AlwaysGrowing Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 You know....I am willing as are many many others....to help those who ask. But I watch to see if anything soaks in....if there is any kind of positive response...if there is any movement toward someone at least "trying" to better themselves and their situation. I grow impatient when an OP comes here...asking for help....and then rejects or ignores every piece of advice given to them. I can't stand when an OP...stays in the same place....when we go round and round and round...and we all give the same advice over and over and over.....and the OP argues ...back...because after all....they have to do it their way. This is actually true....they do....and it is not one size fits all. But it is very obvious when an OP is making no attempt to "fix" himself....or his situation. MrD.....I understand that "breaking up" is hard to do. Because you do not know what your wife's reaction to all of this will be...and none of us likes to be taken off guard. I often advise both betrayeds and waywards...to seek therapy...and to seek legal advice. Being prepared is a good thing. Thinking things through is a good thing. Exploring all avenues...is a good thing. Using others for our own personal gain is not ok. Stringing others along because we are indecisive...is not ok. You truly need to withdraw from your lover....in fairness to the both of you. It is not fair...to either of you...for you to continue contact...especially since she made it clear she wants you to either commit to her or leave her alone. You owe her that much. Playing with another persons emotions is destructive. Now I do have sympathy for your lover...I don't like to see anyone hurt....and your actions toward her...hurt her. She has a whole list of reasons why others might think she deserves exactly what is happening to her....because she too has made some really poor choices. To some degree I agree...and I also agree...you deserve what you get. The only person who does not deserve what is happening to them...is your wife. and this is where I become angry and impatient. Your wife....does not deserve this. She does not deserve to be sick....she does not deserve your withdrawal...she does not deserve to be disrespected....she does not deserve any of this. She is in a marriage....that she trusts in...she believes that you are going to be there for her...in sickness and in health... She has no idea...that the man she loves and trusts and depends on...is about to blow up her whole world. This is truly a case of infidelity that must be disclosed.....because I guarantee that your wife will find out. Your ow....will tell her...I have no doubt. In an affair....the more people who know...the more likely it is to be discovered. You are in an affair with a woman who has a child....and you have become active in that child's life. How open ...how public ....has this affair been? Restaurants, Theaters, hotels...etc. Trails exist......you will most definitely be found out. I can tell you that disclosure....while terribly difficult...is much better coming from you....than her finding out from other means. So....you need to decide...how and when you need to do this. Telling her while she is ill....is a horrible choice.....but the longer you wait.....the worse the situation will become. I believe...you should disclose...and the sooner the better. So....here is a plan... .. become honest with yourself....have no contact of any kind with your lover....seek therapy....seek legal advice...and disclose to your wife about this affair. When this occurs...your wife may ask you to leave...or you may even believe you need time alone as well. OR...she may beg you to stay. Either way...be prepared as to what your answer to her will be. Do not agree to reconciliation...unless you are absolutely sure you want to put in the work to achieve it. Do not "string" your wife along...like you are your lover. I believe you are a good person....who has made a very bad choice. I believe you will look back on this and grieve for all of the things you have done...I believe you will eventually realize the path of destruction your choices have caused others....and you will one day....mourn. There are choices we make that we can never undo....and this will be one...that someday you would give anything if you could go back and undo it. But that is not today...today..you are selfish...today....you are a user....today....you are a coward. There is nothing more to add to this thread beyond this. MrsJA is correct. There is no desire for change from the OP. Only more posts that throw more "affair" cliches out there (denying wife sex, saviour complex, addiction). IMHO....his wife and OW aren't the only ones being strung along...we are too. 5
ShatteredLady Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 Why is it those who think themselves heroes & saviors are the most shallow & weak & emotionally destructive of all? A real hero gets-up every single day & does good. It's not always big & flashy. Not always a parade of gratitude. Good is as good does! So...you're going to spend your life saving every poor little single mum that crosses your path? So your plan is to screw-up the lives of women AND children to save them? When did your mothers mental problems start? When did your father give-up & leave for some other woman? The emotional carnage you are causing is horrific. You have now created a wife (remember the one you made all of those vows to? The one who's only guilty of working hard for BOTH of you to have a better life?) who's loosing all self-esteem as we talk. She's sick. She's frightened (no matter how brave she's acting). She's alone. Her husband won't be physical with her...what's she thinking to explain that?? Her H is distant, grumpy & mean. She can't do anything right. She's probably got a big dose of self loathing to handle here. The stress & anxiety will make her recovery much harder. Depression after major health issues is common. It took me nearly 9 months to find the flower & gift receipts & some of their messages. Every single day for 9 MONTHS I felt like an utter failure, a burden, loathed. I'm still very damaged. Day after day I battled myself to be the very best wife I could be but nothing worked. It was all my fault. Day after day I felt rejected & despised just for being sick & not good enough. Day after day I was on trial & I didn't even know what I was guilty of. I believed that if I did the right thing I could save my family. Nothing was good enough. I wish I could tell your wife! It's been nearly a year now & I'm still so broken. You think that you hurt. You think the OW hurts & needs saving. Neither of you know what pain is! I consider myself an empathic person. I do feel for you & the OW. I'm not saying that I think you don't feel pain & confusion. It might take both of you quite a while to recover from the affair that you BOTH CHOSE! You BOTH entered into voluntarily. This is changing the person that your wife is! It's fundamentally changing her as a human being. You are killing something inside of her & you have the audacity to call yourself a knight in armor who wants to save women!!! 4
ShatteredLady Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 Mr Devlish. Are you really reading & processing the words that are being written? You seem to be hiding behind the "I can't help myself" & "It's an addiction". Have you spent as much time online researching your wife's illness so you can understand, help & support her? It's disturbs me that I can explain how awful this...I mean THIS stage (treating her badly, withdrawing etc) both mentally & PHYSICALLY for your wife but you respond with how many emails you sent the OW (After she told you how much PAIN you are causing her!) & how you're sexually rejecting your wife. You just can't help yourself though!!! You're a grown man. Leave your wife or leave the OW alone. The reasoning you've presented so far is less mature than my 6 years old! 3
Lady Hamilton Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) From where I sit, the solution is pretty clear cut. Stay if you're going to stay, go if you're going to go. Stop sorting through how OW feels and how you feel to try and make either staying or going sound like you're doing something heroic. Staying because your wife is sick (what is she sick with?) isn't doing her any favors, and going when she gets well doesn't either. Everything that's not you deciding what to do is just pointless chatter designed to make you feel good about whatever choice you make. That letter is hardly filled with pain... It's filled with self-indulgence, attempts to guilt you to the outcome she clearly wants, and way too much Nicholas Sparks-like drama. Judging from the letter, I suspect if you leave, you will not find her the committed and lovesick partner you think she is. She loves the show, not the players. Edited June 5, 2016 by Lady Hamilton 5
Sassy Girl Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 Now i am getting bit paranoid. Didnt think it was a big issue in sharing the letter but maybe in hindsight i shouldnt have I'd be more worried about when your wife finds out you shared her personal medical information with your OW. That is NOT your informations to share - with anyone- and one of the grossest violations I've seen from this thread. 4
Mr Blunt Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) cannot respond Edited June 5, 2016 by Mr Blunt
wmacbride Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 I see the term "addiction" being used when it comes to A like yours, and when I see that, it makes me cringe. I'm not any sort of expert in neurobiology, so I don't know if the term addiction is apt or not. From my point of view, it's too often used as a way to shirk responsibility for one's own actions. After all, if one is addicted, how can they be expected to just quit cold turkey and and not keep being pulled under by the current of their addiction? How can they not keep in contact with their ow or om? After all, they are addicted , so they can't just quit the hurtful behavior they are engaged in. in many circumstances, it really does sound like addiction is being used to rationalize the fact that the person in question simply doesn't want to stop the behavior. Op, if you truly feel you are addicted to the A, then you need help to quit. You likely won't be able to get the monkey off your back on your own. In your case, there is a further complication. Your wife is ill and is facing a long road ahead of her. She needs you there 100%, not 50% or 75% or even 90%. You simply can not do that for her if your mind is muddled with thoughts of the ow. For all the love you have ever felt for your wife, and for all the time she has been there for you, either commit to being there 100% for her now or get out of the way so someone else can. She will be depending on you. Don't let her down by either not being there for her completely or by allowing her to think she can lean on you when she really can't. 8
Moxie Lady Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 Shattered Lady, your honesty, sincerity, and pain come thru so clearly in your posts. If the OP cannot hear you and understand what he is doing to his wife and do the right thing then nothing is going to change him. But you are helping someone out there if not him. 4
ShatteredLady Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 Sassy. Very true.... "I'd be more worried about when your wife finds out you shared her personal medical information with your OW. That is NOT your informations to share - with anyone- and one of the grossest violations I've seen from this thread." ....after reading some of the correspondence between my H & OW regarding the private details of my health have deeply hurt me more than words can explain. I'm now going through some insecurities that I'm more comfortable questioning complete strangers on a forum about than my own H! I haven't confided in him. I'm terrified by some symptoms I'm currently experiencing but I have no-one to discuss them with. Once you've read your most embarrassing, agonizing, terrifying details mocked & judged, used as emotional 'fluffing' of the OW it's impossible to share & trust again. Once your most traumatizing health issues are given as justification for the affair that ripped your heart & soul apart... you suffer in silence. The only thing worse than the terror of chronic pain & life threatening illness is enduring it all alone in your head because you feel judged & less worthy of love, respect, even privacy because of them! 1
ShatteredLady Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 I grew-up in a world where people were addicted to things like alcohol & heroin. Now we live in a world where ANYTHING that gives our brain a thrill is an uncontrollable addiction. Anything from fast food & coffee too members of the opposite sex, texting, porn, computer games etc can be called addictions to absolve people of any responsibility for their actions. 3
Mrs. John Adams Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 I grew-up in a world where people were addicted to things like alcohol & heroin. Now we live in a world where ANYTHING that gives our brain a thrill is an uncontrollable addiction. Anything from fast food & coffee too members of the opposite sex, texting, porn, computer games etc can be called addictions to absolve people of any responsibility for their actions. We live in a world of excuses Nothing is our fault Everything is disposable The world revolves around me 5
understand50 Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 MrDevlish, I posted in another thread, that does have a similar issues, but in that one she has gone No contact. I think the idea works for you are well, and I will re post and expand on it. "In every life, there comes a time where you have to decide what type of person you are. Sometimes there are several times. This is one of those times for you. You know that the best, moral, and honorable, thing to do, is to tell your wife everything and let things fall where they may. This will take great courage from you, much more then the "courage" it took to cheat. Keeping this to yourself, taking the easy way, makes what could be a "Fundamentally good person, slipping and doing a bad thing" into a just "fundamentally bad person". This is the trap that infidelity sets for good people, and all people who engage in it. You have dis-honored and cheapened yourself. You have done the same to your wife and your marriage. The only way back, is total honesty, and facing up to your actions, no mater how it hurts you. " I think what really is holding you back from doing what you know is moral, is the fact that you are afraid of the consequences. For both your AP, and your wife, you owe them to man up and show that you can decide which one to go with. For me, it would be my wife, as I have a vow with her, and she has kept hers. You need to find the courage, and then use it to tell your wife about the affair, and that you may leave her to go to your lover. At this point everything is out of your control, she will ether give you a second chance to work it out, as may your lover, or they may both not. You will not be able to have both. This is what is frighting you. Sad part is if you do not take action now, you may have it taken from you. Face your fears, do what is right, let the chips fall where they may. When they do, work on being the best, and most honorable man you can be, and remember, it is not about you. I wish you luck, and more importantly courage to do the right thing....... 1
ShatteredLady Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 The other big issue is the whole 'I'm in luv with my OW but after all these years I'm not sure I'm in love with my wife. Our marriage is great. I love my wife but I don't feel the same passion 'In Love' feelings'. Commonly known as the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" stage. Falling in love makes us all very happy. I've learnt that my H & I were pretty weird. Our "In Love" lasted a strangely long time, over a decade! I think our life style contributed to that. Any psychologist, scientist, reader of subject books will tell you that it's basically impossible to maintain that chemical flooded brain high for eternity. If you are in love with falling in love don't get married! Monogamy is NOT for you. Deep, true, meaningful love that endures is more than the chocolate box high. NEW is exciting! DIFFERENT is fun! If that's truly what you want from life divorce & accept that you will change partners every few years. Just BE HONEST! If you truly want lifelong enduring love it takes character, dedication, honesty & work. That's why they have all of those words in the marriage vows. It's 'normal' to have times when commitment is pretty much all you've got to keep you together...that's where the work comes in. The passion & butterflies come & go. I have a friend who doesn't have long term relationships. I don't judge him. He's honest. He knows himself & I respect that. He's had a vasectomy. He's honest with every woman he dates. Know yourself. Be honest with yourself & those around you. Thinking that there's something wrong with your marriage because you don't get the obsessive butterflies 24/7 is a fools thought. 2
jenkins95 Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 SL, you write so well. So much of what you write rings true to me. This line just sent a little jolt of guilt running through me: - In my experience optimistic care givers hear the best possible outcome. husbands having affairs rarely come to appointments & if they do they're distracted by their messages on mobile devises. Cheating H's don't question surgeons & know the worst possible results Yep, guilty here. In my case it wasn't hospital appointments, it was meetings at my local school when my son was having difficulties. Sure, I looked serious, I nodded in the right places and dutifully (ironically) backed up my wife's side of the argument. But I wasn't really there. I didn't really care. I contributed nothing myself and was quiet. I often wonder what the teachers thought - I must have seemed like a pretty pathetic individual - a stereotypical disinterested father who considered all this stuff to be his wife's duty. I just wanted the meetings to be over so that I could go and check my phone. It brings tears to my eyes now how lost I had allowed myself to become. And from another thread: - Most WS change a LOT. The bs feels the distance growing. The bs feels the contempt, feel 'punished' for the slightest infraction, feel very worried for their WS & their marriage. The WS denies that anything is wrong, is over protective of their phone & computer, appears 'shifty' & very grumpy about everything! Ashamed to say I tick that box too. Please keep your incredibly insightful posts coming SL. This kind of wisdom and honest analysis is so valuable.
jenkins95 Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) MrD Like other posters, I am a little concerned at the nature of your recent posts...... I find myself playing these'games' which I cant seem to stop. Yesterday I sent the OW a few texts just normal conversation and she would only reply with answer without continuing the conversation. I fully understand she is trying NC but i find myself getting frustrated when I know I shouldnt. PLEASE stop MrD. These games are hurting you and the OW and just distancing you ever further from your wife, as well as completely disrespecting her. Well my wife and I havent really been intimate and although she has tried initiating it i just tell her im tired. I am definitely not in any position to take the moral high-ground, but you must see that this is cruel beyond belief? You deny her intimacy, and she doesn't even know why. Her confidence must be shot to pieces. She must wonder what on earth has happened to her marriage. I know what i have to do and its wrong the A but cant help myself. You can do better than this. What kind of excuse is "I can't help myself". I know you are deep in A fog because I said this kind of stuff to myself when I was there. I pray for everyone in your story that you come to your senses soon. The trouble is, there's little evidence in these kind of posts that you actually WANT to change. It's hard enough when you do want to, but when you don't seem to care, it's going to be very diffcult to move forward. Knowing and doing is a different thing. It is very much like addiction. People who lose weight know they need to control diet and exercise but can they or deep down do they want to But (continuing the analogy) there comes the point when these people get to a critical point - we've all seen the documentaries of bed-ridden morbidly obese people, right? At that stage, if they don't do something drastic, they are going to die - and pretty soon. There are parallels to be drawn here - your marriage is in the emergency room here. you must see that? MrD, from one MM to another, I do feel for you because I have been in that fog too, but you came here for advice right? Because you want to change yourself? Please, don't hide behind the "I cannot help myself" excuses. Take ownership now. Recognise that if you don't take action, the story will unfold anyway, taking it's own course. You still have power here at the moment - don't lose that. Get your head together please. We're here for you, but you have to start taking some of this advice seriously. You can do it! Edited June 6, 2016 by jenkins95 1
gemini6 Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 Mr D, Since you seem to be so confused....her ya go! How to Stop Having An Inappropriate Crush: 12 Steps Pretty simple step by step guide...good luck with it. 1
Noideanow Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 MrD Like other posters, I am a little concerned at the nature of your recent posts...... PLEASE stop MrD. These games are hurting you and the OW and just distancing you ever further from your wife, as well as completely disrespecting her. I am definitely not in any position to take the moral high-ground, but you must see that this is cruel beyond belief? You deny her intimacy, and she doesn't even know why. Her confidence must be shot to pieces. She must wonder what on earth has happened to her marriage. You can do better than this. What kind of excuse is "I can't help myself". I know you are deep in A fog because I said this kind of stuff to myself when I was there. I pray for everyone in your story that you come to your senses soon. The trouble is, there's little evidence in these kind of posts that you actually WANT to change. It's hard enough when you do want to, but when you don't seem to care, it's going to be very diffcult to move forward. But (continuing the analogy) there comes the point when these people get to a critical point - we've all seen the documentaries of bed-ridden morbidly obese people, right? At that stage, if they don't do something drastic, they are going to die - and pretty soon. There are parallels to be drawn here - your marriage is in the emergency room here. you must see that? MrD, from one MM to another, I do feel for you because I have been in that fog too, but you came here for advice right? Because you want to change yourself? Please, don't hide behind the "I cannot help myself" excuses. Take ownership now. Recognise that if you don't take action, the story will unfold anyway, taking it's own course. You still have power here at the moment - don't lose that. Get your head together please. We're here for you, but you have to start taking some of this advice seriously. You can do it! the black text, i thnk he is being very honest and true to himself and her by denying sex when he doesnt feel like it INstead of doing it with two:cool: ANd that way he is also giving his wife a chance at seeing with her own eyes something is wrong in their marriage, so that way he is halfway there in getting a solution to the dilemma
wmacbride Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 the black text, i thnk he is being very honest and true to himself and her by denying sex when he doesnt feel like it INstead of doing it with two:cool: ANd that way he is also giving his wife a chance at seeing with her own eyes something is wrong in their marriage, so that way he is halfway there in getting a solution to the dilemma That's some pretty warped logic. All he is doing is making her think there is something wrong with her, that he is angry at her because of her health issue or that he finds her unattractive because of it or for some other reason. Little by little, he is destroying he spirit of a woman who is already facing a huge issue in her life. I realize that some people will always and forever see an affair as being the fault of the betrayed spouse and that she or he somehow knows the A is going on, and just isn't saying anything. If I were a ws who wanted to save my marriage, I would disabuse myself of this type of notion as soon as possible and listen to people who have actually walked in a bs's shoes. 7
Noideanow Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 That's some pretty warped logic. All he is doing is making her think there is something wrong with her, that he is angry at her because of her health issue or that he finds her unattractive because of it or for some other reason. Little by little, he is destroying he spirit of a woman who is already facing a huge issue in her life. I realize that some people will always and forever see an affair as being the fault of the betrayed spouse and that she or he somehow knows the A is going on, and just isn't saying anything. If I were a ws who wanted to save my marriage, I would disabuse myself of this type of notion as soon as possible and listen to people who have actually walked in a bs's shoes. I would instead of thinking there is something wrong with me, take it for what it is, my man not being interested in me and adressing that and see if it changes and if not it is undeniable that the relationship is dead☹
Oberfeldwebel Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 Now, I can't stop thinking of her, and here I am rambling on. I'm not sure what I'm after by posting this message, as I know any responses will only be negative. Firstly never ask questions that you don't want the answer to. Secondly, I think that what you want is to eat your cake and have it too, that is an impossibility and completely unfair to your wife. The act of cheating on your wife is selfish in nature and does not describe a person that loves either of these women. I think that it is always best to end one relationship before you start another. So it is time to have a serious and honest conversation with your wife, I believe she has earned that right. Collectively, you need to decide if you are going to reconcile or divorce. Either way cut ties with OW until you are free of the first relationship. 3
dreamingoftigers Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 I would instead of thinking there is something wrong with me, take it for what it is, my man not being interested in me and adressing that and see if it changes and if not it is undeniable that the relationship is dead☹ A relationship is a series of choices between two people, not a living entity unto itself. That being the case, him rejecting her is just that.....him rejecting her. And she will wonder what she has done and what she is doing wrong. 6
tinkerbell16 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Yes, I have tried NC with OW. As she explains it she loves me but is now building a wall to protect herself and her daughter, which is understandable. I know my flaws and i know what I am doing is wrong and selfish. Just need to sort myself out which is why I posted here. Unfortunately, this A has resulted in pushing my wife away and also taking out my frustrations on her. Tell your wife so she can decide if she wants to be with you. That will put an end to your projection and "confusion".
tinkerbell16 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 op, is it at al possible that part of your A could be based on fear of your wife depending on you so heavily when she is ill, perhaps even a resentment of her needing to do so? Is it maybe even partly based on a fear of losing her to her medical condition? People cheat for all sorts of reasons, and sometimes, the paradox is that fear of losing their husband or wife can cause their spouse to detach somewhat from them. cheating is one sure way to make that happen. Of course, I could be shooting in the dark here, and maybe those don't apply to your situtaion at all. This is true and exactly what my ex said, doesn't make it hurt any less unfortunately. OP you owe your wife the truth.
tinkerbell16 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 OH GAG!! This is so obvious the "ultimatum" play...pick her or she's done. I have to say this woman is a piece of work. Guilt tripping you for "stringing her along". As if she was unaware that you had a wife and a life at home. She knowingly inserted herself into your marriage and now wants to give you an ultimatum, throw some blame and guilt in the mix hoping you will choose to be with her...typical and despicable. She asks "what kind of person am I?" You should probably ask that yourself - what kind of person is she? - that you are willing to throw away your wife for? A liar, a cheater, a manipulative, and quite narcissistic dirt bag. YIKES! IF YOU paid half of the attention you are giving the OW to your wife, you'd be head over heels in love with her again...it's all in YOUR head, where your thoughts are, is where your heart will always be. You can feed the A or you can feed your marriage - the grass is greener where you water it! The OW broke off her engagement, is taking her daughter's father away from her, turning him into a "part-time" dad - while he serves his country, no less. AND has the gall to use that little girl in order to "win the game". Yeah, you should definitely leave your wife for that!! The blaming of the OW seems unfair. I have never been an OW but she was NOT the one married. The OP was as is married and broke his vows.
tinkerbell16 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 I have read through all the replies and all ring true and something I already know. If I had a friend in the same situation I would offer exactly the same advice and if I was a friend of the OW i would tell her to run a million miles from the MM and not look back. It is correct in that its like an addiction and maybe Im still in the denial stage and trying to justify my actions which to outsiders dont seem logical. I find myself playing these'games' which I cant seem to stop. Yesterday I sent the OW a few texts just normal conversation and she would only reply with answer without continuing the conversation. I fully understand she is trying NC but i find myself getting frustrated when I know I shouldnt. Maybe as pointed out it is ego of feeling rejected. Well my wife and I havent really been intimate and although she has tried initiating it i just tell her im tired. She senses something is wrong as she says we are more like housemate. I know what i have to do and its wrong the A but cant help myself. I also have this saviour complex from childhood where my mother was mentally ill for many years. You can help yourself. It is called being a responsible adult who stands by his commitments (marriage).
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