Is it possible...

[renaissancewoman]

Is there anything that still bothers you?

 

The erased texts bother me a great deal. It is a big nagging feeling that continues to eat at me. Like I said, I only have 3 months worth of text records (November, December and January). I only know the frequency with which they texted and whether they were pictures or texts.

 

In those three months, there were 366 texts between the two of them. They got more frequent with each month (82 in November, 103 in December and 181 in January). The January texts he attributes to the fact that she invited our family to her daughter's birthday and they were coordinating because it was to go to a ski place that we had to buy day passes for so he says they were making sure that everyone had tickets.

 

They didn't text every day. The most texts in a day was about 40 (the day before the party). My mind says they were just coordinating on where to meet up once we got there or going through the schedule for the day, but maybe it was more sinister on how they should interact with me there. I don't know.

 

Other than that day, most days were 10 texts or so. Always during the day. After bus stop pick ups or around there. Nothing too alarming. He would say that she would send pics of our daughters playing at the bus stop. Because they would play with her phone and take silly selfies. Which of course I can't confirm since he deleted all the texts.

 

We have a 4-year-old at home. She has 2 kids at home. So I don't think that there is ever a time when they would be alone during the day. She doesn't always pick up or drop off at the bus. She and her husband rotate as she also works so he doesn't necessarily see her every day and now that I take our son in the morning and he only goes to the bus stop in the afternoon, then their contact has significantly lessened. Still, I do wish there was no contact whatsoever, but that's not feasible.

 

These texts are the last things that give me a sense of insecurity. I am thinking of recovering with Dr. Fone, but will need to do it on the down low. While he is open with access to everything, he definitely feels like I should be "over it". He feels he's moved on so I should too.

[renaissancewoman]

Heartwhole, your husband sounds a lot like mine. Constantly will avoid conflict at all costs. I think that is what prompted him to erase the texts because he felt they just added more fuel regardless of whether or not they were innocent and friendly. I don't even know if it was flirtatious but I'm not ruling that out. Either way, it has made me very insecure and while he is trying to diminish it with being loving towards me and focusing on our relationship, I still crave the whole truth. You may be able to tell, I'm pretty analytical. I crave information. The more information I have, the less anxiety I feel because I see the bigger picture that way. When there are bits that are kept from me, I get very anxious and my mind will fill in the gaps, whether or not it is true.

[ShatteredLady]

There's a great piece on the web. It's called 'filling in the puzzle after infidelity letter' or something like that. If you search 'infidelity, puzzle, letter' you should find it. It really spoke to me!

 

Your H was there. He knows the whole picture. You only know certain pieces of the puzzle & it's only natural to fill in the blanks.

 

Every member here comes with their own issues & history. I believed my H about the whole 'just friends' things & felt completely & utterly blindsided when I started to find messages between them. Obviously I'd advise retrieving what you can. Be warned, it can be extremely devastating. I needed to know the whole truth though.

 

How can anyone deal with something & put it behind them when they don't know what they're actually forgiving & forgetting? That's a LOT of mails between 'innocent' friends who ALSO meet in person....

[S2B]

Heartwhole, your husband sounds a lot like mine. Constantly will avoid conflict at all costs. I think that is what prompted him to erase the texts because he felt they just added more fuel regardless of whether or not they were innocent and friendly. I don't even know if it was flirtatious but I'm not ruling that out. Either way, it has made me very insecure and while he is trying to diminish it with being loving towards me and focusing on our relationship, I still crave the whole truth. You may be able to tell, I'm pretty analytical. I crave information. The more information I have, the less anxiety I feel because I see the bigger picture that way. When there are bits that are kept from me, I get very anxious and my mind will fill in the gaps, whether or not it is true.

 

You want his truth? Then start digging.

 

Order the text messages from the phone provider. Then you can see what he needed to erase.

[Neil711]

I know:

1. It started sometime after school began. We both have kindergarteners and that's the only way we even met their family.

2. They had only gone to the park 2-3 times in that time, per the kids.

3. She invited them to see reindeer in December. That day he texted me that he took the kids there, but never mentioned that it was with her and her kids. I think he only told me because they had run into an old neighbor and thought I she would tell me. But she didn't as we hadn't talked in a while and she probably didn't think anything of it. Anyway, I only put 2 and 2 together when I saw in the phone bills that she has sent him A LOT of pictures that day (pictures of the kids together). I think this is really the only time they spent extended time together as they went to a coffee shop with another friend of hers that worked near the reindeer place afterwards.

4. He has never changed any of his passwords and I have access to his social accounts.

5. It was all only texting, per our phone records. They never spoke on the phone except one time when he wasn't at the bus and no one was there to pick up our son. The bus doesn't allow kids to get off without a parent there as they are kindergarteners.

6. He is not on Snapchat or what's app. I've downloaded both of those just to check if he has an account and he doesn't.

 

Does he have an android phone? If so, you can go to any computer, lig into his google account, and then go to history.google.com. That will gove you all of his searches, youtube history, location data, etc. Just be careful if the kids play on his phone. I almost left my wife because of a few searches I found after an emotional affair. It turned out they were my 8 year old using voice to text and google misinterpreted what she said ("how come the car" showed up as "how to c#? In a car").

 

You should also check his texts with friends. That's where I found my wife's text saying she was in love with another man, and also how I was able to find the exact day their communications began (he was her ex). Be aware that even if you find things like that it doesn't mean the feelings were real, anything happened, or your marriage is over.

 

If, after all the searching, you don't find more then I think this was likely benign, and something to let go and work on your own marriage. Especially if he hasn't done things like this in the past.

[HereNorThere]

I'm planning a trip out of the country with a friend and I still don't believe the person I'm planning it with and I have ever sent 40 text messages in a day.

 

Also, I'm assuming he has an android or non-apple phone because you say you can see when he is texting. iMessage on iPhone uses the data and it's encrypted, so Apple to Apple texting can't show up on an itemized bill. - But they could just as easily switched over to an email account, whatsapp, etc. and you would never know it. A famous Army general in the U.S. and his mistress used a burner email account, but instead of sending each other messages, they simply saved the emails in the drafts folder and each logged in a read the message and then deleted it.

 

Either way, if you did a straw poll here, I doubt very many people here believe his story. In fact, I would be more surprised if he was actually honest from the get-go. Cheaters only admit to what you can prove, so it's on you to actually prove something. Nearly every poster here started in your position, but unlike you, most of them actually kept digging until they uncovered the majority of the truth.

 

He certainly isn't acting like an innocent man. In fact, he's acting like a straight up busted cheater. If he didn't do anything wrong (and by all accounts, having an opposite sex friend isn't exactly wrong) why is he suddenly trying to make it up to you? Why is he suddenly remorseful? Trust me, there's nothing more infuriating than being accused of something you didn't do.

 

Deleted text messages, admittedly "secret" friends, her acting innocent at the bus stop, etc. etc. etc. - The truth is that you willfully do not want to know the truth. In some ways, you've actually been an enabler in this situation. It's not your fault, but at some point you have to stop all the rationalizations and decide if you really want to know the truth or if this story is good enough for you.

 

I haven't seen you post anything about audio recorders (vars) private investigators, polygraph test, speaking with her or her husband, nothing. You are doing everything in your power to help him hide the truth from you. If that's the way you live your life, fine, but you also forfeit your right to act surprised when they finally do get busted in the act. I'm sure if you won't do you part to uncover it, her husband eventually will.

[heartwhole]

I'm planning a trip out of the country with a friend and I still don't believe the person I'm planning it with and I have ever sent 40 text messages in a day.

 

 

He certainly isn't acting like an innocent man. In fact, he's acting like a straight up busted cheater. If he didn't do anything wrong (and by all accounts, having an opposite sex friend isn't exactly wrong) why is he suddenly trying to make it up to you? Why is he suddenly remorseful? Trust me, there's nothing more infuriating than being accused of something you didn't do.

 

Deleted text messages, admittedly "secret" friends, her acting innocent at the bus stop, etc. etc. etc. - The truth is that you willfully do not want to know the truth. In some ways, you've actually been an enabler in this situation.

 

 

I also have to agree. I don't send 10 text messages a day to anyone, let alone 40. And sure, the pictures could have been of the kids, but why go to all the trouble to delete them then? If it were me, I'd need to keep digging until I got to the bottom of everything.

 

I really wanted to believe it was just an EA. I wanted to believe he wasn't lying when I asked pointedly, did he ever see her, did he ever spend money on her, did she give him anything, etc etc etc. After every discovery, I'd think, OK, THIS is what he was hiding. But then it would still bother me. Things just didn't add up. So I just kept going. I never ever thought he would sleep with someone else. We've been together 17 years. We'd never had other partners. She lived thousands of miles away. Even after I found the email where he bought her a ticket to join him, even after I knew about the sexting, when I asked if she had gone to that city with him, he said, "Not with me." Come on. How dumb do you think I am?

 

Do you feel like he's telling you the whole truth? I never felt like mine was. He looked shifty. He gave short, staccato answers. He didn't elaborate. If you were innocent and trying to prove yourself, wouldn't you go on and on with the details that prove your innocence?

 

I said repeatedly that we couldn't rebuild on lies. Reconciliation could only happen if I had all the truth. Unfortunately, he lacked the courage and character to come clean back then. I believe in the past year, he's worked on both of those things. There's hope, but only if you know exactly what you are dealing with.

[Lois_Griffin]

You're making the classic mistake of blaming yourself for your husband's unacceptable behavior.

 

You have a right to be unhappy with your job if you're there 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and then come home to a houseful of kids. That doesn't give him the right to get involved with someone else.

 

My husband works from home, too. Again, big deal. That doesn't entitle him to cozy up to the neighbor across the street because he's craving adult conversation. Nor has he done that. If you were a SAHM you'd be at home 24/7. Would that entitle you to be acting inappropriately with the married man across the street?

 

A few people have suggested you get DR FONE and run it on your husband's phone. You want to know what those deleted messages said? Get DR FONE.

 

It undeletes text messages he sneakily deleted (and that's exactly what he did). But get it SOON - before they're overwritten.

[turnera]

The erased texts bother me a great deal. It is a big nagging feeling that continues to eat at me.

Is he the kind of person who fudges to get out of trouble? Or omits the truth if he'll be called out on it? If so, this is right in line with that kind of personality - avoiding trouble. The kind of thing he would have learned in childhood.

 

If not, I'd worry about it too.

[S2B]

Of course it's possible lots of things happened. You are choosing not to find out more.

 

You're gone all day long - you have no idea what he's really doing while you're at work and he's home.

 

You could install a video cam at home to find out what happens when you're away. That may tell you something rather than nothing.

[Honourably honest]

Some good advice here, use DrFone to put your mind at ease. I still think this is the proverbial mountaintop from the tiniest molehill!

[renaissancewoman]

Renaissance woman:

If he continues to socialize with her alone, without you, he is playing with fire.

 

I am glad to see you noticed and nipped this in the bud.

 

Thank you Liam,

I do believe that I nipped it in the bud. And he no longer socializes alone with her. It is not like there are not other parents at the bus stop. So I don't believe it's a setting that they would be openly making plans behind my back or flirting in front of the other neighbors. Yes it started with innocently going to the park after school, which led to the exchange of numbers which led to a lot of outside communication away from the bus stop. But now I don't worry about them seeing each other at the bus stop and somehow using that as an opportunity to make plans to meet. I actually think it has become quite awkward for the two of them. For me, I barely even acknowledge her when I see her except for the half smile and "good morning". I talk to my other neighbors at the bus and she rarely enters into the conversation and just sort of stands in the background.

 

I do admit that about a month after I found out, I left in the middle of work and drove to the park across the bus stop and hid in the woods to watch how they interacted at the bus. He barely acknowledged her and conversed mostly with the other parents while our kids played together. When the bus got there he walked the kids back to the house and she just went back into her minivan without so much of a parting good bye.

 

A couple people have said this is a boundary issue and I tend to agree. I truly believe that while it started out inncocently, it did turn into a crush and a strong attraction on my husband's part as she represented a great counterpoint to our stressed out life at home. I know it sounds like I'm blaming myself, but I'm not. I am just mature enough to admit that there was an ugly atmosphere in marriage that I contributed to and gave way to fertile ground for him to become attracted to someone else.

 

When I say I noticed how they interacted, it wasn't like they were flirting at the party. We went innertubing so there actually was not much face to face time with each other. He spent most of the time with our family. There was a lot of waiting in line. We all hung around the same lines but there wasn't a real gathering of the party goers until afterwards. This is when I just noticed them talking and I don't know, the way he looked at her made me uneasy. He wasn't swooning or anything. I think I just realized that this was not just some parent that he occasionally talked to at the bus. Like I just knew he was attracted to her. Obviously, it led to me digging more and that's how I uncovered their "friendship."

 

But for all those who keep insisting that there is more, I believe that it had the potential to becoming more. But it's never got further than that. Why? Simply, I have the luxury of context that none of you have. I realize that many on here come with their own histories and their own baggage and it's easy to see into a situation and project what they know from their own experiences. But I know my husband.

 

I know:

1) He texts A LOT in general. When I look at our bill he constantly has about 1500-1800 texts on his line in a month. It is his preferred form of communication. He communicates with his clients and other brokers this way. We are exclusively in cell phones so he doesn't have a land line to be using for phone calls. And I do think that the fact they never talked on the phone is something of note. So while some think that a 40-text conversation with someone is a lot, it's not for him. And by the way, that only was that one day. A handful involved 10-20 texts and the rest were 3-5 texts in a day. There were times where they didn't text for a week at a time. He regularly has 400-text months with his brother. He and I exchange about 300 texts in a month. It's how he is. So just because some of you don't text as much, it doesn't prove to me that my husband physically cheated.

2) especially since none of the texts were late at night. Which is a classic sign. He is a predictable guy. He values his sleep. He generally turns in for the night at 9-10 and nothing will keep him from getting 8 hours of sleep. Nothing!

3) He is a snob. He hates uninvited guests becuase thinks that the house needs to be perfectly presentable before we have guests over. He hates showing a messy house to anyone. So if he was going to bring another woman into our bed, I would notice because that would mean he would be actually making an effort to fold all the laundry that permanently resides at the foot of it. Would he go to her house? Absolutely not.

4) were the texts inappropriate? Maybe they would have gotten flirty and maybe they contained all the beginnings of sharing intimate details about our family and marriage, all those things that lead to a deeper emotional connection. But I don't believe that there was sexting. Why? Again because I know his nature. I spent 1 year away for college. I didn't have a cell phone to text but we did talk on the phone A LOT. Do you know how many times we had phone sex? One time. It doesn't do it for him. He prefers the real thing. Do you know how many times he texts dirty texts? Rarely. He prefers face to face foreplay. I just don't see him getting excited over sexting with someone else no matter how new and exciting she may seem.

5) He virtually spends no time away from our family if he can help it. He doesn't even like going away on business. I am usually the one that tries to encourage him to go and hang out with buddies. He doesn't do it because he prefers to spend time with us. So he doesn't sneak off to have trysts with this woman and if it was physical, I would notice with the amount of time would spend away from us.

 

So this is the context I have with being married to him for 10 years and dating for 6 years before that. and all this contributes to the degree in which I believe him. It's not me being an enabler, nor is it turning a blind eye, it's me taking the full context and everything I know about this man and assessing the probabilities of each scenario.

[renaissancewoman]

This is a man who is completely technologically impaired. He literally needs help from me to save things to a flash drive. I did it for him last week. This morning he handed me his phone because he wanted me to apply a new picture of me in his contacts so that it didn't just show ICE when I call. So burner phones and burner laptops are yes possible I suppose, but virtually improbable.

[Cloudcuckoo]

Thank you Liam,

I do believe that I nipped it in the bud. And he no longer socializes alone with her. It is not like there are not other parents at the bus stop. So I don't believe it's a setting that they would be openly making plans behind my back or flirting in front of the other neighbors. Yes it started with innocently going to the park after school, which led to the exchange of numbers which led to a lot of outside communication away from the bus stop. But now I don't worry about them seeing each other at the bus stop and somehow using that as an opportunity to make plans to meet. I actually think it has become quite awkward for the two of them. For me, I barely even acknowledge her when I see her except for the half smile and "good morning". I talk to my other neighbors at the bus and she rarely enters into the conversation and just sort of stands in the background.

 

I do admit that about a month after I found out, I left in the middle of work and drove to the park across the bus stop and hid in the woods to watch how they interacted at the bus. He barely acknowledged her and conversed mostly with the other parents while our kids played together. When the bus got there he walked the kids back to the house and she just went back into her minivan without so much of a parting good bye.

 

A couple people have said this is a boundary issue and I tend to agree. I truly believe that while it started out inncocently, it did turn into a crush and a strong attraction on my husband's part as she represented a great counterpoint to our stressed out life at home. I know it sounds like I'm blaming myself, but I'm not. I am just mature enough to admit that there was an ugly atmosphere in marriage that I contributed to and gave way to fertile ground for him to become attracted to someone else.

 

When I say I noticed how they interacted, it wasn't like they were flirting at the party. We went innertubing so there actually was not much face to face time with each other. He spent most of the time with our family. There was a lot of waiting in line. We all hung around the same lines but there wasn't a real gathering of the party goers until afterwards. This is when I just noticed them talking and I don't know, the way he looked at her made me uneasy. He wasn't swooning or anything. I think I just realized that this was not just some parent that he occasionally talked to at the bus. Like I just knew he was attracted to her. Obviously, it led to me digging more and that's how I uncovered their "friendship."

 

But for all those who keep insisting that there is more, I believe that it had the potential to becoming more. But it's never got further than that. Why? Simply, I have the luxury of context that none of you have. I realize that many on here come with their own histories and their own baggage and it's easy to see into a situation and project what they know from their own experiences. But I know my husband.

 

I know:

1) He texts A LOT in general. When I look at our bill he constantly has about 1500-1800 texts on his line in a month. It is his preferred form of communication. He communicates with his clients and other brokers this way. We are exclusively in cell phones so he doesn't have a land line to be using for phone calls. And I do think that the fact they never talked on the phone is something of note. So while some think that a 40-text conversation with someone is a lot, it's not for him. And by the way, that only was that one day. A handful involved 10-20 texts and the rest were 3-5 texts in a day. There were times where they didn't text for a week at a time. He regularly has 400-text months with his brother. He and I exchange about 300 texts in a month. It's how he is. So just because some of you don't text as much, it doesn't prove to me that my husband physically cheated.

2) especially since none of the texts were late at night. Which is a classic sign. He is a predictable guy. He values his sleep. He generally turns in for the night at 9-10 and nothing will keep him from getting 8 hours of sleep. Nothing!

3) He is a snob. He hates uninvited guests becuase thinks that the house needs to be perfectly presentable before we have guests over. He hates showing a messy house to anyone. So if he was going to bring another woman into our bed, I would notice because that would mean he would be actually making an effort to fold all the laundry that permanently resides at the foot of it. Would he go to her house? Absolutely not.

4) were the texts inappropriate? Maybe they would have gotten flirty and maybe they contained all the beginnings of sharing intimate details about our family and marriage, all those things that lead to a deeper emotional connection. But I don't believe that there was sexting. Why? Again because I know his nature. I spent 1 year away for college. I didn't have a cell phone to text but we did talk on the phone A LOT. Do you know how many times we had phone sex? One time. It doesn't do it for him. He prefers the real thing. Do you know how many times he texts dirty texts? Rarely. He prefers face to face foreplay. I just don't see him getting excited over sexting with someone else no matter how new and exciting she may seem.

5) He virtually spends no time away from our family if he can help it. He doesn't even like going away on business. I am usually the one that tries to encourage him to go and hang out with buddies. He doesn't do it because he prefers to spend time with us. So he doesn't sneak off to have trysts with this woman and if it was physical, I would notice with the amount of time would spend away from us.

 

So this is the context I have with being married to him for 10 years and dating for 6 years before that. and all this contributes to the degree in which I believe him. It's not me being an enabler, nor is it turning a blind eye, it's me taking the full context and everything I know about this man and assessing the probabilities of each scenario.

 

I'm glad you're able to see the circumstances for what they are Renaissance, and as I've repeatedly said, nobody knows your husband as well as you do.

 

Despite what some say, you've examined this and concluded (rightly in my opinion) that this situation had the POTENTIAL to be troublesome.

 

I would reiterate my suggestion that you both open a bottle of something delicious when the children are tucked up and sit down to talk honestly about boundaries and what that means to your marriage.

 

Be honest with your husband and tell him that you could sense those subtle changes that set of your radar, and that you have little doubt that things could easily have escalated. Set your boundaries together and love by them.

 

I'm sure the woman in question will now realise that you are giving off 'stay away' signals, but I would still seriously think about some sort of subtle way of letting her know you won't tolerate her interfering in your marriage.

 

Maybe end your conversation with your own little bit of 'Saturday night fever'! (Or is that just me showing my age)!!!

 

My best wishes to you,

 

Cuckoo

[renaissancewoman]

I'm glad you're able to see the circumstances for what they are Renaissance, and as I've repeatedly said, nobody knows your husband as well as you do.

 

Despite what some say, you've examined this and concluded (rightly in my opinion) that this situation had the POTENTIAL to be troublesome.

 

I would reiterate my suggestion that you both open a bottle of something delicious when the children are tucked up and sit down to talk honestly about boundaries and what that means to your marriage.

 

Be honest with your husband and tell him that you could sense those subtle changes that set of your radar, and that you have little doubt that things could easily have escalated. Set your boundaries together and love by them.

 

I'm sure the woman in question will now realise that you are giving off 'stay away' signals, but I would still seriously think about some sort of subtle way of letting her know you won't tolerate her interfering in your marriage.

 

Maybe end your conversation with your own little bit of 'Saturday night fever'! (Or is that just me showing my age)!!!

 

My best wishes to you,

 

Cuckoo

LOL! Saturday Night Fever! That gave me a good chuckle.

 

As I said in my original post, our marriage is stronger now and I feel like we are in a good place. We've regularly had date nights, which we didn't before because 1) finding a babysitter for 5 kids is challenging and 2) he didn't like the idea of leaving the kids alone. Our oldest is 13 and he just since January has become more open to leaving briefly. We'll go to dinner and stay within 10 miles of the house and only be gone for 2 hours, but it's been great for reconnecting and alone time.

 

With regard to OW, I've been scouring her social profiles. Lots of recent posts about dissatisfaction with how her husband ignores her and having a one-sides relationship. Kind of sheds new light.

[Cloudcuckoo]

LOL! Saturday Night Fever! That gave me a good chuckle.

 

As I said in my original post, our marriage is stronger now and I feel like we are in a good place. We've regularly had date nights, which we didn't before because 1) finding a babysitter for 5 kids is challenging and 2) he didn't like the idea of leaving the kids alone. Our oldest is 13 and he just since January has become more open to leaving briefly. We'll go to dinner and stay within 10 miles of the house and only be gone for 2 hours, but it's been great for reconnecting and alone time.

 

With regard to OW, I've been scouring her social profiles. Lots of recent posts about dissatisfaction with how her husband ignores her and having a one-sides relationship. Kind of sheds new light.

 

Your observations about her just say it all then don't they? There you have it.

 

Keep your eyes peeled!

 

(I'd still be sure to drop a subtle hint.....)

 

Enjoy the weekend Renaissance .

[renaissancewoman]

Your observations about her just say it all then don't they? There you have it.

 

Keep your eyes peeled!

 

(I'd still be sure to drop a subtle hint.....)

 

Enjoy the weekend Renaissance .

Thanks Cuckoo!

 

Have a great weekend! And thank you for being my sounding board. It helps to get this out and down on paper so to speak. Helps to straighten out what I have in my head.

[renaissancewoman]

Regarding the subtle hint, I haven't ruled it out and haven't decided how "subtle" it will be.

[Sub]

 

With regard to OW, I've been scouring her social profiles. Lots of recent posts about dissatisfaction with how her husband ignores her and having a one-sides relationship. Kind of sheds new light.

 

Have you discussed this part with your H? It may help give him some perspective on her potential motives as well. I'm also curious if she would mention these things to him in conversation.

[merrmeade]

This is a man who is completely technologically impaired. He literally needs help from me to save things to a flash drive. I did it for him last week. This morning he handed me his phone because he wanted me to apply a new picture of me in his contacts so that it didn't just show ICE when I call. So burner phones and burner laptops are yes possible I suppose, but virtually improbable.

Yes, but this is exactly why you should suspect more. Sure he probably didn't have a burner phone (or think of such a thing) because he thinks he's deleted all the text messages and so there is nothing to see. But why. Why did he delete them, rw?

 

The other thing I think you should keep in mind is that there are other explanations for the fact that he -

- was immediately forthcoming.

- started doing all the nice-guy things you mentioned.

- was unafraid to let you into all his accounts.

(The latter I already said I think is because he's not tech savvy and doesn't know what could be revealed and thinks deleting the texts was enough).

 

One explanation is that he himself is in denial about whatever he did or said. Some of us have big-picture patterns in common with our situations, but the psychology of how each player in the story views what's happened can vary.

 

So a lot of us are relating to aspects of your situation. I have a lot in common that might help you. The OW was my sister-in-law. Like you, I interacted with both. Like you, I felt uneasy about things I'd sensed or noticed between them. Like your H, mine thought deleting his text messages removed history. Like your H and OW, they both fiercely claimed they were just friends. In fact, their line was, "It was 90% friendship." Kind of obvious that cracking the 10% would be the game changer. It was.

 

And, in fact, my sister-in-law never budged from that denial position of "friends - mostly." They had so 'worked' the legitimacy of their (90%) relationship, milking the family connection, to rationalize their feelings that she's still there, from what I've discerned, 3 years later.

 

My H buckled fairly quickly, called her bluff to me and agreed that the 10% is the point and cancels out the rest.

 

So I don't know what your husband's 10% or maybe 5, even 1%, might be. But the fact of those deleted messages means there is a percentage of their friendship that he doesn't want you to shine a light on. He's admitted inappropriateness, but how much more inappropriate than what he's told you?

 

Realize that their minds have already been working overtime manipulating all this reality so that they themselves can live with it and carry on. This can mean for your H convincing himself that admitting to the general wrongness of his feelings and actions is enough. Details aren't needed and would just upset you, right? He realizes he was way out of line and he'll never do it again, of course, so everybody just needs to move on from here and he'll make it all up to you. No need to disrupt anybody's individual or family lives. Just move on and everything will go back to the way it was. And, oh, if you're already accepting a little guilt for 'driving' him that direction, well, then okay.

 

You see how the truth somehow becomes relative and malleable? Once people think they have dodged the bullet and have a chance to sweep it under the rug, they don't think of these distortions as lying and even justify them as necessary for 'everyone's sake.' My SIL actually told me they 'had' to hide the fact that they were 'best friends' and were in constant communication because I would have been 'uncomfortable' with it. She believed this herself; I have absolutely no doubt about that.

 

Oh, I almost forgot to mention my data. We were with AT&T at the time, and I could access 13 months of calls and text. They were in constant communication almost every day, averaging 100+ calls plus texts a month. It's good you're putting the number - 400 - in context, since you say your H is a big texter, but the problem is you're comparing this number with how many he sends you and his brother. Is that valid? Comparing what he sends you to what he sent this woman? I don't think you want to go there.

Edited April 16, 2016 by merrmeade

[renaissancewoman]

Have you discussed this part with your H? It may help give him some perspective on her potential motives as well. I'm also curious if she would mention these things to him in conversation.

Honestly, I don't even want to show these to my husband or talk about them because he'll wonder how I would have gotten that information. I know he googled her by name in the beginning but her social profiles (Twitter, Instagram etc) are not her name. I only found her profile nicknames by adding her as a contact on my phone and seeing it through snapchat. So when I googled that, that's how I found her on Twitter and Instagram and tumblr. I don't believe my husband knows of these profiles and they only connected on Facebook, which he has since unfriended her. My husband does not have snapchat or whatsapp because when I look for him, it says I need to invite him. I don't even think he knows about these. As I said, he is technologically impaired. Any social media account of his was setup by me.

 

When I first confronted him, he tried to just make me seem I was being ridiculous for even thinking anything sordid happened. His idea of cheating is physical - that's where his mind goes. The concept of emotional affair was totally foreign to him so as I uncovered more and he really did begin to understand why they were so dangerous and how inappropriate his relationship was, that's when he really became remorseful.

 

So in the beginning he said he was happily married to me and she is happily married to her husband. I actually think he does believe that she is happily married, he just assumes that about everyone. Which is also why I think he thought there was nothing wrong with their relationship.

[merrmeade]

One more important thing: I'm not saying I think your H is hiding a full-blown affair. I'm sure he's not. But what IS he hiding? A kiss? Conversations about marital problems? Hugging? Touching? Talking about NOT hugging, kissing or touching? Maybe it's far less and the doubt is what makes you worry. Either way, it's imperative in my opinion that you BOTH look at the 'inappropriate' things he did and said together and, in the light of day, name them. He needs to see how it affects you. He needs to voluntarily reveal it to you.

 

My H's 'inappropriateness' was everything BUT intercourse 3-4 times (which I doubt is accurate but don't care - it's bad enough) and that's obviously why he didn't last a day trying to rug-sweep it. It's kind of crazy to me that my sister-in-law could and does. The question you also have to consider is opportunity. My father stupidly thought it was fine for my H and SIL to stay alone together in our family cabin and there you have it: opportunity.

[elaine567]

This is a man who is completely technologically impaired. He literally needs help from me to save things to a flash drive. I did it for him last week. This morning he handed me his phone because he wanted me to apply a new picture of me in his contacts so that it didn't just show ICE when I call. So burner phones and burner laptops are yes possible I suppose, but virtually improbable.

 

He's a broker and sends up to 1800 texts a month and he is not tech saavvy???

He doesn't need to be "tech savvy" to buy a prepaid phone and buying a second laptop is hardly a big deal either.

His social media accounts may have been set up by you, but what is to stop her setting up new accounts/apps for him so they can chat away from prying eyes? I am sure he is not intellectually impaired, so setting up his own new accounts/apps I guess is hardly beyond him either...

I get it, 5 kids and your head is in the sand, but just do not be too trusting here.

The capacity for the human brain to come up with ways to fool the unwary is immense, do not assume anything.

[renaissancewoman]

Yes, but this is exactly why you should suspect more. Sure he probably didn't have a burner phone (or think of such a thing) because he thinks he's deleted all the text messages and so there is nothing to see. But why. Why did he delete them, rw?

 

The other thing I think you should keep in mind is that there are other explanations for the fact that he -

- was immediately forthcoming.

- started doing all the nice-guy things you mentioned.

- was unafraid to let you into all his accounts.

(The latter I already said I think is because he's not tech savvy and doesn't know what could be revealed and thinks deleting the texts was enough).

 

One explanation is that he himself is in denial about whatever he did or said. Some of us have big-picture patterns in common with our situations, but the psychology of how each player in the story views what's happened can vary.

 

So a lot of us are relating to aspects of your situation. I have a lot in common that might help you. The OW was my sister-in-law. Like you, I interacted with both. Like you, I felt uneasy about things I'd sensed or noticed between them. Like your H, mine thought deleting his text messages removed history. Like your H and OW, they both fiercely claimed they were just friends. In fact, their line was, "It was 90% friendship." Kind of obvious that cracking the 10% would be the game changer. It was.

 

And, in fact, my sister-in-law never budged from that denial position of "friends - mostly." They had so 'worked' the legitimacy of their (90%) relationship, milking the family connection, to rationalize their feelings that she's still there, from what I've discerned, 3 years later.

 

My H buckled fairly quickly, called her bluff to me and agreed that the 10% is the point and cancels out the rest.

 

So I don't know what your husband's 10% or maybe 5, even 1%, might be. But the fact of those deleted messages means there is a percentage of their friendship that he doesn't want you to shine a light on. He's admitted inappropriateness, but how much more inappropriate than what he's told you?

 

Realize that their minds have already been working overtime manipulating all this reality so that they themselves can live with it and carry on. This can mean for your H convincing himself that admitting to the general wrongness of his feelings and actions is enough. Details aren't needed and would just upset you, right? He realizes he was way out of line and he'll never do it again, of course, so everybody just needs to move on from here and he'll make it all up to you. No need to disrupt anybody's individual or family lives. Just move on and everything will go back to the way it was. And, oh, if you're already accepting a little guilt for 'driving' him that direction, well, then okay.

 

You see how the truth somehow becomes relative and malleable? Once people think they have dodged the bullet and have a chance to sweep it under the rug, they don't think of these distortions as lying and even justify them as necessary for 'everyone's sake.' My SIL actually told me they 'had' to hide the fact that they were 'best friends' and were in constant communication because I would have been 'uncomfortable' with it. She believed this herself; I have absolutely no doubt about that.

 

Oh, I almost forgot to mention my data. We were with AT&T at the time, and I could access 13 months of calls and text. They were in constant communication almost every day, averaging 100+ calls plus texts a month. It's good you're putting the number - 400 - in context, since you say your H is a big texter, but the problem is you're comparing this number with how many he sends you and his brother. Is that valid? Comparing what he sends you to what he sent this woman? I don't think you want to go there.

First of all, this woman is in no way closely related to our family at all as your sister in law. So there is no milking of any connection. She is someone I rarely interacted with. I literally saw this woman but 2-3 times before because I was never the one at the bus stop. (I left early for work and my husband was there in the morning and afternoon.) So it was precisely the fact that our families had very few interactions together that set me off when I saw how comfortably he was conversing with her. It wasn't just the typical going to some kids party and getting to know parents sort of interaction.

 

But to compare the kind of access that my H and OW have to each other with yours and your SIL is like apples and oranges. So for me, the just friends thing never worked because I don't accept that people of opposites sex be friends without also befriending the other partner.

 

Secondly, I'm sorry that your family went through that, but I sincerely disagree that it happened here. They didn't text daily or even ever talked on the phone. I think that he deleted the texts because he didn't want me to see just how much they did text more than what was texted. He deleted them to hide the fact that no they weren't just friends who on a nice day decided to go to the park sometimes on a whim.

[renaissancewoman]

He's a broker and sends up to 1800 texts a month and he is not tech saavvy???

He doesn't need to be "tech savvy" to buy a prepaid phone and buying a second laptop is hardly a big deal either.

His social media accounts may have been set up by you, but what is to stop her setting up new accounts/apps for him so they can chat away from prying eyes? I am sure he is not intellectually impaired, so setting up his own new accounts/apps I guess is hardly beyond him either...

I get it, 5 kids and your head is in the sand, but just do not be too trusting here.

The capacity for the human brain to come up with ways to fool the unwary is immense, do not assume anything.

We both work full-time with 5 kids and one vehicle for our family. Buying a second of anything is not so easy as it sounds. As I said, he is a broker that sometimes goes MONTHS between paychecks. We are not exactly rolling in the dough.

 

It may be hard to believe but he can't even remember the passwords to the accounts he always uses. Do you really think that he would take on more just so he could keep up the charade and have a bimbo on the side? He is not that desperate for an outside companion.