" I will NEVER cheat again." FWS's??

[understand50]

In every relationship, there is the possibility of cheating. You must trust for the moment, but when things do not "feel right" go and find out why. I think those that say they need 100% trust are doomed, it will never be there.

 

Because, "our" relationship was "tested" early, I always knew this could happen again, and to both of us. I have not, and do not, make my wife life a living hell wondering if she is stepping across a line, but I know that cheating is possible.

 

If you look at cheating as a set of odds, you could add 5% Just for being alive and having genitals, 5% if it happened in the past, and another %, depending on what is going on in your lives. Is your relationship strong? are you getting along? Is one of you in a job or environment where they have access to and time for an affair? Knowing the risk, you can help each other from going to far.

 

BTW, this is just marriage 101. I am aware of what is going on in my wife's life, and she mine. I am open and she as well. She knows who my friends are, both sexes, and I hers. If I found she had cheated, it was because she had to really work at keeping it a secret. Dose not mean it wont happen, but she is really going to have to want and think about cheating. There are times in everyone life when you are "open" to the idea of cheating. Whether cheating happens sometime depends on how hard it is to follow up with the idea or a question of opportunity.

 

My two cents......

[Mrs. John Adams]

understand50.....opportunity is the key word to me in your post. You don't know how many times in the past 32 years....I have wished I had never gone back to college. If I had just stayed in my little world as i knew it....but i didn't....and I cannot undo what I have done.

 

John and I have no friends of the opposite sex...we have couples as friends but i dont have male friends and he doesn't have women friends.....we have always been pretty anti social.....but I will admit....my affair changed a lot for me. I am much less social and friendly.....and have become pretty reclusive.

 

My daughter asked me to go out for a GNO yesterday....a painting class with drinks.....I said no thank you. First....I know John would be home alone. Second...He would not like it...Third...I am not interested. I felt bad.....but it was the right decision for me. She has never asked me to go on a GNO.....so her friends must have turned her down or she needed me to pay for it all...lol

 

Anyway....i am pretty confident I will never cheat again....but I of course thought that before...and I know anything is possible so I will never say never.....so I will stick at 99%.......

[merrmeade]

understand50.....opportunity is the key word to me in your post. You don't know how many times in the past 32 years....I have wished I had never gone back to college. If I had just stayed in my little world as i knew it....but i didn't....and I cannot undo what I have done.

 

John and I have no friends of the opposite sex...we have couples as friends but i dont have male friends and he doesn't have women friends.....we have always been pretty anti social.....but I will admit....my affair changed a lot for me. I am much less social and friendly.....and have become pretty reclusive.

 

My daughter asked me to go out for a GNO yesterday....a painting class with drinks.....I said no thank you. First....I know John would be home alone. Second...He would not like it...Third...I am not interested. I felt bad.....but it was the right decision for me. She has never asked me to go on a GNO.....so her friends must have turned her down or she needed me to pay for it all...lol

 

Anyway....i am pretty confident I will never cheat again....but I of course thought that before...and I know anything is possible so I will never say never.....so I will stick at 99%.......

This is really interesting to me, Mrs. JA. You've said similar things many times. Reading it this time, however, I realized you really mean it! I think you're serious and not just suggesting it for our sake, so to speak. Maybe you really have imagined yourself getting into a conversation with an engaging, intelligent older gentleman, someone clearly well traveled, confident, independent and independently wealthy, personable, healthy/fit, considerate (perfect) — but mainly and most important, aware of the uniquely fascinating beauty, talent and acuity that you emanate and drew him to you out of everyone else in the room. As you chat, you feel recognized and appreciated for your intelligence and originality, and you both become more interesting and charming the more you say. And so on...

 

Maybe you've even imagined such a possibility. Have you? (Or should I just turn this into a romance novel?)

[merrmeade]

Also sort of suggesting/wondering if this isn't what it's like for other fWSs. This is what my fWH says over and over. He calls the "flirting" flattery, says it's the key aspect. I see it as an aspect of narcissism. You see yourself reflected.

[TrustedthenBusted]

The way it feels for me...it's not like I don't trust my wife not to cheat. Trusting her not to cheat on me is not the thing that makes me doubt our future.

 

It's living with the knowledge that on some level, she feels ( or felt ) that her life and choices are more important than mine. Or something along those lines.

 

I have always acted in a way that let her know that I have as vested an interest in her life as I do my own. And she obviously didn't feel the same way.

 

The issue for me is really no longer about infidelity at all. I live in absolutely NO fear of that happening again.

 

The fear, if there is any, has something to do with wondering if she as an appropriate level of respect for me as a human being and partner.

 

If we were in business together, I would have dissolved that partnership. But marriage is obviously much more than a business.

[merrmeade]

The way it feels for me...it's not like I don't trust my wife not to cheat. Trusting her not to cheat on me is not the thing that makes me doubt our future.

 

It's living with the knowledge that on some level, she feels ( or felt ) that her life and choices are more important than mine. Or something along those lines.

 

I have always acted in a way that let her know that I have as vested an interest in her life as I do my own. And she obviously didn't feel the same way.

 

The issue for me is really no longer about infidelity at all. I live in absolutely NO fear of that happening again.

 

The fear, if there is any, has something to do with wondering if she as an appropriate level of respect for me as a human being and partner.

 

If we were in business together, I would have dissolved that partnership. But marriage is obviously much more than a business.

Yes, this is it. Another interpretation is that as a result of the affair, the effort to understand, and the healing is that each one is changed but also more aware of self and one's partner. Aware of what you really want and are; aware of what your partner wanted and was. Wondering what s/he really wants and is now, how much your partner actually understands and has changed. Realizing that you really don't like or share some of the same impulses or needs, especially the blind spots, which you had to learn about your partner's make-up. There's a lot more that you know now and a lot more - potentially - that you might not have dismissed if you'd known about it initially.

 

I realize there's a difference in what I'm saying and what TtB said. He's saying (I think) that he's seeing her ability and willingness to think and act separately with self interest first as opposed to his own habit/value of thinking as a unit. Sort of. I'm saying I'm seeing different qualities in my partner but they come to the same: They leave me out and put him first. So - same.

[Mrs. John Adams]

This is really interesting to me, Mrs. JA. You've said similar things many times. Reading it this time, however, I realized you really mean it! I think you're serious and not just suggesting it for our sake, so to speak. Maybe you really have imagined yourself getting into a conversation with an engaging, intelligent older gentleman, someone clearly well traveled, confident, independent and independently wealthy, personable, healthy/fit, considerate (perfect) — but mainly and most important, aware of the uniquely fascinating beauty, talent and acuity that you emanate and drew him to you out of everyone else in the room. As you chat, you feel recognized and appreciated for your intelligence and originality, and you both become more interesting and charming the more you say. And so on...

 

Maybe you've even imagined such a possibility. Have you? (Or should I just turn this into a romance novel?)

 

I am not sure what you are asking me merrmeade...

[drifter777]

I've said it before. I'd be more trusting of him if he admitted even a fraction of a percent of doubt.

 

I trust me 100%. I don't have it in me anymore. It's not who I am.

 

I just don't understand how he trusts me 100%. I doubt him more than he claims to doubt me.

 

In fact, he'd prefer that I let down my boundaries and move on.

 

As ironic as it is, that's how trust is working around here. And, yes, I have a very difficult time trying to wrap my pea-brain around that.

Is it possible that your "100% trust" never existed anyway? By that I mean you cannot put a percentage on how much you trusted him before the A. You simply had a good deal of trust but if you saw him flirting with another woman you'd feel threatened. Now, 100% means that you would not feel threatened. So maybe the question is meaningless in that you likely never trusted completely anyway and after an affair you are going to be much more vigilant regarding your spouses interactions with opposite sex. Call the less trust than before.

 

There are statistics that suggest that a cheater is more likely to cheat again than a person who never cheated. It makes sense to me because a cheater has already proven they can do it. That massive boundary has been broken once and it's easier to cross it the second time. I'm not saying "once a cheater always a cheater" because those same statistics reveal that it's "more likely" but the majority of them don't cheat a second time.

 

TrustedthenBusted: Your wife would have told you the same thing before she cheated the first time with the same level of commitment and passion. I think you know that there's no sure thing so you're going to have to play this one by ear for the rest of your married life.

[Whoknew30]

As both BS & WS, I'm ok with not having a 100% trust from my H or giving him 100%. I never have any desire to ever cheat again, after doing it the first time, i learned a lot. I don't like living that way not only bc of my H but for myself.

[ladydesigner]

The fear, if there is any, has something to do with wondering if she as an appropriate level of respect for me as a human being and partner.

 

If we were in business together, I would have dissolved that partnership. But marriage is obviously much more than a business.

 

This^^^ totally!

[ladydesigner]

Is it possible that your "100% trust" never existed anyway? By that I mean you cannot put a percentage on how much you trusted him before the A. You simply had a good deal of trust but if you saw him flirting with another woman you'd feel threatened. Now, 100% means that you would not feel threatened. So maybe the question is meaningless in that you likely never trusted completely anyway and after an affair you are going to be much more vigilant regarding your spouses interactions with opposite sex. Call the less trust than before.

 

There are statistics that suggest that a cheater is more likely to cheat again than a person who never cheated. It makes sense to me because a cheater has already proven they can do it. That massive boundary has been broken once and it's easier to cross it the second time. I'm not saying "once a cheater always a cheater" because those same statistics reveal that it's "more likely" but the majority of them don't cheat a second time.

 

TrustedthenBusted: Your wife would have told you the same thing before she cheated the first time with the same level of commitment and passion. I think you know that there's no sure thing so you're going to have to play this one by ear for the rest of your married life.

 

Absolutely! My WH was cheating on me waaaaaay before he got caught with the final MOW. Swore on our kids lives that he would never do it again then gave me False R.

[dichotomy]

I am not sure what you are asking me merrmeade...

 

I am pretty sure I get what turstedthenbusted and mermeade are getting at.

 

I came to understand who I had married after dDay, and I did not like her one bit, that her needs came ahead of mine, that she was so dismissive that what she had done and simply wanted ....what she wanted. That her definition of love (and sex too) was so far off what I think of love. Lots was revealed thought her betrayals and lies. We have spent years working though this.

[MuddyFootprints]

Is it possible that your "100% trust" never existed anyway? By that I mean you cannot put a percentage on how much you trusted him before the your A. You simply had a good deal of trust but if you saw him flirting with another woman you'd feel threatened. Now, 100% means that you would not feel threatened. So maybe the question is meaningless in that you likely never trusted completely anyway and after an your affair you are going to be much more vigilant regarding your spouses interactions with opposite sex. Call the less trust than before.

 

There are statistics that suggest that a cheater is more likely to cheat again than a person who never cheated. It makes sense to me because a cheater has already proven they can do it. That massive boundary has been broken once and it's easier to cross it the second time. I'm not saying "once a cheater always a cheater" because those same statistics reveal that it's "more likely" but the majority of them don't cheat a second time.

 

TrustedthenBusted: Your wife would have told you the same thing before she cheated the first time with the same level of commitment and passion. I think you know that there's no sure thing so you're going to have to play this one by ear for the rest of your married life.

 

I'm skeptical and it's pretty difficult to earn my trust, even more-so after my affair. (We were talking about that quite in-depth earlier today; we're working on it.)

 

I'm the cheater.

 

I don't want, nor do I deserve carte-blanche trust.

 

I'm the one who amplifies his suffering by continuing to beat myself up, by continually doubting his forgiveness and trust.

 

I don't know if that addressed your question. It was a little confusing.

[SolG]

I'm not wayward and never have been... but my perspective as an OW is that some of us are really stupidly clueless about infidelity until we find ourselves in its claws. And to be clear, I believe that's a finding by intent and design, not 'accident'. It's the consequences that are the unforseen part.

 

I grew up with parents that were madly and passionately in love--sometimes embarrassingly so!--until my father died. I'm also a consensual non-monogamist. While infidelity was always in my consciousness, I must say I never understood it. In my line of work (lots of travel, intense projects) I'd seen lots of infidelity but never experienced it. It waa a thing that happened as opposed to a thing that happened TO people.

 

Now... as an OW... I get it. It's destructive... unforgiving... anhilating for all involved.

 

I completely get the WS that says never again. And agree with them. Because until I experiemced it myself I had no idea. I would never be an OW again. Because now I understand and know the price. I would rather die than visit that on myself and others.

 

And I'm sure some WS are the same.

Edited January 22, 2016 by SolG

[merrmeade]

ten characters

Edited January 22, 2016 by merrmeade

[JohnAdams]

So my 2-part question to FWWs is: Do you really expect your BS to ever go back to 100% trust and confidence in your ability not to hurt them again?

 

And if not, can you content yourself with like 90%?

 

 

No, you can never expect 100% trust again.

 

 

Well, I think you will always have to live with less than 100% trust. Can you be content? Yes.

 

 

The unfortunate thing about affairs is that they are the ultimate betrayal. The one person in the world that you fully trusted is capable of inflicting that much pain and apparently at the time ok with it.

 

 

After an affair, something is lost, the innocence, the unconditional trust the guiding principles to which you live.

 

 

I think both partners in a marriage, BS and WS, after an affair will never again experience total unconditional trust. Whether that be with your WS or a new partner. Infidelity changes you forever.

Edited January 23, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[understand50]

So my 2-part question to FWWs is: Do you really expect your BS to ever go back to 100% trust and confidence in your ability not to hurt them again?

 

And if not, can you content yourself with like 90%?

 

No, you can never expect 100% trust again.

 

 

Well, I think you will always have to live with less than 100% trust. Can you be content? Yes.

 

 

The unfortunate thing about affairs is that they are the ultimate betrayal. The one person in the world that you fully trusted is capable of inflicting that much pain and apparently at the time ok with it.

 

 

After an affair, something is lost, the innocence, the unconditional trust the guiding principles to which you live.

 

 

I think both partners in a marriage, BS and WS, after an affair will never again experience total unconditional trust. Whether that be with your WS or a new partner. Infidelity changes you forever.

 

True words, and well said.

 

Again, this why reconciliation is hard. Something is lost forever, but you will have some of the same issues trusting someone new.

 

Myself, I went into marriage knowing this could, and did, happen. I do not know if in some level it made our marriage better, or we could not be a good as we could have if it had never happened. No, I am not suggesting cheating leads to a "better" marriage, but that it did occur did changed me, her and us. I think that if you are to try and make something good from all the bad and pain, is to both of you to try and become a better partner, lover, friend to each other. This assumes that you are really working to reconcile, and that is another question.

 

The idea that it will never happen again, is wrong. It did once, and can again, but if you both know this, I think the odds can go down, as you both can be on guard.

 

On the whole, I am happy with my life and our relationship. Not that is does not require continuing work. That, after all these years, may be all there supposed to be.

 

My two cents......

Edited January 23, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Mrs. John Adams]

Merrmeade...

 

You have talked about your beautiful husband many times ... About how handsome he is and successful he is... Maybe much like the man you described in your scenario. I don't know him... And maybe he is narcissistic ...

 

But I am your average 60 year old woman. I do not think when I walk into a room all eyes are on me. I don't think I am irresistible. Quite the contrary...

I only dated John and I married at 17.

 

I had no experience with men... Especially a man like your husband. I was flattered by a man just as you described... And I was stupid and naive. You see... I have come to realize that my affair really was not about me at all... It was all about him. I did not realize that his flattery was not about me... It was about his conquest.

 

I am embarrassed that I allowed myself to be used .. That I chose to be selfish ... That I abandoned the one thing I treasured more than anything... My family.

 

I know that I am capable of being a cheater... Not because I am so beautiful and people can't resist me... But because I am insecure and trusting.. So I have lived my life with strict boundaries... I have lived my life trying to compensate for the flaw in me that allowed myself to become a cheater.

 

Cheaters come in all shapes and sizes... All walks of life... They share one thing in common... They are capable of betraying the one person they vowed to be faithful to.

 

I was a cheater... It is a name I am ashamed of ... And I do my very best to earn the love and respect of my husband.

[bigman1]

I also think the idea of rating trust on a scale is somewhat ridiculous. I mean, how does that translate into practice? Do you just accept 9 things they say as true and then bust their chops on the 10th thing, if you have 90% trust?

 

I guess it sounds like the ws has lost something so it seems like a consequence, but in reality, what happens? They say they're going to the store, does the bs sit at home stomach in knots because of trust? Or, do they say they're going to the store and the bs say, don't go, I don't believe you or show me a receipt when you get home or text me photos 1 out of 10 store trips? Is it a lifetime of that?

 

I'm not trying to be dismissive, but in the end, if life goes on outwardly as it went on pre affair, how does this diminished trust manifest itself in the real world or is it just words but no tangible observable manifestations?

Edited January 23, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[carhill]

So my 2-part question to FWWs is: Do you really expect your BS to ever go back to 100% trust and confidence in your ability not to hurt them again?

We're D'd but no, I wouldn't.

 

And if not, can you content yourself with like 90%?

 

As long as the 90% was sincere and all-in, sure. In other words, I could never retain a relationship where I feel like I'm walking on eggshells. Either we're a team or not. If trust requires some verification, I'm good with that. In my case, my exW met my affair partner and interacted independently. There was no subterfuge, rather open defiance. She could trust that I'd be right in her face because that was my choice.

 

I'd never make a statement such as that in the thread title. I could state that I won't be unfaithful today, or promote infidelity. So far, that's been 2283 days. Today is a new day.

[cocorico]

so he claims that the bad relationship is exclusively to be blamed for HIS cheating? am i getting that right?

 

No.

 

The inauthenticity that was required of him in that R led to him becoming someone he did not recognise - someone who could (and did) become unfaithful. Living inauthenticly led to that - he chose to enter (and remain for so long) in that toxic R, at the cost of his own integrity. He has learned to be sensitive to "authenticity alerts" knowing where they can lead.