Am I over-reacting?

[Erdbeere]

I have self respect & assume that you are going to treat me like a lady. It has never failed. But I'm gracious about. While I draw clear boundaries I don't bite people's heads off for missteps.

 

 

Even if this guy isn't treating ES the way she wants, that is no excuse for her or anybody to stoop to the lower level & meet rudeness with escalating rudeness. Her responses are fueling the problem, not advancing toward a solution.

 

Absolutely agree.

[dobielover]

I think this is why you're single. You were just a straight up b*tch to him. Nothing feminine in your responses to cajole him into the right direction. Just a slap down.

 

"I know my way around a kitchen, but I've been craving X restaurant...?" would have gone over so much better.

 

Don't tell men you're waiting to have sex, just wait. Don't create circumstances to have it, and don't vocalize boundaries. Just erect them.

 

And if he's such a serious man, why are you being playful with him with the "Do you? ;)" bit and then getting angry with him when he's playful with you?

[No_Go]

I shared that I never met a man as an adult even on OLD who seemed to only want sex. I'm not naïve or sheltered. I dated a lot. So I find it interesting that other women have the experience of only meeting jerks.

 

Reading that, I am more and more convinced it is about the attitude and presentation of the dating partner.

 

Same experience as you. I haven't dated a lot, but none of the guys that I've met was after me ONLY for sex. I've heard this from girlfriends though. The difference: they are overly flirtatious and act "girly", guys get wrong signals.

 

I have encountered genuinely bad men in OLD, but even they were pushing for relationship with me, not ONS.

 

When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

 

 

The guy asked for early sex. ES said no. He apologized -- repeatedly.

 

 

In their exchanges I found her statements to be more inappropriate then his. That is my opinion. You, she & Gaeta might not share it. That's OK but your differing point of view doesn't negate my opinion.

 

 

I'm a firm believer in giving people second chances. ES said she thought he was insincere. Based on what she posted here, I challenged that conclusion because honestly I don't see it. I see a guy who is trying a bunch of women who want to eviscerate the guy because he had the temerity to suggest a home cooked dinner together. Granted his word choice -- making it a demand rather than a request -- was bad but again, he is trying.

 

 

She -- and you -- can date or not date anybody you want.

 

 

My opinion is that ES isn't helping the situation here.

 

 

Unlike you I haven't attacked anybody. I made suggestions & observations.

 

 

I shared that I never met a man as an adult even on OLD who seemed to only want sex. I'm not naïve or sheltered. I dated a lot. So I find it interesting that other women have the experience of only meeting jerks. Heck the 3 guys I met off OLD bought me dinner. All were respectful & interesting on paper. None made my motor run but they were all good, solid gentleman. One of my dear friends who happens to be a psychologist once commented to me that she never knew a woman before me who knew so man genuinely good guys. I always thought it was my attitude: I have self respect & assume that you are going to treat me like a lady. It has never failed. But I'm gracious about. While I draw clear boundaries I don't bite people's heads off for missteps.

 

 

Even if this guy isn't treating ES the way she wants, that is no excuse for her or anybody to stoop to the lower level & meet rudeness with escalating rudeness. Her responses are fueling the problem, not advancing toward a solution.

[dobielover]

When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

 

 

The guy asked for early sex. ES said no. He apologized -- repeatedly.

 

 

In their exchanges I found her statements to be more inappropriate then his. That is my opinion. You, she & Gaeta might not share it. That's OK but your differing point of view doesn't negate my opinion.

 

 

I'm a firm believer in giving people second chances. ES said she thought he was insincere. Based on what she posted here, I challenged that conclusion because honestly I don't see it. I see a guy who is trying a bunch of women who want to eviscerate the guy because he had the temerity to suggest a home cooked dinner together. Granted his word choice -- making it a demand rather than a request -- was bad but again, he is trying.

 

 

She -- and you -- can date or not date anybody you want.

 

 

My opinion is that ES isn't helping the situation here.

 

 

Unlike you I haven't attacked anybody. I made suggestions & observations.

 

 

I shared that I never met a man as an adult even on OLD who seemed to only want sex. I'm not naïve or sheltered. I dated a lot. So I find it interesting that other women have the experience of only meeting jerks. Heck the 3 guys I met off OLD bought me dinner. All were respectful & interesting on paper. None made my motor run but they were all good, solid gentleman. One of my dear friends who happens to be a psychologist once commented to me that she never knew a woman before me who knew so man genuinely good guys. I always thought it was my attitude: I have self respect & assume that you are going to treat me like a lady. It has never failed. But I'm gracious about. While I draw clear boundaries I don't bite people's heads off for missteps.

 

 

Even if this guy isn't treating ES the way she wants, that is no excuse for her or anybody to stoop to the lower level & meet rudeness with escalating rudeness. Her responses are fueling the problem, not advancing toward a solution.

 

Totally totally agree.

[d0nnivain]

Same experience as you. I haven't dated a lot, but none of the guys that I've met was after me ONLY for sex. I've heard this from girlfriends though. The difference: they are overly flirtatious and act "girly", guys get wrong signals. .

 

 

I am a shameless flirt but there are definite boundaries.

 

 

Even if a guy asked or suggested early sex, before I wanted it, I politely but definitively said no but I took it as a compliment. I never got the continued pressure in the face of a firm no, but it would have caused me to stop talking to the guy. One ask & an acceptance of my No was not a huge problem. Really nobody pushed the issue.

 

Remember men & women are wired differently. We need to feel loved to have sex. Men need sex to feel loved.

 

 

BTW, FWIW I met my husband in a bar. Seriously.

[katiegrl]

When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

 

 

The guy asked for early sex. ES said no. He apologized -- repeatedly.

 

 

In their exchanges I found her statements to be more inappropriate then his. That is my opinion. You, she & Gaeta might not share it. That's OK but your differing point of view doesn't negate my opinion.

 

 

I'm a firm believer in giving people second chances. ES said she thought he was insincere. Based on what she posted here, I challenged that conclusion because honestly I don't see it. I see a guy who is trying a bunch of women who want to eviscerate the guy because he had the temerity to suggest a home cooked dinner together. Granted his word choice -- making it a demand rather than a request -- was bad but again, he is trying.

 

 

She -- and you -- can date or not date anybody you want.

 

 

My opinion is that ES isn't helping the situation here.

 

 

Unlike you I haven't attacked anybody. I made suggestions & observations.

 

 

I shared that I never met a man as an adult even on OLD who seemed to only want sex. I'm not naïve or sheltered. I dated a lot. So I find it interesting that other women have the experience of only meeting jerks. Heck the 3 guys I met off OLD bought me dinner. All were respectful & interesting on paper. None made my motor run but they were all good, solid gentleman. One of my dear friends who happens to be a psychologist once commented to me that she never knew a woman before me who knew so man genuinely good guys. I always thought it was my attitude: I have self respect & assume that you are going to treat me like a lady. It has never failed. But I'm gracious about. While I draw clear boundaries I don't bite people's heads off for missteps.

 

 

Even if this guy isn't treating ES the way she wants, that is no excuse for her or anybody to stoop to the lower level & meet rudeness with escalating rudeness. Her responses are fueling the problem, not advancing toward a solution.

 

Agree, and ES what happened to the three great dates you had prior to this? You liked him, were attracted to him....felt very positive about him!

 

What happened to all that?

 

So, one comment made via text, for which he apologized, and my god based on your reaction, one would think you had been dating him for years and just discovered he cheated or something equally egregious.

 

Just stop dating him. You don't like him, that's obvious. So do him a favor and move on.

[No_Go]

I just got an epiphany while reading this tread - ES, do you mind asking where are you from originally? I vaguely remember Eastern Europe from another tread of yours, apologies if it was another poster.

 

This will explain most of it. Cultural differences. I am Eastern European too, and maybe because this part of the world is poorer, people take home cooking as an offense (eating out is glorified). Also there are different attitudes to sex in this part of the world...

 

I was reacting similarly to her regarding cooking when I moved to the Netherlands, to the surprise of the people there LOL. It took me some time to flip mindsets (and sadly I still don't know how to cook )

[RedRobin]

When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

 

 

The guy asked for early sex. ES said no. He apologized -- repeatedly.

 

 

In their exchanges I found her statements to be more inappropriate then his. That is my opinion. You, she & Gaeta might not share it. That's OK but your differing point of view doesn't negate my opinion.

 

 

I'm a firm believer in giving people second chances. ES said she thought he was insincere. Based on what she posted here, I challenged that conclusion because honestly I don't see it. I see a guy who is trying a bunch of women who want to eviscerate the guy because he had the temerity to suggest a home cooked dinner together. Granted his word choice -- making it a demand rather than a request -- was bad but again, he is trying.

 

 

She -- and you -- can date or not date anybody you want.

 

 

My opinion is that ES isn't helping the situation here.

 

 

Unlike you I haven't attacked anybody. I made suggestions & observations.

 

 

I shared that I never met a man as an adult even on OLD who seemed to only want sex. I'm not naïve or sheltered. I dated a lot. So I find it interesting that other women have the experience of only meeting jerks. Heck the 3 guys I met off OLD bought me dinner. All were respectful & interesting on paper. None made my motor run but they were all good, solid gentleman. One of my dear friends who happens to be a psychologist once commented to me that she never knew a woman before me who knew so man genuinely good guys. I always thought it was my attitude: I have self respect & assume that you are going to treat me like a lady. It has never failed. But I'm gracious about. While I draw clear boundaries I don't bite people's heads off for missteps.

 

 

Even if this guy isn't treating ES the way she wants, that is no excuse for her or anybody to stoop to the lower level & meet rudeness with escalating rudeness. Her responses are fueling the problem, not advancing toward a solution.

 

I'd say that texting is a horrible form of communication. If ES is going to make some changes, I'd suggest moving away from that.

 

You didn't do a lot of online dating. The problems myself and others have encountered have mostly come about with men from OLD. It's why I am very, very selective about who I meet online. This guy is par for the course.

 

As for turning down suggestions politely. I think she has. She hasn't ripped his head off. Rude?? What's rude about telling someone she's not into having sex early? Yea, I'd be annoyed too, if a guy who claimed to be looking for a relationship tried to float this.

 

Look, I work around all men. I am no stranger to the friendly banter, the teasing, and setting a guy back on course without feelings getting hurt. IRL, men DO tend to act better. Most of the men who approached me IRL would never think of the crap guys online suggest. Their filters are off. They think they have nothing to lose because their are no built in social penalties for making a wrong move....

 

this guy has some very bad habits. The minute he said 'I am tired of hookups' he would have been done for me. He has shown that's all he knows how to do, really. Sure, maybe with a lot of effort, ES could train him up, but why???

[katiegrl]

I just got an epiphany while reading this tread - ES, do you mind asking where are you from originally? I vaguely remember Eastern Europe from another tread of yours, apologies if it was another poster.

 

This will explain most of it. Cultural differences. I am Eastern European too, and maybe because this part of the world is poorer, people take home cooking as an offense (eating out is glorified). Also there are different attitudes to sex in this part of the world...

 

I was reacting similarly to her regarding cooking when I moved to the Netherlands, to the surprise of the people there LOL. It took me some time to flip mindsets (and sadly I still don't know how to cook )

 

I am Eastern/Northern European and I do not have this attitude.

[No_Go]

definite boundaries - here is the deal.

 

My (very unexperienced and religious) BF asked me to go home with him on the second date. I said no - no big deal. We still were intimate relatively early on because I wanted it, but there was no pressure. Same as what you described.

 

We need to feel loved to have sex. Men need sex to feel loved. - IDK. I never experienced the love-sex connection. Maybe because I waited till my late 20s to have sex, and developed very rational attitude about it.

 

I am a shameless flirt but there are definite boundaries.

 

 

Even if a guy asked or suggested early sex, before I wanted it, I politely but definitively said no but I took it as a compliment. I never got the continued pressure in the face of a firm no, but it would have caused me to stop talking to the guy. One ask & an acceptance of my No was not a huge problem. Really nobody pushed the issue.

 

Remember men & women are wired differently. We need to feel loved to have sex. Men need sex to feel loved.

 

 

BTW, FWIW I met my husband in a bar. Seriously.

[No_Go]

At what age did you immigrate? I was 22 when I left the Balkans and at that age, the attitudes are pretty much formed.

 

I think the only reason I was able to flex is that I never dated back there, so my whole experience with men developed in a multicultural setting.

 

I am Eastern/Northern European and I do not have this attitude.

[RedRobin]

I am a shameless flirt but there are definite boundaries.

 

 

Even if a guy asked or suggested early sex, before I wanted it, I politely but definitively said no but I took it as a compliment. I never got the continued pressure in the face of a firm no, but it would have caused me to stop talking to the guy. One ask & an acceptance of my No was not a huge problem. Really nobody pushed the issue.

 

Remember men & women are wired differently. We need to feel loved to have sex. Men need sex to feel loved.

 

 

BTW, FWIW I met my husband in a bar. Seriously.

 

I guess that's where we differ. I never took it as a compliment. Not really. Lots of guys will screw anything. Guys that ask early are cast net fishing. Nothing to let go to your head.

 

I am also not into the gender stereotypes. I am perfectly capable of having sex with no feelings. There are lots of men who want an emotional connection before sex. I think guys who press for early sex have poor judgement. heck, this guy stated up front that he screws anything, lol. So, ES is supposed to feel special because....um....why????

 

Dunno. Logic seems backwards. Fine if playing around is all you are after.

 

And as far as meeting your H in a bar, I believe this was for some kind of organized function or fundraiser or something?? If I recall. I have gone to many of those events in a 'bar'. A whole lot different than the regular bar scene, lol.

[No_Go]

So, ES is supposed to feel special because... A person feels special because they believe in themselves, not because someone treats them in a certain way.

 

It will be soooo unrealistic to think this guy so the "special woman" in her, after 3 (three) dates. He seem to be very attracted to her though, that's it. The "specialness" comes later, and it is something that you earn IMO.

 

I guess that's where we differ. I never took it as a compliment. Not really. Lots of guys will screw anything. Guys that ask early are cast net fishing. Nothing to let go to your head.

 

I am also not into the gender stereotypes. I am perfectly capable of having sex with no feelings. There are lots of men who want an emotional connection before sex. I think guys who press for early sex have poor judgement. heck, this guy stated up front that he screws anything, lol. So, ES is supposed to feel special because....um....why????

 

Dunno. Logic seems backwards. Fine if playing around is all you are after.

 

And as far as meeting your H in a bar, I believe this was for some kind of organized function or fundraiser or something?? If I recall. I have gone to many of those events in a 'bar'. A whole lot different than the regular bar scene, lol.

[RedRobin]

As for the other posts.... dinner at nome not suggesting sex, well, not sure where folks are from, but that's definitely code in most Western countries. Unless a parent is there. As for the Netherlands and places much more liberal than the U.S... Like say, Scandinavian countries?? If they just want sex, they say so. Here in the U.S., and where ES is from, the netflix and chill thing means sex.

[]

 

I think you ladies must put up with an awful lot of crap from the men you date. Why is it that women are the ones who always need to be 'nice' with behavior like this?? He was being manipulative and passive aggressive.

 

There isn't a sincere bone in his body. Cripes, even his apology is fake. He showed who he was on date one. (Into hookups). He confirmed who he was on date three. Little baby man boy who needs to push and see what he can get away with... Oh, so he can 'apologize'. Gawd. This is exhausting already.

Edited February 7, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[RedRobin]

So, ES is supposed to feel special because... A person feels special because they believe in themselves, not because someone treats them in a certain way.

 

It will be soooo unrealistic to think this guy so the "special woman" in her, after 3 (three) dates. He seem to be very attracted to her though, that's it. The "specialness" comes later, and it is something that you earn IMO.

 

That's right. Feeling special about oneself means not putting up with guys like this who don't have a clue how to treat anyone special.

 

WTF? Why should ES want to 'earn' anything with this, um, 'guy'.

 

Look, a guy pushing for sex doesn't mean shyte. Doesn't mean he is attracted to her. At all. It means her parts will do. Nothing more. He's pretty much proven that. And that's what he admitted on the first date. Any hole will do and has for awhile. *shrug*. Can't blame people for holding him to his pattern, especially when he can't be bothered to escape it himself.

[No_Go]

I dare to say I've seen both (I've lived 6 years in the NL, 3+ years in the US), and dinner at home MAY mean sex, but not necessarily, especially that ES made it clear in advance that it will be against her consent.

 

As for the other posts.... dinner at nome not suggesting sex, well, not sure where folks are from, but that's definitely code in most Western countries. Unless a parent is there. As for the Netherlands and places much more liberal than the U.S... Like say, Scandinavian countries?? If they just want sex, they say so. Here in the U.S., and where ES is from, the netflix and chill thing means sex.

[]

 

I think you ladies must put up with an awful lot of crap from the men you date. Why is it that women are the ones who always need to be 'nice' with behavior like this?? He was being manipulative and passive aggressive.

 

There isn't a sincere bone in his body. Cripes, even his apology is fake. He showed who he was on date one. (Into hookups). He confirmed who he was on date three. Little baby man boy who needs to push and see what he can get away with... Oh, so he can 'apologize'. Gawd. This is exhausting already.

[No_Go]

However he is "treating" her in this early dating stages, it is about maintaining the relationship going, not about her or him being special.

 

You're right for one thing though (from your other post) - there is a lot of guilt and shame built around sex in the US, people have almost forgot that it is just a bio-function like going to the restroom or drinking water. THAT causes the frustrations, else sex would just be a natural development in a relationship, without being glorified or demonized, just something desired by both parties in a certain point.

 

That's right. Feeling special about oneself means not putting up with guys like this who don't have a clue how to treat anyone special.

 

WTF? Why should ES want to 'earn' anything with this, um, 'guy'.

 

Look, a guy pushing for sex doesn't mean shyte. Doesn't mean he is attracted to her. At all. It means her parts will do. Nothing more. He's pretty much proven that. And that's what he admitted on the first date. Any hole will do and has for awhile. *shrug*. Can't blame people for holding him to his pattern, especially when he can't be bothered to escape it himself.

[RedRobin]

However he is "treating" her in this early dating stages, it is about maintaining the relationship going, not about her or him being special.

 

You're right for one thing though (from your other post) - there is a lot of guilt and shame built around sex in the US, people have almost forgot that it is just a bio-function like going to the restroom or drinking water. THAT causes the frustrations, else sex would just be a natural development in a relationship, without being glorified or demonized, just something desired by both parties in a certain point.

 

Anyone who is looking for a serious relationship is wise to wait... Not because there is any guilt or shame involved in having sex... But because you don't want to have sex with *ssholes or people you are clearly incompatible with.

 

Date three... Guy shows what he is looking for. Submissive type who wants to cook for him and have sex early. Sure, some people don't know how to talk about sex and think that sleeping together early is some test of compatibility. Maybe ES does too? Not sure.

 

Regardless of the sex, it's his attitude and what he's looking for that is offensive to her. She's not the submissive type and isn't looking to be a homemaker. Yea, I am sure she gets tired of that. I am sure some of her annoyance comes from simply being discouraged that a guy she initially liked turned out to want someone more 'traditional', and has nothing to back it up with himself. Funny. He wants someone 'traditional' who has sex early. Lol. No wonder he is single. Or he is into testing women and has double standards. Lots of guys with a history of hookups play these games.

 

Yay! So much easier to give the send off and feel GOOD about it if sex isn't involved. No worries about STDs. No stories to tell. Nice clean break. And if they break it off politely, maybe they can be civil.

[jen1447]

I dare to say I've seen both (I've lived 6 years in the NL, 3+ years in the US), and dinner at home MAY mean sex, but not necessarily, especially that ES made it clear in advance that it will be against her consent.

 

^ This. 'Dinner at your/my place' or "Netflix and chill' is absolutely not an automatic sex date.

 

This is all we have to go on from OP -

 

Him: "Thank you for lunch :)"

Me: "Hope to see you again soon"

Him:"Do you want to? ;)"

Me: "Do you want to? ;)"

Him:"I do"

Him:"Don't answer a question with the question"

Him:"Next time you should cook us dinner at your place"

Him:"Show me what you can do in the kitchen" (:sick::sick:)

Me: "I would actually prefer to go out"

Him: "Of course."

Him:"Do you cook?"

Me:"Usually I work late so no. I can cook when I want to"

Him:"Oh fair enough"

Me:"I also prefer to go slow when it comes to sleeping together...just so you know. :)"

Him:"I did not ask you to have sex. Have I even tried? No"

Me:"Suggesting hanging out at home usually implies sex. I like to be direct."

Him:"Well I guess you have been hanging out with wrong guys then. I am different."

Me:"lol. So you are cool with waiting a bit?"

Him: "Absolutely. I am not a kid anymore, I am not desparate for sex."

 

He apologised.

 

Texted me today and said: "look I am sorry if I offended you but I felt like things were moving forward between us and that would be a nice way to spend an evening together"

 

Me: "so you weren't joking?"

 

Him: "no it was a real suggestion"

Me: "I really don't like being told what to do."

Him: "I would be more than happy for you to come to my place. I will cook for you and no sex :)"

 

He now said: please let me take you out for dinner and theatre after to make it up to you.

Edited February 7, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[William]

Gentle reminder regarding our civility and respect guidelines before the offenders get the hose. Some edits were performed to retain topical content. Thanks!

[No_Go]

I see what you mean for sex early in, although...id also say better not date *ssholes. Mature people (like ES) will likely spot these on meet 1.

 

Regarding submissive type: cooking home doesn't mean submission, it is a hobby for many people. I personally don't cook but my BF and exes have been amazing cooks, and I never though of them as submissive because they have made me great dinners daily.

 

Anyone who is looking for a serious relationship is wise to wait... Not because there is any guilt or shame involved in having sex... But because you don't want to have sex with *ssholes or people you are clearly incompatible with.

 

Date three... Guy shows what he is looking for. Submissive type who wants to cook for him and have sex early. Sure, some people don't know how to talk about sex and think that sleeping together early is some test of compatibility. Maybe ES does too? Not sure.

 

Regardless of the sex, it's his attitude and what he's looking for that is offensive to her. She's not the submissive type and isn't looking to be a homemaker. Yea, I am sure she gets tired of that. I am sure some of her annoyance comes from simply being discouraged that a guy she initially liked turned out to want someone more 'traditional', and has nothing to back it up with himself. Funny. He wants someone 'traditional' who has sex early. Lol. No wonder he is single. Or he is into testing women and has double standards. Lots of guys with a history of hookups play these games.

 

Yay! So much easier to give the send off and feel GOOD about it if sex isn't involved. No worries about STDs. No stories to tell. Nice clean break. And if they break it off politely, maybe they can be civil.

[No_Go]

Oh, and Robin, I just recalled the following story:

I met a guy, we went on a hike, then he invited himself over in my place. The date lasted *8 hours*, half of it home alone, he WAS a player (musician with a colorful past), and ... There was no sex. I didn't feel like it .

So I can personally backup the statement that Netflix and chill doesn't necessarily result into sex (or anything sexual, I'm strictly against sexual play leading to nowhere so I do not permit it unless I feel like sleeping with the man).

[katiegrl]

I feel kinda sorry for this guy.

 

ES came down really hard on him....when he was probably making a joke, or interjecting some light banter.

 

I give him credit for acknowledging her feelings (and misinterpretation) and apologizing.

 

Sounds like a good guy to me.

Edited February 7, 2016 by katiegrl

[Erdbeere]

I feel kinda sorry for this guy.

 

ES came down really hard on him....when he was probably making a joke, or interjecting some light banter.

 

I give him credit for acknowledging her feelings (and misinterpretation) and apologizing.

 

Sounds like a good guy to me.

 

Agree totally.

[Eternal Sunshine]

This has nothing to with my bluntness or my cultural background.

 

To re-iterate:

 

1. Through all my years and years of dating, this is only the second time in my life where I said that I want to wait for sex. Every other time I would just dodge the situations that would lead to sex until I was ready.

 

2. I only became "blunt" when I was done with this guy. I was no longer trying to work it out.

 

3. For what it's worth, this guy does not come from an English speaking country and has nearly the same cultural background as me.

 

Please let's leave my culture, my "personality" or anything personal out of it.