Wish me luck [updated from 'not sure what's going on']

[Lobe]

So I talked to him this morning.

 

He broke it off with her last night. He will be spending time by himself.

 

That's all I'll say here.

 

I hope that he does take some time to work on himself, but I don't think his clingy mistress is done clinging - I still think the best thing you can do for your marriage is get a separation agreement in place. Even if you reconcile, knowing that you have an exit strategy will give you the resolve you need to carry on.

[ladydesigner]

I hope that he does take some time to work on himself, but I don't think his clingy mistress is done clinging - I still think the best thing you can do for your marriage is get a separation agreement in place. Even if you reconcile, knowing that you have an exit strategy will give you the resolve you need to carry on.

 

I recommend the above to EVERY BS!!!

[Lobe]

I recommend the above to EVERY BS!!!

 

I do too. One of my BFFs was in counselling with her hubby and it was one of their MC exercises - saved their marriage seeing what they were about to lose. I had my separation agreement notarized and served within days of finding out about WH's affair - I think that was a HUGE reality check for him, and an instrumental part in him realizing that I wasn't going to play pick me. You want her so bad? Go. Buh-bye...

[aileD]

Hi aile, you came to this forum looking for advice on what you could do in your situation to resolve the big problem you are facing in your married life. You have been given a lot of good advice and people here have analysed your situation for you quite clearly and emphatically. Right through you have avoided the hard choices offered as advice to you and which would have put you in a position of control. It is obvious that you are not going to act on any of the advice offered by the good people here and you have decided that you are going to maitain status quo. In the event I do not understand why you came to this forum and what you hoped to gain from the dicission of your situation here. You might as well have remained invisible and continued to wallow in your misery as that is what seems to satisfy you.

 

I came to this forum looking for support and reasons why he would be angry at me for asking to divorce when he was clearly moved out. Not for someone to give me a life plan an expect me to do ABC. All of my life isn't shared here because the OW posted on another forum and I don't want to share everything. But I have taken what everyone says into consideration and I'm sorry I'm not all PAST THIS like most of you are and already moved on and hate your Ex's. I'm not there yet and still have hope for our marriage.

 

So be it but then why come here unless you want the sympathy of others. Sympathy is not going to solve your problems but decisive action will. You have threatened your husband with divorce many times but you have not acted on it. This has given your husband the confidence that you will NEVER divorce him and that he can do whatever he so pleases and you will always be waiting in the wings for him.

 

I'm not here for sympathy or to be held to the "decisive action" people who are strangers to my life tell me is the best thing to do. I came here for support, to read about other's stories, to share mine and my struggles and hopefully find someone or people who would understand. I haven't "threatened him with divorce many times". We have discussed divorce amicably twice and have come to agreements...However we both realize it's not what we want. Yes there is trouble committing, I get that and I see that. and there is parts of that that I don't want to share here. I have only THREATENED him once, recent-- when I wrote this post.

 

You have said that you have beem married for almost 24 years and except for the last two years it has been a good marriage. Well you also said that ten years ago he cheated on you and went off with the OW for a while. So at the 14 year mark you had a wreck from which you emerged battered but alive.

The 2 1/2 years is a cumulative total. it includes the 4-6 months or so from 12 years ago. Doesn't matter but don't want you to think I'm a liar or forgot about that time.

 

The fact is that even if your husband recovers from this episode what guarantee do you have he will not stray in the future? Do you want to live your life always dreading what is going to happen at the next bump in your lives? I think that is a sad commentary on your values and your ability to respect yourself.

.

I don't have a guarantee, just like no one in any marriage has any guarantee.

 

The thing that's different for me this time, is there is effort to heal his past hurts. There has not been any effort in the past to heal from his childhood trauma. It's just been pushed deep down and repressed. We never went to marriage counseling past a few weeks after the first time, we never talked about it, we never dove into the reasons behind why it happened, or why it was allowed to happen. We never did research, talked about things, etc etc etc. I am hesitant to give up my marriage, my LIFE, and hurt my children when we haven't tried everything possible to save the marriage.

 

I was the other day when I told him I wanted a divorce, and I still may get a divorce. I haven't told him I'm not. But he says that he's ended things with her, he admits that it's hard for him, he admits that he is addicted to her, he admits she is like a drug. He separated from her, and is not jumping right back home, which is good I think. He needs to spend time alone.

 

I'm sorry if you see me as weak. I'm trying to navigate things best I can for my relationship. I appreciate the support and advice.

[aileD]

yes a separation agreement is a good idea. I can look into that.

 

Also I haven't just put my head into the sand. I know my options, I have a lawyer friend and we have talked about things and struggles and cost and what'd it really be like, etc etc etc.

 

I've done my research, I'm a strong person. I just believe in marriage. I believe in not giving up when the reasons are deeper than just whats on the surface. I've loved this man since I was 17 and even before then we knew each other. I have seen all the crap he's gone thru in his life. The Trauma I talk of is the worst of just like FIVE different crappy things that can happen to someone...Like an alcoholic mother, foster care, and being abandoned by your father for a new family. I do sympathise with him, he has been REALLY good at pushing all that stuff down, becoming successful, driven, etc. He is clearly having a breakdown and I don't feel right just saying "well eff it, you're too effed up for me". I'll try to help him as best I can, and it seems like he's doing the work and getting into the healing so why would I write him off now? I would never forgive myself. What if he can get past this, heal HIMSELF and we are able to restore our relationship? When there is a chance of that I will fight for my relationship, it's just how I am.... if he can't push thru this, then there is no choice and I understand that.

Edited August 3, 2016 by aileD
spelling and added stuff

[Lobe]

I'm sorry if you see me as weak. I'm trying to navigate things best I can for my relationship. I appreciate the support and advice.

 

My WH and I are reconciled. I understand why you want to reconcile. Reconciliation is not for the weak. I don't think you're weak but I do think you need to reframe the way you think you are "helping" your husband. What I'm curious about is if you understand what "enabling" is and what it means to bring the bottom up?

 

Most people don't start to turn themselves around until they have hit their rock bottom. And rock bottom tends to be an endlessly deep well when someone keeps filling the hole back up, essentially not giving them the opportunity to help themselves. In many ways, you are incapacitating your husband with your unconditional support, which is NOT the same as unconditional love. You can absolutely love someone and not support what they are doing in any way, shape, or form. That is how you bring the bottom up.

 

As long as you are a crutch for your husband, he will continue taking advantage. If you want to make sure that he is 100% committed to healing himself, you need to put some conditions on the support you are willing to give him. If he doesn't experience the natural consequence of making bad life choices, how can you expect him to learn from them? This is twice now that he has stepped out on you. If you want to give him one more try, you need to put up some healthy boundaries for yourself and give him some logical consequences if he does not follow through with his word. Some examples of conditions you might consider before attempting reconciliation are as follows:

 

1) He does not get to come home until he has been in NC from his strumpet for a minimum of 6 months; the clock resets each time he lapses.

 

2) He remains in counselling for his issues, and attends marriage and family counselling with you and the kids.

 

3) He signs a separation agreement of some sort ensuring that you receive an equitable settlement and that your children are taken care of.

 

Good luck.

[aileD]

My WH and I are reconciled. I understand why you want to reconcile. Reconciliation is not for the weak. I don't think you're weak but I do think you need to reframe the way you think you are "helping" your husband. What I'm curious about is if you understand what "enabling" is and what it means to bring the bottom up?

 

Most people don't start to turn themselves around until they have hit their rock bottom. And rock bottom tends to be an endlessly deep well when someone keeps filling the hole back up, essentially not giving them the opportunity to help themselves. In many ways, you are incapacitating your husband with your unconditional support, which is NOT the same as unconditional love. You can absolutely love someone and not support what they are doing in any way, shape, or form. That is how you bring the bottom up.

 

As long as you are a crutch for your husband, he will continue taking advantage. If you want to make sure that he is 100% committed to healing himself, you need to put some conditions on the support you are willing to give him. If he doesn't experience the natural consequence of making bad life choices, how can you expect him to learn from them? This is twice now that he has stepped out on you. If you want to give him one more try, you need to put up some healthy boundaries for yourself and give him some logical consequences if he does not follow through with his word. Some examples of conditions you might consider before attempting reconciliation are as follows:

 

1) He does not get to come home until he has been in NC from his strumpet for a minimum of 6 months; the clock resets each time he lapses.

 

2) He remains in counselling for his issues, and attends marriage and family counselling with you and the kids.

 

3) He signs a separation agreement of some sort ensuring that you receive an equitable settlement and that your children are taken care of.

 

Good luck.

 

this is thought provoking. I understand what you mean. I felt by not giving him any help with money, food, gas, sympathy, etc ....that was not enabling. I see there's more I do to enable.

 

yes there will be boundaries..there has to be. NC is a huge one.

[Lobe]

NC is a huge one.

 

kind of yeah

 

He knows you're waiting for him. That in and of itself is permission for him to take his sweet time sorting himself out, while you sit there holding down the fort indefinitely. Maybe the "bottom" you need to put under him to hit is a time limit - get the separation agreement in front of him and tell him he has a year to demonstrate he's serious about reconciling (NC, counselling, etc.) before you file for divorce. Reality checks are a b*tch but oh so necessary.

[merrmeade]

kind of yeah

 

He knows you're waiting for him. That in and of itself is permission for him to take his sweet time sorting himself out, while you sit there holding down the fort indefinitely. Maybe the "bottom" you need to put under him to hit is a time limit - get the separation agreement in front of him and tell him he has a year to demonstrate he's serious about reconciling (NC, counselling, etc.) before you file for divorce. Reality checks are a b*tch but oh so necessary.

Yeah. Kind of!

 

In fact, until today I did not realize I'd done something similar which, though far from ideal, did pave the way for the NC letter and completely ended things with OW. It's odd this topic came up today because it just reappeared yesterday. I pulled down a suitcase and Not Just Friends came tumbling out with some folded papers inside. They were letters to my husband, hobbled together after 2 weeks on LS 4 years ago. I just now read them and feel better about how "weak" I remember being at the time as well. LS helped a lot. Also, I think writing it worked better than saying it. I retyped it below.

 

It's like the separation agreement but at the time I had no idea it had a name. I didn't give a time frame, but he wasn't in contact at that point. He also hadn't sent the NC letter yet, and I think this paved the way for it. :

June 20, 2012

I have put in writing what can and cannot happen for me. It is not rocket science:

• Obviously if I still have doubts and do not trust you, it's a problem that can be overcome if there's no basis in reality for the doubt or mistrust.
  
• If I have reason for doubt, it's both of our problems, and we may not be able to recover.

• If you keep any secrets from me, we cannot have trust.
  
  
• If I find out that you lied about the past or diluted the truth about the affair, I will have difficulty trusting you about other things as well. We simply cannot continue if there is anything still hidden. We cannot have openness anywhere if even one area is kept locked.
  
  
• If - after this - I find out you are still withholding information about contact with her and you cannot irrefutably prove otherwise, it will probably be the end for us. I will have to tell my brother and our children.
  
  

At this moment, it is all and only about being truthful, not about what you actually did (they are and they aren't the same thing).

Do you have more that you did not tell me ...

- about the phone calls?

- about the affair with (OW)?

- about the nature of the physical contact?

- about other affairs in the past?

A few weeks after this, OW did try to contact him surreptitiously through a neighbor, pretending it was necessary for a business matter. I flipped and demanded he write the NC letter. It all clearly 'worked.' I have no doubt whatsoever he will ever break NC with her. In fact, he threatened to boycott his own son's wedding this year if she was going to be there.

 

But it is not NEARLY as final and unconditional as it should have been, and, in fact, he did not tell me everything about "other affairs in the past." Then, when he did, I forgot these consequences I'd promised. Going to have to mull this over a bit ...

 

Do what Lobe suggests.

Edited August 3, 2016 by merrmeade

[Lobe]

Then, when he did, I forgot these consequences I'd promised. Going to have to mull this over a bit ...

 

What purpose would following through on the "consequences" serve now?

 

In the OPs case, the consequences need to be swift and timely - her hubby sounds a bit like if he's left to meander on too long a leash he's likely to hang himself...

[merrmeade]

What purpose would following through on the "consequences" serve now?

 

In the OPs case, the consequences need to be swift and timely - her hubby sounds a bit like if he's left to meander on too long a leash he's likely to hang himself...

You're right. And my point was that it DID work in making the NC letter work that way it shoiuld

[aileD]

One of the hard things is the OW's mother works in the same building as WS. So in the past, she always found a way to be there somehow to run into. "Oh just here for lunch with mum". During previous NC, He used to park his truck in somewhat hidden spots so if she drove by it would look like he wasn't there, he'd leave early before she got off work, etc. She is very persistent. I know it's up to him to keep NC...it just is an added hurdle. I found out today her mom is trying to find a new job so that is good.

 

He knows that he will have to

- have NC with her for life.

- change work schedule to be more consistent

- open book, open phone, passwords

- therapy IC and MC.

- possible change his phone number

- notify me if she makes contact

- if he leaves me to be with her, I can't be in his life at all anymore. Not as a friend, nothing. He is old enough to make plans with the kids on his own. Not to be a bitch but for my own mental health I can't see him with her, I can't see her living MY life with MY husband. No. (This freaks him out)

 

He needs to deal with the withdrawal, and Her persistence before he's back in the house.

 

Thing is, she knows it's coming. They talk about it. She knows what it will mean. So I hope she comes to a point of acceptance if/when he leaves her.

 

I'm the past she's talked about moving with family to PR if he left her and I hope she does do that.

 

We are also in the middle of building a cabin. It is going to be weird this weekend because we had made plans for a bunch of friends to come help us do the roof and one other stuff. No one knows anything. I haven't seen him except a few mins here and there in three weeks. I don't know what to expect.

[Lobe]

He knows that he will have to

- have NC with her for life.

- change work schedule to be more consistent

- open book, open phone, passwords

- therapy IC and MC.

- possible change his phone number

- notify me if she makes contact

- if he leaves me to be with her, I can't be in his life at all anymore. Not as a friend, nothing. He is old enough to make plans with the kids on his own. Not to be a bitch but for my own mental health I can't see him with her, I can't see her living MY life with MY husband. No. (This freaks him out)

 

This sounds like you have your bottom lines.

 

I know how awkward it can be spending time with your WS in the aftermath - I wish you strength and serenity.

[ShatteredLady]

I'm pleased for you that he's at least making a change. Where is he staying? (I understand if you can't say here. You're getting closer to enough posts to PM!)

 

We've all been through nightmares here & several of us aren't anywhere close to being 'over it' & don't hate our spouses. We're here to support you through whatever choices you feel as best for you & your life.

 

Best wishes. Neither reconciliation or divorce are easy options when you've spent your entire adult life loving someone. You're living an unimaginably hard life at the moment. I truly hope that things get better for you SOON. There's only so much that one can endure & retain sanity & any smidge of self-esteem. Ugh! I know!

[Mr. Lucky]

She is very persistent.

 

Every BS knows it's convenient to blame the OW if they reconcile, often with the WS's encouragement. Be careful, it's a slippery slope.

 

I doubt she went anywhere she wasn't invited or did anything she wasn't encouraged to do. Your H should be your focus...

 

Mr. Lucky

[SweetiePi]

I understand exactly how you feel Aile. I have similar thoughts and views. No one would blame me for leaving him, but I'm trying to stick it out because we have built a life together and shared many good times. I will only fight it out if he is willing to fully come clean though.

 

 

yes a separation agreement is a good idea. I can look into that.

 

He is clearly having a breakdown and I don't feel right just saying "well eff it, you're too effed up for me". I'll try to help him as best I can, and it seems like he's doing the work and getting into the healing so why would I write him off now? I would never forgive myself. What if he can get past this, heal HIMSELF and we are able to restore our relationship? When there is a chance of that I will fight for my relationship, it's just how I am.... if he can't push thru this, then there is no choice and I understand that.

[aileD]

Every BS knows it's convenient to blame the OW if they reconcile, often with the WS's encouragement. Be careful, it's a slippery slope.

 

I doubt she went anywhere she wasn't invited or did anything she wasn't encouraged to do. Your H should be your focus...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Yes, she is relentless and he is weak too. It's a perfect (?) combination for disaster. Which is why he needs to be alone until she's really gone.

 

I know how persistent she is because when he broke it off once before after some lies on her part, she started calling ME and begging to speak with him one more time. Of course I said no then she cornered him in a parking lot....he being weak was weak.

 

He knows that the back and forth isn't just causing more damage, which is why he is staying away for now to make sure he doesn't wobble again.

 

It's only been like a day lol. I'm way overanalyzing everything.

 

I just found out my grandmother is dying. She's 92 and isn't eating anymore, it's just a matter of time. It's one thing after another, I really need my husband here for support ?

[aileD]

I understand exactly how you feel Aile. I have similar thoughts and views. No one would blame me for leaving him, but I'm trying to stick it out because we have built a life together and shared many good times. I will only fight it out if he is willing to fully come clean though.

 

Once I have 50 posts we can chat. Lol.

 

I know the struggle

[Mr Blunt]

I just found out my grandmother is dying. She's 92 and isn't eating anymore, it's just a matter of time. It's one thing after another, I really need my husband here for support ?

 

If your husband gives you lots of support and forgets about his selfish concerns then that will be one test that will give you more hope

[aileD]

If your husband gives you lots of support and forgets about his selfish concerns then that will be one test that will give you more hope

 

Yes so true, I was thinking the same thing.

 

Well, so far today it appears they havent spoken. She usually calls him 10-15 times a day (per the phone bill). Nothing since mid day yesterday.

 

I know that may not mean there's no contact at all, but it's promising. And different from the norm.

 

I'm hopeful but just watching from a distance.

[Lobe]

Yes so true, I was thinking the same thing.

 

Well, so far today it appears they havent spoken. She usually calls him 10-15 times a day (per the phone bill). Nothing since mid day yesterday.

 

I know that may not mean there's no contact at all, but it's promising. And different from the norm.

 

I'm hopeful but just watching from a distance.

 

Her number should be blocked and not even register as incoming...

[aileD]

Her number should be blocked and not even register as incoming...

 

Maybe it is. He has an android, I have an iphone. I don't knew anything about androids.

 

I used to block her # via our cell carrier but then They would just chat via whatsapp or other services and I would have no idea.... I told him once they when he does that it uses all our data and costing us money we don't have. I unblocked her and now can see when he calls/texts her.

 

I haven't talked to him at at all about it since he said he was ending it with her. I'm just letting it see how it goes for now. He has to do this on his own.

Edited August 4, 2016 by aileD

[SweetiePi]

That would be nice. I'm sorry to hear about your grandma. I hope he can be a good man and be there for you through this. The separation agreement other's have suggested is a great idea.

 

 

I'm one that doesn't want to flush 15 years down the drain when there has been many wonderful times with him. I understand why you are making the choices you are. I don't see you as a weak person, but as a forgiving person that is trying to work hard to save your marriage.

 

 

I am not an angel and have not been the best wife over the years - he feels I was neglecting him sexually (it was after my mom died and I was grieving hard that sex was on the backburner). I have forgiven him, but I can't wrap my head around what my H did. I didn't see it coming or any signs. Maybe it was cause I trusted him so much and never thought to snoop. At this point I have separated from him to give some breathing room. He needs to get tested as I am getting tested. He needs to figure out his sexuality and preferences. I feel like a shell of a woman for not being able to please him. my confidence and self esteem took a huge hit.

 

 

Once I have 50 posts we can chat. Lol.

 

I know the struggle

Edited August 4, 2016 by SweetiePi

[Mr Blunt]

AileD

Thank you for answering my questions. You are braver than I thought!

 

By Blunt

7 What do you think the chances of him recovering his self so that he is strong enough to help you and the children?

 

By aileD

7. I have faith in him that he can heal from his childhood trauma. He is actually doing something about it now and realizing how it has affected him. Together or not I support him in this and will be there for him

 

 

By Blunt

8 If you believe that he is going to stop his selfishness and get strong enough, how many years do you think that will take?

 

By AileD

8. I don't know. I think the two differ. Obviously I can wait longer for him to be strong enough to help me and kids but the selfishness (affair) timeframe is shorter

 

 

AileD, you are not only braver than I thought but you have more faith and hope in your husband than I do. Childhood trauma such as your husband had is very hard to recover from 100%. In addition, your husband has waited for many years before he addressed that situation which makes it even harder. Also, your husband has shown a lot of disrespect of you and his children and has repeated that twice that you know of. I am not saying your husband cannot rehabilitate, I am just saying that the chances are very low and he may not rehabilitate to a very high degree IMO. He was severely damaged in childhood and he has severely damaged himself in adulthood.

 

Of course I do not know your husband as good as you and I hope that you prove me 100% wrong! You are too good of a woman to endure such abuse for another day!

[aileD]

Thank you Mr. Blunt.

 

I'm just tying my best. I do love him. I don't want to give up yet.

 

He's said he knows he can't be happy with her, that he can't find peace.

 

I just don't know how much being alone I can handle. I had to go to a wedding tonight and bring my daughter instead of him. It sucked. Not my daughter part but hearing the vows and being around family without him. Answering questions. Seeing the love.

 

Just sucks