scratch Posted June 29, 2005 Posted June 29, 2005 Originally posted by AliceW This is such a loaded topic. That's why I raised it. Originally posted by AliceW However, I worry that the day will come where exercising a reasonable amount and eating right will NOT be enough to keep me thin enough to be attractive to men. I'm not one of these women who feels that her entire self-worth comes from being sexually attractive, but I have a little healthy vanity and I do want to be seen as appealing.... You will be attractive to some men. It's unlikely that any given woman in your position will ever go "off" the scale for most guys, and tastes do differ to an extent. But in order to maintain your figure into your late twenties and beyond you'll have to constantly eat better, and exercise more. So long as you have enough vanity (less perjoratively characterized as pride and self-respect) to want to look a certain way, you'll do what it takes to get (or stay) there. Don't give up and rationalize it by saying "looks shouldn't matter anyway."
moimeme Posted June 29, 2005 Posted June 29, 2005 Seconded. This does cut both ways, however. Men study women's figures with dedicated precision. If you have a great body, we will buy you lots and lots of stuff. If you have a nice body, we will enjoy your company. If you're sliding, we will try to replace you with someone with a nice body. And, if you've fallen off, well, you become asexual to us. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Too many guys who have let themselves go to pot (literally) think they still have a right to judge their women's bodies. HAWNK - wrong answer.
westernxer Posted June 29, 2005 Posted June 29, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Too many guys who have let themselves go to pot (literally) think they still have a right to judge their women's bodies. HAWNK - wrong answer. Definitely goes both ways. No argument here.
scratch Posted June 29, 2005 Posted June 29, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Too many guys who have let themselves go to pot (literally) think they still have a right to judge their women's bodies. HAWNK - wrong answer. Ah, if only this were true, I'd be a happier man. I live in the gym, race triathlons, etc. I'm ripped. But my experience has been that women don't really care what kind of shape a man is in so long as he isn't so fat or thin that it immediately catches the eye when he's dressed. Maybe it has to do with the difference in how clothes fit men versus women, or simply a disparity in the amount of importance we assign to the bodies of the opposite gender. But, bottom line, none of this goose/gander stuff applies.
Author AliceW Posted June 29, 2005 Author Posted June 29, 2005 Originally posted by scratch But in order to maintain your figure into your late twenties and beyond you'll have to constantly eat better, and exercise more. Don't give up and rationalize it by saying "looks shouldn't matter anyway." I'm already 35, and I wear a size 2 or 4...so I guess I'm doing OK so far! And I agree that looks definitely do matter...but for me, it's more a question of where you draw the line. For example: Would I like it if my BF was built like an underwear model? Yes, of course. Do I love him any less if he is not? No, of course not. Do I expect him to look like an underwear model, given that he is 36 years old and works full-time at an office job? No, of course not. Would I have a problem with it if he developed a big pot belly and didn't try to change his habits to get rid of it? Yes, I certainly would.
Author AliceW Posted June 29, 2005 Author Posted June 29, 2005 Scratch and Moimeme: I'm afraid I have to agree with Scratch...I think men do seem to care more about women's bodies than women care about men's, for the most part. I wish it weren't so, but I believe it is. I don't know why.
westernxer Posted June 29, 2005 Posted June 29, 2005 Originally posted by AliceW Scratch and Moimeme: I'm afraid I have to agree with Scratch...I think men do seem to care more about women's bodies than women care about men's, for the most part. I wish it weren't so, but I believe it is. I don't know why. Because we're horny, and a nice figure turns us on...
scratch Posted June 29, 2005 Posted June 29, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer Because we're horny, and a nice figure turns us on... There's far more to it. Evolutionary biology stuff, specifically how the female evaluative means for male desirability has evolved in an extremely different fashion than vice versa. But, we'll save that for tommorow. I'm headed, of course, to the gym.
Author AliceW Posted June 29, 2005 Author Posted June 29, 2005 well, we're horny too ...but for me, at least, if I had to choose between a smart, witty guy with an average body and a guy with an average personality who happened to be in in great shape, I'd go for the smart guy in a heartbeat! Brains are a much bigger turn-on for me...really and truly...it's not just a pious PC thing. Looks are a pass/fail thing for me...some guys are just too fat or such bad dressers or have such unpleasant faces that I just couldn't consider them...but if a guy is decent-looking, the personality becomes the key thing...
westernxer Posted June 29, 2005 Posted June 29, 2005 Originally posted by scratch There's far more to it. Evolutionary biology stuff, specifically how the female evaluative means for male desirability has evolved in an extremely different fashion than vice versa. Man, you're one intense dude.
laRubiaBonita Posted June 29, 2005 Posted June 29, 2005 Originally posted by scratch The implication of your question is that we cannot have successful relationships if we demand that our women work at keeping in shape, is that correct? no.....i was just wondering is all. so are you going to answer my question? and biologically a man Should NOT want a size 0-4...they would be too skinny, and in a time of famine, she would would certainly die with in weeks. and every person is constructed physically different. so one lady may try her hardest and still have big hip (or what-ever), because she has a larger bone structure.
westernxer Posted June 30, 2005 Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by laRubiaBonita and every person is constructed physically different. so one lady may try her hardest and still have big hip (or what-ever), because she has a larger bone structure. As long as she doesn't live at Cinnabon or Krispy Kreme and strives to stay healthy, I'm cool with it.
laRubiaBonita Posted June 30, 2005 Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer As long as she doesn't live at Cinnabon or Krispy Kreme and strives to stay healthy, I'm cool with it. but for some....ahem..........There is such a FINE line between Strive and obsession, and that goes BOTH ways. and you still never said how long you have been with out a SO.......or with, which ever.
westernxer Posted June 30, 2005 Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by laRubiaBonita but for some....ahem..........There is such a FINE line between Strive and obsession, and that goes BOTH ways. When did the fine line ever become an issue? No one ever mentioned being obsessed... that's something you brought up, not me or the others. and you still never said how long you have been with out a SO.......or with, which ever. Why? Is your sister available?
smile95 Posted June 30, 2005 Posted June 30, 2005 I used to eat very little and work out like a freak! Obsessed. I never lost any weight. As soon as I started to eat MORE and work out 4 days instead of 6-7, the weight came off?? I am not sure why, but it did. Your BC can SURELY have an effect. I lost 12 punds by switching to LevLite. A low dose pill.
laRubiaBonita Posted June 30, 2005 Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by beth5201 I used to eat very little and work out like a freak! Obsessed. I never lost any weight. As soon as I started to eat MORE and work out 4 days instead of 6-7, the weight came off?? I am not sure why, but it did. Your BC can SURELY have an effect. I lost 12 punds by switching to LevLite. A low dose pill. cause you were starving yourself. if you do not eat enough for your specific body requirements, Your boby thinks you are starving, so it desparately tries to hang onto what ever fat stores you may be trying to burn off.
laRubiaBonita Posted June 30, 2005 Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer When did the fine line ever become an issue? No one ever mentioned being obsessed... that's something you brought up, not me or the others. scratch, the tri-athelete, has isues with fat people, or so it seems to me. Originally posted by westernxer Why? Is your sister available? [] no.............plus she is terribly selfish, and inconsiderate.
westernxer Posted June 30, 2005 Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by laRubiaBonita scratch, the tri-athelete, has isues with fat people, or so it seems to me. You know how those New Yorkers are... no.............plus she is terribly selfish, and inconsiderate. The kind of girl I'd be complaining to LoveShack about? Perfect!
sophia34 Posted June 30, 2005 Posted June 30, 2005 Whoa, I missed all the good conversation! I'd hate to think my BF would dump me if I "let myself go," so to speak. He can dump me because I'm lazy or unattentive (which might contribute to "letting myself go") But anything could happen--I could get sick and have to go on steroids and get puffy. Or I could have a thyroid problem, or anything. Weight alone shouldn't matter. Rather it's the motivation behind the weight gain--It's never attractive for someone to just be a lump scarfing cookies all day. It's quite another thing if they're trying to stay healthy but other factors intervene. That said, I'm going to stay on the exercise and healthy-eating wagon. It's better to stay healthy, even if I never achieve my idea of perfection. I'm sure my 80-year-old, rollerblading self will thank me.
westernxer Posted June 30, 2005 Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by sophia34 I'd hate to think my BF would dump me if I "let myself go," so to speak. Reminds me of what my cousin did when his wife was pregnant with their first child... he bought her one of those push carts to put the child in so she could run with it. He was so paranoid about her weight, and he made no bones about it. She was already active to begin with, but still... it was fun to see the horror in his face at the thought of her gaining weight. By the way, Sophia, looks like you made it just in time...
laRubiaBonita Posted June 30, 2005 Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer The kind of girl I'd be complaining to LoveShack about? Perfect! OMG...Yes! she just turned 19 going on 28........last week. this morning, she said only one thing to me..."why can;t you leave your window shut? it make ME soooo hot and humid." i think everyone im y families house, minus her, leaves their window open at night........unless it is over 80. so all the humidity Is my fault? But, she is the big-hipped one, who eats fast food, even though she HAS a membership to Balley's that she used the first few weeks. so Yeah..........she is the BOMB~!
scratch Posted June 30, 2005 Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer Man, you're one intense dude. It's more fun for me to think analytically about stuff than to just banter about, at least on messageboards. I have a silly side, of course, but tend to save it for stuff involving midgets and the special olympics. Originally posted by laRubiaBonita no.....i was just wondering is all. so are you going to answer my question? and biologically a man Should NOT want a size 0-4...they would be too skinny, and in a time of famine, she would would certainly die with in weeks. and every person is constructed physically different. so one lady may try her hardest and still have big hip (or what-ever), because she has a larger bone structure. Sure, I'll answer. I am no longer with my most recent SO. Do recall that you claimed the only reason you wanted to know was random curiousity, not because you were trying to draw any parallels between my feelings about fat people and my success in relationships. Are you sure you were being truthful about that? Okay, to address your claim of what a man should be driven toward biologically - you don't seem to have an extensive grasp of human physiology, or evolutionary bio. First of all, overweight women are not more likely to survive a famine than skinny women; healthy women are more likely to survive than unhealthy women. Health is what males look for, which you correctly implied. However, it's primarily a matter of reproductive health, delinated by how curvaceous a woman is. While this changes among eras and cultures (different bone structues come in and out of vouge), thinner women tend to display their curves in a more alluring manner than heavier women. I tried to keep this short, but will expound if you want further clarification. And, yes, I have something of a problem with fat people. Of course, I'm making generalizations that don't apply to everyone, but fat people I know tend to: 1) complain about how they are, 2) refuse to accept that most other people don't or shouldn't like it, 3) make excuses for being that way, 4) make half-assed attempts to change, and 5) blame other people for looking down upon them for it. Again, these are generalizations. If someone is overweight, I am still willing to get to know them, and assess their attitude and actions on a singular basis. If they show be that they don't exhibit behavior patterns 1-5 above, I will respect them and effectively disregard their weight. Could I date someone overweight? I honestly don't think so. I don't think I could date a burn victim either. Physical attraction is necessary for me.
ReluctantRomeo Posted June 30, 2005 Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by scratch It's more fun for me to think analytically about stuff than to just banter about, at least on messageboards. Okay, to address your claim of what a man should be driven toward biologically - you don't seem to have an extensive grasp of human physiology, or evolutionary bio. This would be a fun topic for a new thread... evolutionary biology and mate choice in humans I could discuss until the cows come home. And I suspect Otter and Moi would be up for it too...
scratch Posted June 30, 2005 Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by ReluctantRomeo This would be a fun topic for a new thread... evolutionary biology and mate choice in humans I could discuss until the cows come home. And I suspect Otter and Moi would be up for it too... By all means, spin it off. It's a potential hornets' nest, as you know, because of the seemingly superficial implications that are very unpopular here. As an aside, you never got back to me about that Prisoner's Dillema stuff, did you?
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