Can I go mostly quiet?

[Ophelia25]

You do?? Where?? 99% of the posters here on all sides of the infidelity spectrum seem to just be in a lot of pain. Or they're recovering from having been in a lot of pain in the past. You're definitely not alone here.

 

I think the reason so many of the posters on here are in pain is because when we hurt, we look for support, understanding, companionship, empathy. When we are happy, or even getting by okay, we don't need it as much. I certainly don't feel alone when I read these posts, which is why I do.

 

Most recently I read a post from BabsinHealing I think it was, that seemed pretty blatantly "we've decided to keep this up and we need each other." She's just one example, but I felt like maybe since I've been in this so long, feel so entangled, we've gone through several D-Days and multiple attempts at NC, that ending it might be futile and cause both of us lots of useless distress if we can't keep it up. In which case I need to learn how to deal with it better. To let him come and go at will without falling to pieces every time. To concede that the highs are worth the lows and just ride them out. Privategal is right that I need to stop analyzing and questioning and worrying. Figure out what I want and do it. I guess I'm looking for feedback from those who did. Not only the ones who ended it because of the pain, or because of D-Days, but those who decided NOT to end it for whatever reason, and how they made that decision and how they fared.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Ophelia25

[Lobe]

Most recently I read a post from BabsinHealing I think it was, that seemed pretty blatantly "we've decided to keep this up and we need each other." She's just one example, but I felt like maybe since I've been in this so long, feel so entangled, we've gone through several D-Days and multiple attempts at NC, that ending it might be futile

 

Figure out what I want and do it. I guess I'm looking for feedback from those who did. Not only the ones who ended it because of the pain, or because of D-Days, but those who decided NOT to end it for whatever reason, and how they made that decision and how they fared.

 

Hello O. I'm so sorry you're in this situation.

 

A journey starts with a single step, and for you, that first step is complete, total, utter NC.

 

First, I think phrasing it that "ending it might be futile" is a hopelessly romantic idea, and part of what's stopping you from making that mental leap to go NC. You WANT it to be futile. You want it to be so indelibly written in the stars that no one can deny it, but that fact you're so confused and unhappy should be your first clue that that isn't the case or he'd forsake all others and be there with you already.

 

Second, I get the sense that you're fishing for validation on the first point. You're hoping to hear that yes, affairs work out OK if you just wait long enough, but you're s researcher so I am sure you've already stumbled across enough information to know that most affairs run their course in 6 months to 2 years, regardless of whether there's a d-day, with less than 5% ending in marriage, and marriages between APs are at least 2x as likely to end in divorce. The odds are against you so if you're looking for a sudden onslaught of happily married post-affair couples, you'd have better luck catching duck farts in a beer bottle.

 

You seem like a bright intelligent person - and you're allowing this to turn you into a shell of who you could be. The best chance you have at regaining your sanity and self-confidence is to go about the business of getting on with life. Whether MM is in the picture or not, right now strict NC is a win-win for you because once you start living your own life again instead of chasing the fog, you will regain your sense of identity and independence. You practicing silence will help grow stronger, while refusing to respond to him when he breaks NC will make sure that control remains in your hands, not his. If he is sincere about wanting to be with you, the next time MM contacts you, if it's not with a signed divorce settlement and an engagement ring you won't have any problems staying NC.

 

Lastly, the fact that you are writing about this in a place where your AP has access to it seems like a desperate reach for attention, the online equivalent of getting on your knees, clasping your hands, and begging. It's unfortunate that this isn't your safe space to vent, but what it could be instead is the place where you share your recovery, talk about the progress you're making, celebrate 1 day, 3 days, 5 days, 10 days, 10 weeks etc. of NC. Chart your progress without giving a flying rat's a$$ if you ever see him again. Fake it until you make it, because I promise you WILL make it.

 

Don't unglue yourself for him.

[ChickiePops]

I think the reason so many of the posters on here are in pain is because when we hurt, we look for support, understanding, companionship, empathy. When we are happy, or even getting by okay, we don't need it as much. I certainly don't feel alone when I read these posts, which is why I do.

 

Most recently I read a post from BabsinHealing I think it was, that seemed pretty blatantly "we've decided to keep this up and we need each other." She's just one example, but I felt like maybe since I've been in this so long, feel so entangled, we've gone through several D-Days and multiple attempts at NC, that ending it might be futile and cause both of us lots of useless distress if we can't keep it up. In which case I need to learn how to deal with it better. To let him come and go at will without falling to pieces every time. To concede that the highs are worth the lows and just ride them out. Privategal is right that I need to stop analyzing and questioning and worrying. Figure out what I want and do it. I guess I'm looking for feedback from those who did. Not only the ones who ended it because of the pain, or because of D-Days, but those who decided NOT to end it for whatever reason, and how they made that decision and how they fared.

 

Happy people don't generally join support forums like LS. People come here because they're unhappy and they want to know how to become happy.

 

In yours (and most people's) cases, that means cutting the controllable negative things out of your life..and that includes your affair..that includes most peoples' affairs. I'm sorry you're upset that you're not hearing people encourage you to keep sleeping with a married guy who has tried to dump you on multiple occasions until his wife finds out (and she will) and all hell breaks loose for all of you and everyone ends up getting even more scarred than they already are, but people are trying to save you from yourself. Some people are kind and some people are harsh but nobody seems to be getting through to you, and it's frustrating to watch someone willingly and happily dig their own grave.

 

Honestly I wouldn't encourage ANYONE, affair or not, to stay with someone who's tried to end the relationship 5 times. That is not healthy and it never will be. He is clearly trying to stop, and eventually one of you has to be the strong one and make it happen.

 

Support does not always mean coddling. Encouraging someone to do what they want when what they want is only going to hurt them a million times more in the end is not supportive, no matter how much it sucks to hear it.

 

The MM has had ample opportunity to walk away from his marriage and make you his primary relationship. He hasn't. Dump your husband and go find someone who makes you HAPPY. Someone who makes you the ONLY woman in his life and who doesn't repeatedly throw you under his car and run over you only to come and save you at the last minute..over and over and over again.

 

You can do better than this. Walk away.

[Girlfromcali]

I think the reason so many of the posters on here are in pain is because when we hurt, we look for support, understanding, companionship, empathy. When we are happy, or even getting by okay, we don't need it as much. I certainly don't feel alone when I read these posts, which is why I do.

 

Most recently I read a post from BabsinHealing I think it was, that seemed pretty blatantly "we've decided to keep this up and we need each other." She's just one example, but I felt like maybe since I've been in this so long, feel so entangled, we've gone through several D-Days and multiple attempts at NC, that ending it might be futile and cause both of us lots of useless distress if we can't keep it up. In which case I need to learn how to deal with it better. To let him come and go at will without falling to pieces every time. To concede that the highs are worth the lows and just ride them out. Privategal is right that I need to stop analyzing and questioning and worrying. Figure out what I want and do it. I guess I'm looking for feedback from those who did. Not only the ones who ended it because of the pain, or because of D-Days, but those who decided NOT to end it for whatever reason, and how they made that decision and how they fared.

 

I don't think for a second that Babsinhealing's A is going to have a happy ending, nor do I believe most here do, so please don't take that as an example how affairs "work". She was a mess when she joined and she'll probably be again. Years wasted I'm telling you.

 

You've gotten pretty wise and good advice here and you should be thankful for everyone who puts time and effort in trying to help you. The advice you have ITT is very valuable, hope you realize it.

[Ophelia25]

I feel bad that I'm somehow coming across as ungrateful for the advice I'm receiving or that people aren't getting through to me. All of you are!

 

I have been in this ridiculous situation for more than 8 years, in one form or another, and have only seriously been debating an escape for maybe a year or so. I read the posts on this forum voraciously, and I think carefully about each of them and how I might apply the advice to my own situation. There are so many people on here who are in various stages of recovery, and I want to understand all of them. While I might feel like my situation is somehow special or different, because it's mine, I recognize that affairs are simply bad, no matter how you look at them. There are no good answers and there are no ways to engage in them without serious damages to multiple people. I'm not asking for permission or support in continuing my affair. I'm not asking for any kind of validation that I'm right in wanting it or that there are any circumstances under which it should continue.

 

I suppose it seems like that because I'm so curious about the people who really HAVEN'T ended affairs, and how long that works, or doesn't work. My "limbo," if you will, is perpetuated by the fact that he and I rarely see each other, and when we do, I'm too worried about how WRONG it is to even be a decent mistress, if there is such a thing. I guess he's put up with a lot, which I suppose makes me even more baffled by why he keeps holding on to me. And pushing me away. And holding on.

 

Honestly, if we were to push through and just go all out, I'm fairly certain it would put an end to things. Neither of us could shoulder the guilt and we would crumble. I'd just rather it not happen that way. I hate that it HAS to be d-o-n-e and nothing else, so I guess I just keep fishing for viable alternatives. I'm so sorry that it seems I'm both immature and stubborn for that. I know all of you know so much better than I do, and have dealt firsthand with nightmares far more devastating than mine - thus the frustration. Please know that I appreciate your efforts and I really am trying to get to what's right.

[Girlfromcali]

Ophelia, we don't care if you're stubborn or immature. It's just frustrating to see someone wasting eight years of their lives for this "limbo".

 

We've been there, we know how hard it is, and that's why we're not judging you.

 

We can relate to all those feelings you're talking about. I myself drove my best friend crazy by trying to justify every single thing because I did not want to give him up. I still struggle daily. I wanna contact him, I wanna talk to him.. STILL!

 

But when there's another day where I was successful in keeping NC, I feel such accomplishment. I'm moving forward. It's worth it. It's the best feeling ever. It takes time to get there, though.

[ChickiePops]

I feel bad that I'm somehow coming across as ungrateful for the advice I'm receiving or that people aren't getting through to me. All of you are!

 

I have been in this ridiculous situation for more than 8 years, in one form or another, and have only seriously been debating an escape for maybe a year or so. I read the posts on this forum voraciously, and I think carefully about each of them and how I might apply the advice to my own situation. There are so many people on here who are in various stages of recovery, and I want to understand all of them. While I might feel like my situation is somehow special or different, because it's mine, I recognize that affairs are simply bad, no matter how you look at them. There are no good answers and there are no ways to engage in them without serious damages to multiple people. I'm not asking for permission or support in continuing my affair. I'm not asking for any kind of validation that I'm right in wanting it or that there are any circumstances under which it should continue.

 

I suppose it seems like that because I'm so curious about the people who really HAVEN'T ended affairs, and how long that works, or doesn't work. My "limbo," if you will, is perpetuated by the fact that he and I rarely see each other, and when we do, I'm too worried about how WRONG it is to even be a decent mistress, if there is such a thing. I guess he's put up with a lot, which I suppose makes me even more baffled by why he keeps holding on to me. And pushing me away. And holding on.

 

Honestly, if we were to push through and just go all out, I'm fairly certain it would put an end to things. Neither of us could shoulder the guilt and we would crumble. I'd just rather it not happen that way. I hate that it HAS to be d-o-n-e and nothing else, so I guess I just keep fishing for viable alternatives. I'm so sorry that it seems I'm both immature and stubborn for that. I know all of you know so much better than I do, and have dealt firsthand with nightmares far more devastating than mine - thus the frustration. Please know that I appreciate your efforts and I really am trying to get to what's right.

 

Unless I am mixing you up with another poster, you say your husband is aware of the affair and is fine with it, correct?

 

If so, why not find a single guy who's just looking for some fun? Then you don't hurt any innocent people, you don't have to be a secret, and you probably won't get dumped unless he meets someone he wants to be in a relationship with. It's a win/win for everyone!

[privategal]

Ophelia,

I too gave it 15 years, close enough to your amount of years to know in hindsight I robbed myself of time spent crying oceans of tears for a false relationship that wasnt going to last. Im super hard on you and care about you too much to ease up.

On the otherside...now two plus months of NC I have never felt more pain...but I have also never felt more freedom and I believe if I just dont look back this time, the healing will come, I just need to keep going.

Its too much, too hurtful to stay in an A where you are constantly looking for the love you arent getting...he cant give it to you and you cant wish it into existance.

The end will never feel good or right, timing wont feel right, you just gotta say leap, no wings, without him and dive then into new research, vacation, advebture...whatever you want but just know the pain you will feel without him feels better than the pain of being "with" him inside an empty affair. I hope you can.

Edited June 8, 2016 by privategal

[Poppy47]

Ophelia,

I too gave it 15 years, close enough to your amount of years to know in hindsight I robbed myself of time spent crying oceans of tears for a false relationship that wasnt going to last. Im super hard on you and care about you too much to ease up.

On the otherside...now two plus months of NC I have never felt more pain...but I have also never felt more freedom and I believe if I just dont look back this time, the healing will come, I just need to keep going.

Its too much, too hurtful to stay in an A where you are constantly looking for the love you arent getting...he cant give it to you and you cant wish it into existance.

The end will never feel good or right, timing wont feel right, you just gotta say leap, no wings, without him and dive then into new research, vacation, advebture...whatever you want but just know the pain you will feel without him feels better than the pain of being "with" him inside an empty affair. I hope you can.

Privategal,

I find your post inspirational. I am NC after 8 years of off again on again.

 

Thank you.

 

POppy.

[privategal]

Privategal,

I find your post inspirational. I am NC after 8 years of off again on again.

 

Thank you.

 

POppy.

 

Thats so awesome Poppy!

Its hard after 8 years I bet.

It is so worth it though.

[jenkins95]

You three truly inspire and humble me. These relationships lasted longer than many marriages. I can't imagine the depths of despair and pain that you have been in at times.

 

But here you are, being strong, trying to recover, looking for support and trying your best to help and advise others. You are fantastic human beings...and you will get there.

 

With 8 years invested, I can so see why Ophelia is exploring options other than NC - I think she needs to go through that exploratory process given the time and investment involved.

 

I personally hope you will eventually conclude that NC is the path you need to take - and as soon as possible. But I see that this is a journey and a decision that you have to make yourself. All we can do is advise and support. Know that we are here for you whenever you need us. Thinking of you

 

 

Thats so awesome Poppy!

Its hard after 8 years I bet.

It is so worth it though.

Edited June 9, 2016 by jenkins95

[Disillusioned_2011]

From my own experience reading about hundreds of As and what I went through in my own A, there is a stereotypical pattern into which your A appears to fit.

 

Most As start in a light, sexy, easy, exciting, fun, naughty way. As things proceed, the OW constantly strives to "move to the next step", to make things more serious, to get some commitment from the MM. At the same time, the MM is doing exactly the opposite. He wants the A to stay exactly as it was in the beginning - fun, exciting, laughter, lots of great sex, no strings, peace when he is with his family.

 

As things move on, a sort of middle ground develops. Things inevitably do get a little more serious, the MM does (and he wants to) spend more time and effort on the OW, the "I love yous" start and so on.

 

But there seems to be a critical point at which the MM starts to feel increasingly uncomfortable and probably privately spends a lot of time worrying and wondering how things got this far, this was meant to be fun, now it is quite stressful, etc. He may also become aware of how deeply he's fallen for the OW and start to get confused about his own marriage, etc. Again, this is a very uncomfortable realisation, and wasn't meant to happen. He may start to increasingly withdraw and bury his head in the sand at this stage. At the same time the OW is becoming increasingly frustrated: he's spending more time with me, he tells me he loves me, but why is he now pulling back, why does he avoid the big questions. What is going on?

 

I realise that this is a massive generalisation, but we do see the pattern over and over again.

 

It's sad and it causes so much pain and frustration to so many people. Bottom line, affairs are a very bad idea, but sadly they are very easy to fall into...and a nightmare to get out of.

 

NC is the only reliable exit strategy unfortunately.

 

We are here Ophelia, whichever way you decide to go with this. Keep posting. When you are happy again, just think how great it will feel.

 

 

 

That's interesting. I think that's what's happening with my mm. Basically what you're saying, Jenkins, is that most mm would continue forever if you let them continue and don't apply any pressure? As a single OW, I was originally in for the NSA fun, and he (not me) was the one starting the commitment talk later on. I think it was fantasy talk on his part and we've had some bumps along the road due to this (me questioning things, how / how serious / what is BS thinking about D / how much longer / what's the schedule / etc.) -- we wouldn't have had those bumps and hiccups if he hadn't started the "I want to marry you" convo in the first place. But I think at some point he fell in love. So did I, but I really never expected anything.....because I'm a realist .... now I am kind of in "limbo" - because I have started hoping, hoping he means what he says.

Anyways - I'm just going back to not expecting anything, because I know i can do it. Better than losing him as a result of too much pressure. Of course, it will be a whole different ballgame if there's a DDay. Fingers crossed there won't be one. It's been a long-term A, so it could happen any time - or never. And yes - I'm dating others.

[yodelwithyu]

Dearest Ophelia,

 

I know your situation is very different than most regarding your husband and your marriage. But at the end of the day, somehow, most of us OWs end up in the same way. We just take different paths as our starting circumstances were different. I really don’t have much to say except really just look within yourself and be kind to yourself. I am sorry you are having such a tough time. For most of my life, song lyrics have spoken my mind, So I want to share this with you:

It's like you're screaming, and no one can hear. You almost feel ashamed that someone could be that important. That without them, you feel like nothing. No one will ever understand how much it hurts. You feel hopeless; like nothing can save you. And when it's over, and it's gone, you almost wish that you could have all that bad stuff back…

so

that you could have the good.

—Narration at the beginning of Rihanna’s “We Found Love”

 

I think this is the most apt description of what I read and what I felt myself of how most OWs feel when they are trying to end it, thinking about NC or are actually done. The key words are “almost wish that you could have all that bad stuff back…so that you could have the good.” You will reach a point when you will say on MOST days, “Nope. Don’t wish the bad back even for the good. The pain I feel now is excruciating, but I am not giving someone else the power to cause it.” I am not saying it that in your deepest hour you won’t almost wish it—that would be a lie. I don’t think you are there yet. When you are, you will know. And when you do get there, we will be here. And though it is a really strange dynamic with your husband, you have the added benefit of knowing, in his unique way, he will be there too.

 

Wishing you strength,

Y