Do you ever have the talk about domestic violence?

[ChattyKat]

I am currently dating a man that I see a long term future with. When is it a good time to bring up the subject of domestic violence? To get a feel of his opinion how women deserves to be treated? If him or any man ever lay a hand on me, he'd be gone in a New York Minute

[Woggle]

I would bring it up. If you are planning a future with him then you should be able to talk about anything. Just don't do it in a way that comes across as attacking him or attacking men in general.

[TunaCat]

It's one of my dealbreakers, so I would bring it up VERY early on.

[bathtub-row]

My thinking on this is why do you need to state the obvious? If he's not abusive, then I doubt he needs to be informed of what you'd do if it ever came up. I'm sure he already knows. If he is abusive, he'll just lie and agree with you. I guess there's nothing wrong with making your stance clear on this issue but I'm not sure why it's some big discussion.

[jen1447]

Agree w/BTR ....while I admire your 0 tolerance policy ChattyKat, I don't think it needs to be gotten into w/out some reason, and if you have some reason (meaning suspicion, uncertainty based on earlier behavior, etc.) that's reason enough to eject from the R. It's pointless to try to cajole an abuser or potential abuser into not abusing bc I think that tendency is long and deeply ingrained in their psyches.

 

I suppose it'd be fair enough to give fair warning for if someone ever does a 180 and changes their ways but I think that's bscly stating the obvious.

[RecentChange]

Yeah I agree with Jen.

 

When I saw the title, I thought this was regarding a parent / child conversation. Like when I was young, and my parents made it very clear that a man was to NEVER lay a hand on me out of anger, and that violence had no place in a relationship.

 

I have never, ever had to "have the talk" with a romantic interest. I would put it up there with having a talk that murder is wrong.... Well of course it is. And I would hope my judgement of character is strong enough not to pick a murder as a partner.

 

You aren't going to stop an abuser by telling them it's not something you tolerate, and I find it hard to believe many abusers would say "well sometimes women need domestic violence".

[mrldii]

It's one of my non-negotiables, so it comes up pretty early in *that*/*those* conversation/s where we begin discussing exclusivity; the "a man better never lay a hand on me in anger" gets mentioned along with the:

 

*don't be drug (including alcohol) addict;

*don't be perpetually unemployed/unemployable/without a means of financially supporting yourself;

*don't think you're going to cheat and get a free pass; if you do cheat, make sure you're already on your way out, 'cuz ya will be gone.

[SammySammy]

It's a must have conversation as far as I'm concerned. It's one of the things that can end the relationship, so we might as well be clear about it.

 

Especially when some feel that women hitting men is excusable, but men should never under any circumstances hit a woman.

 

I don't see the benefit of assuming we don't have to talk about that subject when people may not agree. I'd rather put everything on the table and be clear about that matter early on.

[elaine567]

A coworker of mine had a fairly short relationship with an abusive man, so not wanting to repeat the experience, she brought up the subject of abuse with her new bf under the guise of talking about someone else. He said he would kill himself if he ever hit a woman, as his father hit his mother and he thought it was completely and utterly wrong - he would never hit a woman.

She was a bit concerned because of the history, but he was so convincing she gave him the benefit of the doubt. Of course "son of an abuser" doesn't sound great, but her reasoning was that because he was so vehemently opposed and having seen the damage caused up close, he was a safer bet.

BUT after a few years he became "controlling" and he started hitting my friend. It turned out he actually blamed his mother for tolerating the abuse and not taking the kids including himself out of the situation. His view of women was thus skewed, his anger surfaced and he became the abuser his father was...

So having "the talk" was in fact useless in that case.

 

Btw he didn't kill himself...

[mrldii]

...So having "the talk" was in fact useless in that case...

 

 

Agreed. Having "the talk" is absolutely useless; ya gotta "walk the walk", too. I bring these things up so there's no misunderstanding up front that I'm going to "forgive" the transgression, "let it slide", or adopt a "well, maybe it's just this once"

 

on any of my non-negotiables, which remain non-negotiables throughout the entire relationship, no matter how many years/children/memories are shared between us.

 

 

 

Sorry your friend went through that.

[basil67]

I agree that the talk is useless. If he's a good man, he will agree with you. If he's a bad man, he will lie.

[GemmaUK]

It's a conversation I now have - well more of a debate really. I see it s a vital conversation to have.

 

I went on a couple of dates with someone a few months back and had a convo about this subject and abusive traits.

His views on the abusive traits was enough for me never to see him again.

 

It's all very well saying a bad man will lie but an abuser often has no comprehension that his views/action are out o whack with normal behaviour.

[carhill]

I guess things are different now. About the only related content my exW and I talked about was her rape some 20 years before I met her and some of the effects, mainly triggers for me to watch for, like particular actions during sex or saying particular words. Other than that, it was a non-issue. I couldn't imagine such acts as DV with my wife, regardless of the emotions of the moment. Perhaps she got that and didn't feel it necessary to talk about, IDK.

[ChattyKat]

Great advice everyone! The only thing that bugs me about him is he is overly sarcastic and occasionally refers women as a b****

[Toodaloo]

Great advice everyone! The only thing that bugs me about him is he is overly sarcastic and occasionally refers women as a b****

 

There is your red flag. He has a low opinion of women.

 

As for domestic violence its imperative to bring it up asap.

 

MEN READ THAT TOO PLEASE!

 

1 in 5 men have now suffered domestic abuse at some point. It is NOT just a female problem.

 

It was brought up on date 2 with my current beau. He brought the subject up.

[Mrin]

Ok, as a guy here are a few thoughts:

 

1. The talk is useless in determining whether or not the man is an abuser - I won't beat a dead horse on this (pun intended) but the posters above did a good job explaining why.

 

2. The talk isn't completely pointless. It can still serve several purposes. The first is to have a conversation about how you want to resolve differences in a relationship. What triggers you? What triggers him? How do you "fight well". The second is that it allows you (and him) to establish really clear boundaries and tolerances. Physical abuse is easy: if a man ever laid a hand on me he's gone. No second chances. But you can go further such as no name calling. Ever. And make a reciprocal commitment to him on both fronts.

 

3. As always though, judge a man by his actions not by his words. Words are cheap. Actions are not. Trust your gut and instincts about this.

[blueskyday]

The best thing to do is to figure out what his views are on women. You can tell this by having conversations with him and listening for statements that objectify or demonize women.

 

For instance, if he calls women [names], this is a huge red flag. If he talks about the concept of " females" and doesn't call women women then that is another red flag. If he complains about his past relationships and it's always the woman's fault that they broke up, here's another red flag. If he jokes about women in a Demeaning Way, Yep, another red flag.

 

Basically you are looking for clues that show he has a mindset that is dominated by ideas of power and control and entitlement.

 

I would suggest that you bring up provocative topics and even out right go against something that he says. Then watch how he reacts. If he's furious that you disagree with him or that you're not available when he wants to see you , then you've got your answer that his mindset set is about power and control.

 

The most important thing is to watch for a lack of empathy in situations where you would be compassionate. If he gets mad instead of compassionate and responsive to your feelings, then again you have your answer.

 

Does he break the law or think he is above the rules? That's entitletment. The idea of fairness, social responsibity, or relationship reciprocity won't even cross his mind.

 

So I wouldn't worry about overt discussions about domestic violence. Abusers are notorious liars, and will say whatever they have to say to make you think that they are good guys.

 

But they aren't adept at hiding their belief system for very long if you're watching out for it.

Edited May 10, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[jen1447]

It's a conversation I now have - well more of a debate really. I see it s a vital conversation to have.

 

I went on a couple of dates with someone a few months back and had a convo about this subject and abusive traits.

His views on the abusive traits was enough for me never to see him again.

 

It's all very well saying a bad man will lie but an abuser often has no comprehension that his views/action are out o whack with normal behaviour.

 

Some very good points above as well as Gemma's - use the talk as a screening tool rather than a rules discussion.

[Arieswoman]

ChattyKat,

 

The only thing that bugs me about him is he is overly sarcastic and occasionally refers women as a b****

 

Oh dear, I'm afraid that this doesn't sound too good.

 

However, don't bail just yet. Keep you eyes and ears open for any other clues as to his attitude towards women.

 

And for goodness sake don't sleep with him or move in with him.

 

Stay safe.

 

Good luck x

[ChattyKat]

ChattyKat,

 

Oh dear, I'm afraid that this doesn't sound too good.

 

However, don't bail just yet. Keep you eyes and ears open for any other clues as to his attitude towards women.

 

And for goodness sake don't sleep with him or move in with him.

 

Stay safe.

 

Good luck x

 

It hasn't got that far yet. He doesn't believe in premartial sex and still is a virgin in his 40's.....I lost mine years ago in a non-committed relationship. He believes a woman needs to "submit" in marriage. It just weird that he calls himself a Christian and calls women the B word. He has called me selfish 2 times told him whatever.

[Toodaloo]

It hasn't got that far yet. He doesn't believe in premartial sex and still is a virgin in his 40's.....I lost mine years ago in a non-committed relationship. He believes a woman needs to "submit" in marriage. It just weird that he calls himself a Christian and calls women the B word. He has called me selfish 2 times told him whatever.

 

Oh dear Lord above just no.

 

Quit thinking about this one and send him on his way.

 

Please do not keep trying or hoping that he is some proverbial nice guy. He isn't he is a bigoted idiot in sheeps clothing.

 

You two have very different fundamental beliefs. This is not going to last. Your choice how much time and emotion you waste on it. Be warned. This guy will be good at making you feel like poop - so get out now.

[Mrin]

It hasn't got that far yet. He doesn't believe in premartial sex and still is a virgin in his 40's.....I lost mine years ago in a non-committed relationship. He believes a woman needs to "submit" in marriage. It just weird that he calls himself a Christian and calls women the B word. He has called me selfish 2 times told him whatever.

 

Oh dear. I'd write more but I am having trouble seeing the screen with all of these red flags in the way.

[burnt]

I am a bit curious about why you are concerned about this particular subject. There are so many issues that people bring up. Do you (or someone close to you) have any history involving domestic violence?

 

But since you asked, domestic violence isn't just limited to "laying a hand on someone". There are many many more deadlier and more damaging types of domestic violence in which the victim doesn't even know he/she is being abused--it's the covert psychological kinds.

 

So, if for whatever reason, you have brought up this subject, may I suggest that YOU read up as much as you can so that you can detect the EARLY signs of an abuser.

 

There's no need to have a conversation about this with your partner--you just need to be able to detect the traits and then

RUN

fast.

in the other direction.

 

And on a final note:

when someone gets/stays in a relationship with an abuser, there's usually some sort of emotional unbalance in the very abused person that has not been addressed/resolved--which is much more relevant to focus on.

[burnt]

Add on…

I didn't read the later posts.

 

RUN.

just run.

[Toodaloo]

Oh dear. I'd write more but I am having trouble seeing the screen with all of these red flags in the way.

 

I think this is more than red flags - its more big flashing neon signs with claxons going off every 30 seconds...