spanz1 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Offer to travel with him. . ^ this is what I would do ^ Link to post Share on other sites
OneLov Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 In those applicable states: Unless she is the higher earner, his infidelity would not likely affect any alimony she is entitled to. If she is, it could reduce any alimony she would owe him. If she does not earn as much as him, a court will not award her any additional money she is not otherwise entitled to. In other words, it does award the loyal spouse additional money only reduces any alimony he/she may owe the WS. You're right about the email. Absolute contract. It's all about the intent of the parties. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Why exactly does this guy have to go back to China? I'm assuming it's for work, right? Why can't somebody else go? It would be terribly embarrassing to have to go to your boss and say, "sorry dude.. you'll have to give that assignment to someone else because I've behaved inappropriately with a contact there". But maybe that's the price of avoiding having one's ass handed to him by a divorce lawyer? The OP should not have to travel to China to keep this guy out of trouble. I mean, if she's wanting to travel, sure.. why not? But if it's just about making sure her husband isn't cheating on her... "hey, trip's off, bub. You can tell your boss the real reason why, or you can make some **** up. But if you get on that plane, all your junk will be in a storage unit by the time you get back and the papers will be drawn up and tacked to the ****ing door. Sorry about your luck." Consequences. There's a time for sugar and there's a time for spice... and then there's a time for opening up an old-fashioned can of whoop-ass. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 The OP should not have to travel to China to keep this guy out of trouble. I mean, if she's wanting to travel, sure.. why not? But if it's just about making sure her husband isn't cheating on her... "hey, trip's off, bub. You can tell your boss the real reason why, or you can make some **** up. But if you get on that plane, all your junk will be in a storage unit by the time you get back and the papers will be drawn up and tacked to the ****ing door. Sorry about your luck." Agreed. Doesn't matter if this "friend" is in Chino or China, a spouse who's concerned about his marriage wouldn't travel solo to see her after you've voiced your objections. You'll learn a lot from his reaction... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Last September 2015, my husband travelled for business to China. Since his return, he has been chatting with a woman who he met there. She was someone assigned to translate for him. They have been chatting via WeChat (Chinese facebook) and he had❤ many of her posts, especially the ones of her face. He has privately messaged her to send him pictures of herself, to tell her she looks good and even to say that he hopes to see her once he found out he was returning in January 2016. When I confronted him, he simply said that there was nothing sexual, that they were just friends and that I was overreacting. I don't think he did anything sexual with her but I feel that if there was the opportunity, he may have. I also feel that if I had not found out about it, he would probably still be chatting to her still (I asked him to delete her profile). A few weeks ago, I looked in his translation app and saw phrases like, "if you are not doing anything later, maybe a can get together" or "you look beautiful tonight". When I confronted him, he simply says he doesn't remember. He is supposed to return to China in march and I am so stressed. He said that nothing happened and that nothing will. Am I over reacting?. What can I do? It's totally inappropriate what he's doing and he knows it too. He may not be physically cheating on you but he is up to no good and is crossing lines with her. You have every right to be upset, mad and concerned by his behavior and actions. Fact that he's turned it around and minimized it, denied it just confirms that he is not acting like a faithful husband to you. What he is doing is called gas lighting. your gut knows what's happening but he is lying to you and making it seem like you're crazy and over reacting. You're not! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Hand him a copy of the book Not Just Friends Then he will know why you have concerns (IF he reads it). I'd be more concerned that he's dismissing how his behavior makes YOU feel. He's not respecting you and he doesn't seem to care about you. That would be another huge red flag for me. Have you demanded counseling? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 He has not had infidelities before but he had emailed anonymous women in the past asking for pictures. I caught him before it went anywhere. I did offer to go to China with him and He did not disagree to me going with him. Just making sure you know you can't just get on a plane and go to China, you need a visa from the Chinese embassy one usually applies for a month or two in advance. The application has to be in person, though there are services that will do this for you. Hong Kong is the exception to this... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I would buy my ticket ASAP....and go with him. While there....I would insist on meeting her....and I would let her know beyond any shadow of a doubt...who is in charge. In addition....I would tell him how you feel and your fears....I would insist on transparency....explain why. His reaction will tell you if you have over reacted. If he continues to be sneaky, if he denies without offering you comfort to reassure you.....then you indeed have something to worry about. If you indeed think he is in an EA.....and if he does not straighten up....go to a lawyer and get your ducks in a row.....not as a threat.....but so that you know your rights. All well and good - the first part about going, showing who's in charge, etc. - but the 'being in charge' won't penetrate the steaminess they've already built up between them. As people have written before, the initial attraction/flattery/seductiveness and getting-to-know-you flirting can create a drive and mindset that sees/hears nothing to stop it. He won't pay attention and neither will she. It will just be postponed. I think Mrs. JA has all the components but the order of events should be in reverse: See the lawyer, tell him you did and why - "how you feel and your fears," insist on transparency AND go with him on the trip. But do not be angry or whiny about any of it. Just honest and stress that you'd enjoy going and would like to share his interests, so it doesn't seem parental or punishing. He WILL pay attention to the fact that you've gone to a lawyer. He may argue and get defensive because in his mind he hasn't 'done' anything yet. He may not be happy about it, but it will curb his activities IF you also go with him. (If you don't, the part of his thinking that's absolutely convinced you'll never find out will continue doing its deception.) Up to now, he's been trying to throw you off the scent, gaslighting when you asked him about the different things that make you uncomfortable and - most important - tricking himself into not thinking that anything he's doing is wrong or will have consequences. Those kinds of thoughts wouldn't have allowed him to enjoy this newfound source of flattery and delight. The question is what will change his thinking—the denial and self-deception (maybe even blame-shifting)—that allows a Wayward to start drifting and stay off course. If he minimizes and deflects his part in the events that made you take action, then you need marriage counseling. Just to underscore that I did ALL these things except go to a lawyer. I even went to another country and tried to interact with a woman in love with my WH. She ignored me and wouldn't speak to me. Be prepared for that and don't be bothered by it. It just means your suspicions were true. Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) But do not be angry or whiny about any of it. Just honest ... My experience with my husband in general is that defensiveness comes first, and accountability, some kind of remorse and acknowledgement of pain, later. You have every right to complain and show your hurt, but telling him you went to a lawyer may not elicit remorse for his actions at that moment. It does, however, put him on notice. And he needs to be. One more clarification regarding the "woman in love with my WH": The details aren't relevant. My point is that the "just friends" thinking keeps the WS in denial. Therefore, going on the trip and showing HER who's "in charge" may not make a ripple in his attitude. Edited February 10, 2016 by merrmeade Link to post Share on other sites
Liam1 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) In those applicable states: Unless she is the higher earner, his infidelity would not likely affect any alimony she is entitled to. If she is, it could reduce any alimony she would owe him. If she does not earn as much as him, a court will not award her any additional money she is not otherwise entitled to. In other words, it does award the loyal spouse additional money only reduces any alimony he/she may owe the WS. You're right about the email. Absolute contract. It's all about the intent of the parties. She needs to talk to an attorney in HER state to get firm answers. In a divorce a judge has a lot of latitude, and although he may not have to by law award her more, infidelity is very often a mitigating factor leading to a judge awarding more to the faithful spouse. But without proof, she does not have a leg to stand on. She needs proof. Edited February 10, 2016 by Liam1 paragraph spacing Link to post Share on other sites
OneLov Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 She needs to talk to an attorney in HER state to get firm answers. In a divorce a judge has a lot of latitude, and although he may not have to by law award her more, infidelity is very often a mitigating factor leading to a judge awarding more to the faithful spouse. But without proof, she does not have a leg to stand on. She needs proof. I agree she should see an attorney in her state. A mitigating factor is one that lessens or reduces. It reduces any alimony she may owe him but would not lessen any amounts he would owe her. However, it will not increase any amount he would owe her. Alimony is equitable and should not include amounts that are basically punitive damages. If he is the higher earner, his infidelity will not affect any amounts she is owed (all states). It may only reduce the amount (if any) she would owe him (majority of states). Or it might have no effect (minority of states). Link to post Share on other sites
BettyDraper Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Last September 2015, my husband travelled for business to China. Since his return, he has been chatting with a woman who he met there. She was someone assigned to translate for him. They have been chatting via WeChat (Chinese facebook) and he had❤ many of her posts, especially the ones of her face. He has privately messaged her to send him pictures of herself, to tell her she looks good and even to say that he hopes to see her once he found out he was returning in January 2016. When I confronted him, he simply said that there was nothing sexual, that they were just friends and that I was overreacting. I don't think he did anything sexual with her but I feel that if there was the opportunity, he may have. I also feel that if I had not found out about it, he would probably still be chatting to her still (I asked him to delete her profile). A few weeks ago, I looked in his translation app and saw phrases like, "if you are not doing anything later, maybe a can get together" or "you look beautiful tonight". When I confronted him, he simply says he doesn't remember. He is supposed to return to China in march and I am so stressed. He said that nothing happened and that nothing will. Am I over reacting?. What can I do? No! You aren't overreacting at all! Your husband is being completely disrespectful and I'm sorry to say that he has probably slept with the woman he is chatting with. If not, he is certainly planning to. Tell your husband that if he goes to China, that will be the end of your marriage. Stand up for yourself. Men will treat women the way we allow them to and your husband knows that he can do whatever he wants with no interference from his wife. He is clearly not trustworthy enough to travel on business. Link to post Share on other sites
TrustedthenBusted Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Well, don't forget in some states, if she is a higher wage earner, he can ask her for alimony. If she has proof he cheated, and divorces, she will still have the upper hand. She needs to get proof. I get that you wouldn't walk across the street to prevent a cheating spouse, you would just walk. Maybe you can afford to pay a cheating spouse alimony. Who knows. But really all that matter is what this OP wants to do. I'm not suggesting she just walk away. I was suggesting that going all the way to China just to attempt to prevent him from cheating is extreme. If he is going to do it, he is going to do it, whether it's with the woman in China, or somewhere else. You can't go through your life trying to keep your husband's junk in his pants. That is no way to live. Better, in my opinion, to act normal, and let him dig his own grave. Once you have proof, you can drop the hammer if that's what you want to do. Better to know, and act, than to spin your wheels feeling doubt or trying to prevent it, merely by being an obstacle. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Liam1 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I agree she should see an attorney in her state. A mitigating factor is one that lessens or reduces. It reduces any alimony she may owe him but would not lessen any amounts he would owe her. However, it will not increase any amount he would owe her. Yes, exactly the cheating will mitigate or lessen the "no fault" factor in her favor in many ways, if she can prove he cheated. Proof is the operative work, not just guessing. Alimony is equitable and should not include amounts that are basically punitive damages. If he is the higher earner, his infidelity will not affect any amounts she is owed (all states). It may only reduce the amount (if any) she would owe him (majority of states). Or it might have no effect (minority of states). I think we are on the same page here. Even in a no fault state, the infidelity will mitigate or lessen the existence of "no fault". The judge can choose to award higher alimony to a her or less alimony to him, depending on who earns more because of the infidelity. He does not have great latitude but he has some latitude. But the bottom line is she needs to talk to a good divorce attorney in her State, one who is familiar with the local judges and their temperaments. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Liam1 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Once you have proof, you can drop the hammer if that's what you want to do. Better to know, and act, than to spin your wheels feeling doubt or trying to prevent it, merely by being an obstacle. Exactly, "once you have proof." She needs to go to China with him to actually get the proof. Link to post Share on other sites
OneLov Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 But how are you going to get tangible proof? Record his conversations with her, access his email without authorization, track his whereabouts in private and without his knowledge, or commit any other unlawful act? That evidence won't be allowed in court. You'd have to wait until he screwed up again by leaving his email open or follow him until you have photos in a public forum. Why do that? Don't give him so much satisfaction or exhaust emotional energy because the law provides her with same alimony she would otherwise be entitled to receive (not pay) regardless of the reason for the divorce. You don't have to risk your life being a PI or flying all over the global spending a lot of unnecessary money. You can just say I'm done, file, and get the same. That's the purpose of the law. You don't have to go to extraordinary lengths. Now if she would owe him, she has a vested interest to get proof to reduce any alimony she may owe. But she must obtain the proof lawfully. Link to post Share on other sites
Liam1 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 But how are you going to get tangible proof? Record his conversations with her, access his email without authorization, track his whereabouts in private and without his knowledge, or commit any other unlawful act? That evidence won't be allowed in court. You'd have to wait until he screwed up again by leaving his email open or follow him until you have photos in a public forum. Why do that? Don't give him so much satisfaction or exhaust emotional energy because the law provides her with same alimony she would otherwise be entitled to receive (not pay) regardless of the reason for the divorce. You don't have to risk your life being a PI or flying all over the global spending a lot of unnecessary money. You can just say I'm done, file, and get the same. That's the purpose of the law. You don't have to go to extraordinary lengths. Now if she would owe him, she has a vested interest to get proof to reduce any alimony she may owe. But she must obtain the proof lawfully. Huh! The original poster asked for advice on what to do. She obviously needs to know for her own sake whether or not her husband is cheating. She wisely does not want to guess for the rest of her life. PI's get proof all the time. None are prosecuted. What happens on a public street is in the public domain...kissing, holding hands, going out to dinner, drinking, dancing close, undressing in a parked car, going into a locked hotel room, etc. As for risking her life being a PI or by flying to china, Huh! I don't know of any PIs that have ever been killed in the line of duty. They are typically in stealth mode, and know the limits of the law. Now a cop or a firefighter, that's dangerous. Airplane crashes are rare, too. Much much rarer than a car accident. I guess the OP can live in a bubble, to protect her from life, both physically and factually, but hey, maybe she's allergic to soap, and could die from anaphylactic shock inside that bubble. It does not appear that she is allergic to wanting the truth, though. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BuddyX Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 It's a catch 22. Go with him and obviously he's not going to cheat. Let him travel alone and he might do something 5K miles away without your knowledge. From personal experience, the red flag for me was when my Ex greated me at the airport. No kiss, no emotion, just a forced hug. I got on all the comms (emails, txt), and within 2months I had enough proof that something happened on the trip. Wish you luck Link to post Share on other sites
Author Naomiw Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 Thanks for the information so far. Many things to think about. I get the sense that my husband is testing his attractiveness (something similar to another thread that I read earlier). I just needed a reality check. Can I ask some of the men to respond to this one question (Ladies can too but I particularly want to hear from men). If you are in this similar situation as my husband (let's say for the sake of argument that he had only tested, is tempted but hasnt done anything sexual yet). What could your wife do to bring you back, to make you refocus on the great marriage that you both worked so hard to pull together in 20+ years. Or is it hopeless. Don't get me wrong. I am not naive nor in denial. The romantic in me just hopes that there is still trust, love, and faithfulness in the world. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BuddyX Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 That's easy. 3 days in a row before the trip give him the best lovin. Make it extra "spicy". Tell him, there's so much more left for him when he gets back. During the trip, take pics of you lingerie and send him every night and assure him, it's waiting for him. Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyFootprints Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I'm on board with the Not Just Friends suggestion. You know what's up. There isn't much you can do to stop the derailment. At this point it's up to him. Sexy lingerie and erotic pics aren't going to sway him. Babysitting him and being his warden will likely drive him deeper into the hole he is digging. At this point, with as much knowledge as you have, I'd find a lawyer and tape the divorce papers inside the book, along with the numbers of an Individual Counsellor and a Marriage Counsellor. He needs to understand that under no uncertain terms is his behaviour acceptable and there will be consequences if he continues to indulge. Make it very clear that you will not tolerate his behaviour. Then step back and take care of you. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 My husband travels very frequently on business. i go with him a few times a year...just because he is gone so much. If i thought there was any inappropriate activity.....I would absolutely be accompanying him...and I would set anyone straight that i thought was crossing any lines. My husband has a man that works for him ...that is 6'7"...and he is scared of me. I am 5'1"....but do not blindside my husband...this man did something I thought was inappropriate and i let him know ....you better NEVER do this to him again. I am not his boss...but don't think for one second that i cannot influence my husband, My point is this...if you travel to China...you insist that you meet this chick...you let her know...this is my man....and i will do ANYTHING to keep him...keep your f##cking hands off of him....she will think again if she has any intentions of becoming an American citizen. you let her know that you will ruin her precious career as a translator. and then...you let your husband know...you will get EVERY damn penny he has...you will take him for everything. Take charge my dear...you have the upper hand here....use it. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyFootprints Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Unless he convinced me that he wanted me there by his side, beyond any reasonable doubt, I wouldn't be travelling to China or anywhere else to claw someone's eyes out, even as a threat. I'd hand him his passport and tell him to be on his merry way. It's up to him to establish and enforce his boundaries. (Though a trip to China would be an amazing travel opportunity!) Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 oh not me...I would not go down without a fight I would let this woman know she has met her match now...if I found out he was not worth fighting for...I would give her my blessing...lol good luck chickie....I will get most of his assets and money.....go for it! 5 Link to post Share on other sites
hippychick3 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 If any woman wanted my man while he was with me and was able to get him to sleep with her, she could have him. If I had to accompany him on a trip to prevent him from cheating, I wouldn't stay with him. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts