wmacbride Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 I'm not a man, so this is just base don my observations. I think many men cheat because they feel like they are missing "something" in their lives , but may not really know what that something is. at least in western culture, there is often a belief that we can get that something from another person, but really, we can't. it has to come form within oursleves. I'm a big believer that ennui has some far reaching effects. Is a person bored and dissatisfied with their spouse, or are they bored and dissatisfied with their life? 3
Arieswoman Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 There is a very astute post #11 9th April 2015 by Oldshirt that sums this all up .. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/523620-affairing-down 1
stilltrying16 Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) So absolutely agree with you. Thinking black and white--labeling people as "good" or "bad" guys is easy, but trying to look deeper into the very complex human mind is not. Human minds and human behaviors are the most complex things, and yet, I find it sad but funny, whenever someone draws these sweeping generalized "truth" statements--as if they have figured out the secrets of the human mind. At the risk of sounding like I'm generalizing, I add a few thoughts… In many cases, the marriages that end in separation/divorce are the relatively "easy" ones--meaning, they are SO bad and dysfunctional that it becomes clear to both/one party that there's no hope left to salvage the marriage. In a way, that sort of a hopeless case is actually a blessing--because one/both partner can call it quits and at least hope for a new direction. The marriage being totally dead makes it relatively easier to let go and move on. But it's a HORRIBLE marriage when things aren't working out "quiet" right, but aren't completely hopeless either. In many of the marriages with infidelity, there is "something" missing…something subtle, something that grows like a cancer underneath the surface or something one/both partners fail to address or fix. Yet, the relationship is founded on history and great bonding. So, now you have this relationship that's just alive, breathing, but feels like a relationship in a hospice in a vegetative state. That is a horrible state, you can neither call the marriage dead, nor can you call it fully alive to draw strength from it. And out of that confusion, if one is to keep living in a state of emotionally disconnected manner for long enough, guess what? Sooner or later, out of necessity, out of loneliness, and desperation, one seeks out a reckless way to feel resuscitated, brought back to feeling alive again. And the sad thing is, often (not all) cases the cheater is actually trying to revive the MARRIAGE, more than him/herself. So, as disturbing as it may sound what the cheater is doing subconsciously is saying to the BS: "I cheated on you, because I love you". That's a really interesting perspective, burnt. I didn't think of it that way before....it does make some sense that people could rationalize it like that. Is it a bit like the 80-20 theory? Which basically goes "my marriage satisfies 80% of my needs, and I don't want to lose that, so I'll get the remaining 20% from somewhere else... so I'll get to keep it all. I read about it on another infidelity site. Not sure it's similar to the reasoning you described. I can see someone reasoning that way....and I agree that it's a "reckless" solution but one that could seem quite reasonable to the cheater. Subconsciously. hmmmm so I'm still mulling this over. I wonder if these cheaters stop to ask themselves if the BS is getting their 100%- and whether the 20% that's missing will return if the cheater does some work on him/herself and not look for outside validation all the time? I was the BGF many many years ago...i think I would have slugged (metaphorically speaking) my cheating XBF if he'd tried to rationalize what he did as a favor to our relationship! I also wonder that if I'd thought he was trying to save our relationship, it would have shattered my self-esteem any less than it did then. It really hasn't been an issue for so long. I don't know why I started obsessing over it again after decades! Actually I do know; it's some of the dumbsh#t shows I watch. I'm embarrassed to say which ones. So I've seen a lot of rationalizations on tv and IRL but never this....and yet, it seems so so plausible that people would think that way. Knowing they'd be shot down if they actually revealed it. It's very interesting....you're certainly making me think! How about you....do you think it helps us see more nuances in the basic situation? Edited April 21, 2016 by stilltrying16 2
dichotomy Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 MM here - and I never cheated, but I have considered it several times in the past, due to being cheated on, lied to, and mainly due to a low sex marriage. I was even advised by one of my therapists to go get some NSA sex elsewhere. If sex was just sex -fun and casual - and not affection and love and trust to me....I probably would have sought it out and felt better. But it just who I am - and sometimes that makes me mad... 3
thefooloftheyear Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) In many cases it's like a lot of things in this life.....It boils down to money...Simple as that.... Women will generally dismiss this notion, but that's because they really don;t operate the same way men do, and in most cases can't really relate...Yes, that's where compartmentalization and pragmatism(both typically male traits)comes into play.... TFY Edited April 21, 2016 by thefooloftheyear
Phoenician Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Why men cheat ? there is no standard answer ; below applies to both gender with one difference stated at the end . -they could be serial cheaters ; -or they are immature , -or sexually deprived -or incompatible with partner . A man cheating after years and years of a stable marriage cheats for the same reason as of a serial cheater but different circumstances and aims . when rejected they are also vulnerable to emotional affair as well as physical . emotional affairs are more destructive even , because they get the illusion that the grass is greener at the other side . I have been in one incidence of emotional affair that was very close to become physical after 18 years in an almost sexless marriage . opportunity is just the trigger . The only difference between man and women is that a man expresses usually his emotions physically ; the language of love is physical . while majority of women expresses their love first emotionally then physically . 1
Liam1 Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 And the sad thing is, often (not all) cases the cheater is actually trying to revive the MARRIAGE, more than him/herself. So, as disturbing as it may sound what the cheater is doing subconsciously is saying to the BS: "I cheated on you, because I love you". Brilliant point, Burnt, I don't know how I missed this post. One small change. Probably semantical. I would never have thought or said to my wife that I cheated on her because "I love you." Although I did have an affair rather than divorcing her because I did love her. But, I would say, "I did not divorce you because I love you. But of course that's just semantics. Believe me, in my situation, divorce would have been the easy road, and I thought of it many times over the ten years she refused counseling to address marital issuses. Still, if I had said it the other way, my wife would have most likely bonked me on the bean with the proverbial rolling pin. Nevertheless, our infidelity counselor has said words similar to yours at our sessions, and my wife agrees that she should have agreed to counseling and that refusing put us BOTH in a no win situation. In my situation, the affair was inevitable, unless I developed erectile dysfunction. I was getting hit on all the time, and my wife was refusing sex and counseling. And, after ten years I found what I thought was a solution. In the end, too, it was a solution, it saved my marriage. However, if my wife had chosen divorce, I would have let her go amicably. In retrospect I would have preferred counseling, but that was not an option I had control over. In many of the marriages with infidelity, there is "something" missing…something subtle, something that grows like a cancer underneath the surface or something one/both partners fail to address or fix. Yet, the relationship is founded on history and great bonding. So, now you have this relationship that's just alive, breathing, but feels like a relationship in a hospice in a vegetative state. That is a horrible state, you can neither call the marriage dead, nor can you call it fully alive to draw strength from it.Again, so well stated. Yes. It is a horrible state for a marriage to be and a horrible no win place for a spouse to be. So absolutely agree with you. Thinking black and white--labeling people as "good" or "bad" guys is easy, but trying to look deeper into the very complex human mind is not. Human minds and human behaviors are the most complex things, and yet, I find it sad but funny, whenever someone draws these sweeping generalized "truth" statements--as if they have figured out the secrets of the human mind. At the risk of sounding like I'm generalizing, I add a few thoughts… In many cases, the marriages that end in separation/divorce are the relatively "easy" ones--meaning, they are SO bad and dysfunctional that it becomes clear to both/one party that there's no hope left to salvage the marriage. In a way, that sort of a hopeless case is actually a blessing--because one/both partner can call it quits and at least hope for a new direction. The marriage being totally dead makes it relatively easier to let go and move on. But it's a HORRIBLE marriage when things aren't working out "quiet" right, but aren't completely hopeless either. In many of the marriages with infidelity, there is "something" missing…something subtle, something that grows like a cancer underneath the surface or something one/both partners fail to address or fix. Yet, the relationship is founded on history and great bonding. So, now you have this relationship that's just alive, breathing, but feels like a relationship in a hospice in a vegetative state. That is a horrible state, you can neither call the marriage dead, nor can you call it fully alive to draw strength from it. And out of that confusion, if one is to keep living in a state of emotionally disconnected manner for long enough, guess what? Sooner or later, out of necessity, out of loneliness, and desperation, one seeks out a reckless way to feel resuscitated, brought back to feeling alive again. And the sad thing is, often (not all) cases the cheater is actually trying to revive the MARRIAGE, more than him/herself. So, as disturbing as it may sound what the cheater is doing subconsciously is saying to the BS: "I cheated on you, because I love you".
Phoenician Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 thats true... it seems more common in men than women.. for women its regarding emotions and for men its about sex. As with my personal experiance, there hadnt been anything wrong with the relationship.. until one night he was drunk with a few boys and went to a brothel... i guess he liked the excitement and feeling of it? and perhaps became attached? it really has nothing to do with the women/wife/partner/girlfriend in some cases. its purely a selfish act and inability to control the urge. however it can be destructive to many. its like they want their cake and eat it too!! unbelievable! I just want to say that men by nature are physical in expressing love ; the language of love is a physical act ; that's why majority of men are visually exited while majority of women get exited emotionally. the cave man inside us say I love u , i like you via sex ; this is how we are built; the worst happen when we are also deprived ...or rejected 1
dreamingoftigers Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 That's a really interesting perspective, burnt. I didn't think of it that way before....it does make some sense that people could rationalize it like that. Is it a bit like the 80-20 theory? Which basically goes "my marriage satisfies 80% of my needs, and I don't want to lose that, so I'll get the remaining 20% from somewhere else... so I'll get to keep it all. I read about it on another infidelity site. Not sure it's similar to the reasoning you described. I can see someone reasoning that way....and I agree that it's a "reckless" solution but one that could seem quite reasonable to the cheater. Subconsciously. hmmmm so I'm still mulling this over. I wonder if these cheaters stop to ask themselves if the BS is getting their 100%- and whether the 20% that's missing will return if the cheater does some work on him/herself and not look for outside validation all the time? I was the BGF many many years ago...i think I would have slugged (metaphorically speaking) my cheating XBF if he'd tried to rationalize what he did as a favor to our relationship! I also wonder that if I'd thought he was trying to save our relationship, it would have shattered my self-esteem any less than it did then. It really hasn't been an issue for so long. I don't know why I started obsessing over it again after decades! Actually I do know; it's some of the dumbsh#t shows I watch. I'm embarrassed to say which ones. So I've seen a lot of rationalizations on tv and IRL but never this....and yet, it seems so so plausible that people would think that way. Knowing they'd be shot down if they actually revealed it. It's very interesting....you're certainly making me think! How about you....do you think it helps us see more nuances in the basic situation? I've said this to some OW who hold on forever to their MM. "If he wanted to leave he would. But if he's staying and saying he's unhappy, the. He's cheating to stay IN the marriage." That's right. The cheating is his little escape valve or hidden hobby or romance on the side to feel better. So he can go back home and play husband. 2
dreamingoftigers Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 MM here - and I never cheated, but I have considered it several times in the past, due to being cheated on, lied to, and mainly due to a low sex marriage. I was even advised by one of my therapists to go get some NSA sex elsewhere. If sex was just sex -fun and casual - and not affection and love and trust to me....I probably would have sought it out and felt better. But it just who I am - and sometimes that makes me mad... Same deal mostly, genders reversed. I want a heck of a lot more quantity and quality sexually. (Ugh don't get me started). And I am not the one that cheated. It's very frustrating but I am not willing to blow up my family or role-model particularly crappy behaviour to my kids by cheating as well. Some days the resent gets very thick, other days I am fine.thees always a "reason" or "excuse" though and I am really tired of hearing it all. 2
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