Stages of grief

[Adoraxx]

I think the strategy of him staying my friend was to use me to get over me.

If he wrote each day and I showed that cheerful "Im ok, no problems, Im not upset, were cool" and was just nice, friendly and happy...I think he was like "whew, she doesnt think Im a jerk for stringing her along, I will be able to back away from her slowly, recommit to my wife and family as if it all never happened, I still look like the good guy to both women...Im all set"

So he came back to be friends to ease guilt, smooth it all over, then do a slow fade.

I caught onto some pulling away, Id pull away harder and he'd pull me back almost like "wait, I say when its over, I will control this, relax, were friends, were good"

I dont know if Im making sense but I felt like you...Id rather have him in my life because being apart hurts too much and felt like we were strangers and enemies.

Id invested so many years being a great person in his life so throwing it all away felt like failure.

TRUE friendship never ends. Ours ended.

I think post A friendship is just really 2 people who cant let go, are confused, know the goodbye is gonna hurt, so we/they play nice and it STILL hurts.

I think honestly firm clean endings are best and still HURT but less than still being gaslighted and talking friendly when you love them and its maybe even unrequited. I could go on for ages but I used to roll my eyes and disregard all "cant be friends with xap" posts.

Trust me, its a whole other hell.

The kindest thing for you will be to part ways forever. It will be excruciating but "friends" is its own hell and is basically a drug out extended goodbye of its own.

 

Ditto here

[privategal]

Ditto here

 

I hope your doing ok friend.

Im looking forward to the days and times I do not think of him at ALL.

I KNOW those days are coming, I just hope they arent too far off.

Its one big nightmare and Im glad to be out of it but desperate for it to be a distant memory.

Every day that goes by that we dont speak (thats everyday and I'll never speak to him again) it gets easier.

My clarity is coming back, my tears are more few and far between and I feel some hope returning.

I wont be looking back or living in false hope any more.

I hope you are healing.

I know it feels like it takes forever and maybe it does. Im only just at the start...never in the past did I believe the goodbyes were forever. This time I know...so Im not sure how long the road is to feel normal and whole again, but Im in it for the long haul now.

I want to be free forever this time.

Chin up Adoraxx.

[Ophelia25]

Every day that goes by that we dont speak (thats everyday and I'll never speak to him again) it gets easier.

 

How long until this happens? That every day is easier? I'm hoping for that so much.

 

Thanks for being there, y'all. I haven't determined yet how much it helps, but I know it's better than pouring my heart out to him only to be ignored.

[Ophelia25]

It was about this time two weeks ago that he declared we needed "time apart." We have exchanged maybe ten words since then.

 

I'm not an ounce less miserable now than I was two weeks ago, but I just keep trying to tell myself that if I can think of other people more than myself then maybe it won't hurt so much. Yes, I need to attend to ME, that's one of the lessons I keep reading on here, but attending to ME right now is too confusing and I just feel...bad. So, I'm trying to think about me needing to try make my husband happier, and him needing to make his family happier. And trying not to think about the REASONS for what's happening - thinking instead about the results that may come from it.

 

Maybe he is suffering as much as I am, but is doing it anyway because he knows that's the right choice. If that's the case, good for him. Maybe he's a coward and feeling guilty and hiding from me. If so, he's sending a clear message. Maybe he is a jerk and just can't take our relationship being more than sexual, and this is his way of letting me know. If that's true, then I certainly don't want him. I'm trying to recognize that no matter what HIS thinking is about this, that my best move is to let him pull away, even to help him. I hope that's what my silence is doing for him, even though it's one of the hardest things I've ever done. He doesn't want to or need to hear any more of my attempts to reason through our idiocy. And every hour that goes by that he doesn't say anything to me is another accomplishment for both of us. Yay, us.

[Adoraxx]

I hope your doing ok friend.

Im looking forward to the days and times I do not think of him at ALL.

I KNOW those days are coming, I just hope they arent too far off.

Its one big nightmare and Im glad to be out of it but desperate for it to be a distant memory.

Every day that goes by that we dont speak (thats everyday and I'll never speak to him again) it gets easier.

My clarity is coming back, my tears are more few and far between and I feel some hope returning.

I wont be looking back or living in false hope any more.

I hope you are healing.

I know it feels like it takes forever and maybe it does. Im only just at the start...never in the past did I believe the goodbyes were forever. This time I know...so Im not sure how long the road is to feel normal and whole again, but Im in it for the long haul now.

I want to be free forever this time.

Chin up Adoraxx.

 

Thanks privategal, it warmed my heart to read what you wrote. Loved what you said about not living in false hope anymore and also about the hope returning (the real hope... for a better life without them). I'm just at the start too... NC pretty much began in September 2015, but I had a few run-ins after that and he was icy cold towards me. I can't say I'm feeling any better but hopefully the day will come where I feel at least a little bit better, and I hope the same for you and Ophelia and all the others that are struggling

 

Hugs!!

[privategal]

How long until this happens? That every day is easier? I'm hoping for that so much.

 

Thanks for being there, y'all. I haven't determined yet how much it helps, but I know it's better than pouring my heart out to him only to be ignored.

 

I say dont rush it. My fear for you is he has every channel to waltz right back in if he chooses. I hope soon you will make that choice for him by taking away all access to you. Thats when the false hope ends my love!! You are going to be ok. I am ok. Its weird. Xo

[Ophelia25]

Just a quick update, nothing earth-shattering. He traveled last week, and therefore was alone enough that he wanted to talk to me. I obliged, but felt very different and guarded. He was the same. He didn't really talk much about his two-week silence, whether he had gained anything from our brief "time apart" (whatever), or what he intended to do. He asked if I still wanted to talk to him. I said, "Of course." He said I hadn't really been saying much to him or responding when he sent me things. I said that I was trying to respect his request for time apart and that I didn't want to increase his stress level. He said, "what about your stress level?" and I responded that I didn't feel that my stress needed to be his responsibility and it was unfair of me to make it so. He sighed, and then we just kind of chatted for awhile. He was same old person, flirty, silly, bad speller. He did ask for pics and "a show" and so on. I said I was not even tempted to, and that I would have no trouble saying no to that for awhile, as he had asked.

 

As expected, the next few days I felt enormously better. "Hit" received, affair high back, wanted again, exceedingly happy. Excited that he wanted me again and proud that I was able to chat with him and not give in to his dumbass requests. Of course, I know it's all crap. And he has gone quiet again now that he is home, as I knew he would, and I miss him again and feel kinda cruddy. Not sobbing miserable life is over, just, "here we go again" cruddy. A little confused that I feel less desperate/happy we talked and defeated at the same time, because of course, it's cyclical and I will go down again shortly. I am baffled by how like addiction this is. I mean, I know that it IS an addiction, but it's so strange that attraction and attention are chemical boosters just as drugs are.

 

Since I have issues with anxiety and depression, and am on meds, is it possible that if I had enough meds, I wouldn't need the A anymore? Like I could get the chemicals so right that I wouldn't crave that boost?

 

I don't know what's next. My guess is that he will go dark for another week or two until he travels again (he has to travel once a month). I will get increasingly more sad and desperate and lonely and frantic until I can't stand it, then he'll contact me and I'll be so happy to hear from him that I'll forget to be angry that I've spent the last couple of weeks in total hell. This is no way to live. But, oddly, I still feel...I don't know, hopeful. Not hopeful in the sense of getting to continue our relationship, I don't think it can work this way, but hopeful that I'm going to learn to deal with it soon. I feel a little better being able to (mostly) resist his selfish demands, and I'm kind of looking forward to my therapy appointment.

 

It's still an awful mess, and I don't think I feel much different. But I do feel determined to learn how to stop depending on him for happiness, because he cannot possibly succeed. Progress? Not really. But...something. A subtle shift, maybe a beginning.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Ophelia25

[Ophelia25]

I feel a little lame just talking to myself on here, but perhaps, being fairly new, my posts aren't particularly controversial or pitiful or of any great concern. Im just going to kind of view it as a journal and a way to talk to someone, anyone, about things that I would normally try to vent (in vain) to the AP.

 

Today is his 20th wedding anniversary. I am not sure why I've been tempted all day to look at her updates and see the fake gushing I love him so much crap that I am sure will be there. He did talk to me briefly this morning. I'm still trying to be...friendly but unobliging. He actually said I should video a shower for him for an anniversary present - what a dick thing to say, really! I did not, of course.

 

But it does bug me that she's spending a lovely night with presents and dinner and romance and it's so screwed up. I don't think it is to her. She knows about me, and she hates t. But she also knows he chooses her, at least enough that he is still with her and making repeated half hearted attempts to wrest himself from my evil clutches. Which is such a crock, every time he tries to go away, I let him and I do not attempt to talk to him.. I just also let him come back.

 

He said he was going to lunch today and I said, "I hope it's romantical." He said he was alone but that I could save the sarcasm for the dinner later. I said then I'd just be trying to think of other things and gloating just a little that I still had 5 years on her, even though our "anniversary" was kind of a joke.

 

I just hate the dishonesty. I've always been the worst liar in the world. In fact, if I had to hide all this from my husband I know it wouldn't have happened, I'm that awful at lying. I just want to throw it all out there in the open and see what happens. The problem , I think, is that if I did that, my husband would want me to stay. His wife would want him to go. I'd want to go and the AP would want to stay. Nope, there is no "win." Actually, are there any on this forum who do have a happy ending? Some of those recovering seem to be determined they will get there soon. And that what they have now is so much better than before. Really? Do we always regret affairs? Are you glad they happened? I don't regret mine yet. Even if it's mostly over, I think it is. I am not sad for the love and passion that I thought I'd never feel again, even if it is chemical and fake. After feeling unwanted for many years, feeling wanted has been worth it so far. I regret the hurt that I have caused and that I feel, I really do. But I'm not sorry I got to feel the highs. Maybe that means I'm really terrible.

[Adoraxx]

I feel a little lame just talking to myself on here, but perhaps, being fairly new, my posts aren't particularly controversial or pitiful or of any great concern. Im just going to kind of view it as a journal and a way to talk to someone, anyone, about things that I would normally try to vent (in vain) to the AP.

 

Today is his 20th wedding anniversary. I am not sure why I've been tempted all day to look at her updates and see the fake gushing I love him so much crap that I am sure will be there. He did talk to me briefly this morning. I'm still trying to be...friendly but unobliging. He actually said I should video a shower for him for an anniversary present - what a dick thing to say, really! I did not, of course.

 

But it does bug me that she's spending a lovely night with presents and dinner and romance and it's so screwed up. I don't think it is to her. She knows about me, and she hates t. But she also knows he chooses her, at least enough that he is still with her and making repeated half hearted attempts to wrest himself from my evil clutches. Which is such a crock, every time he tries to go away, I let him and I do not attempt to talk to him.. I just also let him come back.

 

He said he was going to lunch today and I said, "I hope it's romantical." He said he was alone but that I could save the sarcasm for the dinner later. I said then I'd just be trying to think of other things and gloating just a little that I still had 5 years on her, even though our "anniversary" was kind of a joke.

 

I just hate the dishonesty. I've always been the worst liar in the world. In fact, if I had to hide all this from my husband I know it wouldn't have happened, I'm that awful at lying. I just want to throw it all out there in the open and see what happens. The problem , I think, is that if I did that, my husband would want me to stay. His wife would want him to go. I'd want to go and the AP would want to stay. Nope, there is no "win." Actually, are there any on this forum who do have a happy ending? Some of those recovering seem to be determined they will get there soon. And that what they have now is so much better than before. Really? Do we always regret affairs? Are you glad they happened? I don't regret mine yet. Even if it's mostly over, I think it is. I am not sad for the love and passion that I thought I'd never feel again, even if it is chemical and fake. After feeling unwanted for many years, feeling wanted has been worth it so far. I regret the hurt that I have caused and that I feel, I really do. But I'm not sorry I got to feel the highs. Maybe that means I'm really terrible.

 

Dear Ophelia, you're not terrible for feeling like you enjoyed the highs. I think I enjoyed the highs too although the lows were so horrible and that's why I wish I had never given in. I wonder if I'll ever feel better and if I'll ever stop missing him. Even though he was mean to me so many times, I still miss being in his arms .

 

Interesting that he's busy celebrating his 20 year anniversary. My xMM is doing the same this year!! It makes me so mad that your MM even said that you should send him a video of you showering as an anniversary present. What an @ss!! It's also painful when the MM acts as if he has to wrestle himself from your evil clutches: that's how my MM acts too!!!

 

Also, what you said about your husband ... and him wanting you to stay... and MM's wife wanting him to go & MM wanting to stay: same here!

 

I hope you'll have a better day today. Sending you much love,

 

Adoraxx

[privategal]

I dont know Ophelia, your maybe in denial to yourself as your post is titled 'stages of greif' and here you are saying overall you have no regrets.

Your depressed you have to watch them celebrate their 20th...he seemed to bascally gloat about his dinner date, he insensitively asked you for a video present for HIM AND HIS WIFE WHO HE CHOOSES, and you dont regret this?

It seems your whole life is a stage of grief love, and it seems like you've just given in.

Theres so much sadness in your post yet I feel your just thinking this is what my life is and I accept it.

Im not really even sure how to help.

But I honestly feel you should let both men go. Your stuck. I cant imagine you want this forever like this?

[Ophelia25]

I dont know Ophelia, your maybe in denial to yourself as your post is titled 'stages of greif' and here you are saying overall you have no regrets.

Your depressed you have to watch them celebrate their 20th...he seemed to bascally gloat about his dinner date, he insensitively asked you for a video present for HIM AND HIS WIFE WHO HE CHOOSES, and you dont regret this?

It seems your whole life is a stage of grief love, and it seems like you've just given in.

Theres so much sadness in your post yet I feel your just thinking this is what my life is and I accept it.

Im not really even sure how to help.

But I honestly feel you should let both men go. Your stuck. I cant imagine you want this forever like this?

 

Thank you for this.

 

I suppose I'm just trying to work through everything. The highs and lows when dealing with people you cant help caring about coming and going are pretty intense. When he cuts me off, I definitely feel as if I'm hit with grief of the most awful kind. I just want to talk to him sometimes. That sounds so ridiculous and pitiful, but when I have even a little reassurance that he is thinking of me and wondering how I am, I feel completely equipped to go about my life as usual, even pretty happily. It sucks that my more or less content marriage was disrupted by this ghost from the past, but I also feel like he's always been there, lurking in my subconscious, kind of torturing me, but it's more out in the open now. At least, it's something I'm aware of and trying to deal with.

 

In some aspects I guess I have given in, only because I'm really not sure how to approach things. I have certainly relented all thoughts of us "ending up together," regardless of how we feel. He has shown me again and again that he not only doesn't want to, but even if he did, it wouldn't be because of his love and concern for me. It would be because he couldn't control himself and we got caught and he got thrown out. I know with certainly that's not where I want my life to go.

 

That said, I really don't know how to even begin trying to extract him from my thoughts, if that is what I need to be doing at this point. People on here keep saying you have to WANT to. You have to be READY - how do I get there? It seems he's done the whole list of things that should get me to that point, and yet I don't feel like I'm there. He does everything with such...indecision, leaves so many possibilities, goes back and forth, hot and cold, that I will think for a minute, okay, he's so done with me, I can just walk away, and then a few days later, he's back and wanting me again and chatting like old times.

 

As far as regret, I definitely have many related to the situation. While I don't regret being able to feel these feelings all again, to be able to acknowledge and let out all the stuff I buried when we broke up when we were 19, to learn about and think about my mistakes and his mistakes and know that we still love and want each other, to talk through with him all the blame and hiding and wrong decisions, I do regret that it had to happen this way. I meant my marriage vows, and I love my husband. I made those vows because I was assured that the MM was out forever, there was no chance of reunion. He even came to my wedding with his two new babies and all was well. I had no idea that all this old stuff would resurface, that he'd spend years pummeling me with his regrets and wishes for things to be different, and promises that he loved me, and requests to run off together and start a new life, and then that he'd pull away after opening me back up again to all of it, and just give me bits and pieces and want sex. And that my husband would think that's the hottest thing ever and want to talk about it in vivid detail any time we are intimate. I don't know how to help me, either. Ha, this last paragraph sounded so, "It's not my fault" and I know it totally is. I made the choices. Or...failed to make the choices. And I do have to own up to that.

 

I guess I'm just trying to figure out what I can do in the meantime while I try to figure out how to extract myself from the mess I've made. No, I don't want forever to be like this, because the MM will keep up the coming and going and each time, I feel a little more jaded and angry and used. There must be a breaking point coming up, I just feel like there's something wrong with me for not reaching it yet. I think, though, that things are changing, very slowly. Too slowly. But I know he's not who I really want to be with, because he clearly doesn't really want to be with me. I know that my feelings are based on fantasy, and I know that I have an unwholesome addiction to the attention he gives me. I"m hoping that I can use those things to make progress.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Ophelia25

[heartwhole]

I don't have a very good understanding of addiction but I do wonder if treating this as an addiction would be helpful to you. Have you said if you are in IC?

 

I have come on here as a BW but I can relate in that I have always carried a torch for my high school boyfriend. And like you, I cannot lie, so I have always been honest about this with my husband. I do believe that there's something about a first or early love, someone you bonded with when you had not put up walls and had your whole life in front of you, that is hard to replicate with someone you meet later in life. But I have always known that while, yes, we will always be attracted to one another and feel warmly towards each other, that it's not real, and we would not be a good match in the real world, which is why we didn't work out in the first place. I can't imagine if my husband wanted me to be with other men. That adds quite a layer to your story, doesn't it. I'm glad that you don't have to worry about deceiving your husband, but I still wonder how you navigate your marriage with that door always being open.

 

You seem to be making some good progress in recognizing that this cycle is going to continue forever, up down, up down, until one of you puts a stop to it. I don't envy you the position you're in. I think you won't be able to put a stop to it until you get to a point where the pain you feel from continuing the relationship is greater than the pain you'll feel from cutting yourself off from your high. In anticipation of that time, I encourage you to focus on being as healthy and kind to yourself as you can. Reduce the stress and drama in the rest of your life so you can throw all your strength at this when the time comes.

[privategal]

Just sending hugs and support Ophelia. What do I know, but I do know and empathize that it hurts. Its ok to be confused and I just hope the answers find you in time.

I saw from another thread the nc advice was starting to exasperate you.

I get it, we are not all on the same level and its exhausting hearing it preached when its not for you. Feel your feelings, do what works for you.

Did you ever have a heart to heart with hubby since he knows and tell him you dont know whether to stay or go?

He may help with the male perspective you need. Vacation would be nice too! Keep going. Its ok.

[Ophelia25]

I just wanted to give a quick update for those who are following and have been helpful.

 

I had my first therapy session yesterday, and since I'm not really an expert, I'm not sure how it went, but I disclosed as much as I could, and it was difficult and awkward, but she was kind and insightful.

 

She suggested that we focus first on the chemical issues - the depression and meds and so on, and that I do some of the things I know I should be, like manage my sleep better and do minimal exercise. Then, we will try some Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to help me redirect my negative thinking and despair. Finally, we will look at marriage and relationships and affair and addiction and so on.

 

It will likely be a long haul, but she was positive, and it helped me feel a little less hopeless. Maybe if I can get control over my body, my head will follow and it will be easier to extract myself from all this.

 

As far as AP goes, it's still...the same, but different. He is as flirtatious and demanding as ever, and I'm still excited by the attention. But I'm also feeling really baffled at how selfish he is in his communication with me. I think he feels like he's being...what's the word, like...dominant, you know, like I'll think it's sexy that he is trying to dictate what he wants from me. And honestly, I do think it is a little, but I'm just not inclined to oblige because it seems so completely uncaring. No, I don't see total reality yet, because I know I'm still all wrapped up in the actual feelings that I have for him. But, I think recognizing what little concern he seems to have for me is a step in the right direction. I feel less like he's the perfect wonderful boyfriend that got away when I was 19 and stupid, and a little more like he's a desperate, hornball, middle-aged dude who messed up his marriage and doesn't know how to fix it, so he just tries to play with me instead. I still love him immensely, but I also am working to see him as he is instead of focusing on how he makes me feel.

 

I don't know where anything is going, but I'm a little less sad, and hoping to focus for awhile on getting my body and brain in shape to figure it out.

[Dancewithme]

What a positive step for you. It will take work, but you can do it. It sounds like the fog is clearing as well. Good luck and stay strong.

[Adoraxx]

I just wanted to give a quick update for those who are following and have been helpful.

 

I had my first therapy session yesterday, and since I'm not really an expert, I'm not sure how it went, but I disclosed as much as I could, and it was difficult and awkward, but she was kind and insightful.

 

She suggested that we focus first on the chemical issues - the depression and meds and so on, and that I do some of the things I know I should be, like manage my sleep better and do minimal exercise. Then, we will try some Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to help me redirect my negative thinking and despair. Finally, we will look at marriage and relationships and affair and addiction and so on.

 

It will likely be a long haul, but she was positive, and it helped me feel a little less hopeless. Maybe if I can get control over my body, my head will follow and it will be easier to extract myself from all this.

 

As far as AP goes, it's still...the same, but different. He is as flirtatious and demanding as ever, and I'm still excited by the attention. But I'm also feeling really baffled at how selfish he is in his communication with me. I think he feels like he's being...what's the word, like...dominant, you know, like I'll think it's sexy that he is trying to dictate what he wants from me. And honestly, I do think it is a little, but I'm just not inclined to oblige because it seems so completely uncaring. No, I don't see total reality yet, because I know I'm still all wrapped up in the actual feelings that I have for him. But, I think recognizing what little concern he seems to have for me is a step in the right direction. I feel less like he's the perfect wonderful boyfriend that got away when I was 19 and stupid, and a little more like he's a desperate, hornball, middle-aged dude who messed up his marriage and doesn't know how to fix it, so he just tries to play with me instead. I still love him immensely, but I also am working to see him as he is instead of focusing on how he makes me feel.

 

I don't know where anything is going, but I'm a little less sad, and hoping to focus for awhile on getting my body and brain in shape to figure it out.

 

I think you're definitely moving in the right direction, Ophelia! Step by step is all you can do, and that way you'll get there. It's a good thing that you're no longer just seeing him as the 'wonderful boyfriend that got away when you were 19' but that you're starting to see him for what he really is. I also understand what you mean with saying that he is acting dominant because he thinks you like that... My xMM has done that too, and it's very unattractive (especially in the way that he did it). Like you said, it shows how uncaring he really is.

 

I also hate it how they're just playing with us so it's a good thing that your eyes are opened to that as well!!

 

Hugs,

Adoraxx

[stilltrying16]

Hi Ophelia, I haven't posted on your thread before, but I've been reading your posts and sending warm thoughts your way. Hope you don't mind my jumping in. Just wanted to ask how you were doing?

 

I agree with everyone who's posted that you are moving forward- it's so clear that you are. Once in a while I do get the impression that you think you should be farther along than you are. So I was wondering why. Isn't it ok for healing to happen at its own pace?

 

Sounds like the IC experience has been very positive and I hope it continues that way. Hugs.

[Ophelia25]

Thanks so much for your kind words. I'm...ok. I have pretty good days and sadder empty feeling ones, but I'm trying really hard to just deal with one at a time. Today was a fairly sad one. It's funny, I have mostly resolved to just stay neutral when the AP does something that makes me feel, well, anything. To just try to be courteous, and kind, but...unruffled. It seems he is trying to do the same, at least the past couple of days, he changes with the weather. It's hard, and yesterday he asked me for help with a writing thing and I gave some quick advice and he went silent and I got kind of angry. So I texted a, "Oh, and, you're welcome, glad I could help" and immediately felt like a failure for letting him know I was irritated. Every day I find 50 things I want to say to him, some angry and stinging, some pitiful and desperate, some loving and sappy. And I just...don't. I don't ignore him, I respond when he texts me. And to be honest, when he is a little flirty, I respond in kind, but with a degree of distance. I just am really trying to hold emotion back because no matter what I hit him with, it seems to backfire. But I think about it constantly and I guess that's what makes me feel like I am so far from where I want to be. While I am making great strides in admitting to myself what kind of person he really seems to be and recognizing that all the love in the world can't make him the kind of person I imagined he was, I still feel so...entangled.

 

I hate that the slow understanding of the situation doesn't really change anything I feel about him. It just helps me see better what I should probably do about it. So, a good thing, but I feel ashamed of myself for not being more resolved and determined. For still wanting him just as much and being so sad about it. I am, however doing what the therapist said, focusing on eating right and daily exercise, and I think I feel a gentle lift in spirits. I'm just still plagued with a head full of HIM about half of every minute, which makes me think I'm constantly moving backwards as well. I miss him dreadfully, and he's not even all the way gone. But, I feel like he may as well be because of how thoroughly hurt I am. Like I can't go back, but can't really go forward quickly enough.

 

I'll try to update as interesting things happen. Maybe I can be helpful to others. I know just reading on here the last few weeks has helped me.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Ophelia25

[stilltrying16]

You strike me as being introspective, analytic & thoughtful, and so there's just no doubt that you will get to where you need to go. But I also feel that these qualities have gotten entangled with a general sense you have of having failed yourself. In real life do people close to you you say you are quick to judge yourself and can be quite impatient with yourself? That's what I sense sometimes reading your posts.

 

I think I share some of your thought patterns though at the moment I am not trying to fight a major addiction the way you might be. (And as heartwhole said, affairs could be thought of as addictions.) But I don't know you, and could just be projecting.

 

I know I use shame and guilt to punish myself or to goad myself into better behavior. But I've slowly learned that self-shaming or guilt can backfire. Can we find ways to free ourselves from them? Or at least refuse to see them as the end point and final destination. Is there a way to move through them or past them toward nurturing ourselves and others? Of course that's far from easy.

 

I believe that we should actively tend to ourselves the way we would tend to someone we cared for. We need to send compassion out into the universe, without forgetting that the universe includes us too. I really admire your commitment, your strength, and your integrity & I know they will get you through this. But what I don't see is a whole lot of compassion for yourself in your posts- while I do see compassion and empathy for others. You are very hard on yourself IMO.

 

And here's a very tentative thought. You said the MM made you feel a certain way. As you come to see his limitations, you miss the way he used to make you feel. You identify him as the source of those feelings, but is he really? I think what you could be missing is not him, but the feelings he used to inspire in you and the person *you* were around him. I hope I didn't misstate that. Positive reinforcement, compassion, would all require that you don't block those feelings from your life forever, but that you find a different route to those feelings & to the person that you enjoyed being around him. You deserve to feel vibrant and alive every second of every day. But that feeling doesn't originate in him at all. It originates in you. Is there a way to find it in yourself- without relying on anyone else? Easier said than done...but still, it's something to ponder. I'm speaking as much to myself as to you-

Edited April 21, 2016 by stilltrying16

[Ophelia25]

"Positive reinforcement, compassion, would all require that you don't block those feelings from your life forever, but that you find a different route to those feelings & to the person that you enjoyed being around him."

 

I like this. And I hope I can figure it out. I suppose that might be why I'm so resistant to NC, even if it is the "best" or "only" way to do it right. To me, it's just blocking all these feelings that are still there, filling me up, and having absolutely no outlet for them is, right now, unbearable. Maybe if I learn a new route, it could become bearable. And I'm trying not to be so awful to myself, but I also don't want to shift the blame for all of it onto others, because I only have control over me - well, I'd like to have control over me. I got myself into this mess by letting myself want/love/desire a MM, and no matter how one looks at that, it's wrong. I was wrong, and the feelings I have are wrong. It's so hard to feel nice things about myself when I have messed up so royally.

 

I just wrote to him a little. I tried to keep it short. It's been a couple of months since I tried (in vain) to pour out my heart and soul, only to be mostly ignored until he felt lonely and horny. I'm not expecting it to do anything, it rarely does except sometimes elicit an "I'm sorry I'm an ass" from him. But I wanted to say something and I've been staying quiet about all of it for such a long time waiting to see if anything would happen, and realizing that he's actually rather content to have me quiet and only talking to him about what he wants when he wants it. I want my silence to be troubling to him, not satisfying, and that's not working. So, here's the main part of what I said. Perhaps a stupid thing to do, but this whole everything is stupid.

 

I have okay days and less than okay days, but since the last time you tried to tell me you didn’t want me anymore I’ve been working to develop a quiet resolve to let it go. What I have inside of me to give you is far more complex and complicated and emotional than what you want from me or what you want to give me, and I just have to accept that and try to move on. While I’m glad that you like me enough to try to keep talking to me, and I still grin and blush like a teenager any time you give me a crumb of attention, I have recognized that it will probably never be more than that again. Though you may swing like a pendulum between the sex and the guilt of wanting me, the affection you once had for me and the concern for me as a friend and as someone you love(d) is simply gone. I don’t know if you still have it deep in there somewhere and just are now an expert at hiding it or if it’s actually disintegrated over the years and sex is all that’s left, but I certainly don’t see it. And my pointing that out, begging for attention, getting angry, telling you I miss you or love you or any of that, will not matter. So, I’m trying super hard not to try.

[stilltrying16]

Gaaah, I wrote up a big long reply and it got blipped. Probably just as well! It didn't need to be that long.

 

Thanks for replying, Ophelia. I hope it helped you to write the letter to MM and I hope MM reads it in the way you would want him to. I wish so much that you will get to the point when you don't care about how MM is feeling at all. Just take your time- don't feel bad if you backslide now and then. The first time you think "meh" when he pops up in your mind- please come here and post and we'll all celebrate together!

 

I apologize if I've got this wrong, but did you say you were depressed (or diagnosed as depressed)? And if so, does MM know that- or does he at least sense it? If he does, then the mindfu#k games he's playing are all the more cruel. IMO

 

You mentioned your IC/psychiatrist- I'm glad you found your first visit so promising. After resisting it for a long time I do accept that chemicals in our brain a) can be out of balance b) can directly impact our state of mind and c) can be set right with medication. After much skepticism, I did go on wellbutrin a couple of years ago, and it has made a difference. I hope your experience continues to be positive. It will make a difference for you as well- it might make all the difference.

 

Ophelia, I think you write beautifully. I was curious: has writing ever been something that you could throw yourself into, focus completely, almost lose yourself while doing? Maybe it bodes well for recovery- having something in one's life (human or not!) that is all-absorbing as anything can be- as even MM is now. Something to turn to with all one's focus when the time is right. I know it slowly got me out of a pretty bad phase in my life, and I don't even think of myself as a writer.

 

To pare it down: imo MM is a means to an end. The means is damaging. But the end is worthwhile and must never be abandoned. It will be draining if you stop just at trying to remove the means- it's a negative action, taking something out of one's life. Simultaneously putting something back in its place is crucial. Pursuing the end with different means would be the goal. And the end, the way I visualize it for myself at least, is feeling more alive every day.

 

I see this got quite long too- apologies! I'll be sending good thoughts your way. Hugs

Edited April 22, 2016 by stilltrying16

[Ophelia25]

Thank you. Beautiful thoughts, and much for me to ponder.

 

Yes, have had depression/anxiety issues for years, although I'm fairly high functioning. I take a very low dose of Cymbalta, and it helps enough to keep me even, but situational things can throw me into a pretty major funk - obsessive thinking and feeling out of control (as things like affairs will inspire) feed my misery and I will have bouts of weepy darkness, particularly anytime MM chooses to ignore me for a few days. I used to complain to him about it, but it just made me feel worse. He knows, and sometimes says he thinks he is a factor, but it doesn't seem to concern him enough to stop the back and forth. He hasn't said anything about what I wrote, but I put it on a blog that he only checks occasionally and I rarely hear from him Fri-Sun, so I wasn't really expecting any reaction. I'm not sure if I feel better or not. Writing helps me, but writing to him has never really proved fruitful. He admires my writing and every once in awhile I'll say something powerful enough to elicit some discussion from him, but it's rare and generally I feel like I wasted my efforts.

 

I do have a writing-related career, and from 2007-2014 I immersed myself in writing a dissertation. It was long and difficult and cathartic, but when all was done and I checked that off my accomplishments list and added PhD to my name, I felt, well, nothing, really. I mean, it's kinda cool I did that. I learned a lot about some interesting but largely irrelevant stuff. But I'm still a childless (mostly okay with this, sometimes bothers me a little), bored, work-at-home housewife who feels quite confused a lot of the time. I feel like there should be some great "thing" out there to replace the hole he has left/will leave in me, but I can't figure out what that thing is and how to go about looking for it. I probably should do some more writing exploration. It's so hard to focus, though, with these bombs in my head.

 

I think you offer some pretty sound advice. It makes me think. And I enjoy your writing as well. Thank you for thinking of me.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Ophelia25

[stilltrying16]

Thanks- if any of those longs posts help, that's great. I wish I could take my own advice. I'm fighting a different kind of demon- not related to current infidelity or relationships in general, I guess- but overwhelming. I need to break my circular thinking. It's out of control.

 

Ophelia, I have to ask you: would you ever behave towards anyone the way he's behaving towards you.... knowing you are depressed? It seems outrageous to me. Is there anything I'm missing here? If you saw this cat and mouse thing being done to someone you care for, how would you feel? I'm asking this seriously.

 

When you write do you always have him in mind as a possible reader? Do you have other audiences in mind? Can you redirect your blog to a wholly different type of reader, one who's reading it looking for something quite different from MM?

 

Your experience with this MM is a little different from the others- in that you've known him longer and in varying circumstances. Despite that, though, his behavior is not all that different from that of other MMs. Interesting.

 

We do have some things in common, as I thought- I'll follow your thread- I'm so sorry at your pain.

Edited April 22, 2016 by stilltrying16

[Ophelia25]

I haven't updated in awhile because there's so little to say. I'm a writer, but I know I'm overwhelmed by lengthy posts on here, so I'll try to keep it short.

 

I spent about 2.5 weeks away, visiting my friends from my teenage years. The AP no longer lives there, but has monthly business trips nearby and our paths could have crossed. In fact, he was waiting near the airport when I flew home for me to message him to come and pick me up and take me with him on his trip. The idea was lovely, but I don't think I was really tempted. My husband said I could if I wanted. I'd have been too nervous. I avoided him. Therapist said that was a good thing. I guess. He was kind of jerky afterward, telling me that I worry too much about our "friends" and others and don't just jump in and do stuff. He kept telling me that I "owed him" for ditching him and should therefore show him things and help him get off. Sounds like a real winner, no? But, at the same time, being wanted is so exhilarating when it happens so rarely to me, I can't help but feel flattered, even though it's horrible.

 

Have been to therapist 3 times now. Some of her advice is helpful about taking care of myself and sleeping better and exercising. But she just keeps reminding me that I can take control of the situation and do what I want - the problem is I don't know what I want, and she says I have to figure that out. I haven't known what I wanted for 25 years, why would I be able to start now? I think I just want to try to help other people be happy, since I don't know what makes me happy, or maybe I can't have what makes me happy. But, people want different things, and I can't really make them all happy, I know that.

 

He's currently on a trip with his wife, accompanying her to a conference. I hate it, because I will likely not hear from him, even though I know that he has long stretches of time without her. It's like he thinks, oh, well if I'm on a trip with her, I can pretend for a few days that my life is normal, that I'm not stringing this other girl along on the side for when I'm horny. And I want to be angry, but I just feel alone and hurt instead. Which makes me angry at myself instead of him.

 

Anyway, I've been absent for several weeks, and have lost track of everyone else's stories, but I'm still thinking about the people on here and hoping people are getting by. I'm wavering on how helpful this is because everyone here is just as stuck as I am, except the ones who are successfully in NC and are great cheerleaders, but so much stronger than I am. But I'll check back from time to time. Knowing others deal with the same kind of stuff does help some.

[lemondrop21]

It's like he thinks, oh, well if I'm on a trip with her, I can pretend for a few days that my life is normal, that I'm not stringing this other girl along on the side for when I'm horny.

Yeah, that's how I would feel when MM would travel. It helped me a lot to adopt this attitude myself when I travel (which is frequently). When you travel, do you initiate contact with him? Sometimes it can help you feel like you're taking your power back, and getting back in touch with your own, independent self.