Do you think I escaped a potentially abusive relationship? [update 2016-06-16]

[Lovezen_30]

Not the most desirable way to initiate the exclusivity talk, but I don't see it as a huge deal.

 

 

 

I don't know what this gesture was about, but I've certainly put my hand around my girlfriend's neck in an affectionate way... around the back, not front. Did he grab you around the front of the neck? And did it seem like a choking gesture?

 

 

 

I think it's crossing a boundary to imply that you should get a tattoo because he likes them. But if you were talking about it and indicated that you may want one then encouraging you might be nothing more than him being supportive.

 

 

 

I participated in your previous thread. I suspect that this was more a case of you having some very specific expectations and interpreting him being less available than you'd like to be a serious incompatibility. And it might indeed have been that. But it's also possible that a guy who works 12 hour days and is in grad school at the same time is truly a busy guy.

 

It's not written in the official dating handbook that he is obligated to put your needs and preferences before his own. But people usually do try to meet expectations and meet each other's needs when beginning a new relationship. I don't know that how he was acting was wrong, but I do know that you felt something wasn't right. And yes, less than once a week is pretty scant contact for most people, I think.

 

I honestly can't tell if something really is not right, or if you're working very hard to interpret things that way. But if your feeling and conclusion is that something isn't right about this guy... that he's not dating the way you'd like, then it's your call.

 

Abusive? No evidence of it that I can see. Abusive people are more likely to start out with being verbally abusive than violent gestures. I can't tell by the brief descriptions if he was making threatening gestures or just being playful.

 

It does seem that you are looking for reasons to break things off. You don't really need a reason. You can do it just because you want to and it's perfectly legitimate. Paying attention to your instincts is probably best. Unless this is all about you being hyper-vigilant, in which case you could be passing up a good one.

 

He grabbed around the throat. In terms of the tattoo comment, I had just finished saying I had no intention of getting one, when he volunteered his preference and suggested I get one.

 

I liked the guy. I certainly wasn't looking for reasons to break it off. He was truly busy with work - but he also was quite transparent about when he was free. He spent all his free time with friends (yes, friends are important...) but in doing so postponed plans with me several times - by the time we went on our next date, it would have been 3 weeks! I asked him out & he told me he would need to check about his other plans first - then chose the other plans and postponed with me again. Do you think this was acceptable?

 

And when I did break it off? He simply accepted it and when I cited reasons why ie. Because he wasn't making plans with me, I felt he wasn't interested - he didn't try to counterpoint this/tell me he liked me and I have not heard from him since. If you liked a girl, surely you would counterpoint the fact she feels like this way?

 

With the kick thing, it came out of nowhere and he made a reference to violence/also referred to what happened earlier with my neck. Joke or no, when you say something like that early on, alarm bells are ringing.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Lovezen_30

[salparadise]

He grabbed around the throat. In terms of the tattoo comment, I had just finished saying I had no intention of getting one, when he volunteered his preference and suggested I get one.

 

It's just a comment. If he were actually trying to push you to get tattoo'd when you don't want to, that would be quite different. Particularly in light of the tenuous, short-term nature of this fling.

 

I liked the guy. I certainly wasn't looking for reasons to break it off. He was truly busy with work - but he also was quite transparent about when he was free. He spent all his free time with friends (yes, friends are important...) but in doing so postponed plans with me several times - by the time we went on our next date, it would have been 3 weeks! I asked him out & he told me he would need to check about his other plans first - then chose the other plans and postponed with me again. Do you think this was acceptable? Originally, he told me he wants to make plans weekly-10days, but his actions were consistently showing otherwise.

 

Acceptable? Not to you, apparently. Someone else might be perfectly fine with the same thing that makes you feel disrespected, or whatever word you'd use to describe the infrequent availability.

 

With the kick thing, it came out of nowhere and he made a reference to violence/also referred to what happened earlier with my neck. Joke or no, when you say something like that early on, alarm bells are ringing.

 

I don't know what to make of the kick-choke stuff. It seems off to me, perhaps more immature than dangerous. If it seems off to you I get it, but there is no cause to label him an abuser or potential abuser.

 

This is what I'm talking about when I say you're looking or reasons. I suggest sticking with what's factual rather than employing imagination to extrapolate and magnify, and this is particularly true with regard to serious allegations.

 

Overall I think the two of you aren't a good match for a serious relationship because the guy is quite independent and aloof, while you seem to have specific expectations about how a guy is "suppose" to pursue and prove his worthiness. Chances are that he is not serious, but likes having you available for occasional dating and sex. I think you are conflicted because he's good looking and shtups like a champ but is not completely captivated by your feminine wiles.

 

I do think it odd that he wants to lock you down but only see you at three-week intervals. All you need to do is say "this isn't working for me––not going to remain available as his occasional phukk-buddy." Unless you're willing to take advantage of his bedroom skills in the same way. But that's not where you are. You want a guy who is totally enamored and pursues like a blood hound locked on the scent. So my suggestion is to quit feeling like you have to identify a basket of faults to cut him off if that's what you've decided to do. Just say no and be done with it. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

[Lovezen_30]

Overall I think the two of you aren't a good match for a serious relationship because the guy is quite independent and aloof, while you seem to have specific expectations about how a guy is "suppose" to pursue and prove his worthiness. Chances are that he is not serious, but likes having you available for occasional dating and sex. I think you are conflicted because he's good looking and shtups like a champ but is not completely captivated by your feminine wiles.

 

I do think it odd that he wants to lock you down but only see you at three-week intervals. All you need to do is say "this isn't working for me––not going to remain available as his occasional phukk-buddy." Unless you're willing to take advantage of his bedroom skills in the same way. But that's not where you are. You want a guy who is totally enamored and pursues like a blood hound locked on the scent. So my suggestion is to quit feeling like you have to identify a basket of faults to cut him off if that's what you've decided to do. Just say no and be done with it. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

I am also independent - in fact, when my ex boyfriend broke up with me he cited my independence as a reason. The fact I am like this is probably part of the reason this worked with the guy at all.

 

I don't need a guy to come after me like a blood hound - but I do need him to show interest. There is nothing more precious than a person's time - so if you're not giving the person you're meant to be dating a grain of your time? How is that going to make them feel?

 

I take break ups seriously, I would never just be 'done' with a person without having legitimate reasons. Ultimately, I believe you are right that he wanted sex and occasional companionship. The mistake he made - when I asked him outright what he wanted (was it sex? dates? both?) and that he could just be honest, he skipped, hopped and avoided the Q at all costs. If he had been honest and told me that is what he wanted? Maybe I would have said yes, who knows!

 

But the fact he wanted to be exclusive and call every day without moving things forward, made me feel confused. I miss him though and I still feel awfully blue. We could be vulnerable with each other emotionally & it meant something to me that he could open up like that. It's tough to let go of something that is almost-right, but still just feels a little off.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Lovezen_30

[salparadise]

I am also independent - in fact, when my ex boyfriend broke up with me he cited my independence as a reason. The fact I am like this is probably part of the reason this worked with the guy at all.

 

I have noticed that. Except I wonder if avoidant isn't a better word. I think that your cataloging of a myriad of comments and behaviors is part of a strategy. You'd prefer that he exist in the middle space... not too distant, not too close. Correct?

 

It's tough to let go of something that is almost-right, but still just feels a little off.

 

This is true. People who've been around the block a few times come to accept, though, that it is what it is. You can negotiate small stuff, but not the fundamentals. You can never get people to be who you wish they'd be; you can only accept what is (or not). And when you choose to accept you have to let go of the notion that they're a work in progress. Otherwise you'll both be miserable until it disintegrates.

Edited May 24, 2016 by salparadise

[Lovezen_30]

I have noticed that. Except I wonder if avoidant isn't a better word. I think that your cataloging of a myriad of comments and behaviors is part of a strategy. You'd prefer that he exist in the middle space... not too distant, not too close. Correct?

 

 

 

This is true. People who've been around the block a few times come to accept, though, that it is what it is. You can negotiate small stuff, but not the fundamentals. You can never get people to be who you wish they'd be; you can only accept what is (or not). And when you choose to accept you have to let go of the notion that they're a work in progress. Otherwise you'll both be miserable until it disintegrates.

 

Avoidant? I don't know much about what that means. What I do know is that at the beginning, I was willing to throw myself in whole-heartedly. To open myself up to exploring the full potential with this guy. I believe that I only really pushed him into that space when I began to suspect his feelings were not what I hoped they might be...to avoid getting hurt.

 

My ex-bf broke up with me (regretting it a week later), saying because I was so independent he expected me to leave him anyway. This was during a period when I spent the majority of my free time with him, every week. So, people really do have different interpretations of what "independent" means!

[O'Malley]

My first instinct when the light physical stuff happened was "go home, go home right now" but I didn't.

 

I think that even more independent women and men can be coerced into accepting physical and verbal behavior that they either won't or can't walk away from in the moment. Your safest course to to stay out of contact with him and to keep your boundaries strong.

 

He made a choice - a deliberate, casually comfortable decision - to put his hand around your throat. It could be described as both immature and dangerous behavior, which aren't mutually exclusive. Imagine a frustrated parent placing their hand around a child's throat, or a guy putting his hand on the throat of another man during a petty disagreement: none of these scenarios would, or should, be trivialized as harmless, normal reactions to irritation or conflict.

[Lovezen_30]

I think that even more independent women and men can be coerced into accepting physical and verbal behavior that they either won't or can't walk away from in the moment. Your safest course to to stay out of contact with him and to keep your boundaries strong.

 

He made a choice - a deliberate, casually comfortable decision - to put his hand around your throat. It could be described as both immature and dangerous behavior, which aren't mutually exclusive. Imagine a frustrated parent placing their hand around a child's throat, or a guy putting his hand on the throat of another man during a petty disagreement: none of these scenarios would, or should, be trivialized as harmless, normal reactions to irritation or conflict.

 

Thanks for your reply, O'Malley.

 

Something I forgot to add. Later, in private, I placed my hand across the front of his neck in clear reference to the earlier scenario, asking 'doesn't this bother YOU?'. He didn't flinch and said no, not at all. At the end of the day, I don't want to be with someone who pretends to kick me or keeps referencing violence in relation to me. At the early stages especially it just makes you go WTF. Hardly makes you feel special or even liked...

Edited May 24, 2016 by Lovezen_30

[bathtub-row]

You can use logic with guys like that all day long and it'll get you nowhere. Once you understand abuse, you understand that, forever and always, they are broken and unfixable.

[jen1447]

Lovezen, PLEASE don't take onboard any casual advice that tells you to disregard your intuition. That's a slippery slope that many abused women or soon-to-be-abused women head down and never really come back up from, as I think you know. You're intuition's a powerful tool, so use it. And never confuse it with paranoia unless you have an actual history of paranoia issues.

 

None of us really know what's going on with this guy, and even you only know part of what makes him tick most likely, so there are no certainties involved but when are there ever? Look at it this way - if you're wrong about him, the worst thing that will have happened is you'll have missed an opportunity. If you're right and you ignored that, the worst thing that could happen is you sign up for a miserable lifetime of abuse, fear, uncertainty and unhappiness. That's a no-brainer decision to me if you're seeing red flags.

 

You've made the right call.

[Lovezen_30]

Posted my story in 'Ghosting' a few threads down.

 

Seeing each other for just under 3 months, now I haven't heard from him in 4 days, so it seems he is ghosting.

 

Our last date: he made a romantic meal, created the ambience & was very attentive to me. Actually I felt he was more caring & tender towards me than he had ever been. He opened up a lot & said he was feeling pressure about his professional future (his job contract runs out soon). The next day, he phoned me from the airport before he went to visit his family abroad. In the meantime, I picked up a small birthday gift that he had wanted ever since we met.

 

When he got back, everything changed. He was very distant, not planning dates & would barely speak to me. I asked him if his feelings had changed & he denied wanting to stop dating, but seemed confused. He told me it was so thoughtful that I had bought him a birthday gift. I asked to see him this week and he ignored the message

 

At first I was REALLY angry that he couldn't offer the basic respect of telling me what was going. Maybe I'll never know. But, I have also realised that although we were very good at some relationship type things, we didn't have what it takes for the long haul. Can I send him this last gift that was meant for him or will it seem like I'm rewarding the ghost?

[hippychick3]

You would be rewarding the ghost and losing your dignity.

 

Do not send the gift.

[Lovezen_30]

You would be rewarding the ghost and losing your dignity.

 

Do not send the gift.

 

How would I be losing my dignity?

[hippychick3]

How would I be losing my dignity?

 

By sending him the message that it's perfectly fine to treat you that way...that you'll even send a gift. No man would respect a woman who doesn't respect herself.

[Lovezen_30]

By sending him the message that it's perfectly fine to treat you that way...that you'll even send a gift. No man would respect a woman who doesn't respect herself.

 

I always respected myself without any qualms until I met this guy

 

I have literally felt like I'm going crazy for half the time we've been seeing each other. The worst part is, when I told him it was hurtful for him to ignore me, he said 'Sorry, my internet has been playing up...so I'm not ignoring you.' And has ignored me since then.

 

Why not just call it off?

[hippychick3]

Most men don't want to deal with the confrontation of ending things. They would prefer to take the easy way out and do a fade away. You have to be the one to take your power back and decide that his behavior is NOT acceptable to you by moving on and going NC. It hurts and sucks but we can't convince someone else to want us.

[Lovezen_30]

Most men don't want to deal with the confrontation of ending things. They would prefer to take the easy way out and do a fade away. You have to be the one to take your power back and decide that his behavior is NOT acceptable to you by moving on and going NC. It hurts and sucks but we can't convince someone else to want us.

 

The crazy thing is..I even told him I'm not angry/upset, I would just like an answer so I can move on to date other people if he's not feeling it any longer. EVEN when I said that, he still denied wanting to stop dating. What gives?!

 

Actually, I feel a bit on edge because it has only been 4 days & I'm still left wondering if he'll be back.

 

Thanks for talking me off the ledge though, hippychick. My emotions are all over the place. I don't know what I'll do with the gift...but I won't send it.

[Lady Hamilton]

I'm not sure 4 days of no contact during a 3 month casual relationship yet qualifies as "ghosting." I'd give it a bit more time to see what's going on. Realistically speaking, 4 days isn't all that long to not have contact with a guy you've been dating 3 months.

[elaine567]

Seems he has done a great job of messing with your head, why are you still even with this guy after all those red flags?

[Lady Hamilton]

During my reply, the thread on ghosting moved to this thread.

 

 

I honestly don't get the progression of this relationship. Less than a month ago you want to dump him and think he's an abuser, but then you have a birthday present and think 4 days of no contact means he's ghosting you.

 

 

I'm not sure that those are signs of abuse in the OP, but frankly, you guys aren't good for each other... You questioning why you've been ghosted after only 4 days of not hearing for him and being affronted about it roughly 3 weeks after you complained you dumped him and he wouldn't accept it... It's not healthy.

[Lovezen_30]

I'm not sure 4 days of no contact during a 3 month casual relationship yet qualifies as "ghosting." I'd give it a bit more time to see what's going on. Realistically speaking, 4 days isn't all that long to not have contact with a guy you've been dating 3 months.

 

True, except he usually contacts me daily. The change was abrupt. Also, I asked to see him yesterday or today, so the fact he has ignored that speaks volumes imo.

 

You and elaine567 are right...I don't know why I edited over his red flags. I suppose because I didn't want them to exist. I thought an amazing sexual, intellectual and what appeared to be a developing emotional connection, could cancel the cr*p out. Also, I was hopeful when he said he took responsibility for what had went wrong and wanted to be more attentive.

 

I'm booking an appointment with a therapist tomorrow. Basically, I made a healthy choice for myself by breaking things off. When I went back to him, I was willing to relinquish all control to appease him. This is not me!!

Edited June 17, 2016 by Lovezen_30

[Lovezen_30]

Seems he has done a great job of messing with your head, why are you still even with this guy after all those red flags?

 

I suppose it's like being contained inside a comfortable, warm cocoon. And the red flags show up suddenly, and intermittently (but mostly you are cosy inside the cocoon). At the start he came on strong & I felt bonded to him far quicker than I should have.

 

I have to say it also may be because he is the most 'alpha' guy I have met. Objectively, I can recognise that an over-confident, controlling guy is no good. But because I am a powerful woman in my day to day life, I think I enjoyed meeting someone that sort of took the pressure off me in that way.

[bathtub-row]

I hope you have no intentions of giving him that gift or even acknowledging his birthday. He is deliberately ignoring you and you should never be ok with that. I would recommend returning the gift and getting your money back, and then ignore this idiot from this point on. Good men don't make up idiotic excuses about the Internet not working as an excuse not to respond to you. I mean how lame can he get??

[Lovezen_30]

I hope you have no intentions of giving him that gift or even acknowledging his birthday. He is deliberately ignoring you and you should never be ok with that. I would recommend returning the gift and getting your money back, and then ignore this idiot from this point on. Good men don't make up idiotic excuses about the Internet not working as an excuse not to respond to you. I mean how lame can he get??

 

 

I have taken action with the gift, so it is out of my house now! I've also come to my senses somewhat. Over the last couple of days a fog has started to lift and I have recalled the strong woman I am. I had felt I was losing my sense of self - not worth losing for any man.

 

It has taken me a week or so to mourn the end of this. Even though it was only a few months, you have a dream or expectation at the beginnings of something. It was the most hopeful I had felt about a guy in years, until the cracks began to show.

 

Absolutely agree. Extremely lame - the last time I had a guy pull an excuse like that on me, I was 13! Well...years later, we gave a proper relationship a try and he never got better. Little lies became big ones.

 

I have joined a new exercise class, am starting therapy and starting to feel good about the future again. I still sort of miss the guy I thought he was...but I'll get through it eventually.

[Cg_863]

This person sounds like a typical narcissistic man, you have definietly escaped a whole lot of heart ache and mental torture exiting early, people who are narcissistic are abusive, controlling and down right rotten to the core!!! You do not want to be held in their grip.. Look this up, knowledge is power in this case... I wish someone had of warned me, i am still trying to escape... they are masters of manipulation, they will shower you with charm, love, and offer you your tailored dreams on a plate, this is all part of their act, dont be fooled.. they are abusers in disguise

[spiderowl]

The crazy thing is..I even told him I'm not angry/upset, I would just like an answer so I can move on to date other people if he's not feeling it any longer. EVEN when I said that, he still denied wanting to stop dating. What gives?!

 

Actually, I feel a bit on edge because it has only been 4 days & I'm still left wondering if he'll be back.

 

Thanks for talking me off the ledge though, hippychick. My emotions are all over the place. I don't know what I'll do with the gift...but I won't send it.

 

You need to consider how you are feeling - you have mentioned anxious, on edge, worried, going crazy. This is the way this guy is making you feel. Unless you want to carry on feeling this tumult of unhappy emotions, you should end this relationship yourself. You have the power to do so. If you ask him, he'll just hang on and not decide anything. Trust your feelings: they are telling you what this guy is doing to you.