation at all. You don't go out on a date with someone and list all of your reservations about them (although OP didn't know they lacked physical chemistry until the actual date). But if you're just looking for a bootycall, why would you not be upfront about it with the woman who wants a relationship? Because you wouldn't get any tail. The OP was not trying to gain anything from going out with this man, she wanted to like him. She did like things about him. But it didn't pan out and she decided they were better off as friends. If you just want to screw somebody, then be an adult and say so. If you have to pretend like you want something more from them when you know you don't, you're working far too hard for casual sex. 1
BluEyeL Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 He is not feigning interest. He is interested in her physically. He is omitting the lack of interest otherwise. The woman was attracted non-physically and she omitted her lack of physical interest. For some women the physical attraction builds up , unlike for most men . That's because women are not exclusively visual . In some cases is eff no with a guy in other cases is hmmm... I wonder.. and that may build up . Or not. 1
Author Shining One Posted August 28, 2016 Author Posted August 28, 2016 So what's the real question here? Is it okay for a man to feign romantic interest and sleep with a woman who sees it as more than just casual sex?The question is what I stated in the original post. I posted what I think are common examples of men and women "using" each other. Plenty of men complain about being used for dates and attention and plenty of women complain about being used for sex.
Mikau Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 So what's the real question here? Is it okay for a man to feign romantic interest and sleep with a woman who sees it as more than just casual sex? They are not the same situation at all. You don't go out on a date with someone and list all of your reservations about them (although OP didn't know they lacked physical chemistry until the actual date). But if you're just looking for a bootycall, why would you not be upfront about it with the woman who wants a relationship? Because you wouldn't get any tail. The OP was not trying to gain anything from going out with this man, she wanted to like him. She did like things about him. But it didn't pan out and she decided they were better off as friends. If you just want to screw somebody, then be an adult and say so. If you have to pretend like you want something more from them when you know you don't, you're working far too hard for casual sex. This just feels like a double standard on your part. You assume ulterior motives and bad intentions on the guy who stops seeing somebody after sex, and you assume good intentions on the person who wants to 'give it a few dates'. You can't fathom a situation where a person likes the other person and wants to fall for that person, but decide it isn't meant to be at some point after sex?
Author Shining One Posted August 28, 2016 Author Posted August 28, 2016 For some women the physical attraction builds up , unlike for most men . That's because women are not exclusively visual . In some cases is eff no with a guy in other cases is hmmm... I wonder.. and that may build up . Or not.Interesting. I guess an equivalent situation would be a man not seeing relationship potential with a woman initially, but then casually dating / sleeping with her for a time to see if that potential appears.
JewelD Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 The question is what I stated in the original post. I posted what I think are common examples of men and women "using" each other. Plenty of men complain about being used for dates and attention and plenty of women complain about being used for sex. There are women who use men, but the example you linked is not one of them. The average adult who knows right from wrong knows exactly where the line is drawn. You know when you're trying to use someone and you know when you're giving them a legit chance. 1
Author Shining One Posted August 28, 2016 Author Posted August 28, 2016 The average adult who knows right from wrong knows exactly where the line is drawn.Right and wrong are relative. For example, if I went on several dates with a woman I had no physical interest in at her expense, I would feel wrong. 1
NJ123 Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Right and wrong are relative. For example, if I went on several dates with a woman I had no physical interest in at her expense, I would feel wrong. Honestly, people tell me to do this to get some experience in dating but I'd feel guilty & like I'm wasting my & her time due to knowing nothing would ever come out of it if I had no attraction to her at all. 1
JewelD Posted August 29, 2016 Posted August 29, 2016 This just feels like a double standard on your part. You assume ulterior motives and bad intentions on the guy who stops seeing somebody after sex, and you assume good intentions on the person who wants to 'give it a few dates'. You can't fathom a situation where a person likes the other person and wants to fall for that person, but decide it isn't meant to be at some point after sex? That's not the situation he described. Plus, the example he gave had fewer details than the one that is linked in the OP.
Mikau Posted August 29, 2016 Posted August 29, 2016 That's not the situation he described. Plus, the example he gave had fewer details than the one that is linked in the OP. Yes, it is the situation he described. He described two scenarios, one where there was no physical attraction and the other party was 'given a chance', and one where there was no emotional/intellectal attraction and the other party was 'given a chance'. Yet you assume good intention in one situation, and using somebody in the other. That's a double standard. 1
Author Shining One Posted August 29, 2016 Author Posted August 29, 2016 He described two scenarios, one where there was no physical attraction and the other party was 'given a chance', and one where there was no emotional/intellectal attraction and the other party was 'given a chance'.Thank you. I wished I had just used this in the original post instead of the examples I used.
JewelD Posted August 29, 2016 Posted August 29, 2016 Yes, it is the situation he described. He described two scenarios, one where there was no physical attraction and the other party was 'given a chance', and one where there was no emotional/intellectal attraction and the other party was 'given a chance'. Yet you assume good intention in one situation, and using somebody in the other. That's a double standard. It's clearly not. Did you read the thread he linked? There's more to the story with that than the short example he gave. That woman did NOT go out with that man knowing she wasn't attracted to him. She did not accept the date thinking that he wanted something she would not want from him. So that is clearly different from a man who knows he only wants casual sex from a woman who wants a relationship. As Blu said, "But if it happened that you had sex and it didn't work out because you just happened to realize you're not compatible and that realization came at the sex time then it's not using .". I agree with that, but that doesn't sound like what he was saying. What about the scenario in which a man goes out with and sleeps with a woman he doesn't see relationship potential in, but doesn't tell her that . See the difference now? The woman in the thread saw potential. This man doesn't. Unless this realization came after they had sex, but that's not stated. 1
Author Shining One Posted August 29, 2016 Author Posted August 29, 2016 It's clearly not. Did you read the thread he linked? There's more to the story with that than the short example he gave. That woman did NOT go out with that man knowing she wasn't attracted to him. She did not accept the date thinking that he wanted something she would not want from him. So that is clearly different from a man who knows he only wants casual sex from a woman who wants a relationship. As Blu said, "But if it happened that you had sex and it didn't work out because you just happened to realize you're not compatible and that realization came at the sex time then it's not using .". I agree with that, but that doesn't sound like what he was saying. What about the scenario in which a man goes out with and sleeps with a woman he doesn't see relationship potential in, but doesn't tell her that . See the difference now? The woman in the thread saw potential. This man doesn't. Unless this realization came after they had sex, but that's not stated.I'll take the blame for poorly wording it, but Mikau's wording accurately captures my intent.
JewelD Posted August 29, 2016 Posted August 29, 2016 Although it's worth mentioning that going out on a date with someone in the hopes that the connection gets stronger is significantly different than having sex with them in the hopes that you'll like their personality more. Dinner, that's 30-50 bucks and a kick to the ego if it doesn't pan out. Sex, that's someone's body and as these boards have shown, things tend to get more complicated and painful once you've slept with someone. 2
Mikau Posted August 29, 2016 Posted August 29, 2016 It's clearly not. Did you read the thread he linked? There's more to the story with that than the short example he gave. That woman did NOT go out with that man knowing she wasn't attracted to him. She did not accept the date thinking that he wanted something she would not want from him. So that is clearly different from a man who knows he only wants casual sex from a woman who wants a relationship. As Blu said, "But if it happened that you had sex and it didn't work out because you just happened to realize you're not compatible and that realization came at the sex time then it's not using .". I agree with that, but that doesn't sound like what he was saying. What about the scenario in which a man goes out with and sleeps with a woman he doesn't see relationship potential in, but doesn't tell her that . See the difference now? The woman in the thread saw potential. This man doesn't. Unless this realization came after they had sex, but that's not stated. I got the feeling the OP was describing a hypothetical situation based on, but not about, the linked thread. That's what I was responding to and thought you were responding to. I don't think the OP of the linked thread used anybody. I think she made the mistake of going out with somebody when she should have known she wasn't ready, but I don't think she did it with bad intentions. Doesn't stop me from totally understanding that the guy she went out with probably felt used. 1
Mikau Posted August 29, 2016 Posted August 29, 2016 Although it's worth mentioning that going out on a date with someone in the hopes that the connection gets stronger is significantly different than having sex with them in the hopes that you'll like their personality more. Dinner, that's 30-50 bucks and a kick to the ego if it doesn't pan out. Sex, that's someone's body and as these boards have shown, things tend to get more complicated and painful once you've slept with someone. That's your opinion. I disagree. I think sex is just sex, and it only has real emotional significance when done with somebody you have feelings for. It's something two people can enjoy, even if that's all it is. So I don't necessarily think one of the two is necessarily worse than the other in the event it doesn't pan out. 1
jen1447 Posted August 29, 2016 Posted August 29, 2016 This is a bit odd discussing the veracity of a diff thread in this one, but it's been cited so .... Shining, I think you're incorrect in saying the OP in the other thread knew she had no physical interest in the guy ahead of time. My read of it is that she determined she had no physical interest during the course of their dates. That makes a lot of difference as applies to the concept of using and characterizes that OP as not using IMO. Yes, she knew he wasn't her physical type generally but she did say she was "trying" to make herself find him attractive and expressed remorse that she couldn't. Figuring this stuff out is the essence of dating - getting to know someone to determine compatibility. As Jewel pointed out, using would be moreso some deceptive behavior designed to exploit the guy for free entertainment. Even w/out the girl from the other thread, this My question to the forum is this: Where is the line drawn between giving someone a chance and using someone? Is it a matter of intent? Is it a matter of resources consumed (time, money, emotion)? Or is it something else entirely? is a diff question than this one where there was no physical attraction and the other party was 'given a chance', and one where there was no emotional/intellectal attraction and the other party was 'given a chance'. Answer to the first imo is simply that using is determined by the existence of the intent to use (exploit for personal gains by deception). As to the rephrased thing, the specifics about what another person is being potentially used for would be insignificant to the motivation and intent to use in the first place. So knowing there's no emo/int connection and using them for sex would be essentially the same as knowing there's no physical connection and using them for profit. Someone gets exploited either way, specifically by the deception of the user. The motive and the means are irrelevant to characterizing the act. 3
Author Shining One Posted August 29, 2016 Author Posted August 29, 2016 Although it's worth mentioning that going out on a date with someone in the hopes that the connection gets stronger is significantly different than having sex with them in the hopes that you'll like their personality more. Dinner, that's 30-50 bucks and a kick to the ego if it doesn't pan out. Sex, that's someone's body and as these boards have shown, things tend to get more complicated and painful once you've slept with someone.Again, this is relative. I've been "used" for sex and "used" for free dates. I prefer being used for sex.
JewelD Posted August 29, 2016 Posted August 29, 2016 That's your opinion. I disagree. I think sex is just sex, and it only has real emotional significance when done with somebody you have feelings for. It's something two people can enjoy, even if that's all it is. So I don't necessarily think one of the two is necessarily worse than the other in the event it doesn't pan out. If I write it, it goes without saying it's my opinion.
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