Men shooting themselves in the foot by not agreeing to "friendships" with women

January 28, 2017

I used to think this was a good thing to say if you wanted to take things slowly, until I realized that some guys would interpret this as me looking for FWB.

Honestly, really anything and everything you say is going to misinterpreted by someone in online dating.

January 28, 2017

I used to think this was a good thing to say if you wanted to take things slowly, until I realized that some guys would interpret this as me looking for FWB.

Honestly, really anything and everything you say is going to misinterpreted by someone in online dating.

Yeah...there was this one woman on POF that says she is not looking for a relationship and no commitment, and has "friends" as to what she's seeking.

She has all these skin-tight, body hugging dresses in sexual poses and says in her profile, "When did it become so hard to hang out with no expectations?" This site does have options for friends!"

What? To give her an "out" or a reason to back out or be at tease and get free dinners and shows out of him?

January 28, 2017

Yeah...there was this one woman on POF that says she is not looking for a relationship and no commitment, and has "friends" as to what she's seeking.

She has all these skin-tight, body hugging dresses in sexual poses and says in her profile, "When did it become so hard to hang out with no expectations?" This site does have options for friends!"

What? To give her an "out" or a reason to back out or be at tease and get free dinners and shows out of him?

I think if a woman says she is looking for friends then best to assume she means friends than risk upsetting and offending her by assuming she means friends with benefits...

If she really means she is looking for fwbs then I guess she will make that apparent fairly early on.

January 28, 2017

I think the "friends first" approach to dating (not to be confused with "friends with benefits first") can work if it truly is platonic friends first. If the woman wants "friends first", but expects the guy to treat her like he's seriously dating her without reciprocating any romantic interest on her part, than that is not friends first. I've experienced that before with women who stated "friends first". Lesson learned.

January 28, 2017

I have used 'friends first' on dating sites and to me it means I want to get to know him on a platonic basis at first to see if there is a real connection. It is a way of managing expectations. I do not want him to think that because we are meeting, I fancy him or that I think he is a great person. I probably do not know enough at that point to decide on those things.

Also, it is safer to start out like that because then he is not expecting instant exclusivity. It is amazing how guys assume you should not be speaking to anyone but them because you have agreed to meet them for the first time. Until a real relationship has started it is just not appropriate to behave as if already in one.

Having said the above, 'friends first' tends to put some guys off. They assume it means that you will never see them as a potential lover. The fact that you are meeting them shows that you are considering that, so it is their mistake, but there we are. 'Friends' seems to have different connotations for men. Some assume it means casual sex, others assume it means no sex. Weird!

January 28, 2017

I have used 'friends first' on dating sites and to me it means I want to get to know him on a platonic basis at first to see if there is a real connection. It is a way of managing expectations. I do not want him to think that because we are meeting, I fancy him or that I think he is a great person. I probably do not know enough at that point to decide on those things.

Also, it is safer to start out like that because then he is not expecting instant exclusivity. It is amazing how guys assume you should not be speaking to anyone but them because you have agreed to meet them for the first time. Until a real relationship has started it is just not appropriate to behave as if already in one.

Having said the above, 'friends first' tends to put some guys off. They assume it means that you will never see them as a potential lover. The fact that you are meeting them shows that you are considering that, so it is their mistake, but there we are. 'Friends' seems to have different connotations for men. Some assume it means casual sex, others assume it means no sex. Weird!

Or you've already been put in the friend zone.

January 28, 2017

I think if all you're looking for is friends, stay off of online dating! They're dating sites, not places to just make friends and waste time.

Women's point of view: They want to know you're not a serial rapist before they go out with you, but that does NOT mean they need to just be friends first. What that means is the sooner you send her a photo ID and Skype to prove you are who you say you are, the sooner she'll go out with you to a lighted public place.

Guys: If a woman agrees to go on a date and then a second date, time to at least kiss her at the end of the night. If she doesn't even want to kiss and you do, I would think she was either too young and inexperienced for you to be dating or she's not attracted already.

January 28, 2017

I think if all you're looking for is friends, stay off of online dating! They're dating sites, not places to just make friends and waste time.

Women's point of view: They want to know you're not a serial rapist before they go out with you, but that does NOT mean they need to just be friends first. What that means is the sooner you send her a photo ID and Skype to prove you are who you say you are, the sooner she'll go out with you to a lighted public place.

Guys: If a woman agrees to go on a date and then a second date, time to at least kiss her at the end of the night. If she doesn't even want to kiss and you do, I would think she was either too young and inexperienced for you to be dating or she's not attracted already.

Well people don't normally don't jump into a relationship so it is usually friends first then a relationship. If someone is not your boyfriend or girlfriend yet then what other label would they have besides a friend?

January 29, 2017

Well people don't normally don't jump into a relationship so it is usually friends first then a relationship. If someone is not your boyfriend or girlfriend yet then what other label would they have besides a friend?

I wouldn't call it anything, just someone you talk to online. I think people usually do jump into a relationship if that's what they're looking for, or they jump into a hookup if that's what they're looking for, and pretty much that is what online dating is for.

January 29, 2017

I wouldn't call it anything, just someone you talk to online. I think people usually do jump into a relationship if that's what they're looking for, or they jump into a hookup if that's what they're looking for, and pretty much that is what online dating is for.

Why would anyone jump into a relationship with someone they just met? Jumping into a hookup makes more sense than a relationship because you don't know if the person is involved with someone and pretending to be single.

With a hookup it doesn't matter because you both are going your separate ways after sex

January 29, 2017

the consensus ive seen is women who put "friends" genuinely want to be friends first and progress the relationship. men usually use it to imply something "casual" in a nicer way, but there is no hard rule. that being said I don't think it's a good strategy in either way because it's all sorts of ambiguity and like someone above said, dating sites aren't for friends. Wanting to get to know someone really better before a relationship or sex is fine but I don't think "friends" is the best way to couch that.

January 29, 2017

The OP posted a GREAT thread topic on "friends first, then relationship" when it comes to online dating.

Heck, I have had one attractive girl tell me that right off the bat after our first date.

I asked her if she wanted to be in a relationship. She said the same thing "let's be friends first, and then let it lead into a relationship" Sh-t!

I mean for me, it's good, because I have recently moved to a different city, and I'm also looking to widen/increase my friend network in this area.

However, I'm getting older, mid 30s now, and need to find a REAL girlfriend who will eventually become my future wife.

January 29, 2017

I've always used it.

I can't be dating someone without being friends with them and I also can't date someone who goes way too fast and attempts lock down from the first meet.

Some guys day friends first then suddenly display the 'I need to lock her down' elements so quick that it's unrealistic.

I've certainly never meant it as FWB and I would never agree to a date following a first meet if a guy attempts/displays the 'lock down' traits and definitely not before meeting - that's just cray cray!

If I am not at all attracted then there's no point in a date and I am honest that I'm not interested.

If a first meet goes well and there is potential and some attraction then yep, I'll give it a go and go on a date.

I'm talking online here - obviously.

IRL I have always got to know a guy before dating or being in a relationship anyway - as he has me. It's just a lot more natural.

January 29, 2017

Heck, I have had one attractive girl tell me that right off the bat after our first date.

I asked her if she wanted to be in a relationship. She said the same thing "let's be friends first, and then let it lead into a relationship" Sh-t!

I mean for me, it's good, because I have recently moved to a different city, and I'm also looking to widen/increase my friend network in this area.

However, I'm getting older, mid 30s now, and need to find a REAL girlfriend who will eventually become my future wife.

OK but these women who want to be "friends first and see where it goes" do not want to be consigned to the friend zone as in a "platonic friends forever and ever" kind of a way.

They often want to be taken on dates and still be seen as relationship material but are just taking sex off the menu in the near future or maybe forever if they then eventually decide that they do not see the man in a romantic way. She thus keeps her "number" low.

I think some women do it as they know that when they sleep with a guy they immediately see picket fences, cute kids, hearts and flowers and are "in love".

So she learns that either she gets very hurt when he dumps her"out of the blue" because she never saw the red flags as she was so besotted, or she wakes up out of the sexual fog 2-3 years later to find he is NOT want she really wanted after all.

Taking sex off the menu for a while can provide her with more clarity of thought.

She has time to ask herself.

"Do I actually like this guy enough to have a good lasting relationship with, or am I simply horny and desperate for "love" and so just about anyone will do?"

Of course some use it as a stalling strategy. She does not want to say no and hurt the guy or say a definite no if she is unsure, but she does not want to sleep with him right now either, so "friends first" seems like a good idea. She can make up her mind for real later.

I think for such an important life decision, some do tend to rush things. Sex is often a huge distraction. Men and women get so caught up in the sex that they fail to see they have got themselves mixed up with a "hot" psycho, or a very unstable individual or someone who would NEVER be good relationship material for them - not in a million years.

January 29, 2017

I think some women do it as they know that when they sleep with a guy they immediately see picket fences, cute kids, hearts and flowers and are "in love".

Exactly. I had a woman tell me she waits a good long while before having sex with someone she's dating. She's even said she'll sleep in a bed with the same guy a few times before doing the "deed." Because she said the chemicals released in the moment calls for a hazy judgement. (picket fences, having kids, etc.)

The problem is people rely too much on this "instant chemistry" and often people are putting their best foot forward in dating, hiding their faults.

When you're a friend with someone, you make no attempt to hide it and you become more grounded and stable with that person.

Unfortunately with the latter, people unwisely friend zone each other if they know, according to some, TOO much about each other...when in fact that it SHOULD be the foundation to know as much about each other for a TRUE relationship.

I think that's why I've had my long dry spells. I'm not really wired to mask my faults or whatever when dating.

I think for such an important life decision, some do tend to rush things. Sex is often a huge distraction. Men and women get so caught up in the sex that they fail to see they have got themselves mixed up with a "hot" psycho, or a very unstable individual or someone who would NEVER be good relationship material for them - not in a million years.

Yeah, maybe that's where they got the whole "no sex before marriage" from religion. Maybe they were on to something?

Edited January 29, 2017 by LookAtThisPOst

January 29, 2017

Also, it looks like opinions on this married are quite varied. So I would think the opinions here wont' reflect any sort of rule and would ONLY involve the 2 that are dating.

Peoples' ideas of "dating" are sometimes not in sync.

For instance, I knew of a female friend of mine that had gone out with a guy about 4 or 5 times. After that, he invited her as a +1 date to a social gathering of most of his friends.

The friends were vocally saying how cute she was and "Way to go" winks from his friends. She got uncomfortable with this as she was given the impression HE was spreading news of their new "relationship."

As far as she was considered, they were just "seeing each other" and not at the "boyfriend/girlfriend" level.

Needless to say, that didn't last as they were on both different pages. He thought he had a new girlfriend, she thought of him as a "guy she was getting to know." or "seeing." rather.

I really don't see what the big deal was with his friends' reactions but she did...so that would be a compatibility issue.

Apparently her idea of dating was different from his.

January 29, 2017

Believe it or not, I've actually seen a few women on dating sites say, "I'm not here to make friends, but a genuine romantic connection." I can see the truthin that.

January 29, 2017

The friends were vocally saying how cute she was and "Way to go" winks from his friends. She got uncomfortable with this as she was given the impression HE was spreading news of their new "relationship."

As far as she was considered, they were just "seeing each other" and not at the "boyfriend/girlfriend" level.

I can see that all those winks and "way to go" comments would not go down well, but accepting a +1 invitation to a social gathering which included most of his friends, is a "gf" kind of thing to do.

So if she was still "on the fence" then she should have declined that invitation as it was surely obvious he would be "showing her off" to the people he was closest to.

January 29, 2017

My philosophy is exactly the opposite: lovers first and then see where it goes.

Once I saw "friends first and then see where it goes" I didn't bother reading any further and went on to the next profile. I wasn't on a dating site to find new friends. I was there to find a lover.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's great if lovers become friends. My gf is one of my closest friends now and I value that part of our relationship tremendously. It's more important than the physical part.

That happened organically over a period of months after we became lovers. I would not have waited months for a friendship to develop before having sex with her. I just wouldn't have.

January 29, 2017

My philosophy is exactly the opposite: lovers first and then see where it goes.

Once I saw "friends first and then see where it goes" I didn't bother reading any further and went on to the next profile. I wasn't on a dating site to find new friends. I was there to find a lover.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's great if lovers become friends. My gf is one of my closest friends now and I value that part of our relationship tremendously. It's more important than the physical part.

That happened organically over a period of months after we became lovers. I would not have waited months for a friendship to develop before having sex with her. I just wouldn't have.

Now comes to question your relationships longevity. Based on the fact you went "lovers first", instead of friendship first...would you say your relationship will last 3 to 5 years tops? (Usually most relationships last around that much, if the relationship didn't start off as friends first)

I used to kind of scratch my head at married couples...who fully admitted saying they were friends for YEARS before having dated. I knew of a couple that was getting married...didn't know she was dating anyone...turns out it was her best friend of 5 years.

How does that happen? Apparently they were "friends first" and now they are married...so, would you say that being "friends first" is a qood qualifier for marriage material?

Lovers first = girlfriend/boyfriend for a handful of years

Friends first = marriage material or in in it for the long haul.

January 29, 2017

I can see that all those winks and "way to go" comments would not go down well, but accepting a +1 invitation to a social gathering which included most of his friends, is a "gf" kind of thing to do.
So if she was still "on the fence" then she should have declined that invitation as it was surely obvious he would be "showing her off" to the people he was closest to.

Funny you mention that, because my male friend, in his early 50s is single was seeing this woman for a little while, been on a handful of dates. He does this gathering with a European Meetup group once a month...he's been with them for years and they are like family to him.

In casual conversation with her, he mentions he had this event coming up and apparently, the venue was near her home so she hinted at going. He didn't invite her (for the reason mentioned above). He invited me, but told me not to say anything to her and I was like "Why? You didn't invite her?"

HE goes, "Yeah, she was trying to hint at wanting to go....but I don't want to bring a new woman I'm seeing along with a group of people that I've known for along time.

I was like "Dude, it's a meetup group...open to the public, what's wrong with you? Plus it's a good sign she really likes you!"

I felt like thunkin' him in the head, because she was a nice girl...I actually teased him and said, "Hey, if you wont' take her as a plus 1, then I WILL!"

January 29, 2017

My philosophy is exactly the opposite: lovers first and then see where it goes.

Once I saw "friends first and then see where it goes" I didn't bother reading any further and went on to the next profile. I wasn't on a dating site to find new friends. I was there to find a lover.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's great if lovers become friends. My gf is one of my closest friends now and I value that part of our relationship tremendously. It's more important than the physical part.

That happened organically over a period of months after we became lovers. I would not have waited months for a friendship to develop before having sex with her. I just wouldn't have.

For me as well.

Also to mention that people can be lovers before they've actually had sex. This is perhaps why I would also ignore someone who insisted on becoming friends first as opposed to saying I prefer to wait for sex until I know you better. To me this is not to actually become friends first, but rather to assess you better as a romantic partner before getting physical. Semantics to some perhaps, but not the way I read it.

Now comes to question your relationships longevity. Based on the fact you went "lovers first", instead of friendship first...would you say your relationship will last 3 to 5 years tops? (Usually most relationships last around that much, if the relationship didn't start off as friends first)

I used to kind of scratch my head at married couples...who fully admitted saying they were friends for YEARS before having dated. I knew of a couple that was getting married...didn't know she was dating anyone...turns out it was her best friend of 5 years.

How does that happen? Apparently they were "friends first" and now they are married...so, would you say that being "friends first" is a qood qualifier for marriage material?

Lovers first = girlfriend/boyfriend for a handful of years
Friends first = marriage material or in in it for the long haul.

I don't think there is any strong evidence to support one way being better than the other, it's just different strokes...

Nearly all my relationships have started as sex on the first meet and most have been stable. That some of them lasted longer than others is no different than for people who started as friends first.

January 29, 2017

i would probably put that in my profile if i were online dating still.

Many guys assume i was on pof looking for sex. No, it's a dating site, i was there to date not have casual sex. It gets old when a bunch of different guys try to get into your pants asap without even trying to get to know you.

January 29, 2017

i would probably put that in my profile if i were online dating still.

Many guys assume i was on pof looking for sex. No, it's a dating site, i was there to date not have casual sex. It gets old when a bunch of different guys try to get into your pants asap without even trying to get to know you.

So you would prefer the friends first phrasing vs saying simply no casual sex or prefer to wait for sex? And if so, why? Just curious...

January 29, 2017

i would probably put that in my profile if i were online dating still.

Many guys assume i was on pof looking for sex. No, it's a dating site, i was there to date not have casual sex. It gets old when a bunch of different guys try to get into your pants asap without even trying to get to know you.

I never been that type of guy but part of me can understand it since the man is expected to pay for dates. Now it doesn't have to be sex but atleast a guy should have kissed her by the 2nd date.

For me it's easier to kiss when we are alone in a relaxed environment versus a busy city street. I remember after date 2 this woman looked like she wanted me to kiss her and I was like....."here? now? I mean can we go inside the car or something

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Men shooting themselves in the foot by not agreeing to "friendships" with women

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