Great first date, no second date planned - do I move on if he doesn't initiate?

[katiegrl]

I disagree with most other posts.

 

One of the biggest signs of interest is a guy trying to secure the next date. Low level chit chatting suggests that he is lukewarm and keeping his options open. I have recently had a number of guys do this. It never led to anything else than a slow fade.

 

Even the shyest of guys do the heavy bulk of initiation when they really like a girl, especially if she has already expressed interest and is reciprocating with messages.

 

Mixed messages always meant low interest. Guys tend to be really obvious. I would move on.

 

I agree ES.

 

The men responding on here date women, not men.

 

And as women who DO date men, we know through experience that when a man is interested .. he *will* set the next date fairly quickly. Even if that date is a week out. The point is, we have another date scheduled.

 

That has been my experience and the experience of most women I know.

 

NOT continue texting telling us about all the other things he has planned that week, or weekend, that DON'T include us, like this guy was (is) doing.

 

No offense to salparadise, but that notion is a bit ludicrous.

 

This guy is lukewarm, at BEST.

 

sal, I realize there are exceptions and you may be one.

 

But from what the OP has posted, I don't think he is one of them.

 

She should follow her own gut on this which is telling her something is OFF.

Edited April 11, 2016 by katiegrl

[Eternal Sunshine]

I agree ES.

 

The men responding on here date women, not men.

 

And as women who DO date men, we know through experience that when a man is interested .. he *will* set the next date fairly quickly. Even if that date is a week out. The point is, we have another date scheduled.

 

That has been my experience and the experience of most women I know.

 

NOT continue texting telling us about all the other things he has planned that week, or weekend, that DON'T include us, like this guy was (is) doing.

 

No offense to salparadise, but that notion is a bit ludicrous.

 

This guy is lukewarm, at BEST.

 

sal, I realize there are exceptions and you may be one.

 

But from what the OP has posted, I don't think he is one of them.

 

She should follow her own gut on this which is telling her something is OFF.

 

Exactly.

 

I have been on over 100 online dates in the last couple of years and had this situation come up quite a few times. I have been really interested in some of these men and actually followed it up by asking them out or asking them if they were still interested in dating. There was not one case where this ended positively. Few said that they were just after something casual/wanted to be friends/not over the ex etc. Few were lukewarm about going on the next date and things faded soon after.

 

If anything, it's very hard to keep an interested man away in the early stages.

[salparadise]

No offense to salparadise, but that notion is a bit ludicrous.

 

This guy is lukewarm, at BEST.

 

sal, I realize there are exceptions and you may be one.

 

But from what the OP has posted, I don't think he is one of them.

 

Let's say he is lukewarm, which could also be described as moderately interested or not head over heels after one date. Why does that make him a scoundrel? Hell, women are the masters of feigning demure and downplaying interest. Perhaps the guy is actually less interested than OP. That doesn't make him a scoundrel.

 

The unspoken premise here is that the guy is supposed to be head over heels after one date, and if that's not the case then it's not worth pursuing. I think that's ridiculous.

 

Women have this way of thinking that guys are suppose to play the game according to female rules, or assumptions, as the case may be. Why is interested buy not over-the-top, perhaps cautious, wrong for guys but correct for women?

[katiegrl]

Let's say he is lukewarm, which could also be described as somewhat interested but not head over heels. Why does that make him a scoundrel? Hell, women are the masters of feigning demure and downplaying interest. Perhaps the guy is actually less interested that OP. That doesn't make him a scoundrel.

 

The unspoken premise here is that the guy is supposed to be head over heels after one date, and if that's not the case then it's not worth pursuing. I think that's ridiculous.

 

Women have this way of thinking that guys are suppose to play the game according to female rules, or assumptions, as the case may be. Why is interested buy not over-the-top, perhaps cautious, wrong for guys but correct for women?

 

I did not call him a scoundral, simply a man who doesn't appear to be all that interested.

 

I dunno, I don't date men who are lukewarm, just me!

 

If a woman wants to go that route, that is her choice.

 

But at the very least, she should wait for HIM to initiate the next date, since she did already tell him she was interested in going out again. And she sort of initiated the first date too.

 

Men tell us they need a sign, a green light to pursue.

 

Well she has done that! Given him that green light.

 

Now you are saying that she should still be the one to ask him out again? By contacting him and inviting him for drink or dinner?

 

Should HE not be putting forth some effort too?

 

Besides sending texts telling her about all his plans with others that don't include her?

 

I'm sorry, this makes no sense to me.

Edited April 11, 2016 by katiegrl

[salparadise]

Now you are saying that she should still be the one to ask him out again? By contacting him and inviting him for drink or dinner?

 

No, not saying she should but there's nothing wrong with it either. I just think it's interesting how all of these women are reinforcing her narrow expectation that he should ask her out again within 72 hours, or else something's not right about the guy. It's all just rigid gender stereotyping and fairy tale mentality. You'd think that women would be more egalitarian and independent in the 21st century. If a woman prefers to be pursued like a Victorian era debutante, that's one thing, but when they're all trying to convince another young woman that this is how it should always be, that's quite another.

 

And how ironic is it that a man is here arguing for egalitarianism and evolving past these old gender clichés with women clinging to it as if their very self-worth depends on it?

[Lovezen_30]

No, not saying she should but there's nothing wrong with it either. I just think it's interesting how all of these women are reinforcing her narrow expectation that he should ask her out again within 72 hours, or else something's not right about the guy. It's all just rigid gender stereotyping and fairy tale mentality. You'd think that women would be more egalitarian and independent in the 21st century. If a woman prefers to be pursued like a Victorian era debutante, that's one thing, but when they're all trying to convince another young woman that this is how it should always be, that's quite another.

 

And how ironic is it that a man is here arguing for egalitarianism and evolving past these old gender clichés with women clinging to it as if their very self-worth depends on it?

 

Update from OP. So, I asked him out again. Within the hour he replied asking when I am free, so that we can find a good time that suits us both/also because he is really busy at work. On that note, he is an engineer and doing another Masters! He said he would like to meet in the evening (at first I'm thinking, booty call?! ) but also mentioned 'morning' wasn't possible this time because of work. I asked him to let me know asap as a friend has asked me to meet him the same night and I would like to give him an answer.

 

He said he would try & see if his colleague could cover some of his work and then asked how my day had been in the meantime. So far, so good!

 

I am aware that perhaps I expect too much from the guy. Even as a feminist I can get sucked into supposed "gender norms" and expecting him to chase me. It doesn't help when the females around you reinforce this. Also, sometimes it's hard to tell: how much does the guy I'm seeing feed into this gender norm himself - or even prefer it? Do you think most guys actually prefer 50/50 in terms of the so-called chase?

[katiegrl]

Update from OP. So, I asked him out again. Within the hour he replied asking when I am free, so that we can find a good time that suits us both/also because he is really busy at work. On that note, he is an engineer and doing another Masters! He said he would like to meet in the evening (at first I'm thinking, booty call?! ) but also mentioned 'morning' wasn't possible this time because of work. I asked him to let me know asap as a friend has asked me to meet him the same night and I would like to give him an answer.

 

He said he would try & see if his colleague could cover some of his work and then asked how my day had been in the meantime. So far, so good!

 

I am aware that perhaps I expect too much from the guy. Even as a feminist I can get sucked into supposed "gender norms" and expecting him to chase me. It doesn't help when the females around you reinforce this. Also, sometimes it's hard to tell: how much does the guy I'm seeing feed into this gender norm himself - or even prefer it? Do you think most guys actually prefer 50/50 in terms of the so-called chase?

 

JMO (as always) but I don't think it's expecting too much that a man asks you (or any woman) out for a second date, especially when you have already conveyed to him your interest in having a second date.

 

That is how men convey interest, especially on those very early dates, by asking a woman out. The women gives the green light, which gives them the confidence to pursue. Again, very early on, like first few dates.

 

I also don't believe that when a man asks a woman out, he is chasing her. Chasing is when someone (man or woman) is running away or not responding, and the other person (in this case, him) chooses to chase her in an attempt to catch her.

 

You were neither running away nor not responding. He asked you if you were interested in second date, and you replied yes. IMO that is HIS cue to then follow up and ask you out.

 

Not necessarily within three days, but within the week would be nice.

 

But you beat him to the punch.... which is fine, I just hope you haven't set a precedent such that HE will expect you to take the initiative when he doesn't feel like it or isn't interested enough to do so.

 

I mean, if my memory serves me correctly, you heavily hinted re the first date too.

 

Perhaps I am being too harsh, but something about this whole thing (and him, AND his response to your invite) isn't quite jiving with me.

 

Nevermind me though, I am not the one dating him you are.

 

I hope he follows through with date and time, and y'all get together and have a great time!

 

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

ETA: I think as time goes on, and two people are dating regularly, then it becomes a 50/50 split with both people contributing equally to the development of the relationship.

 

I think most men in this day and age expect this too.

 

Again, my experience.

Edited April 11, 2016 by katiegrl

[Lovezen_30]

JMO (as always) but I don't think it's expecting too much that a man asks you (or any woman) out for a second date, especially when you have already conveyed to him your interest in having a second date.

 

That is how men convey interest, especially on those very early dates, by asking a woman out. The women gives the green light, which gives them the confidence to pursue. Again, very early on, like first few dates.

 

I also don't believe that when a man asks a woman out, he is chasing her. Chasing is when someone (man or woman) is running away or not responding, and the other person (in this case, him) chooses to chase her in an attempt to catch her.

 

You were neither running away nor not responding. He asked you if you were interested in second date, and you replied yes. IMO that is HIS cue to then follow up and ask you out.

 

Not necessarily within three days, but within the week would be nice.

 

But you beat him to the punch.... which is fine, I just hope you haven't set a precedent such that HE will expect you to take the initiative when he doesn't feel like it or isn't interested enough to do so.

 

I mean, if my memory serves me correctly, you heavily hinted re the first date too.

 

Perhaps I am being too harsh, but something about this whole thing (and him, AND his response to your invite) isn't quite jiving with me.

 

Nevermind me though, I am not the one dating him you are.

 

I hope he follows through with date and time, and y'all get together and have a great time!

 

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

ETA: I think as time goes on, and two people are dating regularly, then it becomes a 50/50 split with both people contributing equally to the development of the relationship.

 

I think most men in this day and age expect this too.

 

Again, my experience.

 

What is wrong with his response to the invite, in your opinion? Just out of interest.

[SwordofFlame]

Do you think most guys actually prefer 50/50 in terms of the so-called chase?

 

When it comes to meeting someone through online dating, I think the answer is unequivocally yes. The reason why is because a lot of people will multi-date. If you're not putting in some reasonable effort, the guy could reasonably assume that you're probably dating other guys that you're more interested in. Sure someone has to take the lead (usually the male), but the balance should never get one-sided.

[katiegrl]

What is wrong with his response to the invite, in your opinion? Just out of interest.

 

This:

 

>>He said he would try & see if his colleague could cover some of his work.

 

That sounds very ambiguous and non-committal to me.

 

I mean, does he not have two hours of free, non-work time to go out on a date for heaven's sake?

 

Is he really that busy, that he can only go on dates when he arranges for a colleague to cover his work?

 

If he is that busy, perhaps he shouldn't be dating at all.

 

Anyway, I really don't want to be negative nellie here.... I truly truly hope he follows up with you and schedules a definitive date and time.

 

Please keep us posted!

[Lovezen_30]

This:

 

>>He said he would try & see if his colleague could cover some of his work.

 

That sounds very ambiguous and non-committal to me.

 

I mean, does he not have two hours of free, non-work time to go out on a date for heaven's sake?

 

Is he really that busy, that he can only go on dates when he arranges for a colleague to cover his work?

 

If he is that busy, perhaps he shouldn't be dating at all.

 

Anyway, I really don't want to be negative nellie here.... I truly truly hope he follows up with you and schedules a definitive date and time.

 

Please keep us posted!

 

He is doing a dissertation and working at the moment. He followed up asking if I could meet him Thursday evening, if he can't get out of work on Wednesday. Positive, no?

 

In any case on the first date, when I asked him if he had been on the dating website we are both on for very long, he said no & also joked that he barely had time to date because he was so busy. He is telling me how busy he is - so I guess it's upto me to listen. As I just set up an online business in recent months, I understand this. I will and thanks!

[katiegrl]

I know I am gonna get shyt from salparadise about this....

 

But imo, the next text from him should be him scheduling definitive date and time to go out again.

 

Not another mundane text letting you know how busy he is with everyone else, except you.

 

And why, pray tell, does he have the time to do things with others, but when it comes to you, he has to arrange for a colleague to cover his work, otherwise he doesn't know if he can make it?

 

This is why I said something isn't jiving.

[katiegrl]

He is doing a dissertation and working at the moment. He followed up asking if I could meet him Thursday evening, if he can't get out of work on Wednesday. Positive, no?

 

In any case on the first date, when I asked him if he had been on the dating website we are both on for very long, he said no & also joked that he barely had time to date because he was so busy.

 

He is telling me how busy he is - so I guess it's upto me to listen. As I just set up an online business in recent months, I understand this. I will and thanks!

 

Yes he's busy, with other people.... and doesn't hesitate to tell you that either.

 

But hey if you are okay with this, then I hope it works out for ya.

 

Mean it.

[Lovezen_30]

Yes he's busy, with other people.... and doesn't hesitate to tell you that either.

 

But hey if you are okay with this, then I hope it works out for ya.

 

Mean it.

 

He's busy at work (or other dates ). He's pretty transparent about his work & often contacts me at 6am when he gets up & sometimes on his lunch hour.

 

I do see what you mean RE he was busy with friends all weekend and wasn't setting up a second date. I haven't forgotten this and do have my eye on it.

[Jejangles]

He is doing a dissertation and working at the moment. He followed up asking if I could meet him Thursday evening, if he can't get out of work on Wednesday. Positive, no?

 

In any case on the first date, when I asked him if he had been on the dating website we are both on for very long, he said no & also joked that he barely had time to date because he was so busy. He is telling me how busy he is - so I guess it's upto me to listen. As I just set up an online business in recent months, I understand this. I will and thanks!

 

I think it's great you guys have a second date! And time always tells in dating. But I would say tread cautiously and let him lead a little. He may have "joked" that he's too busy for dating but you may find that's not really a joke. Guys often tell you right off the bat what they're capable of offering...

 

It's great to give guys a chance, especially if you hit it off with them. All I can say is tread cautiously and don't give more than you are receiving in the early days in particular. There's a lot of time wasters online - you just need to be cautious (if you are looking for a relationship with forward momentum that is).

[katiegrl]

 

He followed up asking if I could meet him Thursday evening, if he can't get out of work on Wednesday. Positive, no?

 

 

I missed this earlier, my bad - yes very positive!

 

Enjoy!

[salparadise]

Update from OP. So, I asked him out again. Within the hour he replied asking when I am free, so that we can find a good time...

 

Good for you! I bet it feels great, doesn't it? You went after what you wanted and quit passively dreaming about fate (or the other gender) granting you a wish.

 

I am aware that perhaps I expect too much from the guy. Even as a feminist I can get sucked into supposed "gender norms" and expecting him to chase me. It doesn't help when the females around you reinforce this.

 

If you identify as a feminist then I'd say think in terms of equal in every respect.

 

Also, sometimes it's hard to tell: how much does the guy I'm seeing feed into this gender norm himself - or even prefer it? Do you think most guys actually prefer 50/50 in terms of the so-called chase?

 

I can't say how much this particular guy feeds into/prefers the old gender clichés, but since he's apparently sharp, educated and progressive, so my guess is not much to not at all. You probably gained a lot of respect by taking the initiative. He responded positively, so that tells you something. I think from now on if you can consider yourself an equal, fully functional human being that he will too... and respect you for it.

 

Most guys? Probably. I think you'll find that most guys don't relate to the word feminism, but they actually appreciate a woman who meets them half way and views herself as competent in every way. You don't have to give up feminine to be feminist. Progressive men inherently understand it.

 

I don't want to go into the full story, but I've dated both types in the past few years. I am now seven months into the best relationship of my life and she is highly competent, smart, lovely, feminine. I'll never go back to what I'd describe as passive with rigid expectations. But let me tell you how our first few dates happened...

 

She liked my profile online. I asked her out in the first message, and she accepted in her first message to me. We went to dinner. When the check came she suggested we split it. I said I'd be happy to get it. She firmly but politely replied, "let's split it" as she place her card next to mine. We smiled at each other and we both knew what that meant- we were on the same page. Up to that point we had not texted each other, but we had exchanged numbers. The next morning she texted me first and said she had a great time, and to let her know if I'd like to go out again. I replied that I would and we set up the next date. She is wonderful.

 

You can call it 50/50. I prefer the word reciprocal. As for chasing... well, we chase each other in a sense. I prefer to think of it as a dance––it takes two to tango.

 

I hope it works out for you two as well as it has for us.

Edited April 11, 2016 by salparadise

[salparadise]

It's great to give guys womenz a chance, especially if you hit it off with them. All I can say is tread cautiously and don't give more than you are receiving in the early days in particular. There's a lot of time wasters online - you just need to be cautious (if you are looking for a relationship with forward momentum that is).

 

Unisex advice

[Dis]

To me, this guy still seems very wishy washy. Guys/women are always on their best behavior, putting their forth their best effort at first....so....my point is.....if this guy is so wishy washy and busy after the first date....how is he going to be down the road?

 

And you initiated the second date, I dont think he wouldve asked you out or made time to see you again had you not done this.

 

Guys like the "chase" (the interested ones do). You cant make a guy interested. They either are or they arent.

 

OP I'm giving you my opinion beacause I dont think your dealing with a guy who is worth your time. I certainly dont know you, but I dont want anyone going on a wild goose chase just to end up getting hurt. There are soooo many other options for you. If I were you, I wouldnt waste my time on a wishy washy guy. I'd put myself out there and find one that I knew for sure was interested.

 

There was never a doubt in my mind that the guy I'm dating now is interested in me. He asked me out again, one hour after our dates ended. He texts me everyday (not convos for hours)but he makes an effort to talk to me and doesnt ignore me. I let him initate contact, I let him plan the dates and he doesnt disappoint, because hes interested.

 

You seem really hopeful about this guy, I dont want you to get hurt. But whatever you decide, I hope it works out for you

[Lovezen_30]

To me, this guy still seems very wishy washy. Guys/women are always on their best behavior, putting their forth their best effort at first....so....my point is.....if this guy is so wishy washy and busy after the first date....how is he going to be down the road?

 

And you initiated the second date, I dont think he wouldve asked you out or made time to see you again had you not done this.

 

Guys like the "chase" (the interested ones do). You cant make a guy interested. They either are or they arent.

 

OP I'm giving you my opinion beacause I dont think your dealing with a guy who is worth your time. I certainly dont know you, but I dont want anyone going on a wild goose chase just to end up getting hurt. There are soooo many other options for you. If I were you, I wouldnt waste my time on a wishy washy guy. I'd put myself out there and find one that I knew for sure was interested.

 

There was never a doubt in my mind that the guy I'm dating now is interested in me. He asked me out again, one hour after our dates ended. He texts me everyday (not convos for hours)but he makes an effort to talk to me and doesnt ignore me. I let him initate contact, I let him plan the dates and he doesnt disappoint, because hes interested.

 

You seem really hopeful about this guy, I dont want you to get hurt. But whatever you decide, I hope it works out for you

 

I have no way of knowing that he wouldn't have asked me out. Everything right now is conjecture, because we have only been on one date.

 

Anyway: I decided to be honest with him. I told him that the slapdash/lack of planning ahead for the first date and now what seemed like the second wasn't going to work for me long-term (if that's how all dates would be). He said he understood and explained why his work had been so busy and would continue to be this week. He then said that "next week we will plan to meet earlier and in the weeks thereafter). I am still keen and open, so we'll see how that goes. If it doesn't go the way I hoped, well I still met a nice guy and it's only been a couple of weeks out of my life!

 

I know you're saying there are more people out there - but you know what? I get so tired of dating! Or thinking the next fish is going to be the better one. Having so much choice (too much?) in dating actually bothers me sometimes

[clia]

I have no way of knowing that he wouldn't have asked me out. Everything right now is conjecture, because we have only been on one date.

 

Anyway: I decided to be honest with him. I told him that the slapdash/lack of planning ahead for the first date and now what seemed like the second wasn't going to work for me long-term (if that's how all dates would be). He said he understood and explained why his work had been so busy and would continue to be this week. He then said that "next week we will plan to meet earlier and in the weeks thereafter). I am still keen and open, so we'll see how that goes. If it doesn't go the way I hoped, well I still met a nice guy and it's only been a couple of weeks out of my life!

 

I know you're saying there are more people out there - but you know what? I get so tired of dating! Or thinking the next fish is going to be the better one. Having so much choice (too much?) in dating actually bothers me sometimes

 

I'll be surprised if he asks you out again after this conversation. It's way too much to unload on him after one date. (And I assume done via phone or text?). If I'm him, I'm thinking "Great, this woman is already criticizing me and complaining. Next." (I don't care how cool and light you thought you were being, the message is still complaining. After a few days. And you've known him what, about a week?)

 

If a guy is interested, he will ask make plans to see you, no matter how busy he is. (Or at least make it clear he's interested.). It's really as simple as that. Now you have flipped the roles and are chasing him and trying to push him.

 

Has he confirmed date 2?

[Lovezen_30]

I'll be surprised if he asks you out again after this conversation. It's way too much to unload on him after one date. (And I assume done via phone or text?). If I'm him, I'm thinking "Great, this woman is already criticizing me and complaining. Next." (I don't care how cool and light you thought you were being, the message is still complaining. After a few days. And you've known him what, about a week?)

 

If a guy is interested, he will ask make plans to see you, no matter how busy he is. (Or at least make it clear he's interested.). It's really as simple as that. Now you have flipped the roles and are chasing him and trying to push him.

 

Has he confirmed date 2?

 

Yes, he has. We had a nice, upbeat chat this morning.

 

I wasn't trying to be cool or light - I was calmly expressing a need. This idea that we have to strive to be light, happy & perfect at the beginning, then pull the curtain back once the person is 'hooked' or something is ridiculous to me.

 

The fact is he asked me to meet late (which screamed booty call to me) and made me uncomfortable. The point is - I recently started a new business and if I'm going to be sharp the next day, I can't be meeting him late on weekdays. Unless - we plan ahead! To tell him that this isn't likely to work for me going forward is not complaining. It's just the truth.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Lovezen_30

[Eternal Sunshine]

Yes, he has. We had a nice, upbeat chat this morning.

 

I wasn't trying to be cool or light - I was calmly expressing a need. This idea that we have to strive to be light, happy & perfect at the beginning, then pull the curtain back once the person is 'hooked' or something is ridiculous to me.

 

The fact is he asked me to meet late (which screamed booty call to me) and made me uncomfortable. The point is - I recently started a new business and if I'm going to be sharp the next day, I can't be meeting him late on weekdays. Unless - we plan ahead! To tell him that this isn't likely to work for me going forward is not complaining. It's just the truth.

 

He knows well that not planning ahead isn't cool. No amount of talking or being open is going to make him suddenly interested enough to plan ahead.

 

The problem is, that 2 weeks in, there shouldn't be a need for that type conversation.

[salparadise]

I wasn't trying to be cool or light - I was calmly expressing a need. This idea that we have to strive to be light, happy & perfect at the beginning, then pull the curtain back once the person is 'hooked' or something is ridiculous to me.

 

Lovezen, I have the feeling that you have plenty of savvy and assertiveness to manage yourself and your dating opportunities with aplomb.

 

Nearly all of the advice you're getting in this thread is attempting to turn you off to this new guy, and my guess is that it's mostly motivated by people's unresolved hurt and disappointment, manifested as entitlement attitudes and zero sum thinking.

 

I hope you remain open and optimistic––that is the way to embrace possibilities and live positively. Just be authentic and think reciprocity when evaluating potential early on. Resist bitterness and cynicism.

[losangelena]

How has this thread grown to four pages already?

 

Need I remind everyone, OP has been on ONE DATE with this guy.

 

Yeah, I get that you kissed and cuddled and held hands, but if I were you, that would make me more wary, not more enthusiastic. The only men who've gotten physical with me on date one were the guys looking for some easy nooky. It's so easy to get caught up in "he's so hot and flirty," like it's too good to be true. You're getting too invested too soon in my opinion.

 

When I was looking to buy a car recently, my mom told me, "never go with the first car you see." I think this is true for dating, too. You haven't been on the scene for two years—cool it down, sister! Take your time (with this guy or others), evaluate your options. Dating can be enjoyable in its own right, not always as a means to an end to get a relationship. If this guy's not doing it "right" by your expectations, YOU next him.