Bitter Over The Fact That I Have No Experience With Women

[GemmaUK]

Sorry Dark Horse, you've got the social thing backwards.

 

Being around women in general as part of a social group will help you gain the skills required to get a girlfriend. Having friends will also help to reduce your loneliness.

 

All the things you want a girlfriend to help you do are same things which need to be in place before getting a girlfriend. A girl wants a guy who's got his act together and who is already comfortable talking with women.

 

If you want a girlfriend, you need to learn this stuff on with friends or with the help of a professional. Then you'll be in a place to find a girl

 

100& agree.

 

Dark Horse, why do you feel it right to not take any responsibility for yourself?

You seem to want to put all the responsibility onto whoever you date.

[MGX]

I honestly think having a girlfriend would be a good experience for me, both the good and bad parts of it.

 

For one thing, i'd have much more motivation to clean my house and room and learn how to cook. If you're having your girl come over and stay the night, you definitely don't want a messy apartment. If I had a girl over, you better believe i'm going to clean the sht out of my place. I'd tell my roommate to do the same (we're both single and he's also not likely to find anybody anytime soon)

 

I'd be having sex, hopefully lots of it. And I woudn't have as big of a desire to masturbate or watch porn since i'm getting laid so it would be easier to quit.

 

I would have a companion and somebody to talk to. There's just something about being in the presence of an attractive female that makes me feel better, not just the sex but perhaps the companionship, love is like a drug for me. It feels amazing when you know that a girl wants you.

 

I woudn't be lonely if I had a female in my life.

 

You THINK you want a girlfriend.

 

I thought that way too once, but those are straight fantasies and romanticized ideas. It's akin to imagining how great a glass of water tastes when you're dying of thirst.

 

 

And for those of you saying enjoy being single, yeah easy for you say! I think the truth is, you have to experience what it's like to be in a relationship and to have sex before you can really enjoy being single. Our brain is hard-wired to want to seek love and sex, and it will probably stay this way throughout your lifetime.

I would tell you to stop agonizing about chicks 24/7, enjoy life and cherish your freedom. I WISH I could travel back in time and tell my younger self this, instead of wanting to jump off a cliff because no one wanted me until I was 30.

[ZA Dater]

I think MALE friends who have successfully dated can help him. They can let him know about women and their approaches to eventually acquiring a relationship. The guys can also tell him from experience where he's going wrong and what to start doing to change his fortune.

 

I don't think this is a good solution. I enlisted the advice of people who were successful and never derived any success from the advice given. We are all unique, what works for one wont always work for another.

 

 

I chose to ignore the "oh she is hot" knowing that said person wouldn't date her at all but she was deemed to be good enough for me.

[MGX]

I don't think this is a good solution. I enlisted the advice of people who were successful and never derived any success from the advice given. We are all unique, what works for one wont always work for another.

 

Ah, but that's your experience about getting advice from successful men. I'm speaking from MY experience from having loads of female friends--having women friends won't teach you how to court the opposite sex. In college, I had way more women friends than men, but no matter how many female buddies that I had, they never really helped me to get any closer to getting what I thought I desperately wanted.

[MGX]

I chose to ignore the "oh she is hot" knowing that said person wouldn't date her at all but she was deemed to be good enough for me.

 

A woman that they chose for you might be a bad choice for them, but could be good for you, if they know what you are like. It doesn't mean that those women were "hand me downs".

[ZA Dater]

A woman that they chose for you might be a bad choice for them, but could be good for you, if they know what you are like. It doesn't mean that those women were "hand me downs".

 

In this instance they definitely are because I know this guy well enough to know he wouldn't ever contemplate dating the women he suggests I date, purely on a looks point of view.

 

 

Really the best advice here for the OP is to better himself, get rid of the bitterness and go from there.

[normal person]

OP, You could have a date. Stop being picky.

Yeah, the new thing these days is to say, “don’t settle!” but that is such a superior arrogant mindset because it implies that the person thinks he/she is better than others.

 

I disagree. I think tons of bad relationships are formed because people settled and then grow to resent their partner for not being what the person actually wants. Here's the thing, I don't think "settling" implies value necessarily, attraction is not as simple as rating someone from one to ten. For women especially, someone's "10" might be someone else's "5." I suggest finding the right person for you, the person that makes you the happiest, the person who you want to make the happiest, etc, rather than someone you have to convince yourself to like. Because that usually ends badly.

 

And THAT thinking precludes relationships.

 

I think it precludes healthy relationships.

 

Start appreciating all kinds of people and ask out lots of women- or make peace with the fact that your standards are too high and you'd rather be alone.

 

I think this is a little far fetched. People like what they like and they don't like what they don't like. It's biology, just chemistry in the brain that you can't will yourself out of. You can't force yourself to be attracted to someone you aren't. I believe OP was the one who started a thread akin to "Should I just try and date fat girls?" As crass as the thread was, I still think it's counterproductive to go after things you don't want rather than just raise yourself to the standard of the things that you do.

[normal person]

How do you improve yourself? How do you make yourself more valuable to women?

 

How about instead of waiting to have a girlfriend as motivation to clean your house, learn to cook, and presumably a lot of other activities, you just do them because you're a fully functioning (presumably) adult and those things will be more conducive to a woman entertaining the idea of going out with you?

 

Rather than put the cart before the horse and say "when I get a girlfriend, I'll clean my apartment, I'll learn to cook, I'll get a job to myself, and do X, Y, and Z," why don't you just assume some semblance of adulthood and do all those things now rather than bet a woman is going to give you the benefit of the doubt (highly unlikely) that you'll suddenly just pick these habits up? That is, if she for some reason takes a flyer on a guy who doesn't clean his house, can't cook, and is looking for a woman to tie all his hopes and aspirations to. It's like saying "when I make it to the NFL, I'll have a lot of motivation to finally get in shape and learn how to play football well." It doesn't work like that. The guys who make it are the one who do that on their own. Nobody will give you the benefit of the doubt when there are other guys out there who are proven.

 

The mistake you're making is thinking that a women is just going to like you for some reason in spite of all this. So many guys come here and ask why women won't go out with them, I have to shake my head and ask "why would they?" What are you expecting them to like about you? You don't clean your house, you're bitter, and your hopes are totally dependent on someone else rather than yourself -- you have no self determination.

 

 

How do you improve yourself? How do you make yourself more valuable to women?

 

Have them respect you and possess qualities they desire. Stop being dependent on their affection for your happiness and do something admirable on your own terms, like get a job, learn a useful skill, entertain people, etc. Provide something that enriches society rather than just leech off of it.

 

And how do you let go of not wanting a girlfriend/sex? I don't know how. All I know is that I want it so badly, and it's unhealthy and mentally draining on my emotional health.

 

Don't let go of the desire, just stop expecting something for nothing.

 

All I know is that I want it so badly, and it's unhealthy and mentally draining on my emotional health.

 

Do something about it rather than be bitter and complain. Tell us about your life. What do you do? How do you spend your time? What are your goals and how are you planning on achieving them? I feel like so many of your problems would resolve themselves pretty easily if you just went and led a productive, respectable, social, life on your own and weren't dependent on a women's affection to jumpstart it for you.

[carhill]

How do you improve yourself?

Set goals that are meaningful to you, irrespective of other people, and pursue them. There isn't an entity on this planet that cares as much about your life as you do. If you don't care, well there you go.

How do you make yourself more valuable to women?

Give up on making yourself valuable to women. Create your own value, for you. Women, and people in general, are incidental and transitory. Sure, some hang around for awhile and maybe a few a long time. Generally that's because there's a synergy of self-value where each person appreciates the other for who they are and as they are, not from some arbitrary set of parameters.

 

And how do you let go of not wanting a girlfriend/sex? I don't know how.

Accept that a girlfriend isn't a formula. Accept that sex is nature calling you to reproduce. It's not rocket science, biology.

All I know is that I want it so badly, and it's unhealthy and mentally draining on my emotional health.

Yep, it can be, and even deadly, but still you're in charge. You have power. You have choices.

 

A sex drive over the roof and an over-active fear response is the perfect storm.

Enjoy it while it lasts. At the other end, and having lived a lot of what you share in this thread, I might have changed the world with the time and energy I spent on reproduction and being married. I wouldn't trade it but it was no panacea of life. Perhaps that's one path, IDK. We each find our own way. In time, IME, bitterness can evolve to acceptance and sometimes even joy. You'll find your unique path. It'll work out.

[ZA Dater]

I disagree. I think tons of bad relationships are formed because people settled and then grow to resent their partner for not being what the person actually wants. Here's the thing, I don't think "settling" implies value necessarily, attraction is not as simple as rating someone from one to ten. For women especially, someone's "10" might be someone else's "5." I suggest finding the right person for you, the person that makes you the happiest, the person who you want to make the happiest, etc, rather than someone you have to convince yourself to like. Because that usually ends badly.

 

 

 

I think it precludes healthy relationships.

 

 

 

I think this is a little far fetched. People like what they like and they don't like what they don't like. It's biology, just chemistry in the brain that you can't will yourself out of. You can't force yourself to be attracted to someone you aren't. I believe OP was the one who started a thread akin to "Should I just try and date fat girls?" As crass as the thread was, I still think it's counterproductive to go after things you don't want rather than just raise yourself to the standard of the things that you do.

 

Excellent points, both very well stated.

[SpiralOut]

Find something to be happy about.

 

This is so simple, but it's true. People are attracted to other happy people. It's okay to want a girlfriend and to feel unhappy about being single, but don't let it affect your overall attitude. Find something that you really care about that you can put your energy into. It will not only make you feel better, but it will also make you a more interesting person to talk to - which will help you out when you start talking to women.

[HopefulJacob96]

I think it's totally normal for you to feel frustrated in your situation. I can feel frustrated with things not completely unlike that sometimes too. I know it's tough, but try not to compare yourself with others. That goes for every area of life really. I've learned that if I hold myself to someone else's standard, I will be disappointed.

 

The philosopher Heraclitus once said "Our envy always lasts longer than the happiness of those we envy," and that's so true. But know that you aren't alone in your struggles.

 

I have a good friend who didn't really date until he was older than you are now, but by 30 he was happily married with children. When the time is right, good things will come.

[JuneJulySeptember]

How do you improve yourself? How do you make yourself more valuable to women?

 

 

At age 21, women don't really have careers or $ and haven't really been to too many places, so there's not too much to improve. That is the GOOD.

 

When I was 21, I was actually not too far off the 'status' curve. I went to a great school in a cool city, smoked pot, drank, attempted to wear semi-cool clothes, played the guitar and went to concerts all the time.

 

Nowadays, I have friends/guys who either make over 5 times as much $ as I do, have been to Burning Man like 12 times, or count famous authors as their friends or are indeed a semi-famous author in their own right.

 

So, THAT is what you are competing with when you get older. I mean, not I give a @#$%, but just illustrating a point.

 

At age 21, it is easier in that sense. So, think about it that way.

[Imajerk17]

At age 21, women don't really have careers or $ and haven't really been to too many places, so there's not too much to improve. That is the GOOD.

 

When I was 21, I was actually not too far off the 'status' curve. I went to a great school in a cool city, smoked pot, drank, attempted to wear semi-cool clothes, played the guitar and went to concerts all the time.

 

Nowadays, I have friends/guys who either make over 5 times as much $ as I do, have been to Burning Man like 12 times, or count famous authors as their friends or are indeed a semi-famous author in their own right.

 

So, THAT is what you are competing with when you get older. I mean, not I give a @#$%, but just illustrating a point.

 

At age 21, it is easier in that sense. So, think about it that way.

 

I suppose the above is true, but that wasn't quite what I meant by "improving yourself".

 

There are many, many, MANY men and women out there (from young adults to Gen X to the Baby Boomers and even The Greatest Generation) who are dating, in serious relationships, ect, who are not all that impressive on paper. Hell read the threads on LS, and then go poll your friends. One of the most popular guys in my CrossFit box is this dude who is actually rather dorky. I'm not really sure what his job is, and it hardly matters. Hell he doesn't even lift a lot

 

(The advice "improving yourself" is indeed given out here like candy at Halloween, not because someone who has visited 4 or more continents is so much more desirable than someone who has only visited 2 (actually not really), but because there are a lot of struggling guys who have very basic problems that need to be taken care of first. For them, earning their own money or a hobby getting them out of the house and away from jacking off to porn all the time, or learning basic social skills, actually would go a long way to making them datable. But I digress.)

 

But, getting back to the OP, you have to have *something*--a bit of charm, being comfortable in your own skin, a willingness to put yourself out there, an ability to make her laugh ect. OP, do you get to interact with anyone your age over the course of a week?

 

JJS wrote a great post earlier about caring enough about other people and THEIR struggles to volunteer. Gave me something to think about, anyway OP, you really should go back and reread that.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Imajerk17

[ZA Dater]

I suppose the above is true, but that wasn't quite what I meant by "improving yourself".

 

There are many, many, MANY men and women out there (from young adults to Gen X to the Baby Boomers and even The Greatest Generation) who are dating, in serious relationships, ect, who are not all that impressive on paper. Hell read the threads on LS, and then go poll your friends. One of the most popular guys in my CrossFit box is this dude who is actually rather dorky. I'm not really sure what his job is, and it hardly matters. Hell he doesn't even lift a lot

 

(The advice "improving yourself" is indeed given out here like candy at Halloween, not because someone who has visited 4 or more continents is so much more desirable than someone who has only visited 2 (actually not really), but because there are a lot of struggling guys who have very basic problems that need to be taken care of first. For them, earning their own money or a hobby getting them out of the house and away from jacking off to porn all the time, or learning basic social skills, actually would go a long way to making them datable. But I digress.)

 

But, getting back to the OP, you have to have *something*--a bit of charm, being comfortable in your own skin, a willingness to put yourself out there, an ability to make her laugh ect. OP, do you get to interact with anyone your age over the course of a week?

 

JJS wrote a great post earlier about caring enough about other people and THEIR struggles to volunteer. Gave me something to think about, anyway OP, you really should go back and reread that.

 

Unfortunately it would be great to say do this and you may get that but frankly dating doesn't seem to work like that. In fact the more of an idiot you are the better your success rate seems to be. The less you seem to care the better your success rate is.

 

Over the past weeks I have met three ladies, all with boyfriends, none of these guys really gives a dam about them, things as simple as helping them find directions to a place, no these guys cant do that, moving furniture, no these guys cant be bothered to do that either. One is having a 1 year anniversary, her bf has planned nothing "he just wants to hang out", great way to appreciate someone in your life.

 

Yet, all three are devoted to these guys, for what reason I cannot fathom.

 

SO yes, you can improve to be what you think is good but the reality what is good? Nobody seems to know.

[JuneJulySeptember]

There are many, many, MANY men and women out there (from young adults to Gen X to the Baby Boomers and even The Greatest Generation) who are dating, in serious relationships, ect, who are not all that impressive on paper. Hell read the threads on LS, and then go poll your friends. One of the most popular guys in my CrossFit box is this dude who is actually rather dorky. I'm not really sure what his job is, and it hardly matters. Hell he doesn't even lift a lot

 

Yes, and I am one of them. But it was not an easy task whatsover. It was a lot of luck.

 

I mean, yes, I have a girlfriend now, and she is actually quite into it. But if we broke up tomorrow and I was back on Match.com, I'd go right back to the proverbial back of the line, stacking up rejections from all kinds of women from all walks of life.

 

It really shouldn't be that hard to experience love. Having a girlfriend is a fun experience. I think people take themselves and life WAY too seriously.

Edited August 17, 2016 by JuneJulySeptember

[LookAtThisPOst]

Unfortunately it would be great to say do this and you may get that but frankly dating doesn't seem to work like that. In fact the more of an idiot you are the better your success rate seems to be. The less you seem to care the better your success rate is.

 

Over the past weeks I have met three ladies, all with boyfriends, none of these guys really gives a dam about them, things as simple as helping them find directions to a place, no these guys cant do that, moving furniture, no these guys cant be bothered to do that either. One is having a 1 year anniversary, her bf has planned nothing "he just wants to hang out", great way to appreciate someone in your life.

 

Yet, all three are devoted to these guys, for what reason I cannot fathom.

 

SO yes, you can improve to be what you think is good but the reality what is good? Nobody seems to know.

 

Yep See this all thetime. They even spend time in the drunk tank almost all the time with a long DUI list. Even these slugs of men can get a woman.

 

I've even seen these guys go out with their women with jeans and wrinkled shirt and she'd be dressed to the nines and normal people just look at them and assume he's her mentally challenged brother.

[Imported]

Unfortunately it would be great to say do this and you may get that but frankly dating doesn't seem to work like that. In fact the more of an idiot you are the better your success rate seems to be. The less you seem to care the better your success rate is.

 

Over the past weeks I have met three ladies, all with boyfriends, none of these guys really gives a dam about them, things as simple as helping them find directions to a place, no these guys cant do that, moving furniture, no these guys cant be bothered to do that either. One is having a 1 year anniversary, her bf has planned nothing "he just wants to hang out", great way to appreciate someone in your life.

 

Yet, all three are devoted to these guys, for what reason I cannot fathom.

 

SO yes, you can improve to be what you think is good but the reality what is good? Nobody seems to know.

 

You're on the outside looking in. You really think you know all that's going on?

[carhill]

You're on the outside looking in. You really think you know all that's going on?

Yeah, that's typical of the no experience model and certainly one impetus to feeling bitter about it.

 

IME, save for a very few specific instances, all that stuff is either rewriting a relationship/marriage to justify an affair, or attention-seeking, or just plain emotional whining. The trick is to avoid being their receptacle or, as I've learned to do, have fun with the deal. Play with them. Don't take any of it seriously. Successful relationships taught a lot of lessons, ones difficult to learn without the actual experience and being 'on the inside'.

 

When they're whinging about the stuff that are the actual boundaries which keep them keen in the relationship or marriage, nod your head knowingly and smile. He still makes her wet so she complains. Situation normal. Let's have fun. I usually use the piss them off tool by going into a diatribe about how great a guy their husband or boyfriend is. Disagree with their complaints. Then they get pissed at me. Heh, it's all good. Passes the time anyway between fishing trips.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

very glad you are asking this question at age 21, because there are people older than you in your situation

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

It's like for men, the dichotomy of success with women is success in life, the things, traits, that make a man attractive and successful with women help him in his career, such as getting promoted, or other areas in his life

[ZA Dater]

You're on the outside looking in. You really think you know all that's going on?

 

I definitely don't profess to be anything more than looking from the outside in. I can but see what I see and frankly if what I see is the gold star standard to which guys must treat ladies then this world is very disappointing indeed.

 

Tell me this, it unrealistic for me to assume a guy who has a gf would go out of his way to celebrate a 1 year anniversary, is it unrealistic for me to expect him to actually care about her enough to help her move flats?

 

Yet, in both these instances these guys can do no wrong, maybe the physical attraction is really what dating is about, maybe the intangibles don't count at all.

 

Yes, I am a no experience outsider looking in but in both these instances I know I am a better guy than these so called fantastic bf's.

[Ensam]

This is a dangerous place to be cause the bitterness can easily eat away at you and also you may obsess so much over this problem that you are neglecting other parts of your life.

 

I would say this: Do try to look at yourself from an outsiders point of view and see if there is anything that you can improve but don't jump to the conclusion that you are flawed. Many times in topics similar to this one there are a lot of people implying there must be something wrong with the OP. When in reality no one is guaranteed love, even if they were the most good looking and interesting person on earth. Questioning yourself too much at this point is only going to make things worse so try to stay objective when assessing yourself.

 

Also it is important that you try to get on with your life in the meantime. Do whatever is necessary to get there. Try to focus your energy and creativity into work and your hobbies. The lack of sex can be treated to some degree by getting yourself a sexual aid (we're living in a time where they have become very realistic and affordable after all). Not feeling loved or appreciated can be fulfilled at least partly by getting more friends if you don't have that many or none.

[dusk86]

I can only imagine what you are going through and I don't blame you. If I was in the same situation I would probably begin with baby steps. So I would learn everything about women, pick up books, magazine and if you have any friend girls or cousins, ask them about their experience dating men. What are they looking for in a date, how would they like to be approach by men. I would try to understand their mentality and be mature about it.

 

I would also maybe even get a dating coach, you can find some online. I would work on my looks to be attractive as much as possible and try dating websites and begin to approach girls in real life. I mean there's no secret. If you don't like going out there and ask for numbers maybe you could join a social club or a gym club, somewhere you can meet someone and have an easy approach. Start somewhere and give yourself a few weeks, I'm sure you could make it happen for yourself.

 

Love or hate it, you will face rejection and we all have. But rejection is a good thing, it only tells that you should find a different approach until it works out. I hope this helps, all the best!

[ZA Dater]

I can only imagine what you are going through and I don't blame you. If I was in the same situation I would probably begin with baby steps. So I would learn everything about women, pick up books, magazine and if you have any friend girls or cousins, ask them about their experience dating men. What are they looking for in a date, how would they like to be approach by men. I would try to understand their mentality and be mature about it.

 

I would also maybe even get a dating coach, you can find some online. I would work on my looks to be attractive as much as possible and try dating websites and begin to approach girls in real life. I mean there's no secret. If you don't like going out there and ask for numbers maybe you could join a social club or a gym club, somewhere you can meet someone and have an easy approach. Start somewhere and give yourself a few weeks, I'm sure you could make it happen for yourself.

 

Love or hate it, you will face rejection and we all have. But rejection is a good thing, it only tells that you should find a different approach until it works out. I hope this helps, all the best!

 

I don't dispute this but CONSTANT rejection is not positive at all. It does nothing for ones confidence or ones self esteem. Ultimately I believe the solution to be find some happy ground with yourself, enjoy thing be it work, be it and interest and just find some contentedness.

 

 

One thing I wouldn't do is deviate from what you want. If you cant get it be happy in the fact you lost at something you really wanted versus win at something you didn't want to begin with.