Affairs make a person crazy...

[SolG]

Different perspective here. I've certainly been through the my A is making me crazy stage; that's what brought me to LS in the first place. But after a lot of research, discussing amd soul searching I came to the realisation that it wasn't the A making me crazy... it was ME making me crazy.

 

It doesn't matter what MM does, it matters how I react. That is completely within my control. Stay or not; my choice. Wonder or ask, express or withhold, seek to control or accept, seek validation or validate myself, complain about lack of fulfillment or work towards fulfilling myself... all my choice.

 

Saying that something external is making me crazy is abrogation of my responsibility to find and maintain my own peace and sanity. It is failure to know and confront myself.

[Gigi2015]

A also hurt your health, because of all the stress that they cause you. It's hard to wonder what they are doing with their W and if they are getting along. You don't want to be thinking about these things, but you do. You're in the position of feeling like your in a competition for the MMs heart, but the W is the one that has him and you don't.

 

You're wrong about the W. She doesn't have him. She's not the one manipulating the situation. It's not as if she's nice today so....I don't get him. She's the only one who truly doesn't know what's going on....she can't figure out what she did wrong because the a-hole you're with won't be honest with her....but he'll still have sex with her,eat her meals, put on the clothes she washes for him, etc....honey don't be jealous. Her position is painful.

[ladydesigner]

Well yeah!!! He was a selfish person who wanted devotees...that is not love. Most MM would go nuts at the thought of their wives cheating too.

 

Yep my WH did. When I caught him in his A with MOW I disclosed my own A from 4 years prior. He left for a week and then came back. oh and then continued on with his A with MOW.

[ladydesigner]

It's easier to deal with a spouse that won't pack a healthy lunch than one who cheats. If it was that big of a deal he could have packed the lunches.

 

I thought the same thing. These damn WS's the way they twist the M to the AP it's like really?!?

[Lovetoohard]

I thought the same thing. These damn WS's the way they twist the M to the AP it's like really?!?

 

Yep! They're hypercritical of their W or H and cleverly manipulate words to garner sympathy and affection from the AP. Of course, it's always the W or H that's to blame. They never look at their own flaws. Never occurs to them that maybe, just maybe, their M is the way it is because their W or H is fed up with them for whatever reason? Or maybe they don't see how much their spouse does for them, but they selfishly see it as not enough? And gee, here's another thought - maybe they should put in effort to fix it, or get out if unfixable? "Me, me, me. My wants, my needs." After all, isn't that the classic character trait of a WS?

 

A lot of WS's are very insecure individuals with low confidence and self esteem issues, so anything that they perceive as a challenge to their fragile self esteem makes them seek validation outside their M instead of working through things. I guess some WS's come to their senses and try to make things right, but sometimes it's too late and people are hurt.

 

I would be devastated if my husband ran and hid between someone's legs every time we were faced with the ups and downs of marriage.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Lovetoohard

[lftbehind]

Do you genuinely envy the position his W is in and want that (I.e., him) for yourself? I know the irrational and crazy thoughts take over when you're in the thick of it, but you will see things objectively as time goes on.

 

It sucks, I know, but it will get better.

 

I don't envy the position his wife is in, but I do still think that he's a good guy. I wouldn't want to be in her position, but I can't say that I wouldn't want to be with him. I know, it doesn't make sense.

[Forceawakensme]

I don't envy the position his wife is in, but I do still think that he's a good guy. I wouldn't want to be in her position, but I can't say that I wouldn't want to be with him. I know, it doesn't make sense.

 

no i get it. In our (utterly delusional) minds we think that he's a good guy but maybe with the wrong woman -- the right woman (us) will help him he his best self and not continue to make poor decisions... ---At least thats my nutty thinking!

[lftbehind]

Seems to me neither the wife or the OW has an MM, but that he's an empty soul who, way down deep inside, doesn't even have himself.

 

I don't know. He seem like he has his act together and has everything going for him. Maybe I don't know him well enough.

[lftbehind]

You're wrong about the W. She doesn't have him. She's not the one manipulating the situation. It's not as if she's nice today so....I don't get him. She's the only one who truly doesn't know what's going on....she can't figure out what she did wrong because the a-hole you're with won't be honest with her....but he'll still have sex with her,eat her meals, put on the clothes she washes for him, etc....honey don't be jealous. Her position is painful.

 

I know that her position is painful and I feel bad about that. I don't like to hurt people.

[lftbehind]

no i get it. In our (utterly delusional) minds we think that he's a good guy but maybe with the wrong woman -- the right woman (us) will help him he his best self and not continue to make poor decisions... ---At least thats my nutty thinking!

 

I know what you mean. You think that you bring out the best in them and they bring out the best in you. It feels so right, but they have another life.

[dreamingoftigers]

no i get it. In our (utterly delusional) minds we think that he's a good guy but maybe with the wrong woman -- the right woman (us) will help him he his best self and not continue to make poor decisions... ---At least thats my nutty thinking!

 

Was there adultery in your FOO?

 

Because I see that a lot in OW. They want the adulterer to finally pick them instead.

[imsosad]

I don't envy the position his wife is in, but I do still think that he's a good guy. I wouldn't want to be in her position, but I can't say that I wouldn't want to be with him. I know, it doesn't make sense.

 

My dear,

This is probably the point where we all act crazy in affairs. I get it, i also thought my xap was a really great guy who married the wrong woman.

You know what?

A good conscience is not a matter of consequence. A good peson can make a bad choice and try to fix it. A man who cheats long term and/or as a way of life, is just not a very good person. I read the threads, i think of my own experience and stories i heard,it usually boils down to a selfish coward.

If his marriage was that bad,he would leave. I mean, divorce rates are towards 50% in the western countries. What. special circumstances do all these mm have that prevent them from divorcing this wrong person they married?

They have none.

The marriage is not so bad, they like their life the way it is.

And yes, my A made me crazy. CRAZY. My behavior was the exact opposite of my normal self. I was selfish, anxious, edgy, unfocoused, naive, careless and irresponsible.

It distorted my point of view. It nearly cost me the life i worked so hard to build.

While being married myself, i lacked sympathy for his BW and often felt jealous of her.

Now i realise she is the last person on earth i envy, i feel for her.

So yes, affairs make a person crazy.

[Lovetoohard]

I don't envy the position his wife is in, but I do still think that he's a good guy. I wouldn't want to be in her position, but I can't say that I wouldn't want to be with him. I know, it doesn't make sense.

 

I am going to be redundant, this kind of thinking is precisely the point of this thread I'm not going to trash MM. He may be a good guy, but he's lost and a coward. what you "think" of him is based on a tiny sliver of his personality and real life. A's are not real relationships even though most of us felt they were. You don't really know him.

[Gigi2015]

My dear,

This is probably the point where we all act crazy in affairs. I get it, i also thought my xap was a really great guy who married the wrong woman.

You know what?

A good conscience is not a matter of consequence. A good peson can make a bad choice and try to fix it. A man who cheats long term and/or as a way of life, is just not a very good person. I read the threads, i think of my own experience and stories i heard,it usually boils down to a selfish coward.

If his marriage was that bad,he would leave. I mean, divorce rates are towards 50% in the western countries. What. special circumstances do all these mm have .that prevent them from divorcing this wrong person they married?

They have none.

The marriage is not so bad, they like their life the way it is.

And yes, my A made me crazy. CRAZY. My behavior was the exact opposite of my normal self. I was selfish, anxious, edgy, unfocoused, naive, careless and irresponsible.

It distorted my point of view. It nearly cost me the life i worked so hard to build.

While being married myself, i lacked sympathy for his BW and often felt jealous of her.

Now i realise she is the last person on earth i envy, i feel for her.

So yes, affairs make a person crazy.

 

And BS also go nuts during an A due to insecurity.... And all this is due to one person only: The betrayer

[imsosad]

I am going to be redundant, this kind of thinking is precisely the point of this thread I'm not going to trash MM. He may be a good guy, but he's lost and a coward. what you "think" of him is based on a tiny sliver of his personality and real life. A's are not real relationships even though most of us felt they were. You don't really know him.

 

Well said.

This is what i meant, but you articulate it much better.

Thinking your mm is a good guy in bad circumstances is part of affair fog.

It is crazy to think this guy lies to his wife, but is 100% honest with us.

You really do only see a tiny part of your ap.

It also goes the other way around.

My ap was astounded i actually went nc and maintained it. He said i was too in love, too gentle, too confused.My h could have set him straight in a second about what happens when i make up my mind.

Affairs are all about fantasy and that is what drives the crazy. The fantasy is so strong,it knocks off your feet and you start chasing it. But its false. When a R involves so much lying to the outside, it is only a fantasy to assume it doesnt infiltrate in to the R.

It feels like there is a mind blowing connection,that your hearts are intertwined,that you know each othet like no other person.

Truth is, if you havent lived with someone for years and been with them through thick and thin,you dont really know them as well as you think. Even then,as all BS can testify, you cant know for sure.

[LivingWaterPlease]

I don't know. He seem like he has his act together and has everything going for him. Maybe I don't know him well enough.

 

 

From what you've posted it does seem he has his act together. But, key word here is "act,' it's not the reality of who he is.

 

When someone behaves in a deceitful manner they don't really have their life together; their act (who they appear to be on a superficial level) may be, though.

 

Deep down inside he's confused and believing a lie.

Edited February 12, 2016 by LivingWaterPlease

[ladydesigner]

Was there adultery in your FOO?

 

Because I see that a lot in OW. They want the adulterer to finally pick them instead.

 

Yes not only this, but also if their father was emotionally cold, distant or abusive.

 

In my own case I have done this in EVERY one of my relationships including my own A. I always have picked partners who are emotionally distant or abusive, but they don't start this way. Eventually I get rejected and the feelings of inadequacy that I felt from my childhood come rushing back. Somehow my subconscious knows this and I am hoping for a better outcome than my childhood.

[rainbowsandkittens]

Yes not only this, but also if their father was emotionally cold, distant or abusive.

 

In my own case I have done this in EVERY one of my relationships including my own A. I always have picked partners who are emotionally distant or abusive, but they don't start this way. Eventually I get rejected and the feelings of inadequacy that I felt from my childhood come rushing back. Somehow my subconscious knows this and I am hoping for a better outcome than my childhood.

 

What does FOO stand for?

 

Totally do the same thing- though in my case, it's my mother. She's a classic narcissist. Among other things...

[dreamingoftigers]

What does FOO stand for?

 

Totally do the same thing- though in my case, it's my mother. She's a classic narcissist. Among other things...

 

Family of Origin.

 

I am actually a BS but my father was an alcoholic cheater.

 

I married an alcoholic (who wasn't drinking for the year before I married him or years afterward) when I became pregnant the adultery started and blew up. Later he relapsed with drinking.

 

I'd come on here and my story more emotionally matched that with OW for some reason. Even though I was never an OW. Quite frankly I wasn't too nice with OW either, especially considering the impact on my family and the values my mother raised me with.

 

But I figured out that I married that pattern. Including having a guy I loved " future-fake" with me. For years I said I was "the OW in my own marriage." It really pissed me off, for starters.

 

Once I discovered that, in a thread on here during reflection no less, I was DONE. The light-switch flipped. I wasn't going to be an OW. Not even to my own husband.

 

That's he made a major change, luckily. But I totally see where I married an alcoholic, hoping that the alcoholic would finally pick me and our family over his own selfish, self-destruction.

 

Now that I'm older and this dramatis personae has played out, I know that should the opportunity arise to date, I know more what I am looking for.

[cja]

I know what you mean. You think that you bring out the best in them and they bring out the best in you. It feels so right, but they have another life.

 

I do not understand this. My H's AP thought this way as well, while at the same time feeling used, rejected, and misled. Given the circumstances of the relationship, isn't it more reasonable to think the MM brought out the insecure, irrational side of the OW who, given the nature of an affair, accepts less than she deserves? A sort of devaluing of her true worth, and not exactly the best in her? And in the MM what is brought out is the selfish, insecure and needy part of himself willing to hurt two women in the process of having his needs fulfilled. I guess I don't understand the metrics used to evaluate what is the best.

Edited February 13, 2016 by cja

[Arieswoman]

tigers makes an interesting observation in post #36

 

Was there adultery in your FOO?

 

Because I see that a lot in OW. They want the adulterer to finally pick them instead.

I can cite 2 examples.

1.A girl I used to know made a habit of having affairs with unavailable men, usually married.

Her father cheated on her mother during WW2 when he was posted away and left for the OW. He eventually came back and they reconciled and she was the result.

Her mother never let her dad forget it and apparently threw it up in his face repeatedly.

 

2. My (ex) husband's AP saw her father abuse her mother. Her mother had an affair and then left for her AP. She then married the AP and he abused her. In fact they were in the middle of the divorce when she got involved with my ex.

 

I'm not a psychologist but I am sure that these type of unstable home backgrounds have an effect on the mindset of the OW.

[lftbehind]

My dear,

This is probably the point where we all act crazy in affairs. I get it, i also thought my xap was a really great guy who married the wrong woman.

You know what?

A good conscience is not a matter of consequence. A good peson can make a bad choice and try to fix it. A man who cheats long term and/or as a way of life, is just not a very good person. I read the threads, i think of my own experience and stories i heard,it usually boils down to a selfish coward.

If his marriage was that bad,he would leave. I mean, divorce rates are towards 50% in the western countries. What. special circumstances do all these mm have that prevent them from divorcing this wrong person they married?

They have none.

The marriage is not so bad, they like their life the way it is.

And yes, my A made me crazy. CRAZY. My behavior was the exact opposite of my normal self. I was selfish, anxious, edgy, unfocoused, naive, careless and irresponsible.

It distorted my point of view. It nearly cost me the life i worked so hard to build.

While being married myself, i lacked sympathy for his BW and often felt jealous of her.

Now i realise she is the last person on earth i envy, i feel for her.

So yes, affairs make a person crazy.

 

I agree that cheating long term or as a way of life should get a divorce. In the case of my MM, his W is older and a housewife and totally financially dependent on him. It would make it hard for him to leave. We don't see each other much, because we live in different towns and our work schedules. I used to be able to see him more. We do keep in touch every day, though. It does get hard not to be able to see him and I do feel, not crazy, but like I'm falling apart sometimes. I don't like hurting his wife.

[lftbehind]

I do not understand this. My H's AP thought this way as well, while at the same time feeling used, rejected, and misled. Given the circumstances of the relationship, isn't it more reasonable to think the MM brought out the insecure, irrational side of the OW who, given the nature of an affair, accepts less than she deserves? A sort of devaluing of her true worth, and not exactly the best in her? And in the MM what is brought out is the selfish, insecure and needy part of himself willing to hurt two women in the process of having his needs fulfilled. I guess I don't understand the metrics used to evaluate what is the best.

 

Sorry for your M situation. As the OW you do feel many emotions and you feel both good and bad about yourself. I feel very good and happy when I'm with MM and we enjoy each others' company a lot. I can rarely see him now with my new schedule. I miss him when I can't see him and then I feel bad that I'm in this situation. MM has been a good friend to me when I've needed one, so it would be hard to give that up.

[sandylee1]

tigers makes an interesting observation in post #36

 

 

I can cite 2 examples.

1.A girl I used to know made a habit of having affairs with unavailable men, usually married.

Her father cheated on her mother during WW2 when he was posted away and left for the OW. He eventually came back and they reconciled and she was the result.

Her mother never let her dad forget it and apparently threw it up in his face repeatedly.

 

2. My (ex) husband's AP saw her father abuse her mother. Her mother had an affair and then left for her AP. She then married the AP and he abused her. In fact they were in the middle of the divorce when she got involved with my ex.

 

I'm not a psychologist but I am sure that these type of unstable home backgrounds have an effect on the mindset of the OW.

 

We learn what we see from our parents and other role models. So many of the people I see have infidelity in their FOO. In many families it's not seen as such a big deal..... children see way more than we think.

 

If I were to tell my parents certain things from growing up.... they'd be suprised I was even aware of them.

 

It's much the same as coming from a family who don't have a higher education or who do. ... you're more likely to follow the pattern.

[Hip Pocket]

Date nights with his wife and vacations would make me so angry.. I would go silent on him for days.. He used to tell me that he had to do date nights and vacations with her, what did I expect him to do? It was almost like he expected me to apologize for getting upset and not understanding that was the deal. i felt like I was going crazy and completely lost myself. It was the worst of times for sure. Anyone else relate?

 

Hi,

 

Please forgive my ignorance, I'm new here and don't know everyone yet. I've lurked a while, then joined and this forum in particular is more confusing than the others. It seems as though the OW here are very apologetic in their approach, as if they cannot get support unless they behave as such, and it seems like a lot of the supporters are not themselves OW. So forgive me for asking, Savannah, but are you currently an OW?

 

To answer your question no, I cannot relate. I am a long time OW and I do not agree that affairs make you crazy. I think any partner who is unhealthy has the potential to wear you down psychologically but this is not exclusive to affairs. "The nature of the affair" that someone mentioned is a fallacy. The nature of any R is what both parties in a given couple deem it to be, so every couple has the chance to make their R healthy if they choose.

 

I have had frustrated times (you might call them crazy but I call it what it is) with my MM but once I communicated my needs they were met, and there was no more frustration. I had no idea that our A could last so long, longer than many Ms, and I surmise that that's happened due to our willingness to communicate and work things out. It's only when you have no hope of working things out in a R (M or A) that you begin to feel unhealthy (crazy) and decide to get out. But if your needs are met, there is no crazy.