The 'past is the past' rule. Does it always apply?

[BettyDraper]

No one is 100 percent trustworthy.

 

Everyone lies. People who claim they have never lied to their mother, sister, father, priest, are lying to themselves. In those cases, those people can not even trust themselves. Ironic is it not?

 

IMO, the sooner people realize this, the better their lives will be because they will not have UNrealistic expectations.

 

It is human nature to lie for various reasons.

 

IMO, you judge someone for who he is and how he treats you WHEN HE IS WITH YOU.

 

I am curious Mazza, what country are you writing from?

 

Everyone does lie but telling such serious tall tales in a relationship is inexcusable.

 

A man who has integrity wouldn't have slept with a girlfriend's mother. He wouldn't neglect his children either.

[Satu]

*No, I'm not sure. I do know I love him. I do know I want to be with him. I do know I don't hold the past against him in as much that I wouldn't be leaving because he did these things. But as has been said there is now a lot of current and ongoing issues we have to deal with. I'm not sure if I can, or if I want to, or if I should. But the thought of throwing away 7 years, especially given I love him, seems wrong.

 

*You need to get to a point of certainty with this.

 

Certain that you can, or certain that you can't.

 

Get some individual counselling, to explore your feelings and options.

 

Even just a handful of sessions, might be enough for you to reach that certainty.

 

I hope he realises what a wonderful woman he has in you.

 

 

Take care.

[Orion39]

This is a difficult situation to take in, I can't imagine how you feel-I'm sorry that you are struggling to know what to do. I could see this going either way and while people can change I think there is always a part of the past that influences the present. But if I were judged for how I acted when I was 17 or even 5 years ago I would not want to be held accountable now for what I was back then. However, sometimes the sins of the past do come back and we have to live with these consequences. If you want to continue with this man I think counseling would benefit you both as a couple and as individuals. After that, evaluate where you stand and then try again.

[Anderlie]

He puts money straight into her bank account. Apparently she doesn't want it so it goes straight into a bank account for the kid. He has had a paternity test and it is his.

 

I'd still be very curious how this is supposed to play out OP. What is the mother going to say when she suddenly appears with a bunch of money for this kid one day? Nobody's going to ask questions? How did the paternity test get done without the husband knowing at all? Where was this husband while his grandchild was fighting for its life and his wife was getting flirty? Which, by the way, should be the last thing you want to do if your grandkid is dying. None of this adds up and I don't believe you.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Anderlie

[Poutrew]

And what are you going to do when the next set of twins contact him via facebook and tells him their triplets are his? Eventually his salary wont be enough to cover all those bases and then he will dip into yours.

 

This is why the past is never the past - because it is also the present and future as well.

[Mazza75]

So how many more children is it OK to have had and not know about?

 

I would have said the 2 I know about was it, but then there was 2 more and the truth is it didn't really change how I felt about him at all. If he had lied to me and he knew about them then that would have been a huge issue but he was devastated when he found out. To answer your question, I honestly don't know.

 

How old are all these children now?

 

The first 2 are in their 20's. The twins ones are late teens.

 

I am curious Mazza, what country are you writing from?

 

Australia

 

What he did or didn't do when he was younger is not the point. What is the pint is that he didn't tel you any of this until now, and the truth only came out because of a crisis.

 

Would he have hidden all of this from you if that hadn't have happened?

 

If you think the answer is yes, then how can you trust him if he will hide information from you?

 

The only thing he hid from me was that the 2 kids I knew about were from a mother and daughter rather than just 2 random women. Given I was adamant that the past was the past then I'm not sure why he would have told that.

 

Get some individual counselling, to explore your feelings and options.

 

I have done and am still going. I'm still conflicted though.

 

If I take all emotion out if this then I stay, simple as that. He has never done me wrong. He treats me well. Sure he has a past but mine is probably the equal or worse than his. Maybe if people knew of that then they wouldn't be so adamant that I should leave?

 

But, we don't live without emotion. When I add emotion into the mix it's hard not to feel let down. Is he really the man I thought he was? Is he really that into me or am I another notch in his belt? These are stupid teenage concerns, I should know that he loves me, it's not like we met at a bar a month ago. That's why I think sometimes that it's better to leave the emotion out of it.

[Mr. Lucky]

If he had lied to me and he knew about them then that would have been a huge issue but he was devastated when he found out.

 

It puzzles me you don't consider keeping the fact that his two existing children were fathered with mother/daughter to be deceptive.

 

"Past is past" means your partner has No responsibility to reveal anything to you? STD? Criminal conviction? Nothing?

 

Mr. Lucky

[MissBee]

 

If I take all emotion out if this then I stay, simple as that. He has never done me wrong. He treats me well. Sure he has a past but mine is probably the equal or worse than his. Maybe if people knew of that then they wouldn't be so adamant that I should leave?

But, we don't live without emotion. When I add emotion into the mix it's hard not to feel let down. Is he really the man I thought he was? Is he really that into me or am I another notch in his belt? These are stupid teenage concerns, I should know that he loves me, it's not like we met at a bar a month ago. That's why I think sometimes that it's better to leave the emotion out of it.

 

Mazza75, you started the thread asking about if the "rule" about the "past is the past" is always true. In short. No. Your situation proves this.

 

Many past actions, choices, mistakes, dalliances, etc. have repercussions and consequences that linger beyond whatever "past time" they occurred. This is how real life goes. Certainly, impregnating someone (or several people) isn't something that one can say is "in the past" because here we are, in the present, and it's an issue and one's offspring isn't one's past at all.

 

Beyond that question though, what's the problem here? What does it boil down for you? You feel distrustful and feel like you don't know him....these are not silly concerns. This is why I said, it's silly to have relationships where you and your SO hide your past or downplay it because it is "bad." Why? Because sometimes what was in the dark comes to the light and then you get hurt, upset, confused and in shambles if you've invested and loved someone for years and realize you don't know the half of who they are...and yes...your past is part of who you are...it's silly to pretend otherwise. It doesn't mean you cannot change or grow but like I said, it speaks to your character and your own insecurities how you treat your past. For you and your guy it seems you're ashamed so you just hide stuff and pretend and then now when it all pops out it's devastating, whereas for others, they freely admit their past to their partner and any necessary details and therefore aren't building a relationship on half-truths and assumptions and no person will be able to pop up and destroy their relationship with the truth, why? Because they were already forthright about it.

 

It's also dangerous to write off stuff like sleeping with a mom and daughter and twins unprotected as silly mistakes. Most people wouldn't do that. So even the types of mistakes someone makes tells you a lot about them. It's not that you have to hold them to that "mistake" forever, but to be an informed partner in a relationship, built on transparency, you need to know the good and bad of who you're choosing so you're choosing with all the info. Ask yourself: how much can we really love each other or even know each other if we were too scared to disclose our most intimate deeds or issues? Relationships aren't about presenting the prettiest and most censored version of ourselves so someone chooses us, it's being ALL of us, the good, bad, ugly, silly, etc and if the person cannot accept it (which is their right) we walk away and find someone who does....not simply cherry pick so someone accepts us based on only part of the info.

 

If you knew all the details early on for example, and knew why he did it, the road to how he seemed to end up in this odd pattern, why he never used condoms and then HOW he grew and changed, you wouldn't have been here....as you'd have gotten intimate emotionally, which is important for relationships, and bonded, through being truthful about your mistakes or issues and then sharing how you'v grown. This is what builds trust in relationships. No one expects perfection. It's how we disclose and share our HUGE mistakes, baggage and issues that matter. Not ignoring or pretending we never did anything and then essentially having a superficial relationship that tries to act like who we meet today just formed that moment we looked on them....that's more of a teen mentality.

 

I don't know what you have in your past that you say is worse...but maybe now is the time for you both to discard that nonsense mantra and be authentic and transparent and maybe disclosing everything all as an exercise might be helpful in rebuilding trust and feeling like you're being honest. You say he treats you well and know he loves you, okay, but do you have any other values or expectations besides that? What is that if you don't feel trustful? I'm not saying you should leave him, I'm saying really reevaluate how you conduct your relationship and what value you put on honesty, trust, authenticity and transparency and then try to work this situation with that in mind. You talk about teenage concerns, but in reality, teenagers are the ones most likely to be shortsighted and to just focus on oh he loves me and I love him and they feel like that is all that matters....but adult relationships should be more rounded than that and should take a lot of other things into consideration in terms of their own emotional health and security.

 

I don't think it's wrong to stay, but I do think it would be a disservice to yourself if you stay while downplaying or ignoring the past as you guys practiced before. 7 years is a good chunk of time but a lot of it was built on not knowing the whole truth, so if you wanna stay, I do think the rest of your relationship HAS to be different and you have to stop with the whole "we don't discuss the past" thing, unless you're fine with a superficial relationship. Being more truthful, authentic and transparent is a MUST in my opinion, esp if you plan to weather this storm.

Edited June 30, 2016 by MissBee

[Anderlie]

[] is the mother of the kid she's hiding the parentage of claim the money she's putting into an account on tax? She would have to as it's classed as income and she would have opened the account for the child. How is she lodging jointly with her husband and he's not aware of this?

 

ETA: If this is something you don't know, ask your boyfriend. See if any of it adds up.

Edited June 30, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
off topic content ~6

[Cayemmo]

First, let me just say that it must have been pretty heartbreaking to get news like this from someone you care so much about.

 

Let me assure you that it's definitely possible for you to forgive your Fiancé, but circumstances being what they are, you'll need to ask yourself whether it's really worth the effort of forgetting - not only forgetting his past, but forgetting the pain you feel when you remember those moments of his past. Yes, EVERYONE makes mistakes, but (as you probably know already) carrying those issues into a lifelong marriage won't be easy.

 

What do you think you should do?

 

I also have to agree with one of the other forum writers who mentioned that once you're married, your financial situation might be more complicated than it is now that you both have separate finances. But if you love him that much and it sounds like you do, then are you willing to take on the responsibility of committing finically to those innocent children when you become his wife? You may want to give it some serious thought.

 

You mentioned going to counseling. You're a very smart girl because that's a great idea. I don't know if you're a believer in Jesus but I would encourage you to consider going to a Christian counseling with your fiancé before entering a lifetime bond. Unresolved hurt from his (or your) sexual past can slowly disrupt healthy and even very happy relationships.

 

I encourage you to use discernment and caution while choosing to move forward in marriage to someone with such a difficult sexual past. God wants the best for both of you. Most of all, He wants to see you and your fiancé healed- from the guilt, pain and shame that the consequences of our past can bring.

 

I pray He will guide you in whatever decision you make.

 

God bless.

[MrCongeniality]

This is my sticking point. Is he not trustworthy? Or was he not trustworthy?

 

Since we have been together before this whole mess hit us the only thing he has does wrong (and even then it's debatable) is that when he said he had 2 kids to 2 different women he didn't say that they were related.

 

Apart from that I have never found any issue that would make me think he is not trustworthy.

 

I do get what you are saying, I just want to be sure that I am not judging him on who he was, but on who he is. Doesn't he, doesn't everyone, deserve that?

If he has not done anything now in the present then you shouldn't leave him the past is the past. My wife kept a lot of secrets from me and part of me wil always distrust her but I will always love her.

[JoeSmith357-1]

I don't know how much you can beat up a 17 year old kid for making mistakes about not using protection (and remember, guys are only 50% of the responsible partner when it comes to getting pregnant...).

 

I got the impression this was 10 or 15+ years ago, he's a different person now.

 

Yeah, the FWB getting pregnant, that's his fault to a degree for not wearing a rubber, but wtf is the FWB woman doing allowing him to come inside her if she's not on birth control or IUD or something. And then not telling him about the kid for years. I think there's more to this story. But it was also before you were in the picture. So I don't see how it concerns you.

 

Financially, child support on 4 kids, I can't imagine that. I have child support for 1 kid, and it's financially hard on me sometimes. I could not imagine 4.

 

Ultimately it's your choice though...

[elaine567]

Yeah, the FWB getting pregnant, that's his fault to a degree for not wearing a rubber, but wtf is the FWB woman doing allowing him to come inside her if she's not on birth control or IUD or something. And then not telling him about the kid for years. I think there's more to this story. But it was also before you were in the picture. So I don't see how it concerns you.

 

Er... TWO FWBs both with kids by him, confirmed by DNA. The FWBs are also twin sisters

He seems to like family connections...

[MissBee]

If he has not done anything now in the present then you shouldn't leave him the past is the past. My wife kept a lot of secrets from me and part of me wil always distrust her but I will always love her.

 

You are in a relationship where you will always distrust your wife, but you love her, so the past is the past and is an example of why people should stay in relationships like this...

[Cherryz]

WOw. this topic got me asking myself if this is real happening on this earth.

 

The past is the past means that after you know,you wont pay the person or his past.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't know the past. YOU HAVE TO KNOW the past the closer and the more serious plans you got with someone.

 

Because the past can repeat. The person can fall back. And the past can be the reason he /she cant offer you certain things in the future.And it often also repeat in your kids!!!

Even if your kids never met their parents after bird, your or his past can repeat in them!

Your body records everything. So you cant do what ever even when you young etc. and think nothing will happen.

So we shouldnt be naive about peoples past. Listen to where they came from. And see if they did the work and are in a different place today.

And ask yourself what if this person gos back to his past will i still want to be wit him/her?

 

Im surprise that you ask if you have to stay with this guy!

He is very very messy and disrespectful!

There is this rule that you not suppose to even date your friends exes, let alone your ex mother and sister.And get them pregnant?NO way!

This is how your guy role. Thats his way of life.

 

He have no morels. He have no rules. He just go with comes on his way.

 

You need to break up with him or take what ever he will do to you.

Because he lied to you , he is being touchy with his exs mom, he ddnt stop first time, he keeps messing around with family's and making baby's.

Its a matter of time for him to mess with your family member's and more about his past comes up.

 

You are wasting your time. You wasted 7, dont waste any more time.

Why did it have to be the illness of his son for you to find out?

I bet 1000000000$ this guy got a more messy life that you can imagine!

Leave him! He is not father or marriage material! Its just drama and mess.

 

You should fight for gold not for trash!

You find things out as a warning to leave. Its up to you if you listen or learn the harder way!

Dont go by your feelings. Use your mind! The right feelings will follow later.

[Cherryz]

It shouldn't be you asking and researching what he is hiding.

 

If he such great guy now, he should have been open about this long time ago.

REAL open, not just what he finds ok to tell.

But the way things sound, its like he is just giving you some information and you are running around trying to find out more or not at all.

 

After doing all of that, if you still marry him, you will have to deal with him going to his exes( to see his kids) and some drama too.

Beside financially money yours will go to them. And your whole life will be about his kids and his baby mommas.

 

Past influences the future. You cant be blind and dumb.

[Cherryz]

Please don't think that I am defending him always, it's not my intention, but I have already asked myself these questions. It's interesting to get others' feelings.

 

Has he really shown a pattern?

 

Yes he was wrong to sleep with the mom of his gf, seduced or not. What else though? Sleeping with two sisters would be a lot of young guys fantasy. Everyone knew about everyone else so it's hard to put this down as part of a pattern. If I had 2 hot guys wanting to sleep with me when I was in my early 20's I can't say with any certainty that I would have said no.

 

The only real other thing is the not wearing of condoms. I ask my self how many others there might be. He can't answer that, no-one can, it's impossible to know.

 

So effectively he had one really weird affair and didn't wear condoms. Once I break it down it's really hard to totally crucify him for that. Am I missing something?

 

 

Hm, by reading this, i think we all are wasting our time replying.

 

It sound like you and him have kind of same "past" like sleeping around or sleeping without condoms , only different maybe is that you dont have kids now.

It looks like because of that you try to defend him and dont want to go to hard on him or want us to go hard on him because he may tell you that you was same way and you know you not better then him, but still feel bad of what you found out about him later on!?

 

I dont know. I think you not telling us everything. And maybe the 2 of you deserve each other!

 

Birds of a feather flock together:)

[Mr. Lucky]

If he has not done anything now in the present then you shouldn't leave him the past is the past.

 

My wife kept a lot of secrets from me and part of me will always distrust her

 

Don't these statements contradict each other ?

 

Hard to imagine living the rest of my life with someone I "will always distrust " ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[major_merrick]

Just to take away from the topic line.... the past is NEVER just the past. The past makes us exactly who we are today - both the good and the bad. Always judge someone by their past and compare it with who you know or suspect them to be. Most people do not change. Exceptions exist and we should be open to them, but always be wary. In your case, I wouldn't trust him at all!

[Mazza75]

It puzzles me you don't consider keeping the fact that his two existing children were fathered with mother/daughter to be deceptive.

 

Yeah it was deceptive. But that has to be offset with the fact that I told him the past is the past, so I guess some of that is my responsibility. Also he has to get some credit for placing his trust in me in telling me at all. Only 3 people in this world know the truth about this, him and her and now me. He trusted me enough that I wouldn't go and confront her. I give him credit for that.

 

Given the trust he has shown in me I ask the question that if I did keep asking about his past would he have told me? He may well have.

 

[] is the mother of the kid she's hiding the parentage of claim the money she's putting into an account on tax? She would have to as it's classed as income and she would have opened the account for the child. How is she lodging jointly with her husband and he's not aware of this?

 

I don't know the answer to this. We are in Australia so maybe the laws are different? It doesn't really change anything though. It's not a formal payment for the kid though, just him giving her money.

 

I got the impression this was 10 or 15+ years ago, he's a different person now.

 

Longer than that and he is different now. I suppose I can't really say that as I didn't know him then but I do know that he is a wonderful person now.

 

Yeah, the FWB getting pregnant, that's his fault to a degree for not wearing a rubber,

 

He certainly has faults, he has done some stupid things in the past. I am not trying to defend them although it seems to come across that way.

 

What I do know is that the person he is now is someone I love.

 

That doesn't mean that I am not struggling to come to terms with this.

 

The past makes us exactly who we are today - both the good and the bad.

 

I have been with him for 7 years. I know the person he is now. I love the person he is now. If his checkered past has made him that person why should I crucify him for that?

 

It seems that people want bad past decisions to ruin someones entire life.

 

Just to expand a little on myself, I was in what would best be described as a cult. I was initiated into this club by doing things I am not proud of (not illegal things). I have told him I have had a lot of partners, I have not told him a number. If he was posting here after finding out about my past would people also be suggesting he leave? I don't think that is fair. Who I am now is not anywhere near the person I was.

[Mr. Lucky]

If he was posting here after finding out about my past would people also be suggesting he leave? I don't think that is fair. Who I am now is not anywhere near the person I was.

 

Depends on his wants in a relationship partner. If one of those wants was a woman who hasn't had "a lot of partners" some might indeed suggest he leave. The alternative would be a life of resentment, self-doubt and dissatisfaction.

 

Only you can decide if this revelation means the same to you.

 

Are the twins looking for financial support for their children?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Tayla]

On a lighter note, this reminds of an old tune called:

I am my own grandpa.

 

Funniest lyrics, and fits the scenario somewhat...

 

This ops' guy is fertile to be sure.

[Mr. Lucky]

This ops' guy is fertile to be sure.

 

Amen.

 

Are the twins looking for financial support for their children?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

There's a sentence I never thought I'd write...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Anderlie]

don't know the answer to this. We are in Australia so maybe the laws are different? It doesn't really change anything though. It's not a formal payment for the kid though, just him giving her money.

 

I'm Australian too. It changes a lot if a few years from now the woman has to suddenly explain where a bunch of money has come from for the child, to either the tax office or her husband. The past could very well come back to bite the BF then.

[Cinnamonstix]

Yeah it was deceptive. But that has to be offset with the fact that I told him the past is the past, so I guess some of that is my responsibility. Also he has to get some credit for placing his trust in me in telling me at all. Only 3 people in this world know the truth about this, him and her and now me. He trusted me enough that I wouldn't go and confront her. I give him credit for that.

 

Just to expand a little on myself, I was in what would best be described as a cult. I was initiated into this club by doing things I am not proud of (not illegal things). I have told him I have had a lot of partners, I have not told him a number. If he was posting here after finding out about my past would people also be suggesting he leave? I don't think that is fair. Who I am now is not anywhere near the person I was.

 

Referring to the bolded, that does not apply. You are bearing too much of the responsibility for his lack of transparency. This is not the past. The bottom line is that it was a present lie by omission not to tell you that his children's mothers were related.

 

Unless you are still tied to the cult or had a child you gave up for adoption, your past actually is your past. Sure, it's dark past but the two situations aren't equal. Aside from that, in a 7 year relationship, I would hope that you have at least told him about your life in the cult, because it makes you who you are. If you don't have that level of intimacy with each other then it seems you're both afraid that you will not be full accepted the other.