Larryville Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 In some ways, as I have gotten older it is easier to spot incompatibility. That is the difficult thing for me, my personality type is one that is hyper focused on things like flaws… However on the flip side I knew in order to have any chance at a solid harmonious relationship in my late years I had to tweak my own flaws or red flags. I’m a seriously opinionated bastard… Don’t have a lot of patience or tolerance… I’m a pretty prejudice dude… Don’t do well with messiness or deal with someone who is not organized… I don’t like being in crowded places… ect My point is not just about the flaws of the partner, are we honest about our own flaws and are we willing to adjust our own behavior and work to be better…. Compromise. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gaeta Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 When I met my current bf, finding something about him that was incompatible was my main objective....poor guy. I'm on that train. Single 12 years and considered a strong woman who doesn't need anyone. Spent the last 4 years online dating collecting disappointments which made me really tough and detached. Now I have been dating this new man for 3 months and still can't find him a damn flaw to complain about !! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Lady2163 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 That is the difficult thing for me, my personality type is one that is hyper focused on things like flaws… However on the flip side I knew in order to have any chance at a solid harmonious relationship in my late years I had to tweak my own flaws or red flags. I’m a seriously opinionated bastard… Don’t have a lot of patience or tolerance… I’m a pretty prejudice dude… Don’t do well with messiness or deal with someone who is not organized… I don’t like being in crowded places… ect My point is not just about the flaws of the partner, are we honest about our own flaws and are we willing to adjust our own behavior and work to be better…. Compromise. I almost think it is too late for me. In the last ten years I've gone from poor to upper middle class. Money can't buy happiness, but it sure has made me tolerate a whole lot less. I may be chubby, but I still bring a lot to the table. I'm not one to give third chances and even second chances are getting rarer. Financially stability and solvency has made me a whole lot less dependent on men - well, people in general. I don't deal well with laziness, self imposed helplessness or overspending. I would also describe myself as more rigid than I was ten years ago. When I meet a man my age who has drama, addiction or poor financial skills I'm not inclined to stick around. If he divorced 15 years ago, kids are grown or he didn't see much of them after the divorce, only provided the bare minimum for child support, there's a pretty good chance he was blowing that money somewhere. Not all men and I'm speaking for my geographic region, where it is possible to have a job making $15 an hour a living fairly well. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 I'm talking about an ex here, but he seemed so sincere early on, and then I think cooled off on me because he discussed me with one of his more conservative male friends, so then I knew he wasn't sure of himself. There was a lot of passion there and so we'd reunite and then break up tearfully again and during one of those I learned he didn't have any better sense than to sleep with my oldest friend. So then I thought he was the devil incarnate. Then I ended up working in an office with him every day for 10 years and furthered my education. He married a girl who looked good on paper because she had taken cooking classes (yes -- and he still thinks she looked good on paper) but failed to see she was a psycho, which was apparent to me upon first meeting. His conventional friend cheered him on. She cheated on him with one of my friends shortly thereafter, a past work acquaintance of his, and they married until she got sent to prison for credit card fraud and identity theft on her own family as well as others. So then I knew (this is now about 5 years into knowing him) that he was a bit shallow, as well as extremely low on insight into other people and simply naive. It was about then I began to hurt less about him banging my best friend, which he apologized for a couple years after, having again talked to a friend about it and said he didn't realize what a big deal it would be at the time. Again, naive and not much insight. The only time he said he loved me, he took it back. It took me about 30 years to figure out that he did love me but wouldn't say unless he intended to follow it up with commitment, which he couldn't do because he wanted a family and I didn't. (We both had exciting parallel careers). He caused me two big traumas in my life and I carry a lot of anger about it still, but when I worked through it, which took a very long time, I realized a lot of what he did was naivety and his gullibility, not meanness. He believed whatever people told him and wasn't a good judge of character and let some people derail his life and cause him to hurt others who truly cared. He and I are occasional friends now and he and his wife and I are going to a concert next month. Link to post Share on other sites
Larryville Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Financially stability and solvency has made me a whole lot less dependent on men… Trying not to get too off topic but… This is the thing about later dating, let’s say age 45 plus generally… MOST women I came in contact with in OLD basically did not care about being with any dude, did not necessarily care if they were in a relationship. I like more successful, educated, stronger more self-confident, independent women. The thing is those women usually have busier fuller lives unlike most dudes like me, I have a laid back lifestyle. Therefore time management was a problem. So in many cases while dating I felt like I was “penciled in” (my overthinking) Now in relation to this thread the longer it took before I could get together with them all kinds of negative crap “flaw” crap (I know unfair) crept into my head. The more time you spend with your significant other, the better both of you will understand each other. Link to post Share on other sites
getsmartie Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 I personally think it takes up to a year and sometimes more to see someone's flaws. Mostly because we are still wearing our rose colored glasses plus often we are not totally honest with ourselves. It's coming up to 2 years with my bf and I see flaws now that I didn't see earlier on. Everybody has flaws, it comes down to whether those flaws are deal breaker ones. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
truth_seeker Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Just remember: EVERYONE is on their BEST behavior for 6 months 6 months?! I'll say 3 months is the max. If you're around them a lot, you should be able to gauge who they really are... unless they're a true psychopath who is good at fooling others. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 It takes longer to get to know someone who doesn't know himself. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 I'm on that train. Single 12 years and considered a strong woman who doesn't need anyone. Spent the last 4 years online dating collecting disappointments which made me really tough and detached. Now I have been dating this new man for 3 months and still can't find him a damn flaw to complain about !! Yes....you get me. I was thinking the man would mess with the flow and mojo. I have read your threads for some time and I couldn't be happier for you (G too.) Sometimes when you lose...you win. The future is unknown but it's nice to relax and enjoy the journey with a vetted, sexy man. We were fine without and now we're good with. Best to you Gaeta 2 Link to post Share on other sites
truth_seeker Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Sometimes when you lose...you win. Does this fall under: dodging a bullet? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gaeta Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 6 months?! I'll say 3 months is the max. If you're around them a lot, you should be able to gauge who they really are... unless they're a true psychopath who is good at fooling others. I agree with you that around 3-4 months the big negative stuff should have come out by then. I can't believe someone passive aggressive would be able to not be passive aggressive for 6 months and more. It's not something easily controllable. Link to post Share on other sites
Lady2163 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Trying not to get too off topic but… This is the thing about later dating, let’s say age 45 plus generally… MOST women I came in contact with in OLD basically did not care about being with any dude, did not necessarily care if they were in a relationship. I like more successful, educated, stronger more self-confident, independent women. The thing is those women usually have busier fuller lives unlike most dudes like me, I have a laid back lifestyle. Therefore time management was a problem. So in many cases while dating I felt like I was “penciled in” (my overthinking) Now in relation to this thread the longer it took before I could get together with them all kinds of negative crap “flaw” crap (I know unfair) crept into my head. The more time you spend with your significant other, the better both of you will understand each other. It is a bit off-topic and all, but this just fascinates me. Because I had the same problem, only with men. A 45 year old man may still have children under the age of 10. A 45 year old woman may have kids who are bit more self-sufficient, high school aged. I'm not looking to have my social calendar filled with kids' events. When a 45 year old man says, "my kids are my life." I tiptoe away - at warp speed. It has been years since I did OLD. I'm hoping to try it again in a few months when I move to a larger city. I found that men who couldn't meet for a cup of coffee for at least two weeks or longer were probably not dating material. Either they didn't have the time or didn't want to make the time. I could only handle so much time spent with instant messaging and back before I had a phone where you could block someone, I was choosy about giving out my phone number. I'm educated, reasonably successful and pretty independent. If I can't do it myself, I can usually pay someone to do it. But I don't want to be the lead dog in a relationship, I want a partnership and that does require someone who isn't laid back. When you say laid back I think of someone who is perfectly content with someone else making all the decisions and plans and dealing with any stress that comes from those. And in relation to the original post, those traits are pretty easy to spot early on. If I'm dating a guy and he says his washing machine is broken and he will spend all day Saturday at the laundromat, I'm going to tell him it is okay to bring a load or two over to my house. I may even (okay, probably will) help him with it. But conversely, if I say that I have to spend most of daylight Saturday doing yard work and will be too tired to go out Saturday night, that is his cue to show up with lunch and a rake in hand. Most men I run across seem to think that means Saturday is a day and night with the boys! Okay, realistically, I'm probably just going to flat out ask for help for a couple of hours if he doesn't take the hint.... Link to post Share on other sites
Larryville Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 When you say laid back I think of someone who is perfectly content with someone else making all the decisions and plans and dealing with any stress that comes from those. What I mean in my case is I don't have time constraints, my work hours are flexible, social life is flexible and not complicated, no baby daddy issues. I don't have any problems with time management. I don't mind making plans but if I do and I get well Friday night out with the girlfriends... Saturday with the grandkids, Sunday making dinner for family, Wed book club with friends... you stop asking and trying to plan. The thing is all of these "independent women" did NOT do what you stated in below paragraph: conversely, if I say that I have to spend most of daylight Saturday doing yard work and will be too tired to go out Saturday night, that is his cue to show up with lunch and a rake in hand. Most men I run across seem to think that means Saturday is a day and night with the boys! I would not have a problem helping them with whatever maybe I was a weird dude but I saw even doing something like helping with yard work as time spent together. Helped one woman create a website, another photographing her artwork for a show, redid landscape for another, yes was work and time consuming but was good couple activity to me at the time. However again the "independent" types slotted their times, they would say "I have yardwork" or they had some task or errand to run or some activity and that meant that was independent of time spent together, I'm guessing (you ladies have to verify) when it is time to be "a couple" that time was specific. When she was doing other stuff that was "her time." whether that was chores or leisure. Now to relate to the thread that is not a "flaw" but it is a time management relationship issue. What is the old saying "an idle mind..." if your significant other is always busy eventually doubt creeps in (small flaws become bigger for you to find and excuse to bolt) and in the back of your mind you will start to disconnect and look elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Does this fall under: dodging a bullet? I would say so....yep. Link to post Share on other sites
Yookie Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Generally takes me about 3 months to get a good picture of the type of person someone is. This happens faster if I have the opportunity to see them in an adverse situation. Seeing how someone reacts when things don't go their way is very telling. Link to post Share on other sites
Zapbasket Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Well, let's see.... My first serious boyfriend, I remember noticing before we started dating that he was very insecure. But then when he started pursuing me he seemed secure, confident, without being arrogant, in what he wanted and how he presented himself to me. However, that initial show of insecurity gradually crept into our relationship and it was after about 5 months of dating that he greeted me one evening with a sullen look and surly question, "Just what IS it that makes GreenCove so special?" At the time I chose to ignore the hostility underlying the question and as I asked him about his day, it came out that he'd had a bad day in his grad school lab and his experiments were going all wrong, etc. I ignored the red flag that he took his insecurity out on me. Also, in the first month or two, I remember we were lying on my bed relaxing and talking, and I rolled over and placed my hand across his chest. He flicked my hand away. I thought at the time that that was a bit cold and closed off of him. Four or five months in, we were walking down a sidewalk in Boston, hand in hand, when I exclaimed how beautiful this one birch tree was, all sheathed in ice and sparkling in the sun. He dropped my hand and started walking ahead of me with this upset look on his face. I asked, "What's wrong?" and he replied, "It's just...you love EVERYTHING!" I laughed, took his hand again, and said, "Well, isn't that a GOOD thing?" But his brow stayed furrowed and he was uncommunicative for several minutes. About 8 months in, we could only see each other on weekends due to our school schedules and had to rely on the phone to stay connected. He told me he wasn't really into talking on the phone (this was before texting took off). He backed that up by abruptly falling silent after about 15 minutes on the phone, no matter what we were talking about. He'd just shut down. Again, I thought that was pretty rigid and closed off of him--after all, I was never a fan of talking on the phone, either, but I made an exception for him because I felt it was important that we stay connected during the week. A year and a half in, he blurted out, "I'm not sure HOW I feel about you!" That really hurt--I mean, after 1.5 years, I thought, you should have some idea how you feel (we were both 26). I swept it under the rug because we had just planned a 3-week trip to Peru with his family and then I'd just bought a ticket to visit his hometown for 2 weeks after the Peru trip. If I'd broken things off with him, we'd have had to cancel everything and at the time that just seemed to be making a mountain out of a molehill. But looking back, all of these little flags were harbingers of pretty significant problems. He could not talk about feelings or communicate well, at all. He acknowledged that, and let me take the lead in our communication, and called my insistence on communication a "real relationship-saver." He had even told his sister how much he felt he was benefitting from my insistence on communication, and his sister even reached out to me for advice on how to communicate better with her boyfriend. But that coldness and insecurity he exhibited early on began also to reveal itself in resentment that I kept urging him to communicate. He began stonewalling me to "win" arguments, complained about me to all his friends while not telling ME the issues he had with me, and ended up breaking up with me after 5 years in a rather cold, heartless way. It's so obvious now that I should have let him go early on, or maybe even never dated him. I was too different from the milieu he was used to and he was too insecure in himself to embrace that. But at the time, while each of those instances niggled me deep within, it seemed only fitting at the time that I write them off as minor. I think that's the rub, and what scares me about getting involved with someone again: how do you suss out the "true self" that WILL NOT CHANGE from the whole spectrum of a person, that exhibits both good and not-so-good qualities? And how do you decide in the middle of a relationship, before the problems become insurmountable, that all signs point to this not working out and you'd best end things now before wasting more months or years of your time? I mean, in the moment, these kinds of things such as I experienced with this boyfriend rarely seem as deal-breaking as they appear in retrospect, when you're looking at this big fat relationship failure and wishing you'd gotten out sooner. Edited March 11, 2016 by GreenCove Link to post Share on other sites
GunslingerRoland Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 The problem is thinking you'll ever see someones true self. That makes a person sound so simple and easy to quantify. It's nice to imagine people that way, but we're all multi faceted beyond our own imaginations, we're capable of heroism, and horror. We're capable of being loyal and capable of being liars and cheaters. You can only see someone's true self at any one given point in time, based on the situation they are in. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gaeta Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 Greencove: Thank you very much for sharing ! wow Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gaeta Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 The problem is thinking you'll ever see someones true self. That makes a person sound so simple and easy to quantify. It's nice to imagine people that way, but we're all multi faceted beyond our own imaginations, we're capable of heroism, and horror. We're capable of being loyal and capable of being liars and cheaters. You can only see someone's true self at any one given point in time, based on the situation they are in. I am 50 now and cannot imagine under what circumstances I would cheat. I never was a cheater and can't see myself becoming one at this point in my life. I guess I am 1 step ahead of young people. When you meet someone at 20 and get married young you don't know who you'll turn out to be or who your husband or wife will turn out to be. I got married at 20 and I had no clue what woman I would become. I could have turned out a cheater, a liar, etc. At 50 with a track record of no cheating, lying, disloyalty and such I think it's safe to assume, for the man in my life, I will continue in that path. Maybe older people have this advantage over young ones. We have a track record following us. Link to post Share on other sites
truth_seeker Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 A year and a half in, he blurted out, "I'm not sure HOW I feel about you!" That really hurt--I mean, after 1.5 years, I thought, you should have some idea how you feel (we were both 26). I swept it under the rug because we had just planned a 3-week trip to Peru with his family and then I'd just bought a ticket to visit his hometown for 2 weeks after the Peru trip. If I'd broken things off with him, we'd have had to cancel everything and at the time that just seemed to be making a mountain out of a molehill. I think you knew it was over at this juncture but didn't want to face it. Link to post Share on other sites
Zapbasket Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I think you knew it was over at this juncture but didn't want to face it. It was weird, because after that trip to Peru things were wonderful. It seemed at that point that he truly had fallen in love with me, calling me a cross between his mom and his dad (he adored his parents). I do think I should have bailed right then, Peru trip be damned. He paid for it, so I wouldn't have lost any money, and I hope I've since learned that when someone tells you, 1.5 years in, that they're not sure how they feel about you, that's your cue to bail. So freaking disrespectful, and I just absorbed it like a fool. Link to post Share on other sites
PandaPookie Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 You may not believe this but my boyfriend was his true self from the beginning. But I don't think I showed my full self until after a year. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Zapbasket Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 This is a great thread. All the responses have made me remember all the impressions and perceptions I had at the beginning of my relationships. I'm curious: once you all started to see the person's "true self," by which I assume we mean the range and prevalence of his or her flaws and assets as a person, what did you do with that information? Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 You decide if you love them despite their flaws or if their flaws are a dealbreaker. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Four or five months in, we were walking down a sidewalk in Boston, hand in hand, when I exclaimed how beautiful this one birch tree was, all sheathed in ice and sparkling in the sun. He dropped my hand and started walking ahead of me with this upset look on his face. I asked, "What's wrong?" and he replied, "It's just...you love EVERYTHING!" I laughed, took his hand again, and said, "Well, isn't that a GOOD thing?" But his brow stayed furrowed and he was uncommunicative for several minutes. He resents it that you're happy. Not good. I mean, there is such a thing as being too goody-two-shoes and working people's nerves, and I have a friend like that, but doesn't sound like the case here. He was disapproving of you finding beauty in something as simple as nature. Some men can be jealous of even trees, I guess! Link to post Share on other sites
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